tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 31, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
tonight on "all in." >> i'm asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> from michael cohen's testimony -- >> i am no longer your fixer, mr. trump. >> to the mueller report. >> the mueller report was great. >> to the impeachment hearings. >> they got caught. >> a year of damning evidence against a lawless president. >> impeachment for that? >> plus the henchman convicted. >> oh, my god, i'm busted. >> sent to prison. >> that's what he said and that's what i said. that is what our position is. >> and facing federal investigation. >> oh, wow. >> then a brand new house takes office amid the longest government shutdown in history. >> i am proud to shutdown the government. >> and the 2020 race for
president gets under way amid a global climate in crisis. >> how dare you. >> and "all in" starts right now. >> i want nothing. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. it's been quite a year in u.s. politics, one that began which saw three close allies of the president sent to prison and now ending with a historic impeachment. we also saw the rise of young activists focused on climate, gun safety, the arrival of a diverse and historic class of house democrats, and by the way one of the most uncertain democratic presidential primaries in a generation at least. we've got a lot to cover in the next hour. we begin tonight with the investigations into the president and his allies which could fill a whole show or week of shows by themselves. this year i know it was only this year but saw the release of the mueller report, prison sentences for michael cohen, paul manafort and roger
stone and most recently a criminal probe into trump lawyer rudy giuliani. not to mention the impeachment of an american president. joining me now to discuss maya wily, author of the forthcoming book break them up. and i want to start with the people in the president's orbit just who have pleaded to or gone to prison because of felonies. and i came up in chicago politics and it's like first like a donor gets nicked and maybe they turn or don't, and then like the chief of staff gets -- and before you know it the people around the corrupt politician are all pleading or going to jail. and then the politician goes down. and i've seen this play out numerous times with the corrupt. and it's amazing how just the basic fact of how many people in the president's orbit are in
prison didn't stand. >> this is crew he assembled himself. this is not a bunch of people who were working together and some corruption filtered out through them as they worked there. he picked them all. in 2016 the republican establishment saying no thanks to donald trump was sort of left picking up odd and ends where he could. this is what he got. and i think now some of that is coming home to roost and he ends up with people who lead down this path. >> i think he ends up with people who are going to walk the path with him. this is his m.o. i agree with you certainly on who he assembled and how. and we know paul manafort worked very hard to work for free for him in order to advance his own economic interests but this is the way donald trump operates and the way he's always operated and we also know he was dangling
pardons to people as they were being implicated or endanger of an indictment, and that is not something we typically see in the light of day when politicians are being implicated in crime. >> and we also know rick gates there was a monter offer from the defense fund which we think is a violation of law, it's sort of a gray area. but these patterns are not unfamiliar patterns to people who have studied corruption and crime in politics. >> no, i was really glad you brought up chicago or a look at oligarchic systems throughout the world. because sometimes we look at this and say oh, he's so original. it's actually really banal. this is corruption 101, self-dealing, surrounding yourself with people who will carry water, lying, confusion. confusion is definitely a friend of corrupt regimes.
what is different is that first of all we don't have a federal government investigating state level corruption. we instead have a president. and the tools we have to deal with a president who is as corrupt as these other regimes are really different, and we're still finding our way with these. >> this is such an important point because again to go back to this context. and it was sort of my first years reporting and it was when george ryan for instance went to prison in illinois, he was governor, right? what ends up happening in those situations is the feds come in, and there's this other authority there that has both a kind of like professional incentive and if you nab a corrupt politician, they're the ones that clean it up. it's not like the local prosecutors clean it up because they're too embedded in the system. that's precisely what the
prosecutors are there for. we don't have that situation here. >> i think one of the formative figures of this year once history looks back on it, it will be barr and what barr has done to shield president trump through the release of the mueller report. through the release of the inspector general's report. there are all these ways in which barr has acted as the opposite of the intents of a federal agent which i think is going to be very, very significant. >> i think where we are is we actually have to accept, we're so used to the federal government coming in and saving that we've kept looking for versions of that in mueller, in the impeachment investigation which i strongly support. but instead we have to understand that actually the tables are turned, and we should be looking to states, and actually i think the press is a little complicit in this is that the press should be asking questions about state a.g.s and what they are doing about local das, and we shouldn't wait until mueller comes out to say, hey,
the d.a. in manhattan, cy vance, are you doing your investigation? >> i think one of the things we're going to see is many states have been starting their investigations and they were starting them in the context of the mueller probe. we know the attorney general for new york had been cooperating with mueller and his probe, and they were certainly sharing information or at least it was suggested that they were. but i don't think there's any question -- we've seen already what the new york state attorney general has done with the corruption with his charity he used as a personal political piggy bank, and he's had to fork over a substantial fine, he's had to close the charity and he can't open another one, and by the way his children served on the board. so this is another instance in which is family is implicated. but this is the president who brought litigation saying there could be no criminal investigation of a sitting president. that is an astounding, astounding assertion. >> and to your point, those are both -- that's a state a.g.
who's closed down the foundation, it's a manhattan d.a. who's going to be for the supreme court. i also think part of what happens here and this is not a novel point, but just the sum total of news and scandal adds up. we're doing this show and people play this game all the time and it can be lame, but i'm going to do it anyway. if a woman wrote a first person essay in a prominent magazine in the third year of barack obama's tenure saying barack obama had raped her, that would be the end and that happened with donald trump this year with writing first person on the record not that it matters for her credibility, but saying that and writing first person on the record, saying that donald trump raped her in the dressing room and we covered it on the show and covered it for the bit, and
then it gets thrown into this maelstrom, thrown on the pile of trump's scandals. >> yeah. that's absolutely true, and i can't argue with that. i think one of the things i heard someone point out and i wish i could remember who, but it doesn't exist on the left in the same sort of churning machinery to keep these things elevated and all these things do fade-out on the right. and they're digging up every little tiny thing they possibly and they reev-elevate it and it gets on fox news. and that simply doesn't exist on the left. >> well, we also unfortunately have a country that voted where some people but a lot of people voted for donald trump despite the fact he had a public tape, an audio showing him talking about sexually assaulting women, and remember that's when all the
republicans started backing lindsey graham is not my candidate because everyone thought that was the line he couldn't cross except he crossed it, and that is astounding. >> i mean the scope of what trump has done both personally and using his power of the presidency and the extreme cruelty and inhumanity of it can be very overwhelming. >> and it starts to feel like -- it's the old saying about dog bites man it's not news, and at a certain point it's if the man keeps biting the dog that ceases to be news, too. at a certain point woman accuses president of sexual assault, it isn't almost in an empirical sense -- >> 19 women. >> it's not a novelty. we've got lots more to discuss including the man who puts his fealty to donald trump above his
complaining about the russia investigation last year donald trump reportedly lamented the fact he did not have an attorney general who would protect him above all else, asking officials, quote, where is my roy cohn. this year he got his wish. bill barr was sworn in as attorney general and quickly became clear he was there to protect the president no matter the cost. undercut his own department's inspector general. when the i.g. debunked a trump conspiracy theory and generally behaved far more like the president's personal lawyer than the nation's top law enforcement officer. phil, you mentioned this in the last segment it to me is one of the most consequential things to happen this year and one of the most worrying. deeply and profoundly which is the person who is the head of the nation's law enforcement apparatus is just not trustable as any independent arbiter of
good faith. >> oh, yeah, he's earned an impeachment inquiry, straight up and that's highly unusual in our system. but you don't have a situation where a cabinet member should be investigated for purposes of impeachment, but between all the things you listed and just going back to that whistle-blower complaint, right, it was so shocking to have an independent inspector general appointed by trump, by the way, doing that person's job and saying credible evidence, and this is urgent and it's under the banner of national security. and for barr to be somehow engaged and the incredible finding congress should not see the complaint even though there's no confidential information in it, by the way -- >> which is a finding the department of just helped find. >> and that on top of his spinning of the mueller report itself which was deeply troubling, then getting on an
airplane and flying around the globe to uncover dirt for the president's re-election as attorney general, shocking. and then in the ukraine example remember if donald trump held a legitimate concern about corruption going through the channels of law enforcement and letting the fbi do its independent apolitical job would have been the right tool. that's not anything william barr has done. and let's just add because i can't let this show go by without adding it his statement to the federal -- about policing, that is unacceptable. >> it was a law enforcement honor, prize where you give that speech. >> and barr has long been a troubling -- more than troubling, an awful authoritarian pro-incarceration
figure. but what he has done now is so beyond the pail that i agree we need impeachment investigation. and i hope congress investigates him. but also a real rethinking of the structure of power in the a.g.'s office and i remember this moment because it's actually so cheering how everybody was outraged. totally outraged. >> it's like you can't do that. >> you absolutely cannot politicize this, so i actually think that unfortunately this is an area where the norm has been so profoundly broken that we have to look towards 2021 and look towards the future and say we can't allow this kind of abuse to happen again because it so undermines the rule of law in this country. >> that's the great point about the role public opinion plays in sort of enforcing some of this, because right now that's sort of gone.
partly because i think 40% of the country will go along with whatever the president. there's one exception this year that's really important which is the president attempted in broad daylight to award himself an enormous multi-million dollar government contract. you said before how the corruption is banal, this it is the most banal corruption in the universe. awarding yourself or your family or cronies government contracts is like the lifeblood of corruption around the world and throughout the ages. and i love mick mulvaney coming out to announce this with this pretense there'd been an exhaustive process and they'd looked everywhere but the only place it would work was florida in the middle of summer. take a listen. >> and it became apparent at the end of that process dural was far and away the best place for this. i was talking to one of the advanced teams and they came back and they said you're not going to believe this but it's
almost like they built this facility to host this type of event. >> look, the remarkable thing about that moment of course is that mick mulvaney came out to make that announcement about dural and ended up confirming -- >> quid pro quo. >> i'm very curious yes there was an immediate and sharp reaction to dural, and i am curious if it happened in the context of ukraine would it have had the same response. i'm skeptical it wouldn't. >> there are these things called procurement laws and you can criminally violate them. and we have a president who apparently doesn't think he has to pay attention to any laws criminal or otherwise. he has always used his office in the three years he's been there to advance his business interests. it's called corruption, and he does it all the time. >> there's been over 2,000 instances of trump enriching himself. and there has been push back at
occasional moments. and i think what we should learn from that one is never stop speaking to the public about how corrupt this president is. and second, it's not going to work every time. >> right, he's stuffing his pockets, but this was so bald faced and i love that mick mulvaney that they -- it was so bald faced they had to have this theatrical architecture or pretense around it where they say we looked high and we looked low and looked east and looked west, and well the president's proper is where we should do it. thank you all so much for being here. that was great. once again this year has been one of the worst on record for the climate activists and actress jane fonda joins me to talk about the worldwide effort to change that next. e that next. can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. the queen sleep number 360 c4 smart bed is only $1299. plus 0% interest for 24 months on all beds. ends new year's day.
record. carbon emissions are up globally. the paris targets are being mixed. and the world is sliding towards catastrophic warming. the one source of good news is the vibrancy of the global climate movement which is also setting its own records and shifted the political conversation around the world. here in the u.s. climate protesters have taken to direct action on the capitol every friday this fall and winter. the woman who started this ritual is legendary actress jane fonda and she joins me here. good to have you here. >> nice to be here. >> will you tell me the origins of this action? >> it was over labor day weekend and i read naomi cline's new book that included descriptions of greta thunberg and what she was saying and lot of information about the green new deal. but greta, her being on the spectrum, her laser focus as a result of that, her saying nobody is behaving like they should in a crisis, our house is
on fire, come on, folks and get out of your comfort zones. and so i called up the head of green piece usa and i said i'm going to move to d.c. originally for a year and i thought i was going to camp out in front of the white house. discovered that was not legal. so with their advice we decided every friday i wanted to be like a teach in and focus on different aspects of the climate crisis, and he tried it with different experts and front line activists and celebrity friends. i had no idea in the beginning it would gain on and catch traction and i'm overwhelmed by the results. >> one thing i think is profoundly relatable and i know it's deeply concerning to you and many people is it's breaking out of the sense of paralysis or
doom and the sort of the house is on fire feeling. >> the doing something itself, what has that meant to you? >> it turns out my desire is like a whole lot of other people. in fact the yale scientists that studies these things who want to engage in civil disobedience but nobody's asked them, we're asking. there's something very profound when you align your body you feel very empowered and you feel integrated, and that's what happens when you engage in civil disobedience and risk getting arrested. more and more people are coming that have never done that before, and that's having a big affect on them and i think it
has to become the new norm. the scientists are saying and you know scientists are usually pretty neutral -- >> conservative in their pronouncements. >> that's right. and they're saying, folks, this is serious. the only way we can handle it is with unprecedented numbers in the streets pressuring the government. and when i met with the senate task force on climate change and i asked the senators is this -- is what i'm doing right, is there something else i should be doing, and the wonderful senator ed markey said you're building an army, make it big. they need that pressure from the outside. that's always what's changed history. it's what got the new deal pressuring franklin delano roosevelt back in the '30s during the great depression. >> do you feel like -- one question for me i think about the primary and think about the lay of the land particularly as the numbers come out about the
paris targets, there's low hanging fruit like get back in paris. actually we need like hundreds of billions of dollars in investment to transform the american economy. do you feel there's enough of a priority around climate being made among your folks that basically share your politics? >> yeah, i think -- i think that's why this is working. i think in the last year with all the bad news, the good news is that peoples awareness that, a, there's 100% agreement among the climate scientists and there's not two sides to this story. two, it's really, really bad. three, it is human cause. and four, we've got to do something about it. and so the scale of people who understand what's happening is way up. it's just what are they going to do, and i think people are ready to step up and do more. >> do you feel like you can imagine a universe in which we pass something like the green new deal, like some massive sort of generational defining piece
of legislation that really did spend trillions of dollars to reconfigure the american industrial base? >> yeah, it can definitely happen. the scientists say we have the technology, it can happen if we start right away. we can do what's needed in the next ten years which are the critical years. and the only thing that's in the way is the political will, and that's because the fossil fuel industry has spent so much money lobbying and paying for the campaigns with a lot of -- of the people in washington. but it can happen. recently over 500 environmental groups and labor groups issued a call to the next president asking them to in the first ten days of his or her administration take ten major climate actions that could move
us away from fossil fuel and jump start a green economy. >> how many weeks have you done this down -- >> since the beginning of october into september. >> and what is the actual experience of having the bracelets put on your back and the other people with you? >> it's very moving. as i said, you know, you just -- you just fall into your body and you feel as that you're a whole person. it's very hard for us to put our bodies where our values are, you know, in this day and age, so it's a very important experience. you know, i'm white and i'm famous, and there's good laws -- >> that you are, ms. fonda. >> they don't beat you up. >> sure. it's a very different experience than the rest than millions of others experience. >> but it's calling attention to it, and people are traveling from all over to come and be part of it, and they're asking to do it in their hometowns where they want to start fire drill friday.
and someone came from poland, and it's giving people something they want, and our job as citizens as this country not elected officials is to build pressure, build pressure so that by the election time and by the inauguration time whoever is elected we will be in the streets by the millions pressuring and demanding. >> you know, it's funny you talked about sort of laser focused and clearly this is something you're extremely focused onto the extent you're doing this, you moved to washington, d.c. and it's almost the case that the scale of the crisis requires almost a kind of pathology from us. it requires a compilation, requires us to act in a ways that are different than normal because the scale of the thing is abnormal. >> people are always asking me how is it different than it was in the '70s totally because this is global and this is immediate.
there's a ticking clock, and the locomotive is racing at us. and the scale of what we need to be done is so huge and different than anything i've experienced. it is existential. >> who are the people you meet? >> i don't know. i'll be arrested and there'll be a manicurist from delaware, on the other side an east immigrant who works in virginia. a buddhist woman from ashland, south carolina -- north carolina. just very, very different people. one time there were four rabbis and four nurses and it's very different each time and i met people i would have never have met otherwise, and i hear their stories and move on and plan and organize. >> planning is very important. jane fonda, it was such a great honor to have you here. thank you so much. >> thank you, chris, for having me. >> we'll be right back. >> we'll be right back let's be honest, every insurance company says
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2019 had the most diverse congress in history because of race, gender and ethnicity a thanks almost entirely to one party, the democrats. more than more than five members of the house and senate are serving for the first time in the country's history. there are more women in congress than ever before in history. meanwhile you've seen a rash of republican retirement announcements as they abandoned many of it its supposed ideological principles and
transformed fully into the class of trump am here to talk i'm joined by zerlina maxwell, msnbc contributor sam seeder, and a democratic strategist. i was on the hill on the first day of swearing in of the new class, and i have to say it's so striking then and has been striking throughout the year and really epitomizes something profound and deep about our politics in which there's one party generally a multiracial coalition. and when you look at the republican house members it is just white man after white man. i think this ends up being in a representational sense this fundamental truth right now of the way our politics are working. >> i think right now the republican party their numbers of women actually went down in the last election cycle, which is very shocking. so i think we're in a moment writ large in the country the
demographics are shifting to the point we're going to have a majority of not white people in this country. and that's going to be a very major deal of the way our politics are going, what candidates we support and it's not surprising we're seeing some diversity in the elected officials we actually have in the electorate. >> although one of things that's happened this year, one of the trends is for a long time even that diversity was not affected. there's been a gap in representatives in staffing. there's this huge gap between the actual make-up of the party and the professional political establishment. >> and aoc's primary challenges was probably the biggest example there's lots of minority majority districts still related by white incumbents in the democratic party. so there's a realignment happening where the base of the
party has been more diverse, has been more female than the top of the party in lots of ways. >> one place it hasn't quite penetrated is the staffing level because the staff still continue to be overrepresented and look more than the republican caucus. >> this is one of my major beefs in to 2016. there really september a pipeline of young staffs of color and it's not like a money making venture where if you don't come from money you can go work for less money or volunteer as an intern on a campaign. so most of the people that end up working as staffers come from families that can support them while they're doing a public service and working on a campaign. >> one of the things that flows from this is the democrats have a bigger tent. they just have a diverse coalition. that's the other fact of it, it's a harder thing to get all these people together across these lines with ethnicity and race and even class than it is
on the more and more homogenius side. >> it's interesting here quite a bit of conservatives talk about identity politics. and the fact of the matter is there's a lot more identities as it were and a lot more life experiences of people on the left broadly speaking than on right. to the extent we have one party really focused on a very narrow identity, it's the republican party just from a completely -- it's just math. it's interesting because i'm struck by chris coons who was at some type of event -- >> delaware. >> from delaware. who's talking about the polarization. and he in part said i think in history he's going to look back on the diversity we have and see that as part of the problem in terms of getting together. don't know how exactly he was characterizing that. it's an odd thing to say, but i think there is -- you know, part of what we see is there is when
you have people from different backgrounds and life experiences, people aren't going to agree on what's happening today. >> i think, though, we've had identity politics this whole time. >> of course, yes. >> it's just been white identity politics. and that's what we've been playing. we've been centering whiteness and maleness as essentially the only thing we cared about in politics. and this moment we're saying, okay, we're going to open up the doors a bit and talk about your experience is like as a woman, what policies people are putting forward that impact your experience whether or not you're rich or poor or black or white. and i think now we're actually opening the door and allowing people to consider your lived experience is very different depending upon the different aspects of your identity and the policy impacts you and that elected officials have to be accountable for the things they are deciding to do that impact your every day life. >> the question becomes how you and i know this is challenge the democratic party faces in this moment, is what is --
increasingly there's this very clear identity formed by trumpism. you see it in the base moments intensely with the maga hats and i am this thing, i wear a red hat -- >> it used to be white, chris. it's not a different hat. it's not a new thing -- >> i'm not saying it's new. it's very specific. obviously this identity of the confederate flag -- there's all sorts of identities over time, but the question of what's the identity on either side is more complex one. because if you want to build a majority coalition, what does that majority coalition say it is to bind together the 55% of the country that's not on that side? >> the thing that's different because of peak polarization, because the parties are so much more polarized is there's an overriding pump impetus to highlight the racial division and that's fundamentally very dangerous for multiracial
democracy anyway. and you have people like chris coons or heidi and there's a contradiction where this impulse from moderate democrats to not highlight -- >> because they're trying to get elected in places where they don't have enough votes to poll -- >> but then the issue the republican party, that's all they run on. >> i would say, though, our statewide race claire mccaskill does have some votes to poll upon. in louisiana, in baton rouge and new orleans, there was an uptick in those big cities that tipped the governors race. everyone is pointing to the switch in the suburb, but more black people also voted. and that's one for one. >> one of the answers there i think is always important and i'll get to you in a second is that better campaigns do better among different groups of people. we always sort of phrase it in
terms of these tradeoffs. if you do 2 points better cross a bunch of people, that adds up often to the margin. a better campaign, the tricky thing about politics is a better campaign has to do better among a lot of different groups. >> i think one of the arguments we're seeing on the left now is you need to have a candidate who's going to offer material benefits, right like actually starting to address issues of class in this country i think is a way in which to address those issues of having a multiracial, multiethnic sort of diverse coalition of people because ultimately there are some shared experiences that could have cost, you know, the pain of class in terms of material benefit that i think is shared by everybody, you know, based upon how much money -- >> there's one place we've seen that play out in precisely the races you talked about is an medicaid expansion. this year in red states louisiana, and kentucky, the one
very clear concrete distinguishing factor and again that does cut across i think lines of race and ethnicity is do you have medicaid expansion or not. and i think that was a wedge tool when you talk about the concrete policy for both the democrats in that race. >> look, when you're talking about medicaid you're talking about aging parents and making sure parents have a humane place to live, which is not the case in most places. but i think that's a universal experience, and so to your point about the experiences being linked, that is true. i do think, though, that we need to do a better job on the left of specifying that your racial identity can make your experience very different. it doesn't matter what class you are. so you can be a rich black person and nobody gets in trouble. so i think that we can do a better job of talking about that
nuance. but we're doing a much better job of at least embracing identity politics as a way to frame our discussion. >> the place this all culminates so we have the 2018 win, this very diverse class and these two gub gubernatorial victories and question of like someone's got to stitch this whole thing together. that's the big question. i want to talk about the historically diverse and vast field of democrats who decided to run for president this year right after this. sident this yer right after this
we have not even gotten to the first votes yet but it kind of feel like a different presidential primary has already lasted a lifetime. just consider what happened to senator kamala harris. she entered the race and was considered a front-runner, by december she dropped out. she was among part of the largest and most diverse presidential field in history. at one point there was nearly 30
democrats running. where do you think we are right now in this race as we come up on the first -- the sort of most important transitional phase or the sort of month run up to the first votes being cast? >> i think right now we're seeing the progressive versus moderate debate really hit the top where it is because of pete buttigieg, you know, tearing into elizabeth warren's prominence in the past two months and i think what you're going to start to see is this kind of progressive and moderate thing die down over concerns who can actually -- who voters feel can govern the country, and i think right now we've been in this debate for a long time about policy around medicare for all versus the public option. i don't think that's going to last and more it's going to be do you trust joe biden, pete buttigieg, bernie sanders and -- >> that's the point. it hadn't been a particularly ideological fight for a long time and then it's at its most ideological lanes of the race
right now. >> i agree. i've long thought the conversation we've been having, which the media was having a separate one, but among the voters we were like who do we want to send in the room to negotiate medicare for all? we don't know what's going to be in it. there's a lot of steps between now and actually a signed piece of legislation, but who do we trust? do we trust elizabeth warren versus a biden model? it's really about a set of values that we are sending a person into negotiate the ins and outs of the bill. so i do think there's not as much of a bickering if oh, you're for this, you're for that, you're selling out the left because you're not for the full medicare for all package. i think we're stepping away from that -- >> we haven't stepped away yet. >> no, the activists and the people that's what animates them every day, their focus on that i think people going every day knocking on doors and making calls are really focusing on the ultimate goal of defeating trump whether it be one of the individual candidates for
president on the democratic side. >> i suspect with the number of debates we have coming up into iowa and the diminished number of candidates that we're going to have that i don't think that that's quite over yet. i think we're going to see more broad strokes of maybe not necessarily the policy specifics, but i think we're going to start to see more broad strokes on the arguments against what someone like a biden or buttigieg is offering versus what sanders or warren is offering. and i think those broad strokes i think are going to dove tail into that question of who's going to offer the country something that is going to motivate people? >> i mean, part of to me is so strange about where the races ended up here, you've got two people with very strong ideological visions, elizabeth warren and bernie sanders and i
think they're associated with that ideological vision. mostly he's just joe biden, and he's been in politics over 40 years and has a record which you can like or dislike but it's not like a grand vision of bidenism. like what does that even mean? and you've got this newcomer and buttigieg is like this unwrapped christmas gift and he's holding this place of oh, look at that guy, people like a new thing and he's also made a very sharp -- >> a new man. >> i was going to say he's had a couple different ideologies. >> he's the one that's triggered this moment because his feint towards the center has been so sudden and clearly tactical in nature. >> the thing coming up is sometimes the ideological critiques are heard by voters as not ideological but the leaders themselves. and elizabeth warren it wasn't necessary the pall ses position but the way she answered the question. it wasn't necessarily busing and integration the issue but the way she flip-flopped and those are the issues i think ideology
becomes a vessel for. >> the thing about that is none of that seems to pertain to the front-runner. >> joe biden. >> but that's exactly the point. >> meaning he hasn't grown. >> meaning that old saying about strong and wrong type of thing. like i don't know that the substance of what people are saying broadly speaking and the way that meta narrative reaches a broad audience is as important as them speaking to a specific message and to a certain extent like you were saying when it came to warren on medicare for all, i don't think it was even the substance of the answer, the question it was really more that she ultimately felt she had to answer. in an era where you need to show you are convicted and even if people disagree maybe on the specifics of it that conviction --
>> but we've all forgotten about it, but the biden people had the hyde amendment thing where they literally just did a 180 degrees. they took a position, they got hammered for it, he came out clumsily retracted it. it was very early but there was a certain like biden has this thing where that doesn't count against him in the same way. >> i was going to make the point i do think we judge the men and women differently. it's seen as something about her character -- >> indecisive. >> and whether you can trust or and whether she is lying and not telling us the full story and she's hiding something about herself. and so i think that biden does give the -- it's not just unique to biden. i do think a piece of it is unique to biden, but i do think that piece of it is unique to biden. but i do think that men get a little bit more space to flip or to change their position, and it is not a complete attack on their character and integrity. >> the gender cross tabs on this
are really revealing. like head to head among women warren is even with biden against trump. head to head biden is, you know, plus 14 among men i think or plus 7 among men. and she's under water. you know what i mean? like there's something going on there. >> i just think we should acknowledge that and respect that that is happening. >> so the bigger question is what to do with that if that's a truth about general election electability which is thing that looms over all of this. >> if i knew how we could elect a woman i would have a lot more money. >> zerlina maxwell, thank you all. we'll be right back. right back. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, your plans can change in minutes. your head wants to do one thing, but your gut says, "not today." if your current treatment isn't working, ask your doctor about entyvio. entyvio acts specifically in the gi tract to prevent an excess
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all i wanted was to use your body wash and all i wanted was to have a body wash. if you find you have some travel time ahead of you like a long drive or cross-country flight or you're looking for something new to try out, we put out a bunch of great episodes of our podcast why is happening during the last year that are just waiting to be binged. there are some great primers on some issues that will be front and center in the 2020 primaries. you can find conversations that explore what a wealth tax would look like, what it takes to build a progressive majority. we dove into the legal fight for transgender rights, heard from a person who fled violence in his country to seek asylum in the united states and discussed the evolution of the black lives matter movement. so if you're new to with pod, scroll through our feed. find something that speaks to
you. we have brand new episodes every tuesday and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts. that is "all in" for this evening. we'll be back after the holidays and i hope you have a great one. good night. good evening. thanks for being with us this hour. all right, it has only happened six times in history. there have been six times that the republicans and the democrats have had their presidential nominating conventions in the same city in the same year. 1884 a former speaker of the house named james blaine was the republican nominee for president that year. his convention happened in june at chicago's lakefront interstate exposition building. the following month grover cleveland had his convention in chicago, too, from the competing party but they had the same convention venue, the same building by the lake where james blaine had had his convention just a few weeks earlier.