tv Up With David Gura MSNBC September 22, 2019 5:00am-7:00am PDT
msnbc. i'm phillip mena. now it is time for "up" with david gura. this is "up". i'm david gura on a sunday morning when elizabeth warren tops a major poll in iowa for the first time. the massachusetts senator has pulled ahead of former vice president biden and senator bernie sanders who is traveling today to oklahoma for an event in senator warren's hometown. this morning, more new data will bring in results from the latest survey from nbc and the wall street journal. in washington and on the campaign trail, the whistle-blower story continuing
to develop this weekend. in a phone call back in july, president trump calling on ukraine's president to investigate joe biden's son. now joe biden wants an investigation into the president's phone call. and as president trump prepares to travel to new york for the general assembly, jay inslee will join us. professor of political science the fordham university, and fellow at new american and katie, legal contributor to msnbc. also joining us from london, nbc news intelligence and national security correspondent ken delaney. new details emerging overnight. "new york times" reporting the genesis of that whistle-blower's complaint has to do with the desire by president trump to do damage to joe biden's campaign. well, in iowa the former vice president addressed the complaint in what's been reported over this last week.
>> the house should investigate. the house should investigate this. this appears to be an overwhelming abuse of power. to get on the phone with a foreign leader who is looking for help from the united states and ask about me and imply things -- if that's what happens. it appears to be that happened. this is outrageous. you have never seen anything like this from any president. >> in an interview with nbc news, rudy giuliani addressed his involvement in all of this. i never mentioned hunter biden solely, he says. he asked to investigate broader corruption allegations, which include vice president's son. i didn't go there to get biden investigated but it was to urge the government in the interest of my client, the president of the united states, to investigate all these facts. "and the foreign minister, the heart of the story, a call that
took place july 25th, one day after robert mueller, the now former special counsel, testified on capitol hill. from that statement, there was no pressure. we are an independent country. we have our own secrets. this conversation was long and friendly. it dealt with many issues, to which sometimes it was necessary to have fairly serious answers." chew on that a moment. >> we're in a very interesting hinge point, david. because on the one hand, you have the democrats really amping up the rhetoric on this. and they were assuming facts not in evidence. and i think we in the media need to be careful not to overplay this. we don't know exactly what president trump said to the ukrainian president in that phone call. in fact, there were some sources talking to us on friday in the white house and justice department, who were suggesting they hope the transcript comes
out because they view it as ex culp tore, helpful to the president. that said, it would be a huge deal if trump went anywhere close to the idea of dangling military assistance or the withdraw of military assistance in exchange for something that would help his election campaign. now, a lot is going to depend on exactly what he said in these conversations. if they were generically asking to investigate corruption, that would be one thing. if he specific live mentioned hunter biden or joe biden, that would be another thing. what we know, david, an intense community, intelligence officer was upset enough about this to have filed a secret whistle brother complaint. again, we don't know if there were other factors that went into the whistle-blower complaint. but then the inspector germ of the intelligence community read that complaint and thought it was significant and urgent and needed to be passed on to
congress. and so far that hasn't happened. that's where we stand now. the director of national intelligence has to go and explain why he is withholding the complaint at the urging of the justice department. >> katie, back to the timetable, this phone call between the president and the president of ukraine. >> july 25th. >> what do you make of that, bearing in mind what ken said. >> i value circumstantial evidence just as much as i value direct evidence as a prosecutor in a criminal case or a lawyer in a civil case. circumstantial evidence would be the following. there are cookie chums all over christina's face. where is the missing cookie? suddenly there's $250 million given to the ukraine after a series of conversations. remember we do know it is not based on this one july 25th call. we know definitively it's not just one event. a series of communications have given rise to this. in the controllingology of
events that are factually suggestive there was some type of extortion, bribery, conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws. there's a $140 million bonus. that is $390 million given to the ukraine after there was pressure obviously it was because the whistle-blower came forward and said, huh huh, red flag. something went wrong here. if there was something ex cup tore, why not let people know what the facts are. >> christina, you look at the consternation surrounding all on this, 137 democrats on the record saying they favor the beginning of impeachment proceedings. this adds new grist to that. you look at the piece in the "washington post". a number of lawmakers expressing their displeasure with democratic leadership. eric swalwell says he just
overwhelming us. steve cohen saying we back off everything. we've been very weak. speak to this as a crystallizing moment. >> the factions within the democrats are sort of calcifying in so many ways. some democrats who represent areas of the nation and populations that don't want impeachment. they want to talk about economics. they want to talk about health care. they think impeachment is a distraction. there are other leaders in the democratic party who say our democracy is at stake. each day we see the onslaught of the weakening of the separation of powers. as the framers laid out, we have to have checks and balances. so i wasn't concerned when donald trump first got into office because i've read the constitution. we understand that the framers really took great care to think about all the ways we could protect ourselves as a democracy. the problem is we have too many members of congress in the republican party who are working
for the president and not necessarily the american people. we are also seeing this in the justice department. all these trap doors laid out for us are weakened. this is highly concerning to so many people. it seems as though every day the democrats are running around saying the sky is falling, the sky is falling, everything is on fire. because in many ways it is. we cannot call ukraine and ask them or insinuate or pressure them to interfere in anything in our deposit, especially our elections. and we know that it did happen, as robert mueller told us, in 2016. so why wouldn't it happen again in 2020? that is the concern. if we only had one election and it was a miss characteration of our past, that would be a problem. but we know the threat is real and that the threat is coming. so why aren't we doing anything about it? . >> there is impeachment on one side and the investigation on the way on the other. we haven't seen a transcript. very few people have seen the
complaint itself. obviously lawmakers on capitol hill want to learn more about that. picking up on what christina is saying here. that is the process playing. how do we learn more about this? you can sense it among lawmakers they can't get answers to this, the law wasn't followed. it was tendered the way it should have been. it wasn't brought to congress the way it should have been. >> this is par for the course with this administration. there is pervasive lack of transparency. pause they break the rules so many times and are never held accountable, it is ratcheted up. now we have this new standard where, well, if there's a quid pro quo, then it will be a problem. it was a problem in 2016. and so it's incredibly frustrating to see the degree to which this administration can break the rules and then change the rules.
and so i'm hopeful that democrats will finally step up and say we're not going to focus on what we think our electorate wants when it comes to impeachment. it shouldn't be a vote. impeachment should be about enforcing the rule of law, it should be about congress doing its job, and not about a strategic move, you know, in hopes of winning the next election. somebody has to put their foot down, enforce the law, and do the right thing. >> how much is there a ned briar son moment. you watch all of this unfold. the twitter campaign the president mounted. he is calling it the ukraine witch-hunt. the role that rudy juligiuliani playing. our colleague talked about her latest piece in which she details there is a strategy when this happens. this level of object advice indication happens from the white house. katie and i talking about the timetable and circumstances that might be involved in all of that.
there is an eery similarity. >> you couldn't write a spy or political novel with this sort of facts. the publisher would laugh you out of his or her office. when i heard a whistle-blower complaint targeting the practice, nothing like this has happened in the history of our country. these people are career officials who are out of politics. it's not their job to second-guess the president's judgment or even point out if he does something stupid or inappropriate. this must be so serious, at least in the mind of this whistle-blower. that said, i think we should have learned some lessons from the mueller investigation and the russia story. which is, you know, there was a lot of talk about a lot of dire crimes being committed that in the end didn't pan out. i think we need to wait and see what this transcript actually says. i firmly believe we will eventually see it.
donald trump doesn't want to release it. he wants to goad the media overplaying the story. when we see the black letters on the page, it won't be as big a deal. the idea that he was soliciting any kind of help from a foreign power right after the russia scandal had sort of germinated and blown over in a way that helped him, is just incredible and just speaks to a president that just thinks that the normal rules do not apply to him. >> ken, thank you very much. as i said, we should hear from the president as he makes his way to head off to houston. we will bring you the comments as soon as we get them. brand-new polling on the campaign and president trump. plus, the meeting that may or may not happen at the general assembly this week. will the president sit down with president rouhani of iran ? why elizabeth warren is now the one to beat in the hawk eye state to iowa after the break. e state to iowa after the break. s.
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sanders and pete buttigieg have lost traction. recovering from the steak fry yesterday morning. what do the numbers say to you? the famous pollster says it doesn't crystallize until very late. there is still an opportunity for momentum. the reaction to this poll, what are you hearing? >> reporter: there's a lot of hype heading into the release of that poll there yesterday. 17 of the democratic presidential candidates were at the polling county steak fry speaking over the course of six hours at the grounds just down the road from here. and there was a lot of discussion about the poll that was going to be released there at 7:00 p.m., which as you saw the results last week with elizabeth warren jumping ahead. i think what is interesting to note, this doesn't become crystallized until the end. there is another major democratic dinner slated for november 2nd, about a month from now. that dinner, if you go back to 2008, is the point when barack
obama here in iowa was viewed as being in contention with hillary clinton. so, again, we've got four months, 134 days to be exact. and i think yesterday walking around the ground of the steak fry was emblematic of that. you saw shirts for all the different candidates, and i mean all the different candidates. one gentleman is from webster city, rural iowa. he is a young man. he is backing elizabeth warren. but then i ran into another woman, diana camp from indian hola. i said when you caucus for mayor pete buttigieg. she said, well, i'm wearing his shirt today. i want to play a little bit of sound and give you a little color. i caught up with pete buttigieg as well as beto o'rourke and asked about this campaign four months out. what are the stakes for the next two weeks of this campaign? . >> for us, this is it. we have built a campaign here that is clearly winning.
in iowa, we have more endorsements than any other campaign in there is a reason we are seeing an extra level of propulsion. we will keep building all the way to the caucuses. >> how do you make your comeback in iowa? . >> through these amazing, crazy volunteers. >> reporter: as you just heard from the few candidates, a sense of optimistic if you're running a presidential campaign. there was one candidate yesterday to note who was quite concise with what he needs in order to continue his candidacy, senator cory booker of new jersey saying over the next of 10 days, his campaign needs to raise $1.7 million, his campaign said, in order to amount to very serious campaign. that not only takes him to iowa but through the early states, into super tuesday. there is another senator, michael bennet. i asked about cory booker's comments. he said, hey, my campaign, we are able to live off the land and we are going nowhere.
that is a little bit of sense as the polls from iowa came out and there's movement the next four months. >> the recap of that -- did you have steak, chicken or vegan or all the above? >> i had an apple slush and a little bit of steak. >> let me turn to you. i looked at this and soming that stands out is the erosion and young support. these are early days. people are swapping shirts. they will decide who they will caucus for in 100 plus days. what does that tell you? you look at who is supporting the candidates in a democratic sense? >> what's interesting you look at second choice, down ballot preferences. warren is everyone's second choice. she is a lot of people's first choice as well. biden and bernie, voters are quite familiar with them. so they have more of a ceiling. warren has a lot of room to
progress upward. if bernie goes out of the race, a lot of voters will lean toward warren. warren captures a lot of female hillary clinton voters who are put off by bernie sanders the last time around. so i think she really is a candidate who has a lot of room to grow. i think you see that reflected in the fact that her polling keeps ticking up, up, up. iowa is not exactly a representative state. it is a very white state. the caucus, the way this they do their primary ends up not being i think particularly democratic. obviously it's important to keep an eye on it. but i'm also interested in seeing how does she do in south carolina. how do she do with a swath of voter population that is more representative of the democratic base. >> certainly interesting. christina, with all due respect to the pioneer spirit that he can live off the land with his volunteers, let's talk about senator booker's campaign. a memo was leaked yesterday how
there is a cash crunch. if they don't get enough money, this campaign can't continue. what does it say broadly about where we are? yes, this has been a long campaign. you have until the iowa caucus. >> i'm going to tell my landlord next month we are going to live off the land. but money does signal in some ways support. if you are having a hard time fund-raising, that does say something about your play. >> shrewd play. you can raise a lot of money if you make things seem desperate. >> for a lot of candidates they are making an argument to the american public. people are bragging about donating $5, $10. if you are struggling getting donors, people aren't necessarily resonating with your message. buttigieg is great with fund-raising. that may be demographic biases
and occupational advantages. elizabeth warren is doing very well across the country with different types of people. money doesn't necessarily equate votes, but it does give us some sort of indication as to how voters are willing to invest in the future of your campaign. we saw this with julian castro. a lot of people wanting to give $5 or $10 just to see him on the stage. maybe he wasn't their first choice but they still wanted to hear some of his ideas. there are certain candidates where we want to see them stay around a little bit longer. that is decreasing as each debate goes on. >> can i ask you a follow-up on that. i'm curious. how you qualify for them, there is a means oven couraging people to give a little money. is that encouraging this kind of shirt swapping, lack of commitment vote doctor or commitment to candidates early on. i could give 5 bucks to one campaign, five bucks to another. i'm not all in. >> right. it is still technically a
democracy. last i checked. the president hasn't spoken yet. but this is the opportunity for us to hear from a diverse swath of candidates. there is a debate as is it too many. are they going on too long. are we eating our young in front of our opponents. these are substantive questions we have to ask especially going up against an incumbent. there is an opportunity for a lot of folks who don't know about any of these senators, mayors or businessmen. so they want to see them on the stage to hear, is there a nuance between your medicare plan? what do you think about free college tuition or not? do you have a climate change plan? are you following a fair fight and make sure you're protecting our elections? have you spoken to stacey abrams to make sure this doesn't happen again? i think that's why people are chipping in a few dollars, to have a diversity of opinion. the issue some have is when do we sort of whittle it down to two or three. iowa is not really indicative.
new hampshire, bernie and elizabeth have an an. what happens in south carolina? as i said before, for younger black voters, it will be much easier for them to convince their parents and grandparents to move away from joe biden than to keep children with an candidate. >> we heard of that of younger black voters going to their parents. >> you would think with the whittling of the huge number of people in this particular race that there would be more of a focus in terms of putting their dollars where you want your mouth to be. but we haven't seen that happen because your example of pete buttigieg, he's not polling well in iowa but he is getting a lot of money in terms of fund-raising. so i don't think that it's
necessarily that is going to mean people will open up their wall it's or pocketbooks to be able to do that. we have come to a point in time where we need to structure the debates differently. maybe it's not just the qualifying criteria but the way we pose questions and allowing people to respond. are you getting the substance you need? people are not giving in more focused paths because they are not getting enough substance. >> to your point about the investment in the particular campaigns. all right. we leave it there. vaughan hillyard, thank you for your time. tune in at noon today. alex whit will talk to tulsi gabbard from hawaii. that is at noon today on msnbc. we're just hours away from the largest diplomatic gathering set to take place here in new york. a standoff between the u.s. and iran all over it. everything you need to know about this year's u.n. general assembly after the break. assembk
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tensions in the middle east, the climate crisis, and the latest scandal involving president trump. a few of president trump's closest allies decided not to come. world leaders like ma crone, merkel, and boris johnson will take the helm on middle east, climate change and health care. president trump does have a meeting on his schedule with the ukrainian president. katie, christina and jill. jill, let me start with you. we have the official schedule now. the leaders with whom he is going to have these bilateral meetings. this tempest has erupted about this phone call, the president of ukraine. lo and behold is high on the list a meeting. >> i don't know that the trump administration is super concerned about the optics of that. i think what is obvious from what we will discussed this week is how much the u.s. is following on a lot of the
issues. climate change is first and foremost on the agenda. and we're not leading on that issue. you just put up the list of america's current allies and you see who trump is friendly with. auto it's a list of conservatives -- >> justin trudeau. i was a little confused for a second. i was like huh. sorry. go on. >> who is who of conservative leaders. i think it is clear gathering all the world leaders this week, just how have the u.s. has slipped. i find it depressing. just how much we have failed to be a beacon for a liberal democracy in the world. . >> there is a great line, this is the year that the rest of the liberal order tries to imagine life without u.s. leadership. we talk about climate change, what the world is doing at the u.s., what they are not doing. they are taking it more broadly. that is to say on all of these issues. >> absolutely. we also have been in
conversations with very conservative issues like reproductive rights around the world. we are pairing with saudi arabia to talk about the future of reproductive freedoms globally. that is a very dangerous thing. it might not be as immediate terrifyings on climate change or partnering with saudi arabia in opposition to iran. it really broadcasts the way in which the u.s. is no longer leading on the liberal democracy front. certainly not leading on the human rights front. definitely not leading on the climate change front. instead, partnering with reactionary backward-looking governments. it's terrifying. >> i feel like you left out one really important piece and that's you all, the media. these are people who believe in repressing and evaporating the significant of the media, making it state-run or making it all
fake. that is the much more longstanding damage beyond a donald trump presidency and republican administration as well. that's frightening to me. we have said this so many times on your show before. so many liberal democracies are learning how to get along without us. they are going to structure their economies without us because we can no longer be trusted or relied upon to be the leaders. >> and that's because of donald trump and this the administration. i'm more curious to see what random announcements come outpost bilateral talks. >> and other ran dam things. it is a crowded agenda. you have a major climate summit tomorrow. >> yes. >> and then a small reledgeous freedom gathering. that's where president trump is going to be. >> he is never with anyone else. that's the history of donald trump for those of us who live in new york. he's actually never been with people who were leading of anything of substance.
so you know that he doesn't feel comfortable around other world leaders who have intellectual positions where they want to advance a particular agenda. he gets very sullen. that's where he has his own party. he has never been comfortable in any sort of proper society. >> we saw the g7 meeting, looking disinterested. our next guest washington governor jay inslee. the call for the president's impeachment are getting louder. impeachment are getting louder ♪ ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat. panera's new warm grain full of flavor, color,. full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today.
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welcome back to "up". i'm david gura. with the whistle-blower scandal, calls for impeachment are getting loud. an ex andrea owe casio cortez sounding the alarm. 137 house democrats are on the record in favor of beginning impeachment proceedings. this is what senator elizabeth warren had to say last night in iowa. >> congress failed to act. and now donald trump has shown that he believes he is above the law. it is time for us to call out this illegal behavior and start impeachment proceedings right now. >> the governor of washington state jay inslee is here to take part in the u.n. climate action slated to begin tomorrow.
we will spend time talking about climate in just a sec. let me ask you about this news and impeachment. when you were running for the nomination, you weren't all in on impeachment. it is something you said should be on the table as investigations proceed. how do you react to the news we have gone this last week, the concern over the telephone call, communications between president trump and the president of ukraine. . >> the most recent outage of ukraine shows this is a president who thinks he's above or has a political death wish. it is the right thing to do to pursue impeachment at this point. we cannot allow this president to think he has cart blanch to trample the constitution. this is a message to the president, you will be confronted. it is time to act. >> now that you are not running, do you have unbridled, more
willing to say that? >> sit no secret i ran for president. just seemed like it at the time. i late in my candidacy took that position. so that didn't change. the fact that a president, after all the damage that happened to democracy with russia, would go out and even think about it with ukraine, is really unspeakable. that's why i do believe congress should act. >> let me ask you about climate. i know you were marching this week as students marched in cities and towns. your reaction. somebody who made this the marquis part of his campaign. your reaction to what we saw, the manifestation of all the support. >> well, i never felt so young to be surrounded by hundreds of people. and i declared myself the oldest youth kid striker in the united states. it was really inspiring. i was in spokane, washington,
not a huge city with almost 1,000 kids who were just really vocal and appropriately boisterous with a moral message. i was with 600 young people yesterday. and you can't be inspired no matter what your age to see young people who will bring this moral message. they speak from the high ground. when a 12-year-old girl looks at a 60-year-old and says, hey, bub, don't destroy my future. there is only one answer which is, yes, sir, i'm going to wake up and smell the roses and deal with climate change. it is unassailable. it is moving the dialogue. when i'm in new york with the u.s. climate alliance, we have 25 states that are moving the needle, are committed to dealing with climate change. and the rest of the world is happy to hear that message. >> the u.n. moving ahead without the united states. when you look at what will happen tomorrow, president trump not participate anything that
summit, what does that say to you? have you written it off? >> well, it would be helpful. we do have leadership from the states. so we have this group that jerry brown and andrew cuomo and i started, u.s. climate alliance. we have 25 states. we represent 60% of the united states's economy. we will be the third largest in the world if we were a separate nation. and i'm not suggesting that at the moment. but we are a force in and of itself. and the rest of the world has concluded that donald trump will be just a blip in history and are moving on. if there's any good news at all, no one has followed donald trump over the cliff internationally. the word has continued this momentum, the spirit of this activity is alive here in new york. and we will keep moving forward as a world. and i think we have succeeded with this u.s. climate alliance. we wanted the rest of the world to know there is intelligent life in the u.s. and we have succeeded. so the world is moving without donald trump.
we will get over him bijan 2 january 2021 and have a good president >> one of the reasons i loved seeing you on the debate stage is you were hammering the climate change issue. and i thought that was so valuable and important to bring into the democratic primary. among the candidates still running, who do you think has the strongest climate change plan and how do you think journalists like us sitting at this table, what should they be asking the candidates about climate change? >> any number of candidates have now joined in this effort and have come forward with plans in the last several weeks, which has been gratifying. i have to tell you i'm particularly impressed by senator warren's plan because hers has developed a real concrete requirements that will wean off fossil fuels. and the short time period to act, she has embraced really
strong provisions. others have good ideas. i'm glad this is now in the fore of the democratic candidacy. and i'm looking forward to finding the strongest candidate to go after donald trump's weakest point. this is his weakest point. the thing that people distrust him the most about, is the environment. i always thought you beat republicans at their weakest point. we will find our strongest candidate. >> a ring to be kissed. do you have them wanting your endorsement? are they reaching out to you? >> i have talked to them. i don't feel like royalty, though. i have talked to a number of candidates about it. we had an impact in the debate. it was gratifying. we have now seen the democratic candidates to some degree
recognize this issue. it has been gratifying to see the development of there. give credit to the young people where it is due. sunrise movement. climate striking. greta thunberg. it has become the moral movement. they will succeed. we have to hold them up. >> tkpwofrp or jay inslee in new york. more on climate change with jonathan safran. another massive political rally today in texas. erth massive poly today in texas twisting thunder. i am royalty of racing, raise your steins to the king of speed.
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saying about it on the campaign trail. >> congress should investigate this. this appears to be an overwhelming abuse of power >> minutes away from brand-new polling from nbc news and the wall street journal. what numbers say about voter confidence in joe biden as well as in president trump. next week, taking the show to austin, texas. tune in saturday. live from the texas tribune festival saturday on "up" at 8:00 eastern time only on msnbc. in honor of national hispanic heritage month, spotlighting the like of 20 people working to empower their community and see who made the nbc latino 20 list. more "up" straight ahead after the break. he aadfter the break. creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. the united states postal service makes more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country.
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this is "up". i'm david gura. overnight, former vice president joe biden calling for a house investigation into president trump's phone call with ukraine's leader after allegations president trump sought the help of a foreign government in his re-election efforts. the president so far has denied wrongdoing, accusing the media of protecting the former vice president, calling reports a witch-hunt. he tweeted this, now that the democrats and the fake news media have gone bust on every one of their witch-hunt schemes, they are trying to start one just as ridiculous as the others, call it the ukraine
witch-hunt. while at the same time trying to protect sleepy joe biden. will fail again. he tweeted out his own response to allegations and said to build it up as big as possible to have a bigger downfall. only the latest in a series of actions that some believe is a sign that the president believes he is above the law. the washington post saying the push by trump and rudolph giuliani to influence the newly elected ukrainian leader reveals a president convinced of his own invincibility, willing and eager to wield the fast powers of the united states to taint the political cal foe and confident that no one can hold him back. tim o'brien's latest column, president trump decides laws are for the little people. has the dialed move on impeachment? senator chris coons is a democrat who sits on the foreign relations committee, supporter of vice president joe biden.
we are awaiting comments from the president of the united states as he goes to houston. from the vantage you have on the senate foreign relations committee, what's been reported here that president trump reached out to ukraine's president to give him the authorization and encourage to do this kind of investigation, senator. >> well, david, good to be with you. i think we need to get to the bottom of this. first, it would be very easy for president trump to resolve some of this by promptly releasing the transcript of his call with ukrainian president zelensky. i am hopeful there is a transcript of this call. i'll remind you one of the many ways he has been an unconventional president is he has had a number of calls and meetings with important foreign leaders, not the least of which vladimir putin, without having briefings before and after with leaders in the state department, without having his own translator and documentation. that's something that was an issue early in thinks presidency. so release the transcript first. that will help to clear some things up.
second, acting director of national intelligence, maguire, should stop blocking the whistle-blower. the complaints that were filed with the inspector general, from being shared with the intelligence committees of both the senate and the house. and then last, i'll agree with the vice president's statement that this ought to be looked into. whether or not the $250 million in badly needed military assistance to the ukrainian government was slow walked or tkaepb dangled as the president's own attorney, rudy giuliani was something with the ukrainian government. it is critical we get the facts. i do think part of why president trump keeps repeating allegations that no credible news source found to have any foundation is because he views joe biden as the greatest threat to his re-election. we had a strong showing in iowa. there was the polk county steak
to not just our democratic traditions but to our national security. i think she has it exactly backwards. frankly, this is a house matter. i do think they should investigate until it's clear what is grounds for proceeding. and frankly, as someone who serves in the senate, i know the jury. if there were to be an impeachment from the house, the jury in this case would ultimately decide whether or not the president is removed is the current senate. given the crickets that we're hearing from the republican majority, i think it's pretty clear under no circumstances would they act to actually remove the president from impeachment. what i hear up and down the state of delaware, what i heard from voters in iowa this weekend, there's an awful lot of folks who would like to see us address the real problems facing them, from prescription drug prices to the opioid crisis, to helping strengthen jobs in our schools. we do better my focusing on the election and changing the jury
to the electorate both here in iowa and across the country. >> i think she's talking about the moral imperative. >> i understand that. >> there was a quotation in the "washington post". the president appears to be daring the rest of the political system to stop him, and if they don't, he will go further. it is this instant that took place july 25th. but a broader issue, being unbridled or feeling unbridled. . >> yes. david, to be fair, that's a strong point. and to the extent that may be what this tweet is about. the point that we are at risk of setting the precedent that this president is unrestrained in any way by any sort of investigation or impeachment proceeding is an important point to consider. that's why the house to spoke us on i a few purposeful investigations. there are lots of different areas in which the president needs to be held accountable.
that's why we have an allegation that he is misusing his power as president. >> he talked about issues including ukraine. . >> in texas this terrible flooding they have been having. we will be talking to a lot of people. that will be at ellington air force base. some of you are coming with me i guess. we will be going to houston. the prime minister of india invited me and i accepted. we're going to have a good time with prime minister modi. i hear it is a tremendous crowd. so that will be in houston. we will be going to the $1 billion plant.
i told him if he does something really spectacular, i will go and cut the ribbon. and he did. he invested a billion dollars in ohio. so that is pratt industries. great company headed by a very great businessman from australia. so they are bringing a billion dollars into ohio. i said i would go and cut the ribbon. here it is. we're ready to cut a ribbon. it's a great plan. then we are coming home. we have a lot of work at the united nations during the next week. >> [inaudible question]. >> nothing is ever off the table completely, but i have no intention of meeting with iran. but i'm a flexible person. we are meeting with a lot of leaders. we have about 15 meetings set up. but iran is not one of them.
. >> [inaudible question]. >> we had a great conversation. it was largely congratulatory. it was largely corruption -- you will corruption taking place. largely the fact that we don't want our people like vice president biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the ukraine. and ukraine has got a lot of problems. the new president is saying that he is going to be able to rid the country of corruption. and i said that would be a great thing. we had a great conversation. we had a conversation on many things. in fact, i believe ukraine put out a statement yesterday saying we covered many different topics. it was a warm and friendly conversation.
i backed them from the beginning. i'm upset other countries aren't doing the same. germany should be much more, france, all the european union should be spending money. why are we spending money and they're not? or at least they're spending very little by comparison. so i'm not happy about that. >> [inaudible question]. >> i would have no problem. rudy is a straight shooter. he wants to see the same thing as a lot of people with respect to ukraine. ukraine has had a tremendous corruption problem. somehow they were involved in a lot of different things that took place in our country. hopefully it can be straightened out. and i will say the new president, we had a very good talk. the new president got elected based on the fact that he would end corruption. that was probably his number one thing.
[inaudible question]. >> the whistle-blower -- it sounds like it's not a whistle-blower. you can't have that happen to a president of the united states. the conversation, by the way, was absolutely perfect. it was a beautiful warm, nice conversation. and it was put out last night also by ukraine. but you can't have people doing this. and you can't have people doing false alarms like this. you know, when a president speaks to the head of another country, he has been to be able to speak to those people. and those people don't want to know they're being recorded or you have a stenographer working. you don't want to hear that. you can't do that to a president, and you can't do that to other countries. with all that being said, we had a very great conversation, very straight, very honest conversation. i hope they can put it out. >> [inaudible question]. >> well, i don't say anything. whenever i speak to a foreign leader, i assume there are many people on the line.
i don't assume i'm talking to the leader. any time i'm on the phone with a foreign leader, many, many people are on the line. sometimes they are taping calls. sometimes they're doing the stenograph stenographer. but i also assume many people are on the line from the other side. so if i'm speaking to a country, they also have people on the line. so who would say a thing like what you're saying? now, i will say this, i said absolutely nothing wrong. it was perfect. listen to me. listen to me. listen -- >> [inaudible question]. >> listen to me. >> [inaudible question]. >> listen to me. i assume many people are on the line. i know that before i make the call. you have intelligence agencies, everybody listening. that call was a greatcall. it was a perfect call. a perfect call. what wasn't perfect is the horrible thing that joe biden said. and now he made a lie, never spoke to his son.
give me a break. he already said he never spoke to his son. now he said yesterday. who wouldn't speak to their son? of course you spoke to your son. so he made the mistake of saying he never spoke to his son. he spoke to his son. monitorly, what he said about the billions of tkphrars that he wouldn't give them unless they fired the prosecutor and then he bragged about how they fired the prosecutor and they got the money. >> [inaudible question]. >> it's not a sub at all. the floods are very important to me. and climate change. everything is very important. but today i'm going to texas on the floods. then i'm going to houston on the big rally, the rally for prime minister modi. and he asked me to do it, of ind india. and i look forward to doing it.
>> they took a tremendous amount of money to china. he would sell us out. look at all the money he paid in china. he knew nothing. the son is a stiff. he knew nothing. and he did the same thing in ukraine. he knows nothing. this is a very dishonest thing that joe biden did. then he said he never spoke to his son. does anybody believe that one? but then he also said long before that he did speak to his son. so he lied again. but what he said is that he wouldn't give -- i think it was billions of dollars, to ukraine, unless they fired the prosecutor who was looking at his son. and his son's company, the company that his son worked with. and that is a very dishonest thing. and i'm not looking to hurt biden. i'm not even looking to hold him
to it, to be honest. but he said a very bad thing. he said a very foolish thing. now, me, on the on the other hand, the conversation with the new president of ukraine, was perfect. they put out a statement last night. they said the same thing. it. >> a warm friendly conversation. there was no quid pro quo. there was nothing. it was a perfect conversation. >> how do you explain delaying military aid? >> because i want germany, and i want france, and i want the european union to put up money. and i didn't delay anything. we paid the military aid to the best of my knowledge. listen to me. i gave so much more to ukraine than owe about many ma did. go back and check your records. you know what you should do -- also ask -- >> mr. president, can you tell us why anybody should be allowed to buy a gun without a
background check? >> we're looking at it right now. we are studying it very hard. it's an issue that frankly congress is wasting all their time on nonsense. we are studying very hard. if congress would ever get back to work, we could do something. congress is doing all of this nonsense. i'll tell you what, they don't have any time. democrats in congress are doing nothing. i'll tell you what, they will lose the election. you know why? they're not doing anything. >> we're working very hard with some democrats. the problem i have is jerry nadler and all of these people keep wasting time in congress over nothing. they're studying nothing. the mueller report was perfect. lewandowski was magnificent. everybody was perfect. they couldn't accept the mueller report. they couldn't accept that defeat. they can't now accept the fact that we have the best economy we
have ever had and we may be hitting another all-time high in the stock market. >> [inaudible question]. >> we're looking at a lot of different things. the problem we find is the democrats have very little time to talk because they are wasting their time. you take a look at what they're doing. it's a total waste of time, and they know it. they know it. >> we are working with joe manchin and pat toomey. we have a lot of people working on this. we will be seeing it over a period of time. the problem that i have is the democrats in the house are totally unavailable to talk. they have had hearings all day over something already won by us. they made up a story. it was a false story. it was a hoax. and frankly, we have to get to the bottom of how it started.
but they are wasting all of their time on a hoax. >> you said jay powell was a bonehead with no guts. but then you said -- why? >> well, he's got a job. i could do things if i wanted. but i don't want to do that. we are so strong despite jay powell. but jay powell is not helping us. other countries have lower interest rates. look, it is very simple. he lifted the race far too quickly and lowered them far too slowly. and it's a shame. >> are there any other boneheads in your administration whose jobs are safe. >> not too many. not too many boneheads. i'll tell you what, we really now have a great administration. what we have is a great cabinet. our cabinet has done a great job. go ahead. >> [inaudible question]. >> no.
he is a great gentleman, joe. he is doing a fantastic job. and i know one thing, he will only do what's right. but he is doing a fantastic job. and he is only going to do what's right. just so you understand the conversation i had with the president of ukraine was absolutely perfect. and people better find out who these people are that are trying to subvert our country because here we go again. these are bad people. but the conversation i had with the president of ukraine was absolutely a 10. it was perfect. now, what you have to do is look at the corruption on the democrat's side. take a look how the whole witch-hunt started. now they want to start another witch-hunt. unfortunately this one is reverting to joe biden because he has done some very bad things. and i'm not looking to hurt him, to be honest. he needs all the help he can
get. i'm not looking to hurt him. i'm not looking to hurt his family. but the corruption and what he said is a terrible thing. >> the president of the united states just a few moments ago. he said there at the end, joe biden has done some very bad things. i should say there is no evidence of that. no evidence that he pressured ukraine to do anything. there are, however, as we have learned through multiple reports, evidence that rudy julie, a the president's tperpbl attorney, did try to get ukraine to investigate joe biden's son. it was a wide-ranging conversation on the south lawn of the white house. he talked about the trip he is about to take to houston for a rally being convened by the prime minister of india, prime minister modi. that is scheduled to take place tonight. s and he talked about this conversation as a nice conversation, straight, very honest conversation, going on to say it was a perfect call. then an absolutely perfect call. then an absolute 10 during the course of the remarks, which
lasted about 10 minutes. and he talks about how he hoped it would be released to the public. released to the public to showcase what he just described. there was a contradiction therein to the comments as he expressed displeasure over the fact that people were listening in to that conversation. senator from delaware still with us. chris coons, supporter of vice president biden. i want to get your reaction. your sense of how this is supposed to be conducted. >> that was quite an exchange with president trump on the white house line as he is about to take off for texas. there should be a transcript of it. as the president seemed to bridle over the idea that there are recordings and transcripts made of hearings and of
conversations between heads of state. by releasing to congress and the public the actual transcript of this call. the meandering and largely unfocused nature of this engagement with the press that we just saw also gives me pause. as president trump goes to the united nations general assembly, he will have a whole series of meetings with heads of state from around the world. there's a very tense situation in the persian gulf with iran and saudi arabia. he does, according to press reports, plan to meet with ukrainian president zelensky. and as you made some reference to in one of the press corps members on the lawn referenced, the key issue here is the combination of the transcript of the conversation between president zelensky and our president donald trump but also what his personal attorney, rudy giuliani, may have done, said in meetings with ukrainian representatives as that $250
million in critical military aid was being held up and slow-walked over several months. >> the president saying i hope they muput it out. of course he could authorize this to be released. i'll ask you just to react to what you heard there, what the president raised, the comments he made about hunter biden. this can now be distilled simply. the points to the specious story are simple and easy and repeated over and over and over again. how does the biden campaign, how do you and others react to that? the public being phrupblg onnbl the false stories over the coming days? >> my reaction is here we go again. president trump repeated baseless allegations about hillary's emails over and over and over to the point where the average american, the average voter couldn't tell you what it was actually about and what the
actual implications were. but they just had the vague impression there was something inappropriate that may have happened. that is exactly what president trump is trying to do here. that's what rudy giuliani is trying to do. and i hope both the media and informed electorate won't take the bait and repeat these baseless allegations. this has been looked into by a dozen different news sources. they say there is nothing to it. to allow the president to demonstrate that he views former vice president biden as his strongest rival and to demonstrate that by going after him and his family over and over with a baseless allegation i think would simply repeat one of the worst moments of the 2016 campaign where the depwaeufts largely dominated by a whole series of attacks against hillary clinton, reserves to ben g gazzi and emails. nothing suggested that level to that constant attention to those issues. we have a lot of issues in the world. we have a lot of reasons to be
concerned about the persian gulf, for example. i think joe biden is the best qualified candidate in the democratic field to move us forward in a way that will make our country not just prosperous but more secure in an uncertain world. . >> thank you very much. i know it was longer than you expected, comments from the president. this is not a joe biden specific thing. this is something every candidate should be worried about. we will discuss more about ukraine when we come back. re abt ukraine when we come back. g thu. i am royalty of racing, raise your steins to the king of speed. red lobster's endless shrimp is back for just $15.99. get all the shrimp you want, any way you want 'em. like new sriracha-honey shrimp, savory grilled teriyaki shrimp, classic shrimp scampi and more! red lobster's endless shrimp is $15.99. hurry in. plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too?
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think time i'm on the phone with a foreign leader, many, many people are on the line. sometimes they're taping calls. sometimes they're doing a stenographer. but i also assume many people are on the line from the other side. if i'm speaking to a country, they also have people on the line. so who would say a thing like what you're saying. now, i will say this, i said absolutely nothing wrong. >> that was president trump just moments ago. tim o'brien is the executive editor of bloomberg opinion, msnbc contributor. former chair of the national bar association and former chairman of the democratic party. scott, let me start with you and get your reaction. >> please start with me. you heard him say you can't do this to a president. >> is he above the law?
he believes he is above the law. his lawyers in new york, when the fighting the release of his tax return wrote essentially he was above the law. >> creating lawyering. >> no basis for it. went beyond the doj memo. it's never been tested in federal court or by the supreme court. i want to point your audience out to something else too. in that interview he never denied raising biden, hunter or something them to investigate him for his own political game. it was a perfect call. >> it was a 10. >> here's the killer issue. he said with all those people listening, they shouldn't be, right? but at the same time he said who would raise this or say something about biden and hold up the military aid unless you investigate biden? who would be quote enough dumb enough to do that. you would, mr. president, because of your narcissism, because of your belief that you are above the law.
and look at what you said to the public that most people who were smart enough would never say to the public. so, yes, release the complaint and we can put it to bed. and he won't because he is dumb enough to say that to the new president of ukraine. >> he said he hopes it happens. >> he controls it. >> he does control it. >> a different definition of help when the president is involved. not a real sense of gravity when you look at how he responded to the questions. >> correct. that's how he handles everything. he speaks in platitudes over and over again. look at his press availability. he makes himself so available to the public. but all he does is gaslight us every time. we know that because he said don't look here, look there. and he puts the blame back on democrats over and over. we forget sometimes that he has this in his mind that he is untouchable. and i think where we are, and we
talked about this so many times in the last two and a half years, are we at that point where the roads diverge. and are we headed down a different path? and i think with all due respect to senator coons who i have grown to like very much, i think he has got it all wrong. he makes impeachment sound confusing, like it's something they can't do for whatever reason. ocasio-cortez tapped into a feeling, whether you're a republican who is frustrating with washington or a democrat frustrated with the leadership. there is a sense that they are had he too untouchable when they get to the highest office in the land, and that's wrong. >> the idea, tim, that something should be done. do something is the headline on the slight piece i saw. this is percolating up. he is dismissing all the hearings. time wasters on capitol hill. but there is a real urgency in the statements i have seen from lawmakers in the last 24 to 36 hours. >> it seems like there is a big sea change since friday. even say friday evening. once it emerged that he was
strong arming a foreign leader to dig up dirt on his rival, which reminded everybody -- >> as president of the united states we should say. >> an actor in the middle of it. it is not minions. it's not people in the campaign. it is the president himself using the powers of his office to self-deal, which is exactly what the framers were concerned about about an unfettered presidency. one of the difficulties trump presents is the public, to the media, to the congress is people are looking at him as a rational actor and saying, well, does he do this because he is trying to distract or is he doing this because he's just ignorant? and the reality is, you know, he's somebody i think southerners would call simple. >> uh-huh. . >> and doctors would call narcissistic. and police would call pathologic. he is not a rational actor. >> how hard could it be to impeach donald trump? what is there left to investigate? do your jobs.
last word here. >> okay. people have a hard time assessing because they're not recognizing him for what he really is. laws are laws. it is clear the president ok obstructed justice. he is abusing his powers right now. . >> jay powell is in that job. the president can't get rid of him. he said he has a job. i could do something about that if i wanted. all right. up ahead here, results of our brand-new nbc/wall street journal poll. the latest data on what the electorate wants when it comes to health care and immigration. s to health care and immigration new crest gum and sensitivity. ahh brain freeze! no, it's my teeth. your teeth hurt? just sensitivity. i should see my dentist.
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this is "up". i'm david gura. a new nbc news/wall street journal poll shows troubling signs for president trump. released moments ago reveals 70% of voters do not like him personally regardless of how they feel about his policies, indicating he is more disliked than any of the five most recent presidents. the number virtually unchanged from last month. it remains consistent with bill
clinton and barack obama stood at this point in their presidencies. two-thirds supported the more moderate optional medicare buy-in program. less popular is medicare for all, 41% of those polled. let's dig into this a little bit more. i will breeze past the approval rating. it is stagnant. >> it was a pivotal issue in the midterms. democrats can try to say and should say that we will deliver this service to you. i think the issue that they are facing is the narrative. there is a boogeyman thought of the government traeaking your private insurance away. we live where there is a large public education system and
people have the option to accepted their children to private schools if they want as well. there has never been a thought that having a public educational system is taking your rights away. there is a way that warren and the others can speak in the same way. right now medicare for all as a narrative is disturbing moderate democratic voters who feel like it means good quality health care will get taken away from them. and that's not the fact if democrats know how to tell that narrative. . >> economy a big issue. let me read from the poll here. 46% of americans give trump credit for improving the economy. the highest share of his presidency. glimmer of good news in the results. this is something clearly the president is banking on. >> yeah. . >> that recognition taking place >> we have wrongly dup that as an electorate for decades. give the sitting president credit for the economy. this is happening with millennials. everything is fine so how bad
can he be? the likability number gets me. we always wanted to like our president. to want to have a beer with your president, having the president into your house. we talked offline how democrats can do it all. somebody that is not a fan of this president, that won't vote for him in 2020, yet i remain a registered republican. you can walk and chew gum at the same time. they can talk about impeachment. >> and do impeachment. . >> they have been talking about it forever. but do it. do it. talking about what you can do for americans who hate their health care plans or remain uninsured. i have friends with graduate degrees who refuse health care coverage. they say obamacare failed me. it is too expensive to get covered. i'm frustrated by the seeming
lacking willing to seize the moment by the leadership of the house. >> it is 41%. medicare for all and the fear. but they don't understand it. we have never had it before. they didn't understand obamacare. it served a lot of people in a very positive way. but the medicare for all, they have a message it the right way. they have to explain the, which is why statistics show that the option of medicare or buying into private health care, that statistic you showed, shows the moderates on the democratic side and most people want to give it a try. they to the floor a problem with it. at the same time they are afraid of it. because we fear what is the unknown. long way to go for medicare for all. >> a stark reality here, too, you don't know until it happens to you. and you're the one with the surprise medical pills. that's why coalitions are trying so hard and members have that political skpl they want to act. what happens to the system then?
as a wife of a physician, what will happen with our system that is so competitive and so innovative if we are doing things like medicare for all? that is a real discussion we need to see play out. it is confusing to a lot of americans who haven't hit that snag. >> this will be a democratic issue. >> sure. >> they will have to figure out the health care saga, whether it's medicare for all or buy-in or some moderate change in health care or to build on obama. >> tie this up for us here. we started out talking about his personal approval, how people think about him. historically low, as we mentioned at the top. you look at his policies swell. they surveyed in that poll how people feel about a huge part of his policy platform. that is building this wall. just 43% of all voters support the construction of a border wall. his personality seemed to eclipse a lot of policy position. is that going to be the case this time around? >> there is a report card
around. when he campaigned the first time he had messages. you lost your jobs to the chinese and mexican immigrants, so i will build a wall and crackdown on china. he has now had two and a half years, and he hasn't really delivered solutions to working americans. he is still speaking in platitudes. and the wall is emblematic of his failure across a broad range of policy issues. >> a major issue for voters in 2020 is climate change. award-winning writer ringing the alarm. jonathan safran foer. we are the weather. saving the weather begins at breakfast. thank you for being here. a wonderful collections of essays in the "new york times". you made a radical suggestion for how people can do this. explain how you came to that point of view. . >> sure. it's not a point of view. no radical suggestions. the totally uncontroversial well-known science. i had makeup put on a couple of minutes ago backstage and had a
nice conversation with the woman who is doing here. i said i'm here to talk about climate change. 91% of americans acknowledge the science. twice as many americans believe in the existence of bigfoot as deny the existence of climate change. but there is a problem, which is we're not connecting the dots between what we know, what we care about, and our actions. so there are four actions that matter more than all others with respect to the environment, which are flying less, driving less, controlling overpopulation, and eating less meat. eating less meat is one of the four things that i think everybody watching can act on within the next couple of hours. >> something you do in your book is you look to history, look attica taat catastrophes from the past.
what would make people recognize the significance of this. i guess you could call it increasingly faster moving crisis to do something about it. >> i think the most important thing is to move away from rhetoric and have a plan. with all due respect to your panel that you were just speaking to, referring to the president as simple or as narcissistic or pathological, true as those statements may be, isn't actually accomplishing anything. even worse, it is confusing feeling good about having strong political opinions for doing good in the world. we know there are things we have to do to save the planet. we have to fly less. we have to drive less, and eat less meat. what i would strongly suggest to everybody is to make a plan and give it numbers and days of the week. even more importantly, or as importantly, share that plan with your family and friends. to be honest, i wrote this book about climate change. it wasn't until a week or two ago when i was confronted by a
young couple about to get married. they shared their plan with me. eat vegetarian. vegan two days a week. drive no more than 1500 kilometers a year. this was in europe. have a maximum of two babies. i was really moved and also embarrassed, to be honest, because i didn't have such a plan. it inspired me to create one. and i think it is something that we could all do as individuals and with our families to sit down, take a piece of paper and say, look, guys, this is obviously something we know about. we're not ignorant. this is obviously something that we care about. because who is the person, conservative or liberal, old or young, religulous or secular, that doesn't care about the fate of the planet. we are then held accountable. >> the last question about this crisis of leadership. we talk about climate and the fact that the u.s. has left this vacuum open. the u.s. isn't leading on the issue.
mark bitman reviewed the book. he said individual decisions have power and despair is an awful option but individual decisions are limited without forward-thinking leadership the needed change won't happen. just want you to respond to that and get a sense how worried you are we to the floor much leadership on the issue right now. >> he's absolutely right. individual change is not going to be sufficient. the problem is we're not going to have the leadership that we need without sufficient -- sufficient change of individuals. these two things reinforce each other. it is a mistake to think we can only have top-down solutions and a mistake to think we can only have bottom-up solutions. as we start to change our habits, they will make it easier for us to change our habits, making it easier for the government to change its policies. but we have to begin. to cry trump is not a way of beginning. we need to show not only with
our words, not only at marches, with posters but the ways we spend our money what it is that we want. we need to push change. 91% of the deforestation in the amazon is because of animal agriculture. these are images that are upsetting to everybody who is watching this. if you want to protect the amazon, the most effective way to do it is to eat less beef. as we do that, the government will create legislation in response. but we have to stop waiting for someone else to do it. the u.s. is waiting for china to act. we are waiting for our government to act. when is somebody, when are we, when are all of us saying, jesus christ, it is being destroyed. we have to do something right this second. here's what i can do. as i start to do things, my friends and family will start to do them, my local community will do them, and the government will change as well in response. >> jonathan, great to speak with you. thank you very much. "we are the weather." after the break, lawmakers and reporters dig into the phone
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so, president trump and allies are trying to justify the phone call with the ukrainian president and suggest that hunter biden deserves more scrutiny. a staff writer for "the new yorker" pro filed hunter biden. he writes there is little question that his proximity to power shaped the arc of his career. and he is super rich terrain. but allies in their eagerness to undermine biden's candidacy and deflect attention from their own lapses have the dubious narrative that biden used the of his of vice president to advance and protect his son's interests. adam, great to have you here. the president just addressed this, raised the specious allegations in comments he made on the south lawn of the white house. i hate to have you synthesize this in such a short amount of time. is there any there there as the story rears its head again?
>> the question is what do we mean by there there? >> yes. >> he is obviously the son of joe biden. he has a famous last name. he was offered a lucrative deal with a ukrainian company in 2014. had him on the board. at the same time that his father was, you know, driving u.s. policy in ukraine with an agenda of cracking down on corruption. so that was a questionable legitimate -- you know, legitimate questions to be asked about the wisdom of hunter's decision to do that and why biden's top aides decided not to intervene to try to get hunter to step down from that seat. that is a -- i think a legitimate source of inquiry and discussion. on the issue of whether or not joe biden later in 2016 used the power of the vice presidency to try to ask the government of ukraine to remove the prosecutor
because this is the accusation that's being made here, because that prosecutor was investigating verisma and hunter, i found no evidence to back that up and much evidence to the contrary. it appears based on my reporting that the oligarch who runs barisma felt protected when shulkin was in office. when biden actually had him removed or pressured to have him removed, that's when the oligarch left the country. enhe was concerned he was no longer protected. what i found was quite contrary to this allegation in terms of the vice president firing this particular prosecutor because he was trying to protect his son for some reason. >> tim brian, i want you to react to that.
the president misspelled the name. adam brings it up, corruption by proxy. that is the look of this happening or it happening inadvertently. >> but there's nothing in the fact pattern as adam correctly points out that hunter biden was on the board of a company that was under investigation. it doesn't appear that it was under investigation. it wasn't hunter biden's company. he was a board member. board members are pretty passive actors. they're not at the heart and soul of how a company operates. there's no reason to believe this is an issue that should be put on the same level as trump trying to solicit issues. >> adam entous, you were one of the best investigative reporters. as you undertook this, were there any walls that you hit? are there things that you were unable to mine or things that haven't been able to have been answered here? >> let me go back to something that the previous speaker just said. >> tim o'brien. >> yeah.
>> so barisma was under investigation in 2014. the obama administration and the vice president were supporting that investigation. it was being conducted funds of this oligarch were frozen in england from bank account funds. it was the policy of the obama administration, joe biden, even though hunter was on the board starting in april of 2014, they were pushing the ukrainians to investigate barisma and this particular oligarch. what happened is in december of 2014 the prosecutor's office at the time, shulkin was not involved, he wasn't put to this position of prosecutor until later, they basically dismissed the case and the obama administrati administration, biden was part of it, was very angry and put a lot of pressure on the ukrainians. they dropped this case. they saw this as a violation of
american efforts to combat corruption. so there was an investigation backed by the obama administration and joe biden of the company that was employing hunter and that was in 2014. >> describe that investigation in specifics. what were they looking at and what was the time line on it? >> so it was launched in the spring of 2014. they were looking at whether or not the owner or the co-owner of barisma slechefsky used his position as government of ecology in ukraine to get export licenses that were given to barisma. >> that was two years prior to biden putting pressure on the ukrainians to limit corruption, right? by the time that biden went over there to do that that investigation was no longer in play, zplekt. >> correct. but my point is is that the obama administration was
encouraging the ukrainians to investigate barisma. the allegation is that the obama administration through biden later tried to get them to drop the investigation. these are contradictory positions. that's why i'm saying it doesn't make sense, these allegations. i'm just trying to correct the point about whether or not bari barisma was under investigation. >> i encourage everyone to read this. adam entous, thank you for joining us. thank you so much to my panel. an hour went by too quickly in part because of the comments by the president at the stop of the hour. we come to you live next saturday live from the texas tribune festival. "am joy" is next. i am royalty of racing,
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knows i'll beat him like a drum and he's using the abuse of power and every element of the presidency to try to do something to smear me. everybody looked at this and everybody's looked at it and said there's nothing there. ask the right question. >> good morning and welcome to a.m. joy. we have a lot to get to this morning including a new iowa poll that the nation is buzzing about as well as donald trump's latest move which could push us into a war. but first as former vice president and 2020 presidential candidate joe biden pointed out to the media on saturday, we remain in the midst of what could be the worst of three years worth of trump scandals. one that could finally push house democrats to pull the impeachment lever. according to t"the wall street journal" donald trump repeatedly pulled foreign interference 2.0. essentially trying to do to biden what russia did to hillary clinton in 2016.