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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  August 23, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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>> that's all we have for tonight. i was getting a quick update. are the talks still on or off with china? it's something we're still trying to figure out from the white house. we'll be back monday with more "meet the press daily." if it's sunday, hopefully we have that question about meetings with china. we'll have "meet the press" on nbc. the beat starts right now. >> chuck, good evening. do you have time for a quick joke? >> sure. okay. >> you are hereby ordered to have great weekend. >> i appreciate that. i have to say, i will -- if you add the year by, it does make it officials. >> i learn as i go. the 6:00 hour, the hour of ari. >> amen. have great weekend for real. chuck todd, always great to see
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you. it didn't make sense, i'll explain. it doesn't get funnier but it will explain something the president is up to. as for what's going on, this impeachment caucus is actually growing. we have the newest member on the beat. also donald trump in the downward spiral. and now shaking. plummeting, him lashing out at china and the own fed chief. a serious story with hereby elements. and it was featured parentally with a shoutout on netflix show. we'll explain. we begin tonight with the steadily growing calls as i mentioned from house democrats demanding for real accountability for what they say are crimes by the president of the united states. for obstruction of justice. 132 democrats in the house now are backing impeachment proceedings against trump. now let's be clear about what happened. a lot of other things have been happening. but take it together and now as the summer draws to a close, you have more than 55% of the entire
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caucus backing impeachment probes. nadler is investigating trum top see what they've uncovered as the committee tries to decide whether they actually filed the formal articles of impeachment. if you know and watch the news, i think you know, the support for this has grown slowly. and in the times since he testified a month ago, it's now 39 more members of congress. publicly coming out for impeachment. and that includes counting seven just this week. >> we have to finish the work that mueller didn't. >> let me start by saying. this no one, no person is above the law. that includes the president of the united states. and zbl i >> i'm announcing my support for
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formally launch impeachment proceedings against donald trump. >> the impeachment inquiry has already begun. and i support that investigation. >> i believe we should begin impeachment inquiry. >> all of that plus the fourth ranking house democrat coming out this week as well. that basically the top people who actually is on pelosi's team. she is still opposed. this week she was facing protesters at an event honoring her about this in san francisco. >> i need you to leave from my community! >> i am undocumented. >> the reward ceremony is interrupted with people holding impeach now signs. >> impeach now! impeach now! >> police escorted shouting protesters out of the room. >> this is part of what democracy looks like. i'll be joined by one of the members that just came out for
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impeachment. we begin on the law with maia wiley and a former prosecutor. good to see both of you. viewers would be forgiven for questioning why now? what's going on? shouldn't the democrats have come out earlier? and, yet, john, whatever the timing is, i think in congress as well as in life, substance still can matter a lot more than timing. and they are showing up. what does that say to you? >> i think it tells us that trump will be impeached. i think it's a question now of when. pelosi notwithstanding. i think the combination of the five committees pulling together their resources, not just for the legal reasons but to make sure they have the strongest amount of evidence to go forward with that so they can sell it to the public. i think if they have decent witnesses on september 17th, we'll see another bump like we did with the mueller appearance. or the judiciary committee. >> yeah. i certainly agree with john. this really is a bump.
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the public is being given more information as opposed to william barr's spin on what the mueller report said. let's be honest. the way barr's spun was successful. i think also that democrats, remember, these are democratic representatives coming out in favor. the principles here are if not this president then what president? what president crosses constitutional boundaries and demonstrates that they are not upholding the laws of the land? and they have in this case a substantial body of evidence that is raising clear questions around counter intelligence even. remember, when we're talking about impeachment proceedings, we're not talking about criminal
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proceedings. we're talking about a removal from office not going to jail. >> yeah. you make that point, maia. john, this also really revolves around how ideas get formalized in washington. that is a very odd process. al green is pushing this. he is a critic of trump. he doesn't deserve the office and should be removed notwithstanding the other obstruction analysis. he was already out there with the super pro impeachment or more pro or whatever. he is leading this and rest of the party is coming along. take a look at congressman green. >> things start with a spark. and sometimes the spark is ignored. other times the spark can cause others to become consumed with the righteousness of a cause and participate in the cause itself.
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>> john flannery, do you agree with that analysis? is it time to parra phrase mr. green? it is time to spark one up here? >> some of the greatest speeches that we've had including bobby kennedy's parallel to that about drifts of water becoming a wave that can't be resisted. in politics, the instruction is often that the shortest distance between two points is almost never straight line in politics. but what we've seen is exactly this reaction. and some time ago you asked me will the truth win out? this is an example of the truth willing out. the accumulation of the public and the town meetings after mueller's pronouncements and, of course, the number of members that are now shifting within the caucus and pelosi is looking like the odd person out. i don't know how she comes back to lead this. >> that's what you really put your finger on, maia. you advised, you know, the mayor deplaz y diblasio who is also running for
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president and this is a question of how democrats hash this stuff out. take a lonconor lamb who won in trump district. it was trump country. this was a question about where do those folks come in? and they're having this public debate too. here is lahm in unwith of the town halls. take a look. >> what i'm asking you is whether you will join with your is 27 colleagues in the house of representatives and support an impeachment inquiry, one that is already going on. it's happening. we need to make a judgement at the time. it is an extremely high bar. >> that's what this telooks lik. do you call that a trump district because trump won it in the past?
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or do democrats start to look at that as a blue district because mr. lahm won it and also facing a different pressure which have you going to step up? >> you know, this is exactly the position that democrats are facing politically. i think one of the things that is so important about representative underwood coming forward a few days ago and saying she is going to conspiracy the inquiry because she is also representing one of those districts, trump won traditional republican district. i think she unfeed aseeded a fom republican. a similar situation. six term republican. he also came out in favor of the inquiry. i think part of what they're doing here is saying we know that they have to be democrats because we were elected as democrats. although we have these very complicated districts. but part of it is because our constituents have to be served by leadership. and sometimes leading means doing the right thing. and using your leadership to explain to your constituents why
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you think it's right. >> and build support for that. >> build support. >> stay with me. i'm going to bring in california congressman mark tacano who just announced support for impeachment proceedings. thanks for coming on "the beat" tonight. >> my pleasure. >> did you reach this position because you think president trump committed a crime? >> i did reach this decision. i struggled with this. i kept coming back to the obstruction of justice. being a very serious crime. and that i could not give them a pass on obstructing justice. and that no person is above the law, especially -- not especially, but even, even the person who holds the highest office in the land. >> so you who knows what will
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happen. but you think that the house should do that. your speaker, pelosi, has said she also thinks he committed crimes. he should be -- she even said report lid according to "the washington post," he should be jailed. is there something here where you and she agree on that but disagree on going forward and how do you see this going? do you want to convince her otherwise? >> look, this is not a matter of my, substituting my judgement for speaker pelosi's. i have a tremendous amount of respect for speaker pelosi. this is about me representing my district. this is about my neighbors, my voters, and, you know, being back in the district has been an opportunity for me to get in
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touch with where -- to take a pulse on where people are. i think the two are merging. that they're telling me they want. and i am very -- i'm come around to feeling and believing that, you know, the heart of the matter is that the mueller report did not exonerate president trump. it laid out very, very serious evidence about the president's interference with an investigation. it was not a trivial investigation. it was not about private conduct. it was about russian interference in our elections
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and elections are the foundation of our democracy. he must be held act accountable. i go back to when i was a 13-year-old boy. i watched gavel to gavel the hearings, the impeachment hearings led by peter rodino and showcase the hearings was a new member of congress barbara jordan of houston, texas. she actually inspired me to think about a future in politics. it was so important for me and my minority 13-year-old boy whose grandfather sat behind me. he sat behind me smoking his pipe, reading his japanese pulp fiction. and, you know, he had lost his wife's property during world war
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ii. and there are five green houses in bellview, washington, where a casualty of that great injustice. so the constitution was whole. it was complete. and she really captured my imagination and at stake here was a lesson. a civics lesson for all 13-year-olds, 12-year-olds. i just got an e-mail from someone who congratulated me for coming out and taking the stand. she watched -- she was 10 years old when she watched the hearings. so at stake today is a lesson for all young people that no person is above the law. obstruction of justice is a serious crime. especially when it's about obstructing a -- an investigation of great national import. >> that's what's interesting to hear you really lay it out and
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give us your thought process as americans are wondering whether this is over or not. that is the decision maker for the floor of the house. congressman tacano, thank you so much, john flannery, thank you. maia wiley is here with me in new york. i did want toget you encory lodowski. if you listen to the d.c. day trading, there is a lot of criticism. it was, i think, if we want to report it accurately, it was jarring. bob mueller did look older and precise and made it clear that he was not going to play a lot of ball. he wantrpd them from the start. you have dozens more joining this. and then you're going to come back in september and lewandowski is going to be questioned under oath about things that mueller said were substantial evidence of obstruction. do you think that will matter? >> it's going to matter tremendously. i think the piece that has been
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missing for the american public is exactly what these witnesses said to robert mueller because the report is so dense and because mueller was going to stick to read my report. i say mistake because it's a difficult decision and position to be in. it's not forcing witnesses to testify publicly. because the issue here and an inquiry is not just what the congress members know, it's what the american public knows. >> right. >> very interesting. thank you as well. i want to button up that last point. we're going to do a quick 30-second break. then i'll be right back on trump's melt down on the economy. s melt down on the economy. this was me six years ago...
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here are two words you don't hear when republicans talk about american companies. hereby ordered. president trump claiming he is hereby ordering u.s. companies that can do anything they want under our laws to stop business with china because the president of the united states said so. the same president whose company does business with china wanting to order the companies around all of this is because he is getting punked by china getting slapped with tariffs that made the markets nervous. trump also throwing his own hand picked fed chief under the bus right now. he is asking who the bigger enemy is. his fed chair who he appointed or the leader of china. well, that chair, powell, says trump's trade and tariffs might affect the economy and might affect the slowdown. i want to turn to all of this with former executive director of the new york state democratic party and political strategist and director of progressive programming for sirius/xm.
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nice to see you both. >> what do you think on the politics here? people think donald trump's done two things for the economy since he came into osts. tax cut for the wealthy and trade war with china. >> right. >> it seems that even trump is worried about how the trade war is going. >> absolutely. because he was at a period of time taking credit for obama era policies. he owns. this we're talking about it. the fact is he's been so boastful about the tariffs and the sanction to sanctions and what have you that have caused pain for small businesses and caused real pain for pafarmers. i remember bill clinton saying the united states is only 4% of the world population. there is only so much we can make and sell to each other. think about that today where the a spokesman for the national retail association said 95% of the consumers live outside our
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borders. so what the president is doing is shutting down markets for our businesses and that is something that presidents do not do. so all of the blame is going to be squarely on his shoulders. >> right. and this is where facts can matter. you say america first. you say we're going clean up this or that or drain the swamp. those are slogans. people in both parties use slogans. then you go what does this actually mean? is america first? is it helping america if the markets are down, economy is in jitters, and companies in america often run by conservatives, by the way, if you look at the donation records, are saying, yeah, we need to do this. and he's now trying to order companies around like this is left wing imagination. >> it's really bizarre time. you have the president who is essentially ran on a lie that he was a successful businessman. and we, i don't know if we ignored the fact that he filed for bankruptcy many times or
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that he seemed to run manufacturer the business that's he was running into the ground. we ignored that. and we thought that he would be good on the economy. and as he said, he inherited the uptick that obama worked so hard to get. >> can i say something? >> sure. >> to be fair to donald trump, i know that is not popular, but he has a lot of experience inheriting other people's -- >> that he does. >> that is a fact. i think that the con is going to be revealed. i think that he is going to slinl trying to brainwash his supporters and it may work. it worked to this point. the economy is fine. even if the economic indicators continue to freak investors out and to indicate that there is a looming recession. so i think that, you know, i think that fact that he lies about everything is going to catch up with him eventually. because again, we're talking about such a small margin of victory. so there are enough americans that are going to be able to see through that propaganda. >> this is what is different about the economy to other
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issues. people who follow this closely can say, well, trucdonald trump wrong about a lot of things. not everyone is going to catch up with the fact check. to your point in "washington post," we have this reporting about the shadow following the economy. and it says trump is telling his own aides he thinks he can convince americans the economy is vibrant with a public messaging campaign. seven nervous, everyone. which shows he's aware of the problem. he wants to smooth it over. isn't it different if people actually can see that their 401(k) is smaller. >> it's incumbent for democrats to think about. this i thought cory booker had some good language around this. if you do this riff off the old reagan you are better off now than you were four years snag there is a rough of that you can do which is what have you lost since donald trump has been president? and people will say had401(k).
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they will talk about affordability broadly. they can't afford things. even if you get back money in this payroll tax which his economic adviser larry kudlow said during the obama administration it didn't work but they'r they're talking abou now. what can you afford even with this money back? the answer is not a lot. particularly if you look at what is happening in michigan and the u.s. steel laid off about 200 workers. so when you start to hear things like that happening over and over again, you start to point fingers at someone and i think it's incumbent upon them, i believe strongly that they will do this. find a way to focus that message on donald trump. >> this goes to something larger. i want to play sound from one of trump's trade advisors backing off. i don't know how you feel. i notice that sometimes there can be a difference between talking about fighting and actually fighting. i don't know if you ever heard the expression hold me back. >> i have heard that. >> you have heard that?
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>> yes. >> and sometimes people say hold me back quite honestly which is, i want to engage in the appearance of wanting to fight. but please hold me back. i don't want to fight. i relate to. that i don't want to fight. >> i don't want to fight. >> but donald trump claims to want to do a lot of fighting. he claimed to want to do a lot of war. with all of the implications of economic war, trade war, china, china, china, and this is new and i want our viewers to see it, there is a crack in his own people are saying, no, that's not a trade war as it starts to cost money. take a look. >> this is not trade war. trade war is when two countries are fighting forever lowering their tariffs. what we're fighting about with china is to have them stop stealing our property, taking our technology, dumping products into our markets, manipulating the currency and having the state owned enterprises run rampant around the world. >> that's not fair. >> that's a trump adviser, navarro.
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he is saying it's not a trade war. are we in the hold me back phase? >> yes. i think that's where we are. but you remember that donald trump said don't believe what you see and what you hear. so i think that we have to remember that he said that. i think he meant that. you know, he says a lot of things. this he meant. when you were talking about loss, i thought i lost my sanity the last few years. because of just the chaos and the lack of organization in terms of just being able to govern the country. making consumers and american voters feel comfortable he has everything taken care of. that he is governing the country in a methodical way and thinking through policy decisions. he's not doing any of. that part of the problem is he can see the chaos because we see the tweets. >> to your point, there is the politics of people saying what they think of him. but we're in a different place now. the markets are looking at him. >> exactly. >> he is sake i got. this the markets are saying, no, you don't. >> right. that's the problem. now you're dealing with people's pocketbooks, retirements, ability to take care of their
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families. i think that those folks in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan, they should be thinking long and hard about whether or not they're going to support this president again or go with somebody different. he is not followed through on his economic promises. >> thank you both. always great seeing you. up ahead, donald trump going to this global summit with world leaders and still picking fights with nato allies. trump's immigration chief is claiming the new detention rule is for children's protection. later, what sor"orange is t new black" has to do about this. i have a special guest coming up. this. i have a special guest coming up are a never-ending montage of comfort. [where have you been all my life?] namaste? namaste right here on the couch. but then, anne laid on a serta perfect sleeper. and realized her life was only just... sorta comfortable. where have you been all my life? not just sorta comfortable.
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trump's immigration agenda has fled to some very interesting problems. consider the diagram that we're in right now. legal advice and this was a few weeks ago. there was an episode of "orange is in the new black" and talks about inmates talking about an actual thing that exists in the world. a help line offered by a group giving legal advice to immigrants. >> on this line, it is called freedom for imfwrants. they want to help people in here. >> i called them. i told them all about you. >> how cute and fly you are and you could be the next kylie jenner and they have to save you. they have this number to call so you can get a lawyer. a free lawyer to come talk to you. >> but you have to be careful though. okay? apparently they figure out that
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you're using the hotline, the brother shuts it down. >> before they shut it down and, well, that's what they were talking about in the show. but tonight many people say unfortunately we have life imitating art. we have a warning from a show that is pressing it because within two weeks after that episode aired, i.c.e. got this help line shut down and telling the group with that number since 2013 that it would need special approval to do so. i'm joined by kristina fialo, co-founder and executive director for the group behind the help line. thank you for being here. >> thank you, good evening. >> good evening to you. it's a little bit of an odd story. so first of all, walk us through what this means, what has happened here? >> so freedom for immigrants is a national nonprofit that visits and monitors immigration detention facilities across the country. we have been running this national detention hotline since 2013 offering people and
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immigration detention a free connection to the outside world to outside resource as that they don't have inside. but since our involvement in orange is the new black, ice completely shut down our hotline nationwide. >> how does that work? if someone is watching saying how do they have that call? >> so we have been working with the producers and writers of "orange is in the new black" and we've taken them on visits to detention facilities. as you mentioned, freedom for immigrants and our national hotline was featured in this season of "orange is the new black." and within two weeks of the premier, the hotline was completely shut down. i.c.e. blocked it. each of the detention facilities. and i -- >> what i'm getting at is this is their authority over these facilities is what allows them to basically short circuit this? >> correct. i.c.e. has a contract with a company and it allows for high
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priced phone calls for people in immigration detention. but we had a hotline offered to us for free and this allowed us to ensure that people in immigration detention had a connection to the outside world. now other organizations have similar four digit extension that's ice provided them. that includes the american bar association, the unhcr, various other nonprofits providing support to people in immigration detention. ice has singled us out by shutting down just our hotline which we believe and know is a response to our work on "orange is the new black." let's remember, ice's decision to shut down our hotline isn't just an attack on people in immigration detention. it's an attack on our rights to free speech and transparent government. and we're demanding that ice restore our hotline or we will see them in court. >> very interesting to see that you put it that way and that you're prepared to go to court about it. it really touches on something larger than the hotline. although, i know you're behind
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it and important which is something we've been discussing throughout the stories which is the human rights that people have, even if they're undocumented and legal status is in the air, what legal rights they have under the u.s. constitution, under the way our laws are supposed to work. and this i think puts a spotlight on that. kristina, very interesting to learn all that from you. thank you for being on the show. >> thank you so much. >> absolutely. appreciate it. we'll fit in a break. ahead, there is this mueller case against roger stone and they're planning to play the godfather at trial. we'll get into that. and the g-7 summit in france. and, of course, "fallback," all that coming up. of course, "fal that cinomg up
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tonight we head to the g-7 summit in france. they're bracing for his arrival after picking fights with nato allies and the past year's
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debacles on world stage. >> he is causing major drama with some of the united states' closest allies. the tirade against the canadian prime minister, to say to the guy who leads the nation, one of our allies, australia, this is the most unpleasant call all day, he called trudeau weak. >> if japan is tackattacked, we fight world war 3. if we're not attacked, japan can watch it on a sony television. >> president trump shows his way to the front of the line. >> pushing aside the leader to get into the front there. >> germany is totally controlled by russia. germany is the captain of russia. >> he took two starbursts out and said don't say i never gave you anything. >> we work with our allies. we take care of our allies. >> i don't say i never give you
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anything. i forgot that starburst story. donald trump enters this summit after a lot more of that kind of stuff. some of it petty, some of it honestly funny and some deadly serious. we have the aides telling reporters parentally because they want somebody to know that they're worried about the erratic behavior. the flip-flops, policy shifts, that's -- head scratching statements, it's all a lot and adding up. consider someone who has covered the stories very closely and spent time out in the country including around the crowds. former fox news reporter carl cameron. he writes that trump has had an absolutely awful august, noting his use of racist, anti-semitic, sexist rhetoric to bully a member of congress or to bully an entire foreign country. guess who's here? campaign carl. good evening, sir. >> hi, ari, good to see you. >> good to see you. i know you like to call them like you see them. some viewers may be surprised to hear someone who has been as i mentioned throughout covering
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this stuff for fox news. see this is blinking red for donald trump, what do you see as the problems here? >> there are just so many. you don't have enough time in the day to make that list. but this particular august has been a particularly pointed one. when trump's congress, when the republicans and the grademocrat left washington, d.c., the talk of impeachment faded away. we had a bunch of horrible things. when he two very, very serious shooting massacres. we need strong background checks. this is not first time that he made that sort statement. completely reversed himself. it amounts to hostile takeover attempt and it's essentially making an enemy of denmark which makes no sense at all. while the president is over at the g-7. he has been advocating for the
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last week that we get back to the g-8. and they were remosmoved from t8 because of the stuff they're doing to the press and free world. the press is supporting that. it's got pint where thank goodness august is soon to be over and congress comes back to washington. you don't usually hear political reporters say that sort of thing. but this time around it will resume the conversation that is really most important other than the election and that was -- that is whether or not they're going to impeach the president for the obstruction of justice. >> you lay it all out. you're used to covering more than one thing. that's what we do. the long term post mueller period is a pattern. it's a pattern that moved from a minority of house democrats supporting impeachment to now a majority. and pelosi is covering that earlier in the show. then you have the backdrop of donald trump. how does he act in this period? does he feel unbridled even facing that and these economic
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jitters? and i don't know what you want to call them, take a look from this week at some of the things he's been up to. >> any jewish people that vote for a democrat, i think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty. >> isn't that anti-semitic? >> no, it's only in your head. >> so we're talking about indexing. >> i'm not looking to do indexing. >> i've been thinking about payroll taxes for a long time. >> i'm not looking at a tax cut now. dwoe we don't need it. we'll by up background checks like we never had before. >> we very, very strong back ground checks now. >> it was an absurd idea. it was nasty. you don't talk to the united states that way. at least under me. excuse me, some had been to do it. i am the chosen one. >> how does that play out in the world you've been in and fox news folks some of whom still
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defend every one of those thing wez just saw. >> i think there are evangelical conservatives that will have a problem with a human being calling himself the chosen one. but let's take a look at the kind of things that he is actually threatening to do in the course of this august without congress around. he has threatened birthright citizenship saying he's going take on the constitution and the fourth amendment and say those who are born in this country will no longer be american citizens. or at least he's going to try it again. these are in the new things. everything we've been talking about are reruns, repeats of the kind of lies and the kind of very unstable thinking and speaking that the president of the united states does. and we have to think about our national reputation worldwide now with the president at the g-7 meeting in france how the rest of the world is looking at the u.s. we like to think of ourselves as world leaders. the president is not leading. so what are we? the united states of america's reputation is at stake because the president is being
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irresponsible and violating our values and our traditions. >> you lay it all out there straight up. some of it sounds pretty concerning. carl cameron, thank you for joining "the beat" tonight. >> thank you. >> we're going to fwit it in a break. we're going to show you some of the most embarrassing tape on donald trump maybe ever when we come back. n donald trump maybe ever when we me back. announcer: fidelity is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. and zero minimums to open an account. at fidelity those zeros really add up. ♪ maybe i'll win ♪ saved by zero great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar?
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all right. we're turning back to donald trump claiming he could order companies to stop doing business with china. in fact, today he said he "hereby orders it." we've been discussing that a little bit. he doesn't have that power and we have different question. it's not the one he wants everyone focused on. it's something he would rather you didn't see and we're about to show it to you. remember this? >> he has a stance on china which is a country that is just ripping our heart out. i mean we just do nothing to protect ourselves. >> these are beautiful ties. >> they are great ties. >> the ties are made in where, china? the ties are made in china. >> rarely do you see donald trump caught without something to say. silence. to paraphrase springstien, you conditioned tie the ties that bind. he never applied to bother that to his own company. when we come back, a very special fallback friday with the great chris francato.
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>> joining me now is television writer, producer chris brancato. he's written episodes of hit shows you know like beverly hills 90210 and law and order. he produced the netflix series narcos. he's co creator for a show getting buzz, the upcoming godfaurlt of harm premiering on
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e fx in september, and we're joined by michael eric dyson who has written 20 books on civil rights leaders and great artists like nas and tupac, and his latest book hits close to home here on "the beat," jay-z. describing the music, the hustle, and the creativity. he's currently a professor of sociology at georgetown university. great to see you both. let's get into it. what's on your fallback list? >> people are online telling me that scarface is better than either godfather and certainly better than godfather i, and i'm ballistic about the fallback with that noise. >> the scarface fans. >> i love you. say hello to my little friend. that's good. pacino with the second rate latinix accent, no disrespect to the don, but are you serious? you're going to put it above -- i don't want to to see him like
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this. you spend time with your family because a man who never spends time with his family can never be a man. come on, he's dropping more wisdom than aristotle, more science than einstein. marlon brando, the history of immigration, the politics and crime of american culture. fallback with that. >> you're in this field. do you go scarface or godfather? >> i would choose godfather of course, but you have to make a classic distinction. godfather on the one hand, goodfellas on the other. goodfellas, highly journalisting, realistic depiction of the mob. godfather, hyperreal based on codes of honor that don't actually exist. a mythologized view. >> what's on your fallback list? >> robocalls. if there's anything that will insight me to murder faster than having my car stolen or house broken into, it's getting a call 16 times a day.
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my favorite, of course, is the one that tells me i have four felony warrants in ohio. >> the irs. >> i get some in a foreign language. >> do you? >> i got one. i did. i was like, i'm global now. >> it's oaudio spam. on my fallback list is scientists telling us this whole thing might be a simulation. and this is real scientists in real news. here's some articles. pointing out why, quote, we might be living in a computer simulation. and then another one says are we living in a computer simulation, let's not find out. this is by a scholar who says if our universe has been created by an advanced civilization for research purposes, it's crucial that we don't find out. if you knee we did live inside a simulation, this could cause our creators, our sort of future generations that are studying us as primitive ancestors to terminate this simulation, to destroy our world. >> wow.
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red pill, blue pill. >> i know you're a deep thinker. is it possible that this is all a simulation? and if so, and determining that truth risk ending it, would you rather not know? >> of course, i would rather not know. here's the interesting part about that. tr to project the possibility this is a simulation is quite interesting, and how do we know? it's like logical positivism. you know, don't believe anything, right? when you talk about it. only things you can scrutinize and see that are certainly true without a kind of variability can be proved to be true, but how do you know that statement is true? you keep backing yourself up. >> zero to ten, the likelihood this is a thing. this is in real newspapers, real scientists talking about it, but it sounds fanciful. i can imagine viewers saying what are we even talking about. zero to ten. >> i would say five.
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>> i would say five because it's anyone's guess as to whether what we're sitting in is reality or not. >> five seems high. >> to you? >> yeah. >> reality is in the eye of the beholder. >> yeah, and he'll be holding it. >> who will be holding it? where are you going? >> who be holding it determines how we see it. >> are you suggesting perhaps focusing on whether this is potentially a computer simulation is a kind of a high-class problem? >> you know what. people who are on the front line who have to get up every day tend to try to survive. those who are the luxury of misery and cynicism tend to consult other forms of extraterrestrial engagement to explain the misery we got. some of us just get some ripple and weed and figure out what we can do. i mean weed whacker. young people, do not get marijuana. the reality is i think it is the kind of -- the kind of fanciful engagement, the fantasmagoria of
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those on the end. whether this is, real or not, i have to pay my bills. >> amen. i don't know about the simulations, but if they do get up on this cloning, i hope we can clone the professor and we'll clone some of your work, and we'll keep an eye on where all the godfathers past, present, and future are headed. my special thanks to chris brancato and michael eric dyson. >> you know what's not a simulation? "hardball," next. trader don. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. president trump is roiling financial markets today around the world, escalating his trade war with china and attacking the chair of the federal reserve. all this as he heads off to herald the strengths of the u.s.

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