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tv   MSNBC Live With Richard Lui  MSNBC  July 27, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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that will do it for this hour of "msnbc live." i'll be back tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. and you can follow me on facebook and twitter. each richard lui live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. the president launches an attack on elijah cummings. he called him a brutal bully and he also called his district a rodent and rat-infested mess. what did the president mean by this? to stop military money being used for the wall, the democrats say the fight isn't over. the heated campaign between joe biden and cory booker is heating up. >> people's records shouldn't be on the attack, and i found his attacks on me ridiculous.
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>> i'm going to start this hour for you with a border and not only supreme court decision from less than 24 hours ago, but also now what has become a bit of a hullabaloo today. the president attacks one of his influential critics, representative elijah cummings, saying cummings is a brutal bully. this is possibly in response to cummings jabbing the president's homeland security chief. you fe >> you feel like you're doing a great job, right? >> i feel like we're doing our level best. >> what does that mean? what does that mean when a child is sitting in their own feces? can't take shower? come on, man. >> despite the president's attacks on cummings, he says cummings' district which includes part of baltimore and its suburbs is worse than the u.s. border.
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he said the border is clean and well-run. he said if he spent more time with baltimore, maybe he could help clean up this filthy place. baltimore does have the second highest murder rate in the country with 309 homicides last year. cummings has half of baltimore with a chunk of the city itself. cummings said, each day i go and fight for my neighbors. critics say this is another example of the president choosing a congress member to attack. >> representative ilhan omar, representative rashida tlaib, representative alexandria ocasio-cortez. so representative ayanna
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presley, they never have anything good to say. so i say if they don't like it, let them leave. >> robert acosta is here along with bozas. robert, what is the president saying here? >> elijah cummings is not only head of the house oversight committee but he is a voice across the agencies. he has been a thorn in the president's side. this is a continuation of the racist tweets we saw from the president weeks ago. we see the president continue to go back to racially charged and racist attacks on his opponents that's really taken us outside the norms of american politics. >> you have to scratch your head here, because you would think in the last couple hours the
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president would say, we've got to win here because the supreme court did not stop the funding that i have earmarked for spending on the wall, and yet doubling down and going after not someone of another age and brand, we're talking about elijah cummings here. >> to me that's a big mistake. if the president wants to make an impression, he should just take the wall and continue on his weekend. we keep weaponizing a lot of these issues in a way that does not move anything forward. i was at a conference and saw people coming together, and yes, political differences everywhere, but they were focused on principles and policies that can lift people. that's where we've got to get to. all this other stuff is a distraction, and sadly, i would just point out, too, often these committee hearings in congress are no longer hearings at all because no one is listening. everybody is just looking for a social media moment and we've taken everything to where we have to weaponize and dehumanize
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in order to score political points, and the american people are exhausted and ex asper ated with that. we have to expect more at every level. >> it certainly has been a busy season. i want to play a second soundbite that we have and that is from alexandria case o'k. >> to say he hasn't been there in a while is atrocious. >> bozas, people are certainly going through difficult times. they say president trump watched this and then reacted to it. >> that statement was idiotic, first of all. whether we're talking about a border wall or another issue, all they do is provide a context and vehicle for the president's racism, nothing more.
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for him to go after elijah cummings and as many congressional members of color in two weeks, whatever, it's an incredible kind of racism, because at the same time he's trying to get a srkasep rocky o prison. he only likes things that entertain him. >> that entertain him. >> that entertain him, it is a trope as old as this country. to me anyone that supports the president that is a person of color, we're going to have problems. you can't stand for a man that continues to do this and denigrate our communities instead of helping, instead of actually providing resources and sf services. he consistently denigrates them and puts the residents of these communities and the good work they're doing against the rest of the country. that's where this is so
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disgraceful to me. >> robert costa, how big a deal is this for president trump. it's been said by david axelrod if president trump doesn't win in 2020, this might be seen as one of those moments. is this one of those moments? >> it's a significant moment, but based on my reporting, it's also notable that congressman cummings early on in the trump administration tried to build a relationship with president trump. he was at the white house numerous times. this is not someone who is totally at odds with president trump at the start. even having spoken with congressman cummings a couple years ago outside the white house chamber, he said he was trying to build a relationship. as we see, any relationship has fallen to the wayside as they've become political combat anants,t it's a sign how it could have gone a different direction. they worked at least a little bit on certain policy issues. and these kinds of attacks, whether on the four minority freshmen of congress at the
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house, or a veteran member of congress like mr. cummings, these could jeopardize the white house's ability to continue to build relationships this fall as they try to go after issues like prescription drug reform. >> boyd, quickly on this, how big of a deal is this? will we forget about this in another week with the president potentially coming up with another statement or another move here? >> i think you're right, richard, and i think this is what the problem in our country is. the more we have a political polarization problem, we have a contempt problem where we dehumanize and weaponize everything. so on the one hand, we probably won't remember this as it continues to mount, but we should. the american people need to look themselves in the mirror and say, what am i sending out to my neighbors, to my community, because this will not be solved by this president, this white house or anyone in washington. this starts in our neighborhoods, our families and our local communities. >> and if i can just add very quickly, what is the message we're sending to young people in this country?
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we're raising people in this country to think and act the way he does. and there is no reason that -- as an adult when he with say don't do it, you can't say that. well, the president does. and that's -- we're creating racism in this country because of him. >> or you're raising awareness of him that which should not be said or done. boyd matheson, robert costa and basil smikle, you're sticking around. what the supreme court ruled on in the last 24 hours, which was the whole back and forth. we have legal analyst and editor in chief, senior fellow at the brookings institution, among other titles, debra pearlstein, attorney and associate professor at cordova school of law. the supreme court did not stop
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the use of that $2.5 billion in pentagon funding to build the border wall that the president wants. it was a 5-4 vote. it lifted a freeze that was imposed by a federal judge in california in may. benjamin wittes, as we look at this decision from the court, what specifically were they saying? i understand it also has to do with those who were lodging the very argument themselves. it was not the right folks that this stopped. >> right. so the actual ruling is focused on whether the plaintiffs who brought the matter have a cause of action to bring it, which doesn't sound like the most sort of satisfying way to address the question of whether the president gets to reprogram military funding for purposes of a border wall, but that's the way the question presented. and so the court, by a 5-4
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ruling, determines that there shouldn't be a stay because the cause of action probably doesn't exist. that's, first of all, a kind of temporary holding measure because they're not really ruling on the merits of the question yet, they're just ruling on whether a stay is in place while the lower courts continue to consider it. but it probably does flag where these five justices are on the question of whether these plaintiffs are going to be able to proceed with this case. >> so, then, debra, if the plaintiffs are not able to proceed with this case, who can step in or what can they do next, i guess, as they now head back to their bunker, if you will? >> right. i want to underscore the limited nature of what the court did here, right, so as ben was just saying, the court lifted a stay that had been in place that a lower court imposed saying, you can't even pick up a shovel and do anything with this limited
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fraction of the amount of money you want to spend until we decide whether the president has the power to do it. what the court did last week is not decide that the president does have the power to use these funds that congress appropriated for a different purpose, all the court did is say, okay, you can start using some of this money now while we determine whether or not the president has the power to act here. its ruling, which is no longer than a paragraph long, a few sentences, is pretty cryptic at best about what the basis of the holding is. indeed, the court says, among other reasons, we think maybe there is a cause of action problem. so i think it's premature at best to assume we know the direction the court is going to go. but even still, this now goes back to the lower courts. it will be back before the supreme court most certainly this fall on the question of does the president have the power, and in the meantime, we're still only talking about a small fraction of the amount of
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money the president wants to use for the border wall. multiple additional lawsuits continue to proceed in the lower courts. >> cindy, what is the latest? what amounts are we talking about? the aclu just reading a portion of their response to that decision saying, quote, we will be asking the federal appeals court to expedite the ongoing appeals proceeding to halt the irreversible and imminent damage from trump's border wall. that's in part here. what is next that you're hearing from the plaintiffs themselves? >> well, i think that this is a strategy in regards to trying to stop the building of the border fence or barrier, wall, whatever it is that you want to call it, as much as you can. it's important to point out, though, that what we're facing right now and when we talk about an immigration crisis at the border, a fence will probably not remedy what's happening
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right now. what we have happening right now are people seeking asylum and really not trying to sneak into the united states. they gave themselves up to u.s. border patrol officials in asking for asylum. so i guess i'm a little confused as to what the administration is trying to do here, because it's really not -- it's really not about people coming here illegally anymore. people are giving themselves up and they're asking for asylum. so it's a different kind of demographic. it's not adults anymore. you have families. so it's a completely different dynamic, and the administration has known this for quite some time and really, from what ik see and from the reporting that i've done, they haven't really addressed that new dynamic, and that's what we're seeing at the u.s.-mexico border right now. >> debra, the federal appeals
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court. what do you see them saying and what they would like to do next? >> the aclu is doing exactly as they should be as counsel for the plaintiffs include the sierra club, et cetera. people worry about the environmental harms on the land they're going to begin construction on. so they're right to seek an expedited appeal, but they're also right to continue to press the merits of their claim which hasn't yet been addressed by any court. they have a really strong argument that, in fact, once congress says we're not going to appropriate the money for this purpose, the president doesn't have the power under the constitution or any act of congress to use money that was proepd for another reason. sdplz cindy, quickly here, how big of a win would it be. how big of a window is this right now? >> i think we have to talk about rhetoric versus facts, right? if you look at what's actually
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happening, if you're looking at -- this is all pafrt one big strategy in regards to -- for him to show that he's tough on illegal immigration, for him to show that he's tough on immigration in general. and the border wall and a fence, it is sort of a win for him, because the rhetoric is there. he's showing his base that he's doing what he can. and i think that even if it doesn't get built, i don't know if his base will necessarily care, because i think that he's so loud about it. the rhetoric is so strong that i think that that appeals to them and that's almost enough. it's more, even, than the facts. >> it is potentially the product that is desired here in this case. benjamin wittes is sticking around with us for the next block. i can't thank cindy carcama and debra enough. thank you for sticking around as
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the house judiciary committee is taking evidence from the report of robert mueller. jerry nadler argues that a grand jury investigation is essential in order to investigate potential crimes by the
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president which could spark impeachment proceedings. >> the committee is exercising its authority to investigate all these scandals and to decide what to do about them, which could include articles of impeachment, and we filed that with the court. >> some say this is nadler's way of moving ahead with impeachment without having to get members on the record with a formal vote here. it also sidesteps a potential impeachment debate going on within the party. after today, and this is after mueller's hearings, 97% of democrats now support an impeachment inquiry. nancy pelosi favors gathering more information from an uncooperative white house. sam is a congressional reporter. sam, what's the latest in terms
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behind impeachment, and number two, when you look at what was actually filed by nadler, is the word impeachment in this filing? >> yeah. so i think something important to note here is that ahead of the mueller hearing, democrats were doing a lot of expectations managing. i talked to house democrats who said they did not expect a whole bunch of their colleagues to come out in favor of impeachment after the former special counsel testified it wasn't going to be this sort of dam-breaking kind of moment. it may have provided some members the moment that they needed to come out there and say mr. mueller laid out in explicit terms that the president had committed impeachable offenses. but the timing of it was something that divided some folks on capitol hill. members two days after, or actually the day after, mr. mueller's hearing went back for a six-week-long august recess. so the question then becomes, if more than seven house democrats are going to come out in favor
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of an impeachment, it's going to be our constituents back home putting pressure on them at town halls and other public appearances to impeachment. we heard them say the reason they came out in favor of impeachment were because their constituents were demanding it. in terms of what was in that court filing, that and jerry nadler's appearance on friday was kind of a rhetorical shift in that it was pretty explicitly laying out the fact that articles of impeachment are laying on the table for the house judiciary committee will do moving forward. they said perhaps that won't be the case but it is an action they are actively considering. >> so are they asking for impeachment? is this impeachmentlike or not impeachment, in terms of the language we saw in the filing? they seem to be playing all
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sorts of the arc of what the english language could mean. >> right. it was in clear sight. perhaps there is a way to describe what house democrats are doing, but that's not a formal term. you had reporters asking chairman nadler if they had, in effect, the gun in the impeachment inquiry. it's reasonable to have questions of exactly how democrats are fueling their effort it's investigation versus worth it. they have to come into terms of what they're doing and settle for a name of it and go from that. >> is this filing by the
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democrats going to be answered in a favorable manner? they're asking for grand jury testimony here. will they get it? there is precedent to this as well. >> there is some doubt as to whether they're going to get it. i think a lot of people off the hill do not think they'll be successful in getting it. a case for impeachment that a lot of people are making in the party. it will literally get all the things they've been asking for. it will add actual power and authority behind the oversight efforts that they're doing and will give them the stronger hand that pelosi says they need. >> stay tuned. "the daily beast." sam brodey, thank you for stopping by. >> absolutely. the other story that came out, election security, or not to support it, shall we say.
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senate majority leader mitch mcconnell slammed down. ben, we could have had you all throughout the show. i know the topic we just talked about is one you talked about in the last 24 hours as well. but let's move on to this very issue of election security. and there have been, shall we say, a lot of criticism related to mitch mcconnell and his decision not to move forward and basically block these particular movements, these bills. the discussion of the bill related to election security. why did the majority leader do that? >> so getting ahead of mitch mcconnell is not something i'm necessarily qualified to do. but, look, this week was a remarkable display in the senate of actually bipartisanship on
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election security in the sense that the senate intelligence committee released this pretty amazing report which had described the results of the 2016 election and a fraction that's chilling. within a day of that, the republican majority is. you see in this very short space of time, both the remains of bipartisanship on an issue like this, and the limits of by. there's a legitimate debate to be had and. the fact that the majority
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leader does not seem to to want propose an alternative or to wo work. yet, bipartisan bill. it says a lot about where he is and what he considers his political objective. >> as you know, the argument from the republican side is let the states and localities handle this, don't give me a federal law behind this. and as we know, all of the election systems are run by states. >> right. so there is a very legitimate set of questions, and i don't want to belittle that set of questions about how interventionist the federal government should be with respect to elections which are, as you say, traditionally a
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province of the states, run by the states, and by the way, by local jurisdictions within the states, counties and cities. so this is not a traditional area of federal competence. on the other hand, protecting the united states from foreign intelligence operations by the russians or by others is very much a federal province. so when you talk about election security, in an area like this, which is an area why foreign operations are attacking the united states, you're talking about a zone of running elections crashes into the defense of the country. there is just no way you can avoid some level of federal involvement in that the question of how you calibrate that and how you integrate those federal authorities, with state authorities, is a very hard one legitimately worth debating and discussion and disagreement. not a good idea to simply shove
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it under the rug in the senate and refuse to deal with it at all. >> tough, not simple does not mean you shouldn't deal with it is what you're saying. ambassador and international affairs analyst joins us. if you were to summarize it, it is paraphrasing, saying we're still being attacked and we're still being attacked by foreign entities here. and then you have the senate majority leader saying we don't need to consider this election security bill saying there's already been money allocated to it. and you heard what ben was saying, that this is falling within the purview of states and localities. >> well, i think the majority leader should seize upon this report. i actually think this gives him a moment and it gives president trump a moment to pivot away from their old arguments. remember, their basic argument, president trump doesn't want to
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admit to election of electoral interference because some of that interference was for his benefit, right? if you read the mueller report, there is a lot of information about how the russians tried to help trump and hurt clinton. what's unique about this report is it doesn't focus on that, it just focuses on election infrastructure, and in frighting deta -- frightening detail and talks about how the russians planned to disrupt election day. they wanted to disrupt what would happen on election day. and that is not in favor of candidate trump. that would have been against american democracy. so i hope that the senate majority leader will reconsider. there is lots of great legislation out there. i was just on the hill earlier last week talking to many people that are sponsoring really sound, nonpartisan things that
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we should do to protect the election on 2020. i hope he seizes the moment. >> ambassador, speak more on that in terms of how the conversations went on the left and right, and for folks watching from home, you're having a technical issue with your connection in california. we're going to keep going here. a bill would be an attempt by foreign authorities, attempts to get into our elections, moving into devices by members of congress as well. what is resonating that is not transferring here up to the leader? >> those are all sensible ideas. i like another one called the deter act. by the way, co-sponsored by senator marco rubio and senator van holland. it says something very simple, that if there is evidence that our elections were tampered with, then we're obligated as a country to put sanctions on those countries. simple as that. by the way, it's not just russians we need to be worrying
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about. what about the iranians. there is no controversy. why would they think the election are about them? there is a chance we could have bipartisan support from simply deterring foreign actors from intervening and enhance the cybersecurity of our american infrastructure. this is an election thing to do, it's not a partisan thing to do. >> we could sit here for a good amount of time and despite the move nationwide. >> thank you very much, ambassad ambassador. >> thank you. you're looking at a live look at elizabeth warren's taow
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hall in new hampshire. yes, there's another debate. n n. yes, there's another debate. maybe you could free zoltar? thanks, lady. taxi! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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i'm going to turn now to the 2020 presidential race. democratic candidates are across the united states today. four candidates in iowa, pete buttigieg, joe sestak just
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announced his candidacy -- why not -- joe biden is ahead of bernie sanders, elizabeth warren and harris. nbc road warrior ali vitale is where senator elizabeth warren is about to speak. what is the issue on the ground that folks want to hear about? >> reporter: i have to warn you that elizabeth warren will be coming on. what i'm seeing from elizabeth warren here in new hampshire over the course of the past few hours because she was at a campaign event just before coming here is she's sharpening her attacks on donald trump in a way i haven't seen from her, really, in several months. so a voter asked her about how she would better unite republicans and democrats, and she really looked to president donald trump as someone who has
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been divisive and has been blaming others and pitting people against each other. that's something she said a would-be president warren would do the exact opposite of. but what she did was in contrast of what voters said they want in their candidates, especially as they take the debate stage. they want people to talk less about trump, less about candidates in washington and more about what they can offer the american people. that also brings attacks on stage less about the party. that's what voters want. >> ali vitale in derry, new hampshire. we'll be back soon, ali. former chief of staff republican senator mike lee. robert, i know you're going to say it's still early. but tell us, what do you think of these latest polls, and we can look at nevada as we still qualify it as a swing state.
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joe biden is losing some steam there. we're in single digits right now. joe biden popular with greater numbers there as well. >> we still see joe biden near the top in every single poll. many of his rivals, their top advisers tell the "washington post" that they see him as a weak frontrunner in their eyes, someone who could be vulnerable in this next d baebate, not on segregation issues but on the entire record, from the crime bill to supporting the iraq convention to president bush's presidency. >> why would he be weak, basil? >> i think exactly for those reasons. he has a long resume, and because it's so long, he has to explain it to people who don't know him and in congress which is something elizabeth warren
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d -- kamala harris did extremely well. joe biden will have to be prepared that any vulnerability will cause a slippage in the polls because democrats look at him as someone who can go head to head with president trump. if he doesn't look to be that kind of candidate, he will start to lose some steam and folks will start to look to someone else. >> the fox news poll, the heads basically leave biden, sanders, warren and harris also, but you're looking at the two top ones looking very strong against president trump. >> go ahead, boyd. >> okay, sorry. i think in those head-to-heads, they're clearly going to have something. but i think basil is on to something that what they do on
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the stage should have nothing to do with president trump. people want to see them head to head. people know they're against the president, against what's going on there in d.c. they need to get to the agenda. what's the agenda to move it forward? the interesting thing with former vice president biden is he looks an awful lot like jeb bush, way out ahead in the money race, way out ahead in the early polls, got beat up in the first debate because he wasn't ready. i think he needs to be more ready and more prepared to paint a vision of what the future looks like. >> you pulled on you the jut th there. would that also be a concern of joe biden that he could come out flat-footed? >> the allies don't really see that comparison because jeb bush was a florida governor. he had a connection with the
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bush family legacy but he was not directly attached in the same way that joe biden was attached to president obama and that administration. they see a comparison not to jeb bush but to h.w. bush. if you want a continuation of president obama, a steady hand, go with vp biden. >> who will you be watching and why? >> i will be watching kamala and cory, because they've been talking about reform. trying to recreate that moment from the other day is going to be really tough. julian castro, i think, is also very interesting. he's on the stage with bill de blasio and this is what i'm interested in because only castro has been very good at talking about the border crisis and policing. he had a moment where he talked about his son who is african-american and mixed race
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and policing, but there is controversy here in new york because he hasn't done anything with respect to the officer, officer pantaleo and eric garner and his death. everybody is going to be ready for each other. >> robert, quick, ten seconds. which one are you watching? >> mike bullock, his first time on the stage. >> boyd, quickly, which one are you watching? >> i think criminal reform will take place. his teaming with basil was a good deal. >> basil says he's watching all of them. robert costa, boyd matheson and
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sales, cool sneakers, low priced, yes, but there's a cost. workers in malaysia forced to pay off large debts because they owe agents in part to get these very apparel jobs n. malaysia, for instance, they pay large agent fees just to get there to be able to work. sometimes over $4,000 where the average monthly wage is $500. that can mean months of free labor and a contract you can't get out of or face. companies like nike, asiks, fruit of the loom and more. which means you might be wearing a product made by slave labor right now. the nonprofit identifies crimes like forced labor, insupply chains, the very way these pieces of clothing make it to you, it tells the big brands, hey, there's a problem at this
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factory. if the company still buys from that bad factory, if the company stops buying, if the company tells a factory to change, all of that, transparentem reports. nike and brooks sports got back to us but did not want to discuss the report. joining us now is the ceo of transparentem, ben skinner. ben, it only took three years. that's a lot of data but you're a data guy. when we look at this very issue of what some people call slaves or child laborers, poison workers even, do their hands when we look at this, do they actually make the clothing that we wear? >> thanks, richard. yes is the short answer. the longer answer is, yes, but it's complicated and it's hidden, which is why we do what we do. we are fundamentally
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independent. we're supported by the general public and foundations. we look where the worsting problems are to dig deep to build out these investigations. as you say, to go to the granbr give them a choice, either understand what we're presenting to them, which is comprehensively vetted, rigorously reported, and act on it, or don't, one way or the other, we talk to their investigator investors, the general public. >> it's not light reading. you gave this to the brands. many of them responded, many of them said we're going to do something about this. >> yeah. it was tremendously encouraging. you know, one of the things that we feature is a video product that we bring in front of the c suites of these brands. that features the workers speaking in their observe voices. these workers in some cases have had their lives completely ripped apart by traffickers who
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have put them into debt bondage. they're working in humiliating conditions, living in deplorable conditions, and, in many cases, they are -- they can't walk away from their work without terrible consequences to them or their families. several of these brands stepped up and did the right thing. and i think that's what's incredibly important and exciting about this model, is that brands that control the spend can also control the solution. >> we can make decisions as consumers based on these sorts of reports that you are putting out. -to-make better choices ourselves. underline for me, could i be wearing something right now or day to day that is related to somebody who is in this very situation, a worker under very bad conditions? >> the sad reality is yes. the even sadder reality is yes, and it's quite likely. the tough, difficult part of
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this is that it may not be a direct manufacturer. it may be in child slaves that are picking the cotton. it may be in textile mills. >> right. >> and so it's incredibly important for all of us to ask questions of the companies that we buy from. >> things are getting better or worse when it comes to this forced labor, over 20 million people worldwide? >> i have to tell you, i'm extremely excited by what i've seen in the last year of engagement with these brands, and i think there's a model for the future. >> fantastic to have you, ben skinner, ceo of transparentem. we'll be right back. (avo) life doesn't give you many second chances. but a subaru can. (dad) you guys ok? you alright? wow.
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that wraps it up for me. i'm richard lui. i'll see you this hour at 4:00 eastern. now i turn it to reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lead, easy target. i woke up this morning thinking about tonight's show, how legitimately surprised i was that this week where president donald trump dodged any new bullets from robert mueller. the campaigner in chief had not
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