tv MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson MSNBC October 24, 2019 7:00am-8:00am PDT
that wraps up this hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. coming up mornings with hallie jackson. >> plenty of it. good morning to you. new this morning, democrats' next phase of the impeachment investigation getting ready to ramp up while republicans are looking for an off ramp, maybe running out of ways to defend the president. the democrats are looking to bring some of the key diplomats who connected the dots of a quid pro quo with ukraine back for public hearings maybe as soon as next month with new alarm bells sounding today about whether some of the witnesses are talking with each other about their testimony. we're asking a member of the democratic leadership about that straight ahead in the show. we're also talking with a key republican, an ally of the president, and someone who helped lead what you could call a sit-in or a stunt depending on which side of the aisle you're
on. the lawmaker that led the charge literally into a secure room, delaying testimony from a top pentagon official protesting the process. what about the substance? we're learning this morning that president trump liked that whole thing after thanking republicans for having his back. >> these are warriors. these are people that fight with me all the time on the witch hunts. >> we've got our news team lined up with both ends of pennsylvania avenue and around the world with other big news today. garrett haake on capitol hill and kristen welker at the white house. garrett, the next phase of the impeachment investigation. you have new reporting about when this may go public which is what republicans have been demanding. >> yeah, that's right, hallie. leaders in both parties and chambers want to see this gir entire inquiry done by the end of the year if that's possible and that means things have to get out of the house and over to the senate. ideally in december. working backwards from there,
you're looking at november with a thanksgiving break, another break for lawmakers and you just start running out of days to get this done. what we know is there's another full week of closed door depositions still to come. there are depositions scheduled through next thursday. after that, we know that democrats want to try to move this into an open hearing process sooner rather than later. they would like to do open hearings in both the committees that are doing the investigating part of this intel, foreign relations and oversight, an then eventually you're going to have to do hearings in a judiciary committee to actually put pen to paper and mark down an article or more of impeachment. but you could poll 50 different people every couple hours up here on capitol hill and you would get different answers about when those open hearings can start. if republicans accomplished anything yesterday with their march into the scif, it was to get democrats talking more broadly about how and when they turn this into a public case against the president and move
past the investigative phase they maintain has to be done behind closed doors to keep its integrity. >> at the top of the show congressman matt gaetz will join us in a little bit who led that charge. i'm curious to talk with him on some of those points you're making. i want to ask you about something else an putting you on the spot i'm going to apologize but we're learning that lindsey graham, the senator a close ally of the president, at 3:00 this afternoon is introducing a resolution, he wants to call on the house to vote to formally introduce an impeachment inquiry. this seems to be another move by a republican ally to try to defend the president, garrett. can you tell us anything more about this or how you see this playing out politically here? >> i can only give you a little bit of informed speculation from having covered graham for as long as i have. this is someone who is close to the president and wants to keep that closeness and in doing so here on the impeachment issue, it's the kind of thing that might give him more latitude to
criticize the president on his foreign policy decisions of with i graham has been vocal in complaining about. i could see this move being not especially welcomed by graham's republican peers in the senate. >> right. >> over the last week or so senate republicans have tried even harder than we've seen previously to avoid taking questions on impeachment. they do not want to be pinned down, they do not want to be put on the record and don't want to be talking about the day-to-day developments happening on the other side of the capitol on the house side. there are a lot of republican senator who would prefer to keep their powder dry when it comes to being potentially, almost assuredly at this point, impeachment jurors. and to put your name on a resolution now saying anything about what the house is doing, calls that impartiality into question in a way i could foresee republican senators not being comfortable with. >> kristen welker, senator graham is still going to do it, right? the president is almost certainly going to like it. because he has wanted his gop allies to get tougher here, even
though at this point so much of the criticism from republicans is not on the substance as we talked about, is not on the alleged quid pro quo, it's on the process and how this is going down. >> i think that that is the key point here, hallie. the move that you just mapped out by senator graham fits into this broader strategy that we are seeing play out by the white house, by republicans on capitol hill. they are trying to fight this battle on process. that is how they're trying to win over the court of public opinion to say wait a minute, this has not been an open process. that's why you saw that tactic yesterday on capitol hill a delay tactic. important to point out eventually we anticipate and house democrats are signaling they are going to start to hold hearings out in the open, but yesterday was really an attempt to say wait a minute, we disagree with how this is being carried out. so stephanie grisham, white house press secretary on the airwaves today saying that the president liked what he saw.
>> i'm glad they did it. you know, again the dems have been doing everything behind closed doors and in secret and so it's about time that somebody made a very bold stand, which i guess is a sit-in, what he did and it was great and the point was well taken and i think that because now i'm hearing the dems have agreed in three weeks that they're going to open these up to the public. >> so hallie, a little bit of background here. we have seen past hearings that have at least in their initial phases started out behind closed doors. we saw that during the benghazi hearing, for example. so again, house democrats signaling that ultimately they will open up these hearings for public view. allies of the president say they are concerned to some extent about this strategy and want to see the president firing back on substance and why he disagrees with bill taylor's testimony. bill taylor, of course, earlier this week drawing a link between withholding that aid to ukraine and launching those
investigations into the president's political rivals. one more point, one ally making the argument to me it is critical right now that the president show discipline so that he isn't adding to the controversy. >> with one reality check on what stephanie grishp had to say, democrats have been saying for weeks they would make this public and do these public hearings, it was not related to the sort of move that you saw yesterday from those republican allies of the president. kristen and garrett, thanks to you both. i want to bring in somebody else having a busy day, congressman, democrat from michigan, a member of speaker pelosi's leadership team. it's great to have you back on the show. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> pick your poison on where you want to start. let me start with what congressman eric swalwell had to say this morning, there is some direct evidence that democrats have that key witnesses in this impeachment inquiry have been trying to talk to each other and that there is proof of this. is that accurate to your understanding? what's going on?
>> well, i've only heard those same reports. obviously whiithhold judgment until the facts come in. it's consistent with the way this administration has tried to avoid responsibility and manage the process. their loyalty, many of the people around the president, seem to be clearly to him and not to the constitution. i don't have any direct knowledge of that, but it is consistent with the way this administration has operated. >> you heard just a moment ago, i think, your you were probably plugged in, what the press secretary stephanie grisham had to say about what republicans did yesterday going into that secure room, delaying that witness testimony for a series of hours and drawing a link between that and the public hearings that democrats are hoping to move forward with. talk about the timeline. when do you hope to have these public hearings. is mid-november accurate and does it have anything to do with the republicans' move yesterday? >> first of all, it has nothing. the schedule will have nothing to do with the stunt that they
played yesterday. we've always been very public about the fact that the inquiry will go through a number of phases, the phase that we're in right now requires, you know, some discretion in order to make sure that process has integrity. by the way, it's a process that has included all of the relevant members of the committees, democrats and republicans in the process. >> 47 of them, yes. >> it's a stunt intended to introduce more chaos because they believe the more chaotic this thing looks, the less credibility the outcome will have. it's always been the plan, of course, to have pluublic hearin and do this work in a public fashion. it is my view we should move with some hayhaze. we are getting the information we need to proceed, i think others may need more, but we are at the point where i think the public's view of this being fairly well formed.
but what they did the other day, this was not some march on washington. this was a bunch following the orders of the person to whom they have the greatest allegiance, not their constituents, not the constitution, their greatest allegiance to a lawless president and they are going to pay a very heavy price, a long view of history will not treat them well. >> i'm curious to see what congressman matt gaetz your colleague on the other side of the aisle who led that charge has to say to me. i want to be clear, you're saying you think it is realistic to hold public hearings by mid-november if not sooner, am i understanding that correctly? >> that's my personal view and advocating for. >> okay. republican lawmakers are also sending this letter to chairman adam schiff of the intel committee talking about the whistleblower. this anonymous whistleblower who initially started this impeachment inquiry or triggered it at least, saying we're surprised by your announcement that the committees will not receive testimony from the
anonymous intelligence community employee whose complaint yishated the so-called impeachment inquiry. chairman schiff has not made that announcement. is the whistleblower not going to testify? has that decision been made? >> i don't know that that decision has been made. it's important again, to keep it clear, what they're trying to do is obfuscate the facts right in front of their faces. the whistleblower presented information which has been corroborated by all the testimony that we've seen and actually has been corroborated by the president of the united states himself. it may be an interesting question as to whether or not the whistleblower would testify, but the facts that the whistleblower put in front of the committee have been verified, have been corroborated. again, this is just another example of them trying to avoid having a conversation about the facts because the facts are bad for them. they want to have a discussion about the process. it's the only thing in the book
in law. if you can't argue the facts argue the process, pound on the table. in this case, storm the room. these are just tactics intended to make this place look chaotic so that the ultimate reality, the ultimate result will be somehow diminished. i don't think it will be but that's their goal. >> yeah. i mean, listen, again, this is something that democrats and republicans have been talking about for a couple days now. i want to before i let you go ask you about something else happening at the capitol in 20 minutes from now. of course the memorial service is beginning for your late colleague, congressman elijah cummings. i wonder if you could share a couple thoughts, the funeral tomorrow, president obama is set to speak, we understand. tell me what this day and moment means for you? >> it's a very sad moment. a week ago today we woke up to the news that elijah who was gone, and for most of us it's really personal. it's been interesting to me in talking to my colleagues, each one of us thought that we had this very close personal
relationship with elijah, just between he and us, and it turns out that was the case for all of us. it's a loss for the country but for me right now, it's a loss of a really good friend. >> congressman dan killty, you will be at the services. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. i want to bring in a veteran of the white house and state department, tara, who served as white house deputy communications director and undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs. two notable things we just heard. >> there's a lot. >> so number one, the timing of this, public hearings mid-november is like less than a month away if not sooner. do you think that's the right strategy for democrats here? >> i think they need to keep moving along. let's remember that the white house communication strategy here is very reactive now. day to day they make up something new. the acting chief of staff puts out a statement, he floats it, doesn't go well, retracts. the -- ambassador taylor speaks
it creates a lot of furor, the president pounds, the members -- you have to keep moving this along. >> you talk about pounding the table, congressman killty talked about pounding the table that's what republicans are doing because he says they don't have an argument to be made on substance. do you think that's fair and triggered the gop stunt or sit-in, whatever you want to call it? >> the substance is going to drive and eclipse the process here. bill taylor is someone i worked with. he worked for me actually at the u.s. institute of peace. americans are going to look or hear from bill taylor and they're going to say wow, this is really the american hero of the story. he's a straightforward, blunt, honest incredible man who gets sent to ukraine and sees this unbelievable chaos unfolding. >> quickly, john thune, the number two republican in the senate, said the pitting out of taylor's testimony is not a good
one. mitch mcconnell contradicted the president about a phone call the president said he had with him. do you see these small cracks as being potentially something that could grow into a bigger problem for the president? >> i think members are having a hard time on content now. and you can only pound process so long. >> yeah. >> ukraine is a friend of the united states. russia not so much. and until we get our head around the content i have a feeling the process will be a side show. >> tara, i appreciate you coming on. we have so much more to get to. another democrat who has appeared to qualify for next month's debate thanks to a poll that shows a wider than expected lead for somebody not named joe biden. we're putting the numbers into context next. plus the republican stream in, storming, sit-in, whatever you call it of a closed door deposition, making these headlines today. the man who literally led that charge, florida congressman matt gaetz who will be with us in a minute as we keep our eye on a
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corrupt president in our nation's history. when i called for his impeachment two years ago, washington insiders and every candidate for president said it was too soon. but i believed then, as i do now, that doing the right thing was more important than political calculations. and over eight million people agreed. we proved that there is no challenge that americans can't meet when we work together. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. come on! let's hide in the attic. no. in the basement. why can't we just get in the running car? are you crazy? let's hide behind the chainsaws. smart. yeah. ok. if you're in a horror movie, you make poor decisions. it's what you do. this was a good idea. shhhh. i'm being quiet. you're breathing on me! if you want to save fifteen percent
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if it's connected, it's protected. call, click, or visit a store today. the lineup for next month's democratic debate here on msnbc is getting bigger this morning with amy klobuchar becoming the ninth democrat to appear to make the cut hitting 3% in the new quinnipiac poll out this morning. that poll painting a different
picture of the race than some others we saw this week. this one with elizabeth warren leading joe biden with 28% support and news on both of those campaign fronts this morning. let's talk about it with msnbc national political correspondent steve kornacki, road warrior von hillard in new hampshire and mike memory with his reporting on the biden campaign. break down the poll numbers. why are they looking so different from what we've seen? >> we're in the pick your poll season i think of the democratic race, depending on which candidate you like we got a poll for you. you mentioned the brand new one out this morning, quinn nipiac, this is by far the most favorable to elizabeth warren that has come out since that debate. we should mention quinnipiac, warren has been consist will doing a little better in their polls than she has in some others. see her with a 7-point lead, the best she's done in a quinnipiac poll. sanders at 15%.
pete buttigieg 3%. klobuchar, 3%. >> this new quinnipiac poll with 24 hours before, the cnn poll, what did they find? 15-point lead they found for joe biden over warren. they had biden gaining significant ground off of that debate. again, sanders back there in double digits. when you get sort of a wildly different polls like this, best thing to do, average them all together. here is probably your best look at what the democratic race look likes right now. biden a couple weeks ago looked like warren was moving into a tie with him, more polls since then favorable to biden than warren. thus nearly a 7-point lead for biden nationally over elizabeth warren. you see bernie sanders, a lot of questions heading into that debate if his health scare was going to cause his poll numbers to drop. they look stable. you see buttigieg, he's been there in fourth for a while and
you see not in this poll average but the recent polls, the fact that klobuchar hitting 3% not a huge number, that is better than she's been doing and enough to put her in the debate. there does seem to be a small but significant bounce for her off those debates. >> so somebody we knew who was going to be in the debate is somebody you are in covering today on the road covering today, elizabeth warren. talk through what you're hearing from the senator's campaign related to where she is right now. >> the senator going to be on the campus of dar mouth college. when looking at the pom numbers steve was talking about, she is doing well among the population younger than 35 which is why she is here on this campus in new hampshire. recent polls out of new hampshire have kept her here at the top in this state specifically. i want to reference two conversations i had over the last 24 hours. one was with larry, just 25 miles down the road from here
who i met this summer and called him up last night and said where do you find yourself right now, he is looking right now at standing behind joe biden. he said he was formerly a republican voter and he said that what joe biden has proved over this last month is resolve, an ability to take on donald trump. at the same time here on the campus, there is a student here liam davidson, a senior history student, i asked him about larry's comments and also the biden campaign's view that joe biden has been able to show that resolve over the last month and would be that what you would call electable candidate against donald trump and liam, the student on campus, told me that what his conversations inside the classroom are, along with friends off campus, are about a big picture, more than just going against donald trump. donald trump is a system of american history and that folks need to focus on candidates like elizabeth warren and what he said was big structural change which is that message that we'll expect to hear from elizabeth warren on campus this yooaftern.
>> one of the things we have not seen from senator warren is any comment on new reporting about allies of the former vice president joe biden pushing apparently to try to form a super pac. we've heard from senator bernie sanders on that. criticizing that move, of course, given his focus on building grassroots support. i understand you have new reporting specifically on joe biden, this money game, where these advisors are. what do you got? >> hallie, this is so interesting because before joe biden even got into the race he said he would not allow, endorse, encourage any outside allies to create a super pac. and in the earliest days of his campaign when he launched when with some unknown democrat strategist filed paperwork to form one they pushed back saying they would not embrace super pac funding in this race. that's a litmus test as you see from the pushback from bernie sanders and his campaign. what i'm sensing in talking to biden allies and the biden campaign is a softening in that
position. i think that's rooted in the real concern you see that he's spending a lot more time now on the campaign trail doing these big money events evens as his fundraising has trailed off. they see the money coming at them not just from other democrats but the trump campaign and there's concern and doing the due diligence to make sure they can be prepared in the general election. biden world is a big universe and it's unclear who might be point person on this but a lot of allies out there who would be in position to help biden with an outside effort like this should they give the green light. >> does seem like it would make him vulnerable for criticism from bernie sanders, elizabeth warren and others. >> yeah. >> mike, von, and steve, appreciate you being with us. thank you all. check out steve's new podcast, article ii inside impeachment, our friend of the show takes a deep dive into bill taylor's deposition talking about whether what we learned from the opening statement supports the theory of quid pro quo. listen and subscribe for free
wherever you get your podcasts. coming up, more on television on this show, including congressman matt gaetz, the man who led that gop disruption of the deposition yesterday, on what they accomplished, live from florida. we'll have more on congress saying goodbye to one of the democratic party's most influential figures. remembering congressman elijah cummings next. man elijah cummings next. i thought i was managing my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. but i realized something was missing... me. the thought of my symptoms returning was keeping me from being there for the people and things i love most. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira can help get, and keep, uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts so you could experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.
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you are looking on the other side of your screen live pictures from capitol hill with the tribute to the late congressman elijah cummings set to start any minute now. we are watching for the hearse to arrive soon. he will become the first ever african-american to receive the honor of lying in state. rosa parks laid in honor that's a different designation since they're civilians. i want to bring in nick, member of the maryland house of delegates and friend of the congressman's. thank you for joining us on what i know is a difficult day for you. >> yes, hallie, thanks for bringing us on. >> tell me a little bit about your relationship with cummings?
he was a giant especially in baltimore for people there and how he made a difference in your life? >> well, the congressman, he's just a special person. i mean many people are coming out talking about him as a friend, him as a mentor, him as an adviser and it's true. i mean he was -- he literally embodied the name elijah, a person who was bigger than his seat. he never took himself serious, never took the seat to his head. i constantly say that he wasn't for the people, he was the people. i mean you walk around baltimore city with congressman elijah cummings, no matter the demographics, folks would come over and be admired by who he was and what he meant for the city. it's a huge loss for me personally, for the city, for the nation, for the world. >> the remembrances at the capitol are today and again, he is set to lie in state today.
tomorrow is the funeral service in which we have learned will be hearing from former presidents obama and clinton, house speaker nancy pelosi among others. what do you expect the message, particularly from president obama to be about congressman couplings? wh -- cummings? what are you listening for? >> he literally embodied and epitomized what it means for public service. for someone with a tremendous amount of gifts, to give of themselves, to better the public in ensuring we have a more perfect democracy, and right now in our country, what we're up against in washington, d.c., what we know his last fights were, his last actions on the job were, i think that it's going to be a resounding message to say, elijah, well done, but more importantly, to all of his mentorees and colleagues for the
nation it's critical to ensure his fight will never die in vain and that's going to be the resounding message that you hear from the likes of former presidents clinton and obama. >> nick mosby, member
of the maryland house of delegates, friend of elijah cummings, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. we're going to keep an eye on the events unfolding at the capitol and watching everything else happening at the capitol including this morning the "new york times" editorial board asking this question. why did republicans storm it? here's one possible answer from our nbc news first read team because the gop is running on empty. our political unit writing, if you want to know why house republicans decided wednesday to disrupt the deposition into the impeachment inquiry, it's probably because president trump and the gop are running out of defenses. here's congresswoman jackie speier. >> what happened yesterday was a high school prank by a bunch of 50-year-old white men. the republicans are whining
because the president is whining and frankly i think they did what they did yesterday because the president was whining that they weren't fighting for him hard enough. >> the president liked the whole thing. watch this. >> i think they showed
full support for the president. he was happy to see it happen. he was very supportive of it, as he should be. >> republican who led that charge is joining me florida congressman matt gaetz sits on the judiciary and armed services committee and joining us from florida. great to have you back on the show, thank you. >> thanks, hallie. my ifb wasn't clear. did jackie speier identify my race and gender in the context of my activities as a member of congress yesterday? >> i think you heard her sound bite. way tonight give you the chance to respond. go ahead. >> no. did she say we were a bunch of white men? what does the fact that we are white men have to do with our desire to represent the millions of constituents we serve. i was deeply offended. when jackie speier walks in i don't say a white woman comes
in. this is the type of identity politics from the left that seems to permeate any substantive or procedural arguments they make and it's sickening to me that's how we would be thought of. people we serve are diverse and it's just really kind of sickening. >> let me talk about the substantive piece of it then. there are two pieces of this. by the way, congressman, i want to talk about turkey and syria so i will ask you to leave me time for that in this discussion -- >> start with that. what are your thoughts on turkey and syria. >> we tease you, we started on this conversation on the idea that republicans walked into this secure area of the capitol yesterday, including some republicans who could have just gone in and participated as members of those committees as the rules allowed. what was the point of this? was this really anything more than a stunt? >> the point 20to highlight the true due process and inequities damaging the congress and the institution of the presidency. i don't think democrats have answered the question yet, why is donald trump getting less due
process than president clinton got or that richard nixon got. that was our objective. i'm on the judiciary committee where chairman nadler -- >> but we're showing a picture, i don't know if you can see a return, some of the members of congress walking in, your republican colleagues, who could be in the room anyway, 47 are on the committees able to go in and participate on depositions and many have participated in nie i depositions. >> i'm speaking for myself. i tried to go in last week as a member of the judiciary committee and that's a reasonable thing to do, on september 12th, jerry nadler, chairman of the judiciary committee, said i am hereby launching the impeachment inquiry, the impeachment investigation. so i think the bizarre element here is that you would exclude members of the committee that launched the impeachment inquiry from the factual development that adam schiff is trying to do in secret, aided by selective leaks and then misrepresentations about the whistleblower, his contact with the whistleblower, and the transcript from president trump and president zelensky. i think that's why we were trying to get in there, but like
i open speak for myself. i should be allowed in that room as a member of the judiciary committee, armed services committee and they wouldn't let us in. it begs the question what are they hiding. >> you're speaking for yourself. you are a member of judiciary and armed services. none of those committees are conducting these depositions. it's intel -- >> i don't know that. i don't know that. no. >> it is a fact. >> it's not a fact. go back and look at the 12th hearing of the judiciary committee. you cannot misstate that as a fact. how can you tell me it's a fact that my committee is not involved when it was the judiciary committee who launched the investigation. >> you have not subpoenaed these individuals for a deposition. that is a fact. >> no. you're shifting ground now. right. first you say we're not involved and then you say we didn't issue the subpoenas. those are two different things. we are involved because our chairman launched the inquiry. that is a fact. >> sure. i want to let you have your say here but i want to find out why you think the rules do not apply to you as they're laid out, to you, congressman gaetz. >> the rules -- oh, i do think the rules apply to all of us but the rules would typically
require the speaker of the house -- i shouldn't say the rules, the precedent that was applied to president clinton and president nixon, would necessitate some articulation of the rules so we have an understanding of what the due process requirements will be. we see democrats now sacrificing due process on the altar of their hatred for donald trump. >> i'm not asking about -- >> that should -- all americans. >> i'm not asking about precedent. i'm asking about the rules. >> that's really important. >> why do you think you're above that? this is the point of why you went in the scif. >> i'm not above the rules but when the judiciary committee chairman launches the inquiry, when the speaker of the house won't adopt rules, then it creates an environment where the democrats just sort of make it up as they go along. let's kick some committees out, let some committees in. it's all because they want to reshuffle the legislative deck because they're humiliated that they lost the russia investigation unequivocally with the american people, adam schiff lied to the american people when he said he had more than circumstantial evidence that president trump was engaged in a
criminal conspiracy with russia and this is a way to take some folks on the judiciary committee like myself, like andy biggs, out of the next hand because we were effective in making the case that democrats were overstating the facts. >> you are very clear, congressman, you are unhappy with the process and it should be noted that the judiciary committee has not actually subpoenaed these witnesses to be deposed. >> we launched the inquiry. >> but about the substance of this, congressman, because i haven't heard you say anything since bill taylor testified yes or no, is it okay for any politician to trade military aid for political favors? >> look, i'm not going to get into the specifics of the taylor deposition because i wasn't present for it. >> i'm asking what is -- >> you are. the lead into your question i want to talk about bill taylor's deposition. >> sure. >> when we don't have the benefit -- >> the question do you think it's appropriate it. >> of the questions asked. i do not believe it would be appropriate for any politician to link military aid to a assistance in a future election. no. i don't think that's what the president did. >> why not. >> i think the president was right to follow up on the work of bill barr to try to identify
the corrupt origins of the russia investigation. it was a ukraine court that ruled that the ukraine imper miserably interfered in the u.s. election and that is a sufficient basis for the president to ask for cooperation with the attorney general on that matter. >> so a couple things on that. i'm going to ask my control room to give me more time, i want to make sure we get to foreign policy put what you are saying is significant not about the piece or ukraine in 2016, because that is not a proven theory -- >> wait in the crane. you just keep blowing through these things like they're facts but they're not. just stop mischaracterizing stuff. i have to fact check you in real time. >> i want to be clear you said it would not be appropriate for anybody to trade military aid for help in a future political election. >> yes. >> it appears from the testimony that we have seen reported publicly from the witnesses here -- >> from the selective witnesses provided by adam schiff that aren't subject to cross-examination. like you're playing the game
here. you're playing the game where they selectively leak stuff that is not subject to cross-examination. >> okay. >> rigorous review. check against documents and timelines. by the way, when they had to do this in the open in the russia investigation, with mueller, with lewandowski, democrats looked terrible. now they're trying to do things in secret so we can have interviews so you can cherry pick elements of leaked testimony and ask me about them when i wasn't in there, you didn't see the testimony, and more importantly we're unable to see how those statements hold up against cross-examination so the substance analysis is very difficult if we're not able to have some standardized due process that is prediblgtsble and provides clarity. >> did you get a chance to see bill taylor's opening statement that was released? do you think he made that up? >> i would love to have the chance to cross examine taylor on those claims or even to observe my colleagues cross coming taylor. but this is the new adam schiff strategy. >> your colleagues can cross examine him. your republican colleagues have been in the room. >> i don't have the questions and sneens you don't trust your
republicans on these committees? >> i want to see the consequence of their work right. it's not -- they put out their opening statement we engage in cross-examination, you want to ask me about the opening, but i don't have the benefit of the cross-examination to be able to test the allegations made in the opening statement. and that is all by design. it is not an accident that you and i are having this interview on terms that are very favorable to the adam schiff theory of the case because when john ratcliffe asked questions that i think poke holes in the allegations that taylor made, we don't get the benefit of those. they weren't leaked and they weren't in front of the american people and that's the problem. >> i want to get to turkey and syria as i have said repeatedly. we'll turn to that. the democrats as congressman kildee said on the show, i know you didn't hear it, they plan to hold the hearings in a matter of weeks and i want to be clear about that for you and our viewers. >> i can't wait. >> i know you sit on the armed services committee and this is important to you. there have been significant developments in turkey and syria over the last several days.
president trump has lifted the sanctions on turkey. and i want to know, if you believe that was the appropriate or correct move given that we haven't seen significant action from turkey at this point on that cease-fire? do you think it was too early or the right way to go? >> i don't have the benefit of all of the insight the president does in making those decisions. i will say i do think there needs to be consequences for turkey's actions not just in syria but the desire to purchase the aircraft system from russia. in a lot of ways beyond just syria turkey is not acting like an ally of the united states of america and they should not get all of the benefits that allies get when they don't act like an ally. that doesn't mean that we should keep tens of americans between armies of tens of thousands who have been fighting one another since the end of world war ii and will likely be fighting each other for quite some time in the future. >> those are tough words for turkey. do you believe their presence as a part of nato should be reconsidered? >> yes, i do. i do believe that we need to rigorously review whether or not
we should commits u.s. service members to go and fight and die in the event that turkey is attacked when turkey is engaged in mischief beyond just their region. turkey is engaged in mischief in eastern europe and latin america. turkey is a destabilizing force in venezuela because they're taking a lot of gold out and using it to prop up the lira and then that becomes a way for the regime in venezuela to maintain power with turkish support. i think that in a variety of ways they aren't act like an ally and we should not continue to treat them that way. >> have you shared that perspective with the president and has he seemed open? >> i don't give read outs of my conversation with the president. the president is well aware of my views on turkey and the middle east broadly. >> i appreciate you spending time with us on the show as always. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> president trump talking about syria declares his policy there to be a big success. we're going live on the ground to the region. our richard engel is there. the rest of you aour team as we.
how permanent that cease-fire may be on the ground. a new investigation into commerce secretary wilbur ross. the national archives looking into his use of personal e-mails for official government business. in court filings the doj said the commerce department should not be required to search through the secretary's personal accounts even though searches found four accounts with 280 work related e-mail chains over a year and a half. as many as eight current and former trump administration officials have been reported to use personal e-mail at some point for business, including the president's daughter, her husband and senior adviser jared kushner as well. and save in more ways than one. for small prices,
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don't let another morning go by without asking your doctor about xeljanz xr. ♪ so moves in syria today after president trump's cease fire announcement. the one that we shared with you yesterday on this show. russia is beginning patrols in northern syria as part of a new agreement with turkey's president erdogan and shipping more manpower and military equipment there ahead of bigger plans in the works for next week. we heard from republican senator lindsey graham with this warning. >> russia, turkey, and syria cannot patrol this area. that's a death blow to the kurds. i told the president last night that the last people in the world that i trust to take care of the kurds would be turkey, russia, and assad. >> nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel is live in northern syria and
joining us now. richard, is your reporting fighting still happening near where you are? what can you tell us? >> so, this talk about a cease fire, that a cease-fire is in place and yesterday many lives. there's still fighting going on right now in three particular villages, close-up fighting with kurds, rifles to their shoulders firing, dragging away the wounded. we have picture of it. trying to get pictures out right now of people fleeing the area. there is still fighting going on right now to be clear. a lot of the fighting, and this is going to be something that's going to emerge and become more and more important as this conflict dlags on, and it is dragging on, and it will drag on, is the use by turkey of these semi official, semi-acknowledged radical militia groups. they're the ones doing a lot of the ground fighting, accused by the president's own envoy of
carrying out war crimes and atrocitie atrocities. a lot of these militias include former members of isis and al qaeda. you have nato, turkey, the country that the president just lifted sanctions on using former isis and al qaeda members to do ground fighting including atrocities, including u.s. officials in the trump administration say that look like war crimes as the sanctions are being lifted. >> richard, i think our coms are still okay. i want to ask you what you make of what you've heard from the president's republican allies on capitol hill, some of them defending him, some of them frankly concerned about where this is going. >> reporter: well, they should be concerned about where this is going, not just for the kurdish people who think that they are facing the ultimate betrayal, they allied with the united states, they fought, they lost 11,000 people, created an
autonomous zone, helped to defeat the isis caliphate, killed tens of thousands of isis members. in return they're being driven off their land and killed by turkish forces being occupied by the russians, seeing the assad regime return. they're facing a true disaster for their people, for their families. they absolutely should be concerned. but they should also be concerned about what this means for the rest of the world, how the world is seeing this. the world is seeing that the u.s. doesn't stick by its friends and vladimir putin comes in and he's telling the world he does stick by his friends, his word is his bond. he stuck with assad from the very beginning even when assad was accused around the world of using chemical weapons. that's what the world will see. >> richard, always a pleasure to have you on the show. thank you so much. a lot more to get to including congressman alexandria oh cac i don't cortez grilling
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you are looking live at the steps of the capitol here. the maroon dress is congressman elijah cummings wife maya. she's surrounded by his families, friends. as the shot begins to pull out, you may see the hearst carrying him. he will be taken to sanctuary hall for a private ceremony. he'll lie in state in the rotunda, the first african-american to receive that honor. a solemn morning on capitol hill today. it's also been quite a morning on capitol hill all week long, with a lot of action happening, not just with the impeachment inquiry but also on the tech front. that's because after weeks of private dinners and meetings with lawmakers, mark zuckerberg's charm offensive didn't seem to impress so much the house financial services committee. the facebook founder endured six hours, six, of questioning including this exchange with
congresswoman alexandria ocasio cortez that's gone a bit viral. check it out. >> would i be able to run advertisements on facebook targeting republicans in primaries saying they voted for the green new deal? if you're not fact checking political advertisements, i'm trying to understand the bounds. >> i think lying is bad. >> so you won't take down lies or you will take down lies? it's a pretty simple yes or no. >> jolene kent joins us from capitol hill. what are you hearing from your sources in and around facebook world, zuckerberg world. >> reporter: facebook world is very happy with how mark zuckerberg testified. they felt there was no missteps, he was relaxed and ready to go. he was able to answer questions for six hours. members of congress not so satisfied as you could see from representative ocasio-cortez. there's also questions about
whether or not facebook should be launching a cryptocurrency. the major news is that he would not launch libra, as it's called, unless all u.s. regulators are behind
it and sign off on it. looking ahead to the 2020 election, zuckerberg says facebook is better prepared. he says they're better prepared for the threats that are to come. again, those threats continue to evolve. yesterday definitely a checking the box. facebook now has testified here in congress for i believe about 17 hearings is what the team is saying at facebook. they're trying to answer questions. he's certainly not out of the woods yet, hallie. there's 47 state attorneys general who are going to be investigating facebook now for antitrust. so a long way to go forward for zuckerberg. >> jo ling kent, safe travels back home. >> thank you. >> thank you for joining us for another busy hour of msnbc live. happy to turn it over to chris jansing in new york. chris, i'm going to head over to
the white house and i'll see you from there later this afternoon. >> thanks so much. i'm chris jansing in for craig melvin at msnbc headquarters in new york. we begin with what you're seeing, a farewell to an icon. the casket of elijah cummings about to international statuary hall. he'll be the first african-american congressman to lie in state, bestowed on just a few dozen statesmen, military leaders and presidents throughout our country's history. a son of share croppers, a son of baltimore. cummings is being remembered for his decades of service. there we see the military honor guard. his casket will sit just 75 feet away from the statue of another civil rights icon, rosa parks, also mere steps away from the statue of former confederate president jefferson davis. that would stand as a stark reminder of our country's past and of congressman