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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  June 8, 2020 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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congratulations. can't wait to hear more about what is ahead for you. i'm sure a lot of good stuff. i will be reading axios in a little bit, you can sign up at axios.com. "morning joe" starts now. >> the one word i have to use with respect to what he's doing before is a word i never would have used with any of the four presidents i worked for. he lies. he lies about things and he gets away with it because people will not hold him accountable. >> general colin powell with those words of condemnation for president donald trump. becoming the fourth chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to criticize the president's response to the protests. powelling going so far as to announce he'll be voting for joe biden in november. good morning welcome to "morning
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joe," it's monday, june 8th. we have jonathan lemire and kasie dc, and reverend al sharpton, and donny deutsch joins us as well. mika and willy will be back tomorrow. rev, let's start with you. why don't you start the week for us. large protests across the nation continue to grow and mainly peaceful protests and, of course, you have important events coming up in houston. tell us about it. >> there were many protests over the weekend and it seems as if the momentum and drive for police reform and social justice is growing and continuing. and they were mostly peaceful. almost 100% peaceful. some of the concerns are that we continue to stay focused on
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really getting legislation passed. there will be announcements today from members of congress on that, and frankly i've been concerned at ones i go to that we remember we're in a pandemic and to wear face mask and to try as best possible to deal with distancing. we want people to protest but we don't want people to become victimized by the pandemic. we don't want to remember that. and i think it's a testimony to their will and drive that they're coming out despite the danger. today, the family will meet privately with former vice president biden in houston. i will probably attend, along with attorney benjamin crump. i'll be in houston and then tomorrow the funeral services where pastor wright and i and others will give the eulogy, and
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he will be laid to rest this person who has become a symbol and in my opinion could lead to change. and i don't think anyone in the floyd family could have thought that he could have been used like this to make such a historic point, but he has. i think that history, in terms of policing, has changed because of what has happened to george floyd. >> and it's so widespread and rev we're going to show some polls in a little bit that shows again -- sorry for my viewers to go back to the same example, but it really did -- there was a moment in the 1960s that awak awakened white america and it was the bombing of the birmingham church and the killing of those little girls that shocked the consciousness of white america and moved the civil rights movement forward through that tragedy. you look at the poll numbers that are out and an overwhelming number of americans are not distracted by cultural wars,
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they are supporting these marches. they are supporting, despite the fact obviously they're concerned about violence, but with some of the people that are rioting, small number. but george floyd's death and actions of the police concern americans 59% to 27% more than the protests turning violent. and that's great to read polls, i got to tell you, i talked to so many people yesterday that -- we're talking about church services in conservative areas and areas i'm sure donald trump is going to sweep by large margins even if he's sitting at 42%, 43% in the polls, and they're talking about the need for dramatic change. george floyd's cruel death, the murder of george floyd over those nine and a half minutes
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was a tear in time for this history's 400 years in race relations, and for some reason -- and i say some reason because so many other heinous things have happened over the previous 400 years -- but there was something about that video and that killing that has stopped white americans in their track, as well as black americans, hispanic americans, asian-americans, all americans, to demand change. whether they're marching in the streets or whether they're sitting in their republican suburbs across america saying enough is enough. >> no, i think those of us that have been involved in this for years have tried to mull over what was different here because there has been other atrocities as bad. but i think a lot of it is we will never figure it out, some of it is that in the middle of
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this pandemic where most of the nation was sheltered down and people saw this eight minute video tape -- eight minute and 46 second, which why in my eulogy i had people stand for 8 minutes quietly and they said this is too long. and they began to realize how can you hold somebody down, your knee on their neck, for eight minutes and 46 seconds when one of us can't hold in that one position that long. and how can you not hold that accountable. i think this was too much while everyone was focused, no sports games on, joe, no distractions, people are focused saying this is happening and we have to do something about it and that's when change comes. that's why those that are looting or violent are getting in the way of real change because once we have the nation's focus, don't distract
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it with things that, in my opinion, are not positive for the family and for the cause of justice. it makes you become like the people you're fighting. >> and, of course, the family calling -- opposing any violence opposing any of the looting as well as are the civil rights leaders. the marches are continuing and for the most part very peaceful that includes washington d.c. where president trump yesterday ordered the national guard to withdraw from the capital, warning, quote, they can quickly return if needed. the president's move came a week after endless criticism of his threat to militarize his administration's response to the nationwide protest, which includes rebukes from inside the military establishment itself from more than half a dozen former flag officers included retired admiral william mcraven,
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trump's own former defense secretary james mattis, a retired army general that the president was enamored by in the administration early on, and three other former chairmans of the joint chiefs. and as we showed you, general colin powell yesterday became the fourth to condemn the response to those protests. >> we have a constitution. we have to follow that constitution. and the president has drifted away from it. so he has to agree with -- i agree with all of my former colleagues. remember, i've been out of the military now for 25 years, and so i'm watching them closely because they were all junior officers when i left. i'm proud of what they're doing. i'm proud they were willing to take the risk of speaking honesty and speaking truth to those that were not speaking truth. >> we have a military to fight our enemies, not our own people. and our military should never be
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called to fight our own people as enemies of the state. >> you know, jonathan lemire, the generals, the admirals, even the chairman of the joint chiefs belatedly all stood up for basic constitutional values, norms this past week. and here we are a week later, and i'm looking back and i think other people are looking back on june 1st, 2020 as a day, i said it i think the day after or maybe on the 3rd, that's the day that students at west point are going to be taught about for years to come. when the military was pulled into a political dispute, used
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as political props, and then quickly pulled back and corrected. but i thought, as mike mollins said yesterday, we have built our reputation up 45, 50 years after vietnam. we don't need to tear it back down by being used politically to go out in the streets and attack the president's opponents. >> joe, i think you're right. what happened monday -- you could feel it in the momentum it felt momentous when the military police were used to clear lafayette square across from the white house so the president could walk across it and stand in front of a church holding a bible for a photo op. it's been a week now and we're still feeling the aftershocks and certainly hearing these decorated lists of retired military officers speak out against it carries weight.
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now colin powell didn't support president trump last time either but he adds his voice to the people on both sides of the aisle who are saying flat out they believe this president is not out for the job and he has damaged the reputation of the military the way he tried to use it last monday and discussed further using it. my colleagues were told there was a meeting in the oval office last week where the president wanted 10,000 military in the streets to break up these protests, what he saw as rioters and looters and had to be talked out of it by secretary of defense esper and even attorney general barr councselled agains it at that time. we still don't totally know why
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the floyd moment is the one that had this global spread, but i think it's the occupant of the white house as part of it. there are a lot of people that said he added fuel to the fire. over the weekend in washington these were peaceful protests. last week people were running out of fear from federal law enforcement it almost felt like a block party this weekend, people were celebrating a cause. the mayor of washington d.c. had city crews paint black lives matter in huge letters on the streets there blocks from the white house. visible from the white house any time the president would look out and north. and then we had republican mitt romney the first to my knowledge to join the protests and speaking to the kacause and aligning with the cause, saying
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black lives matter. >> mitt romney did take to the streets there, the first republican to join thousands of people protesting george floyd's death. he marched with a group of evangelical christians and shared the photo on twitter. he said he was participating in those protests because he wanted to make sure that people understood that black lives matter. >> we need a voice against racism, many voices against racism and police brutality. we need to stand up and say black lives matter. >> and he shared a photo of his father, of course, who marched as well in the suburbs of detroit. here is a picture of my father participating in the civil rights march in detroit in the late 1960s, force alone will not eliminate riots, we must eliminate the problems from which they stem. here we are, 50 years later, and
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his son now having to march in the streets of washington for the simple proposition that black lives matter. talk about the impact of what's happening on the hill. obviously a lot of republicans sensitive to these former chairmen of the joint chiefs, who they've had close relationships with and great admiration for. you have mitt romney now who's openly broken with the president and his policy that the overwhelming majority of americans oppose. lisa murkowski now saying she's having trouble -- debating whether she's going to be able to support donald trump as well. the margins in the senate are getting awfully close if he loses the support completely of lisa murkowski, an independent who won after losing a republican primary there. it's not like she can't win as independent again, if she
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chooses to. >> those threats from president trump to get involved in her primary a little bit empty after she proved she can, and she has, lost one of those and m come back to win and still remains in the senate. joe, i want to sort of pause for a moment on the romney question, because, you know, there's a lot of things at work here, and, you know, you know mitt romney well and i think a lot of americans have come to know mitt romney as a different kind of politician than maybe they thought when the 2012 election was playing out. you know, i flew on the plane with romney, i covered his campaign day in and day out, and i remember struggling in conversations with editors or with people who would ask me what it was like to try to explain that mitt romney, the person, came across differently on tv and in the media than he did when you were able to see him in some of these more private moments. and i think that the country has gotten a series of opportunities
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to see what mitt romney, the man, is really like. and actually walking the walk yesterday, i mean, how many times have we accused republicans or have republicans been criticized for empty words, even those who were willing to speak out against the president seemed willing to say things but not necessarily do things and we saw mitt romney get up and do something. my question is, how does that contribute to the overall conversation about whether other republicans are now going to change the way that they're looking at this and actually do something. and for romney this comes from a place of deep principle, you saw the photoof george romney, he worked inside the housing department in that era to try to work on fair and equal housing. and one of romney's top staffers tweeted this may be about mitt romney -- while mitt romney's father is important to him, what you saw yesterday was the man
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that mitt romney is because of his father, george romney. these questions of character have been shunted to the side in the trump era. i think that this really represents, as the rev was saying, such a turning point. and, you know, perhaps it caught a lot of americans by surprise the depth and strength and seeming durability of the moment we're in right now. but all of our society, the businesses who are often more of the conservative actors, are embracing this movement. so i think this is a challenge for all of those republicans. as you point out, you know, if they miss this moment, i think there's a very real chance and this is starting to become a more real conversation behind the scenes, that they lose the senate come november and that, of course, would be a seismic shift in power. they've been betting to keep that they needed to stick with this president, that seems to be in the final months of the campaign potentially to be
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proven wrong. >> it certainly does seem that way for a growing number of americans. and about mitt romney, you know, senator romney has been a good friend for a long time, and even through the 2012 campaign where they didn't appreciate it, i know, when i could be tough on their campaign once in a while, but we've remained a good friend. but it is interesting that i've always said he was extraordinarily cautious and told him at times and told those closest to him at times that he was extraordinarily cautious whenever he had his sort of political uniform on. well, that caution is being thrown to the wind and at an extraordinarily important time in this nation's history. a majority of americans feel that the country is out of control. that's according to a new nbc news wall street journal poll. the poll, which was conducted
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during the aftermath of george floyd's death and as the u.s. surpassed over 100,000 coronavirus deaths found that 80% of americans believe america is out of control. only 15% say they think things are under control and almost six in ten voters say they are more concerned about the death of george floyd and the actions of the police than they are about the violence that is broken out at times during recent protests. broken down by party, that includes 81% of democrats, 59% of independents and 29% of republicans. the nbc poll also has joe biden over donald trump nationally. biden ahead by seven points, 49 to 42%. those numbers are unchanged since april. and among voters living in the top battleground state, joe biden is up eight points against the president, 50 to 42%. and more concerning for the
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trump campaign specifically continues to be michigan. a state that they've been worried about as jonathan lemire has reported from some time. in that state, president trump trails joe biden by 12 points in the battleground state of michigan and the newest epic mra poll. biden sits at 63% to donald trump's 41%. and among the independents who usually decide the michigan elections, joe biden leads donald trump by 40%, 63% to 23%. 2016, of course, president trump narrowly won michigan by less than one percentage point. donny, there are so many cross currents, the pandemic which has now killed twice as many people than died in combat in vietnam
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or during world war i and those numbers continue to grow and health officials fear the protests will cause the numbers to spike more, and then you have what happened on june the 1st in lafayette park. you and i and willie and mika and everybody on the show, we always talk about how it's early, and june is early. it's not march or april, but june still is early, because of the belief that things can change in a week's time in american politics. but some of those numbers, if you look inside, some of those numbers with women, with people in the suburbs, with independents, those numbers are hardening, and over three and a half years, not just over the past three weeks, and on the
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other side of it, these protests are engaging and energizing black americans in a way that the trump campaign was hoping joe biden could not. so it seems that, from both sides, the white suburbs that -- the educated voters, all of these women, all of these people that were running away from donald trump over the past three years, they were hoping that would be offset by getting 15, 20% of the black vote or depressing the black vote, right now, at least in early june, none of that seems likely or even plausible. >> you know, i want to go back, joe, to all of that. one number, 80% of the country thinks we're out of control. the concept of control is such an important thing that literally four out of five americans think we are out of control, the president is out of
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control. also i'm sure you'll get this later in a politico poll, just about 70% think we're seriously on the wrong track, those are stunning mondays whether you're in may, june, july. those are powerful numbers. everybody has been so worried about joe biden, is he the right guy? i think he's the perfect guy. he is comfort. we have a drunk driver, he's the designated driver to get us home. right now if i was going to use one word to describe the entire populace of this country, it's anxious. we are all anxious we watched last monday, that was the pin cal, we keep saying it cannot get any worse, trump cannot dig a deeper grave, he did last monday when he stepped up and said if you disagree with you, i'll dominate you, i'll have the military with my side and god is on my side also as he stood
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there with the upside down bible. in the future's betting market, on wall street where the market is betting, interestingly enough, trump is trailing by 7 points, the same number in all the national polls. so whatever me trick ymetric yo at trump is in trouble. and the trump people thinking what is our slogan, is it renewal, the comeback kid? you can't slogan your way out of this and that's a big problem for a guy who's built everything on sloganing. >> the problem is, again, the back-to-back crises, the pandemic crisis, once in a century health care crisis, and -- which most americans think he reacted poorly to according to the polls. and then the worst crisis, in terms of race relations and law
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enforcement in 50 years. also he's doing very badly in most polls there. along those lines, jonathan lemire, let's look at these numbers. a new cnn poll just crossing this morning, 55% of americans support joe biden in the general election matchup. only 41% support president trump. he's down 5 percentage points, joe biden is up 5 percentage points. but listen to these numbers, jonathan, who's best leading the country through crisis, joe biden 55%, donald trump 41%. who's best handling the coronavirus, joe biden 51%, donald trump 41%. and the critical question for white house staff to get their arms around that the president's cultural wars, the attacks against the marchers, the law and order approach where he's
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actually aping richard nixon and what he did in '68, 84% of americans say the protests are justified. 84%. saying the protests are justified. so these numbers, top-to-bottom, looking very bad for the president. do they have a plan moving forward to turn the page? >> they know they are facing extraordinarily electoral head winds, joe. my colleague zeke miller and i have a story coming out looking at this. the president's team knows they're losing. if the election were today, he'd lose. the events of the last couple months, the pandemic and then the national wave of protests
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was doing something that joe biden was struggling to do, excite portions of the base, particularly young people, for joe biden. we know young people don't always turn out to vote but if you look across the cities, anywhere from coast-to-coast over the last week or so, there are so many young people out there really pushing for this cause, believing in this cause. and if that energy democrats hope can translate to november, the white house and re-election team knows they're in trouble. the president, they are sort of scrambling for response. they are looking for new slogans, yes, but more than that they are looking for a new approach. they are going to go negative again on joe biden, according to our reporting. there's not much they can do to boost the president's numbers, they want to drag biden's down. expect attacks about china, hunter biden, his support for the crime bill, it remains unclear whether any of that will be effective. we saw on friday, which is a
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surprisingly good jobs number, the unemployment rate came down, i know there was questions about the specifics, but trump's team had an over the top victory lap for it, an event in the white house rose garden and so on, they commissioned a major ad buy to out the that. we'll hear more about that in the next week or so to hear the president as an economic steward to lead the comeback here. i want to flag one more thing, joe. the only thing on the white house schedule today we know he's having a meeting with law enforcement but it's unclear what the topic is going to be. certainly attorney general barr and others, it doesn't seem necessarily about police reform but rather getting a handle on the protests. that may be a moment the president may miss an opportunity to speak to those who throngs in the nation's streets.
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will they be able to change the tenor, have a meaningful dialogue with the protesters remains to be seen. >> you look at the cnn numbers here on the economy trump ahead of biden 51% to 46%. the coronavirus response biden 55, trump 41. leading in times of crisis biden 55%, trump 41%. race relelations 63% to 31%. reverend al, the question in the cnn poll, were the protests justified? are they justified? again, the response overwhelming 84% of americans are in support of those in the streets that are protesting for reform. >> when american people, or people in general, see the real issues, i think that they're inclined to do what is right,
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which is why many people that opposed a lot of the movements that we've been involved in, try to distract them from the core issue, the president of the united states, in my opinion, just is tone deaf and is really incapable of dealing with the reality outside of the bubble that he's built around him. he missed it with the pandemic, where he denied its impact until march and it was almost too late then, and really was too late to turn around a lot of the impact. and he's missed the fact that the people in this country and around the world saw an eight minute 46 second tape and that is in their minds. yes, they don't like the looting, but they saw the tape. he's meeting on how to dominate and suppress the reaction to the tape and never addressed the tape and never addressed the fact that some policemen, not
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all, not even most, but some policemen go overboard and that needs to be dealt with. he always misses the point and he will never, ever be effective until he addresses the point. >> reverend al as we go to break you bring up a great point we've been talking about for some time, why don't we end the segment once again putting -- you know, underlying and highlighting this. that most police officers do a great job and they focus on protecting and serving. but some do not. and some commit hay thus acts. and on the other side, the overwhelming majority of people in the streets are peaceful protesters, peaceful marchers, not using george floyd's death as an opportunity to riot or to
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steal. and i know in the media we tend to -- we tend to get the more extreme versions of both sides. but we do have a policing problem in america. we have had a policing problem in america. we need to address that policing problem in america. but with the recognition, as you said, rev, and i don't want to put words in your mouth again, but as you said, that the majority of police officers, law enforcement officers are doing their jobs. are protecting and serving. it is a smaller number, though, like a smaller number of protesters who unfortunately are giving a bad name to the larger group. >> you're not putting words in my mouth, those are the words we talked to each other in public and in private. i do not want the floyd family,
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garner family and others to be associated with the people who would use this opportunity to riot and loot stores because that's not who they are. at the same time, all police, policemen that go out every day to do their jobs, some at great risk to their lives, should not be painted as the people that would hold their knee to the neck of somebody for eight minutes and 46 seconds but they'll be held to that message until we deal with it in many a systemic way. just like we'll be held to the image of the worst that would exploit a peaceful and necessary movement unless we denounce them. and people on both sides have to be unapologetic saying that's not what i'm about and we are going to stand against it. and until the president and law enforcement stands against the bad actors on that side and we
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have leadership on our side we'll never be able to heal the nation because in order to heal you must identify where the injury is and the poison in the wound. >> still ahead on "morning joe," the washington d.c. mayor, muriel bowser joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. usaa was made for right now. and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance. because it's the right thing to do. we're also giving payment relief options
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>> america is coming back 3 million new jobs, lower unemployment rate, furloughed temporary layoffs going back to work. green chutes popping up everywhere, stocks are soaring, potus policies are working. stay with the winners, trump and pence and me. the best is yet to come. >> and the prices are insane! that's an old new york joke. donny deutsch, crazy eddie could
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get those aplipliances out the front door. you notice kudlow did not talk about the coronavirus because when he predicted they contained that over 100,000 people died. >> it's interesting you made the crazy eddie reference, he was a nutty sales person, our prices are insane. when i looked at that, i said what in this case oil is he selling? who is buying? i think what they have to remember is they are selling the stock market and the economy. we have the stock market at new highs. we need to remember, though, it's not indicative of what is going on in most of the country still at 15, 16, 17% unemployment. we'll see where those real numbers are. and you can't sell your way out of that. you know, there is -- you can't get up there, you can't huckster your way out of it.
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the economy is broken. social unrest, we are socially broken. we are broken from a health point of view. and that is not going to get you re-elected and larry kudlow, an old white guy out screening and preening, that is pathetic. >> i like larry. i've liked him a long time. i understand he's trying to cheerlead for the economy. i'm not as disturbed by him cheering for the economy as i was when he did for the coronavirus after 100,000 people died. we'll see if he gets people believing the economy has turned around but it's going to be a long recovery. let's bring in economic analyst steve ratner. steve, i want to talk about the stock market for a second.
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i haven't quite understood why the stock market has been up as high as it has been over the past month or so. i know it took a dip and then started to recover and then it occurred to me, this sounds cold and cynical and this thought i'm sure has never crossed your mind, but a lot of investors are looking at these companies and understanding they furloughed a lot of people and understand that a lot of people that had jobs in buildings, in brick and mortar buildings are not coming back after this pandemic is over. and so, you're going to have a lot of companies that are going to save a lot of money by not bringing back furloughed employees to the full extent. and so, the divide between wall street and main street probably even more extreme moving forward. >> yeah, i think one of the things we learned from the great
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financial crisis, it's a little hard to save people without saving companies because companies provide jobs. and so, we have done a lot that has helped companies in providing payroll support and things like that. but i think, look, the stock market is a mystery to everybody. but in my opinion, i think what's mostly driving the stock market is the enormous amount of liquidity the federal reserve pushed into the economy, lowering interest rates to zero and not giving alternatives. that's sort of what stocks seem to be at the moment perhaps unconnected to the actual fundamentals because i agree with donny, the economy is still really soft and by the way, not that it's relevant to this administration administration, i'm old enough to remember crazy eddie and he both went out of business and went to jail for tax evasion. >> that's true. we didn't want to bring that up.
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you have some charts. we'll move from crazy eddie and his legal problems to charts that could explain that unexpected jobs report number on friday and also i saw a couple of news items that said there was an under count and there has been an undercount of the unemployed for several months now. can you explain that as you're going through the charts? >> sure. let me try to put this in context. i think most of us did think unemployment was going to peak, if not in may or june or july we thought it was going to go higher at 20%. it appears to have peaked a bit earlier and a bit less, not quite as bad as we thought it would be. but the principle driver for that as we poured through the numbers is the effect of the government stimulus program. you can see the difference between how fast the government
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moved this time versus last time. if you look to the right side of the chart in the gray area, the number of days since the onset of the crisis. you can see how far into the crisis, almost 200 days, before congress did anything and more than 400 days before they really got going that got us to a total of a little under $2 trillion from the aid from congress' side of the equation. if you look on the left, in the orange/reddish color you can see we moved less than hyunda100 dad voted on $2 trillion going into the economy. much of it going to the ppp program to protect payrolls. and one other piece of this part of it is that the federal reserve has also been moving faster and harder than it did before, it put out $6 trillion in stimulus in almost no time relative to half of that the
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last time around and they're using a lot of the playbook from last time so they're able to learn lessons, move more aggressively. we put all this money into the economy. you can see evidence the payroll protection program, which everyone knows it provides some aid to small business, you can see what the impact of that is on certain jobs. you look at the biggest parts of the job creation, restaurants and bars, many of which is still not open, construction, dentists, laundry services, these are dominated by small business. i doubt that many americans were going to dentists last month but this money allowed dentists to provide eight weeks of payroll and get people back on the job. so this is the big push that made the economy reopen sooner than we thought took place. to your point about accounting, it's important to put the numbers in perspective as to what's going on out there. if you look at the bars on the
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right, these are the last five months but if you look at the bars on the right, you can see the dark blue, the 13.3% we saw in the news wires. the little gray bar above that is another 1.3% the bureau of labor statistics which produces these numbers says was missed due to a classification e error. gets you to 16.3%. and the people under employed. and people not working. if you add those numbers up for may, you get to 27.7%. which is a more realistic number of how many are unemployed. that is still down a little bit from april when it was 31.6% but if you go back to early in the year, including this broad measure of unemployment and
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underemployment we were more like 9%. we're still in a situation where 30 million americans, more than normal, 27% of the workforce is still under employed or out of work. >> steve, it's kasie hunt. as i'm listening to you walk through this, my question is what does this mean in terms of what's going to happen next in congress? there's been pressure to help states and local governments because there are potentially really significant job implications if those state budgets continue to bleed with laying off public sector workers, et cetera. that one chart you showed in particular that showed how fast they responded and how significant that was seems to underscore maybe there isn't an appetite to do any more, what's your take? >> yeah, this is the big issue, and there's been a tug of war going as you know, kasie,
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between the republicans and the white house and the democrats. the democrats think we need to do more, particularly for state and local governments which had massive job losses last month. but the republicans have been resisting. they feel like we've done enough, they have very strong reservations about more spending and they'd like to see some tax cuts for business. but this is going to change the debate a bit and put much more pressure, much more pressure on the democrats in terms of how hard they can push to get something and it's going to cause the republicans and the white house in particular, to be much more restrained about what they want to do. the irony of that, some of the benefits, the ppp, is eight weeks of payroll, that's going to run out soon. the increased unemployment insurance runs out at the end of july. and state and local governments are desperately needing more money so the good news it may
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slow down washington in terms of producing the additional legislation many of us think is necessary to keep the economy recovering and prevent it from sliding back. >> steve ratner, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. and your parting gifts rice-a-roni and a $100 gift certificate to crazy eddie and any stores in the tri-state area. have a great week. bye, steve. we have a long day. former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin is set to make his first court appearance today since being charged with the second degree murder of george floyd. the man recorded on memorial day kneeling on the neck of the 46-year-old unarmed black man until he was nonresponsive. he was first charged with third degree murder and second degree manslaughter. the other three officers involved in the fatal incident
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occurred in court on thursday and granted bail of $1 million. derek chauvin faces a second degree murder charge. joining us now is maya wiley and attorney dave aaronberg. the defense used by two police officers is they were rookies and just following orders. how will that play out in court? >> well, let's first start with the court of public opinion, which is there are no orders that say you can murder a man that you have in handcuffs laying prone on the street who has done nothing to endanger your life. so the call for this is going to be very sharp from the public standpoint. from the legal standpoint, the primary issue is are there facts
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to show they were really supporting what was happening. by supporting, there's specific kinds of evidence, like the fact that two of them were helping to -- literally to hold mr. floyd down. they were not just standing around wondering what to do, they were participating physically. and the second is the length of time and the fact that one of the officers goes and checks for a pulse, says he doesn't feel one, and officer chauvin's knee remains on george floyd's neck for two more minutes after no pulse, and not one of them takes action that is a staggering fact that says, you don't get to argue that being new on the force means you don't understand, having just come out of the police academy, that if someone doesn't have a pulse, if someone is in handcuffs laying face down on the ground and
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someone is on top of that person something has to happen differently and it's not enough to just say, i'm new here. >> dave, that is going to be their argument. they're going to say that chauvin was a training officer, they were rookies, they were just following orders, they were doing what they thought happened in the regular course of policing in minneapolis. but maya, of course, brings up the more important point that just because that's your status doesn't strip you of your humanity, doesn't strip you of common sense. doesn't strip you from the moral instinct to understand when a man is dieing you have a responsibility to intervene. >> joe, i agree with maya, it's not a great defense for these officers, but it is a defense because one of the elements of this aiding and abetting charge is that you intentionally assisted another in committing a
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crime. they're employing the sergeant schultz defense, we knew nothing. they're blaming officer chauvin. but there are flaws are the arguments, these are not green as they claim to be they were first hired in february of 2019. if they were brand new out of the academy they would know such conduct was impers permissible. officer lane said he said twice shall we roll him over? if i was the prosecutor i would say do you know why they expressed concerns? because they knew what officer chauvin was doing was wrong and they didn't give him medical assistance and kept on him for two minutes after he had no pulse. by the time the ambulance arrived it was essentially a
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hearse. there's plenty of evidence to aid and abet here. >> is there any reason for the prosecutors to make a deal if you were in this position would you make a deal with any of the arresting officers or do you have them so nailed on these charges that you don't need a deal? you've got the videotape. >> the prosecutors have all the cards here, joe. they don't need the testimony from these three other officers to convict officer chauvin, the video speaks for itself but pros cuters may want to avoid protracted litigation and may try to cut a deal but i believe all four officers will serve prison time. i think officer chauvin will serve more. the other three are being charged under the laws of principals, which says if you knowingly assist another with a crime you can be convicted with
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the same crimes. it's the getaway driver convicted in the bank robbery, even though he didn't put the gun to the teller's head. if they weren't in uniform, they'd look like a gang, you have two that were assisting, and one as a lookout to prevent by standers from assisting. >> maya, when you mentioned about public opinion if the prosecutor decides to make a deal against one of the other three to testify against chauvin, do you think the public would buy that since clearly two of them helped hold him down and none of them did anything to prevent that. wouldn't the prosecutor have to be concerned about public opinion would possibly be very much against them trying to give a deal to any one of them since the tape is there and shows what
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they all did or did not do? >> absolutely. i don't think there's any question. we have seen the kind of energy, the kind of commitment, the kind of anger, the kind of demand not just for accountability but for massive changes in policing in this country are not going to be satisfied if they feel that justice is not being done. i think prosecutors are going to take that into account in the sense that if, in fact, they don't need the cooperation, unless they come up with something that they feel so endangers the prosecution they're better off taking that kind of risk with the public's trust, then i think they will not make a deal. and i just want to say one thing about their case. this, in minnesota, which is i'm not not a minnesota law expert, but
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this is about showing intent for the aggravated assault, in other words what they were doing before george floyd dies that means they don't have to show their intent was to kill him. they have to show the intent was to assault him and it kept going. that's a different standard which also i think is going to keep pressure on prosecutors to show the public that prosecutors really will go hard against every police officer that violates someone's human rights because in the end that's what we're talking about. we're talking about human rights. >> all right. maya, thank you for being with us. we really appreciate it. dave aaronberg, thank you as well. reverend al let's talk about a theme coming up in the protests. you're hearing the term defund the police. in minneapolis they're talking about abolishing the police department. the minneapolis mayor was booed
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off the stage because he wouldn't say he was going to abolish the minneapolis police department. yet when i heard an interview yesterday of a city council woman from minneapolis she kept being pushed by the cnn reporter as to whether this meant abolishing the police department or reforming the police department. her nonanswer suggested that defunding the police is actually a code word for many people for reforming the police. what can you tell us from what you've heard with activists? in. >> that's what i've heard. i've heard they're really talking about adjusting and, in many ways, recommitting the funding toward things like community policing, like mental health, intervention that does not involve policing as we know it. and putting a lot into police training. i don't think that anyone, other than the far extremes are saying we don't want any kind of
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policing at all, any kind of public safety. it's to reberinterpret safety a ways to solve the problems in the areas i just outlined. i think the slogan may be misleading without interpretation. >> all right. thank you so much, rev. still ahead, according to one of our next guests it's not a question of whether we'll be seeing more covid cases it's a question of how many cases we'll see. dr. lina wynn says there will be a rise in infections. she joins us to talk about it when "morning joe" returns. and a new jonathan lemire article about panic in the white house regarding re-election efforts. "morning joe" returns.
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on monday you're saying they were projectiles. >> i am. >> three of my colleagues were there, they did not see projectiles thrown. >> i was there. i saw them. >> you believe what the park police did using tear gas and projectiles was appropriate? >> here's what the media is missing.
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there was not an operation to respond to that particular crowd. it was an operation to move the perimeter one block. >> and the methods they used were appropriate, is that what you're saying? >> when they resisted, yes. there was no tear gas moved. it was moved sunday when they had to clear eighth street to allow the fire department to save st. john's -- >> there were chemical irritants. >> no, there were not. pepper spray is not a chemical irritant. >> perp spray you're saying was used. >> pepper balls. >> that's attorney general william barr -- peaceful protesters outside the white house so the president could have a photo op holding up a bible. barr repeatedly asserted the actions by the police were appropriate. i thought it was interesting, he
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said they were forceful when met with resistance. you can ask the cameraman from australia who was sitting down and recording things who got bashed in the head and the reporter and several others, no. it was -- it was extreme. an extreme act of force. you also heard the attorney general argue that pepper spray is not a chemical agent but a 2009 justice department inspector's description of pepper spray and pepper balls does, in fact, label them chemical agents and the manufacturer of pepper balls advertises its product as the most effective chemical irritant. that's from the people who actually make it. welcome back to "morning joe,"
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it's monday, june the 8th. we have jonathan lemire, kasie hu hunt, paula thomas and robert costa. mika and willie will be back tomorrow. a majority of americans feel the country is spinning out of control according to a new nbc news wall street journal poll. as the u.s. passed 100,000 coronavirus deaths a percentage of americans said america is out of control, 80%. 15% say they feel things are under control. and almost 6 in 10 voters are more concerned about the death of george floyd and the actions of the police than any violence that may have broken out during recent protests. that includes 81% of democrats, 59% of independents and 29% of
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republicans. the nbc poll also has joe biden up over donald trump nationally. biden is ahead by seven points, 49% to donald trump's 42%. those numbers are unchanged since april and lower than other polls that have been coming out. among voters living in the top battleground states, joe biden is up eight points against the president, 50 to 42%. i think biden is up 12% in a recent michigan poll. joe biden also has a 14 point lead over the president and the new cnn ssrs poll, biden sits at 55% of support, up 4 point. while donald trump slides to 41%. a little over half the voters nationally say the president would be better to handle the economy, 51 to 46. but a majority believe that joe biden would handle the coronavirus response better 55 to 41%.
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leading america through crisis, biden wins begin, 55% to 41%. and race relations not even a close call, joe biden 63%, donald trump 31%. so idejonathan lemire, i also talked about the michigan poll. you've been saying for some time people inside the white house are concerned about michigan, they're afraid it may be slipping away and they have to refocus efforts elsewhere moving forward. he, of course, had a fight with the popular governor there, wouldn't even call her by her name, kept talking about that woman, promised to defund michigan later on when he didn't like a certain tweet that was -- or a certain thing that was going on regarding absentee mailing applications. and now, of course, you see these polls and joe biden just
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getting more and more strength, it seems, every week there. he's up 53% to 41% in michigan right now. which all of these -- all of these numbers -- oh, the independent numbers by the way, jonathan, are absolutely staggering, independents obviously make a huge difference in the state of michigan. but when it comes to independents, joe biden 63%, donald trump 23%. it's obviously right now -- it's only june, we still have several months to go, but you're reporting right now, an ap story you wrote that just dropped the white house obviously deeply concerned about the president's political prospects. what can you tell us? >> that's exactly right, joe. michigan is the most extreme example of this, they know he is down there, he is down big. they've almost written it off, not ready to pull the plug but
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they are pessimistic about the state in 2016 he won by the smallest problem. there are states a few months ago counting being reliably republican, ohio, georgia, maybe even texas where they're now concerned maybe not that they'll lose there, but they'll have to spend time and resources there, and, of course, there's a slew of battleground states where they are right now uniformly losing according to public polls and their own internal surveys that includes places like pennsylvania and wisconsin and florida and arizona. it is only the first week of june, we have a long time to go but they're desperately trying to find a new message. as we discussed last hour, there's going to be a ramping up of the attacks on joe biden, china, the allegations of corruption with hunter biden. try to make a play to the crime bill and all the events we've seen the last week or two, when
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the crime bill passed, the majority of the congressional black caucus also supported it, that's been the biden defense to that, as much as they believe things need to be amended and changed now. we saw the president try to seize on the good economic numbers friday, that seems to be the answers for everything. that's a risky proposition. we don't know the recovery is going to be a straight line. certainly if there are surges of the pandemic, there's a concern in the white house, we might have an uptick in cases or the predicted second wave this fall, most of those things would be a public health crisis but, of course, slow down the recovery. we know there are issues elsewhere, women voters, sur bu suburban voters in pennsylvania have slipped away from him. a there's an attempt to have a
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listening tour, they're forming a task force in the white house to try to talk about these issues. that has yet to get off the ground weeks into this crisis. and those voters probably are slipping away and we're seeing they're fearful of young and minority voters now that much more excited to vote for joe biden in the aftermath of the pandemic and the national protests. >> there was a problem with -- for biden, there was -- the trump people believed there was a problem they exploited with hillary clinton, with hillary they spent a lot of money trying to depress black turnout and, in fact, african-american turnout in the 2016 election was the lowest -- it went down i think for the first time in 20 years. and you heard from trump surrogates over the past several years that they believed they were going to get 15%, 20% of the black vote, mainly because of black men.
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those numbers obviously now collapsing and, of course, black voters most likely will be energized in a way over these protests in a way they would have never been energized just by joe biden's candidacy. >> yeah, it's a little bit laughable that maybe they thought they could get 15 to 20% of the black vote, even historically over the last decades of how black voters tend to turn out and a lot of hillary clinton's problem was a depression in black voter turn out in michigan, pennsylvania and florida. i think an interesting thing in the poll numbers for me is when you compare 80% of the country think things are out of control, versus trump's very, very steady approval ratings. but when i look at that, because his approval ratings haven't changed that much, i don't know how 80% of the country being out of control translates to him being able to move the needle beyond where he is.
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and that has to be troubling for the administration. that has to be troubling for his campaign. as well as, you know, i think we have seen reporting that he's going to make some kind of speech about race this week. and you have to wonder who is advising him on that? what is he going to say? do they think that will help calm people? i will definitely be watching, but i'm a little bit worried for him on that one. >> and peggy nunan's latest piece for "the wall street journal" talks about why trump's supporters should be worried about anything he does during this time. it's entitled "so some things americans can agree". she writes, this week trump altered his position in the political landscape. something broke. he's no longer the force he was
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and no longer lucky in some new and indelible way. his essential nature was revealed. he gave up the game and explicitty patronized his own followers. it was as if he was saying, i'm going to show you how stupid i know you are. i'll give you crude and gross imagery and you'll love it because you're crude and gross people and peggy then writes, some would love it but not all. not most, i think. he has maxed out his base. he's got his 40% and he will keep it but it is not growing. his polls are down. he has historically high negatives. as for suburban women, they will crawl over broken husbands to vote him out. he is proud of his many billionaire friends and think they love him, they don't. their support is utterly
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transactional, they're embarrassed by him. when they begin to think he won't be releeelecreelected, th turn. this will not end well. with his timing he'd know it. he should give an oval office address announcing he's leaving, america, you don't deserve me trump should say. truer words have never been spoken in this that old place. bob costa, obviously the low point of the trump presidency politically. what are your thoughts? peggy, focussing again as i think a lot of people focussing on what happened on june the 1st, and how it did substantially alter the trump presidency. this weekend we had top military officials, military heroes coming out criticizing him for what he did on june the 1st going across the street, holding
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up the bible, op-ed people talked about how cynical it was, christians talked about how unchrist-like it was. you look at his support among white catholics, that's plummeted. what's the state of mind inside the white house right now? what do they do for their next act? where do they go next? >> inside the white house there's a belief that what has happened in recent weeks is not going to fundamentally change the president's relationship with his own political base. in fact, to peggy's point, they believe he's only going deeper and this is not some kind of revolution that's going to change minds. if you think about president trump, joe, you've tracked him as well as anyone, this is not new behavior from president trump, this is someone who took out an ad on the central park five, this is someone who in 2011 and 2012 was questioning
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president obama's credentials, he was one of the birther movement figures and ran for the republican nomination in 2016, launching his campaign with racially incendiary rhetoric, talking about immigration, and yes, the walk across lafayette squares, for some it was a bridge too far but there are many, many bridges in this story of america and president trump and his relationship with the republican party. and at this point, with all these norms being shattered, based on my reporting, which is not a white house living in fear, it is a white house that is plunging ahead. >> and that means, bob, doubling down? doubling down on a law and order issue when you look, again, 84% of americans say these protests are justified, almost 60% of americans are far more concerned with what happened to george floyd and police brutality than they are with any violence
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that's occurred in these protests. he's going to just double down and continue his sort of nixon-ian law and order pitch? >> here's what i heard over the weekend, is that he's going to try to paint the democratic party to what reverend sharpton was talking about, the phrase defund the police and how that phrase is interpreted by some voters. the republican party is prepared to define the democrats on their own terms and the republicans' own term with that phrase and defining it in a republican way rather than a constructive term on policing and approaching a debate on how police departments are formed. when it comes to outreach to the african-american community he's going to continue to tout the economy as a way of saying to african-american voters and voters of color he offers them some kind of hope.
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that's the message and strategy from the white house. as one official put it to me, it's going to be a hot summer that they'll be pushing back at all the critics and using this law and order language as they make the talking about that mar across lafayette square going to the church and holding that bible up awkwardly, as peggy nuna said she's never seen in history. and republican james langford said he read the bible every day and never saw anyone holding it that way. peggy saying donald trump thought his supporters were too stupid to see through his stunt apparently they aren't and they are seeing through his stunt and also very concerned with what they're seeing. president trump's favorability
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rating among white evangelical prote protestants down 15%. among white main line protestants down 11 points. holding the same with nonwhite proper pr proat the stans down holding the same. and the religiously unaffiliated down 2 percentage points. so since march, mike, donald trump's numbers are collapsed, especially among catholics. and that, obviously -- that's how he won wisconsin, how he won michigan in part, that's how he won pennsylvania, that helped him in florida. it seems if you're inside the trump white house, there are too many fronts right now to shore up, everywhere you look, the
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president is losing a great deal of support. >> you know, joe, we hear this from various people throughout the course of the day and calling people in washington, people you know, people i know. but to hear, you know, jonathan and robert reiterate their reporting about the internals of the white house and what they think about michigan and pennsylvania and the president's slipping poll numbers is really staggering to think about it. it's an extraordinary combination of deafness and incompetence within the white house. they're seeking a new message what would the new message be after this turmoil, after the eruption in the country? would it be i'm actually a human being, i don't think they can get away with this. there is a cultural movement in this country that has changed the country considerably, maybe hopefully forever, and it has to do, and you and reverend al were talk about it in the earlier
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hour. eight minutes and 46 seconds on a street corner in minneapolis, minnesota. eight minutes and 46 seconds. for years many on the conservative side of the law and order issues have said, i wish we had public viewing of executions so people could know what it's like to break the law, to be heinous and convicted and sentenced to death. well, for eight minutes and 46 seconds this country saw, first time ever, a public execution. george floyd was executed on a sidewalk, a street corner in minneapolis, minnesota. this image is going to be stronger in november than it is now. it's going to remain with this country. it's going to affect nearly everyone's vote and donald trump, instead of addressing it as a human being, which he is incapable of doing and bob costa's words just a few moments
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ago, they're going to plunge ahead. plun plunge ahead on a law and order issue. it's not going to work. >> it hasn't worked and it's not going to work. and kasie, you go back to 1974, when barry goldwater walked to the white house and told the president it was time to leave. nobody obviously is going to tell the president that it's time to leave, but i do wonder if, for their own political well being, with these numbers completely collapsing left and right, whether you're talking about incumbent senators way behind in arizona, in colorado, behind up in montana, way behind in other states as well, whether the president doesn't finally get some push back. we are at a different time now than we've been at any other
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stage during the trump presidency and there is a growing concern among republicans that donald trump not only is going to get swept away in november but so will the senate majority and the -- the house will stay in the hands of nancy pelosi. it's a worse-case scenario for republicans. do we really believe that if the trump administration's approach is damn the torpedos, full-steam ahead that republicans will continue to quietly acquiesce and watch their own party blown to pieces? >> in the case of martha mcsally, the arizona senator she was asked about the polling that shows her way behind and her answer in that interview was, that poll is stupid. so i think there is a certain level of, you know, sort of blunt either anger or denial, i'm not sure how the best way is to put it, if you watched that interview, it was pretty
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stunning. but, you know, i think it's in many ways too late for a lot of these republican senators to change their mind. i mean, we'll see if we're ultimately proven wrong here, but, you know, time and time again -- and this is the question that i have been asking. starting from those comments in 2015 when president trump, you know, trashed john mccain's record in war and said those things about him being a prisoner of war that everybody thought were beyond the pale and would represent the beginning of the end for donald trump since then it's a series of episodes where anything couldn't matter, the president would blow through the norms and not get any repercussions from the base of his party. i think what you laid out here with these polling numbers is it is possible that we are seeing a shift that is so dramatic that that is finally a link that's broken. but, you know, if you're a
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republican running for re-election, what do you do? you still are looking at those republican numbers at the end of the day because the entire strategy that they have is to go to those voters and say, hey, i've been with the president, i support -- these guys are running with the president they're not running against him. they viewed running against him as essentially political suicide. i don't know if there's enough time for that to shift. romney is, obviously, in a different position and is trying to take this leadership stand. but the reality is, the people he answers to in utah, you know, they have shown repeatedly they're willing to oppose this president. they have a connection with romney that is bigger than just this one, you know, president, this one administration party moment in time. a lot of these voters in these states that are still with president trump, you know, they still control the fates of these republican senators. and, you know, i think, you know, the question that i think we're all going to grapple with
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here is, you know, are we all kind of as a country looking inside ourselves and making a reevaluation of where we stand as a country. i think there's some evidence that may be the case but, you know, we'll see if that ultimately drives these republicans, i'm still skeptical about it, joe. >> donny, you spent your entire life being a top advertising executive, branding expert, a public relations expert. i'm wondering, again, when we talk about how, you know, the famous quote, i think it was harold wilson who said in politics, a week is a lifetime. can we continue to say that or is this reminding you of a brand or two over time that its name became so toxic with the american people there was no rebranding of the product. is that where we are with donald trump? is that where we are with the
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republican party right now? are things still incredibly fluid? >> there is no rebranding with this president because he would not rebrand himself. he's not capable of it, he doesn't want to, he's going to double, triple, quadruple down. i want to give a brand warning up there we need to buckle up. wherever your imagination can take you what the brand would do, cheat, steal, start a war, that's where it can take you. june 1st was the beginning. buckle up. things we have not thought about historically will happen. like i said, even him starting a war, wherever your mind can take you the lowest step what this caged animal -- i'm not literally calling him a caged animal but what a caged animal can do he is capable of doing, i think the next five months will be the most tumultuous months
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our country has ever seen throughout history. >> a sober warning from the waiting room f of your doctor's office, thank you for that. bob costa, what are you reporting on this week? >> one thing to pay attention to today, joe, is how democrats coming forward with their criminal justice legislation, police reform legislation. can they make any kind of headway in having a national ban on choke holds by police officers, a national police oversight commission. this will be a challenge for speaker pelosi, can she pressure leader mcconnell at all in this election year to try to come together, both parties, to tackle the issue of policing in in the united states? >> thank you so much, bob. alex any chance we can get a split screen of bob costa and donny deutsch? i know we're operating like
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mcgyver. donny, you have subtle shades with bob, he's got traditional furniture, he's got a washington post pillow on his couch. and i'm sitting there and thinking, i got to listen to this guy because he has profound insight. now, i'm looking at you and i don't know what's behind your head, is that a plant? is that an alien? i don't know what that is. what is that? what is that? >> it's a plant. it's a plant. >> why do you have it caged in glass? i don't understand. who gets flowers and puts them in glass? >> joe -- >> donny looks like he's living well to me. >> i spent a lot of time on my floral arrangements and i'm proud of it. i'm going to leave it at that. >> can we stay on donny here, that's the story.
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donny, that lamp in the back behind you, what is that? are those like cadilllackors th used to use? >> those are grapes. >> no the other -- those are supposed to be grapes. >> i think they're grapes. >> you know, joe -- >> i don't understand that either. >> i'm a renaissance guy, joe, i try to give your viewers some color if you will, some background music. >> yeah, color. okay. so i think the saddest part of this story is how much money you probably spent on that lamp, instead of going where i go, which is home depot for about $12.99. >> ikea. >> speaking of ikea, what's that circular thing with the hole in it right behind you. turn around and tell me what purpose that thing -- >> i see. oh, i almost fell down. >> what is that? >> joe, it just broke.
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>> you know what, okay. sit down, donny. sit down. >> it fell down. it's all coming apart here. >> we saw. room raider. i did that for you. we've lost complete control. he's now keith moon at the holiday inn so we're going to let this go. thank you, donny. still ahead, when other countries look at the united states they see three things -- actually, four, counting donny, a mishandled pandemic, economic damage and, of course, troubling race relations. we'll bring in richard has, he's going to take us around the world from his home study. also former homeland secretary jeh johnson will be our guest. "morning joe" coming right back. does that sound normal to you? it's time for a nunormal with nucala. my nunormal: fewer asthma attacks. my nunormal: less oral steroids.
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with his now former secretary of homeland security under president obama, jeh johnson, also with us the president on the council of
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foreign relations richard haus. and he also has a piece in foreign affairs magazine entitled "foreign policy by example, a crisis at home makes the united states vulnerable abroad". richard, start there, the soviet union during the cold war used civil rights unrest in the 1960s against the united states. always talked about the plight of black americans and how badly they were treated. to deflect from their own human rights abuses. are we seeing the same thing now with china and other totalitarian countries? >> we're seeing something similar but it's a lot worse. we have the inept handling of the pandemic, you have the economic aftershocks and you have the racial turmoil, the improper illegal use of force at times by police. a country that's clearly divided. it's not something that others
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are making propaganda value of it, how in the world can we stand up and criticize china for what it's doing in hong kong if the scenes in the united states look similar? how can we argue others might follow a democratic path if we're not respecting our own constitution. i don't think we're giving them just brisz for their mill but i think we're undermining our standing and voice in the world. >> a lot of people have been asking me around the world about the protests across europe. can you explain to us what's going on in europe and why so many people across that continent are also coming out for george floyd protests? >> it's really interesting. this struck a cord, we were talking about it in the earlier hour, joe, i think there was something about this incident that people could relate to. it was so individual, it was so graphic. and what's happening in europe, it's not just being used to say
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things about the united states but racism is not unique to this society. it's found in virtually every society in europe as well. so it's become a defining moment in european society so people are coming out in the streets yes, saying things about george floyd but in many ways directing them at their own society, their own inequality. >> there's so much i want to ask you about,, but can i start with something that's troubled many observers in the united states in the washington protests. we had unmarked officers -- i don't know if they're officers or not. we had unmarked people in riot gear in washington d.c., no identification on who they were, who they worked for, just wearing dark uniforms, wearing
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riot gear, reports say some may have come from texas, they were prison officials, what can you tell us about that and is that unprecedented as far as you can tell in u.s. history? good morning, joe, good morning richard. thank you for that commercial break, i needed a minute to collect myself after that session with donny. >> after donny. um-hum. >> so lafayette park was, at a minimum, an abuse of authority. i rarely see law enforcement officers remove their credentials. the only time i've ever seen a law enforcement officer or military officer remove their name badges is in a detention facility. and, in fact, there are certain circumstances on the battlefield where if a member of the military removes their credentials, who they
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represented, it could be considered a violation of the laws of armed conflict. it was abusive for a reason, the secret service is part of the department of homeland service, i was a protectee of the secret service for three years, there are arrangements in and around the white house compound between the secret service, the metro police about who controls what, who has what responsibility and the secret service, in certain circumstances, to protect the president can take control of a situation and direct the other forces to help support them protect the president. best example i can think of is let's say the president goes up to national cathedral, on his way back to the white house down mass avenue and all of a sudden a bunch of protesters block mass avenue, the secret service in that circumstance would have the
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ability to move people out of the way to protect the president and get him safely back to the white house. here it was a very different circumstance. here the president wants to take a walk in the park. and somebody should have said to him, i think it was the job of the secretary of homeland security, somebody should have said to him, mr. president i hear you want to take a walk in the park for a photo op. to do that we have to forcibly push back a bunch of civilian peaceful demonstrators, some of whom may be looking for a confrontation with the police in order for you to do that. and i got to say, every president in my lifetime, between reagan and obama, would have said you know what, it's not worth it. i am not going to tell you to do that simply so i can have a walk in the park, i'll stay here for the time being. and that's the tragedy of last week in my view. >> richard haus, jonathan lemire is with us and he has a question for you.
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jonathan? >> richard haas, understandably our nation's focus in the last ten days or so has been the protests from coast-to-coast but there are other things going on around the globe i was hoping you could weigh in on, two in particular, the coronavirus pandemic is wreaking havoc in certain countries one is brazil. we heard the president there say the government will stop posting death totals. could you give us an update on what you're hearing in the situation in brazil and other hot spots and north korea, kim jong-un he made one mysterious appearance weeks back but hasn't been seen since, what's the latest? what do american officials think is going on there? >> in terms of brazil it's now become the hot spot, also mexico is emerging. these are the two or two of the most important countries in
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latin america. brazil is out of control, let's say it, it's not on a trajectory where a bad situation is getting better, a bad situation there is getting worse. we're talking about an enormous country. and one of the other things that's happening is the amazon rain forest, which is central to climate change, one of the great drivers of it, as it's being burned is being burned down at a record pace because the country is out of control. that's an issue. it's beginning to spread around parts of africa and the middle east in iran it's coming back. if it's not contained internationally that becomes a new source of reinfection here. north korea there's nothing particularly new. it continues to gradually increase its nuclear weapons and missiles. the big international story i think is germany the last few days. the united states has said we are going to remove about a
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third plus or minus of our forces in germany. this at a time russia poses a major threat to europe. this is a slap at the entire post world war ii defense arrangement in europe. we're pulling out another one of the foundation stones. it sens the message like the kurds, like afghanistan, we are not a reliable ally. to think about what that does for the europeans, what it does for mr. putin, that is the biggest international development the last few days and one the arrows are decidedly in the wrong direction. >> it also underlines republican hypocri hypocrisy. when president obama was president, all we heard was president obama was, quote, leading from behind. all we heard was he was withdrawing from countries and in a fast retreat. and republicans promised they would not retreat from the world
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stage. yet you hear no republicans complaining, certainly not mitch mcconnell who viciously attacked barack obama for leading from behind. i haven't heard yet -- maybe lindsey graham said something about our retreat from germany. i haven't heard, though. certainly not loudly enough. so again, the hypocrisy is extraordinary. different standards for barack obama and donald trump from the gop. shana thomas, you have a question for jeh johnson. >> hey, secretary johnson good to see you again. >> good morning. >> i was watching abc news yesterday and the acting secretary of homeland security, the guy who has the job you used to do, said to martha radits that he did not think we have a problem with systemic racism in law enforcement in this country. do you think that answer is just pure politics?
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how do you take that? i'm curious about your side of that. >> i suspect it was pure politics on his part. not to enrage his boss. he's living day-to-day as an acting. when people have put that question to me, i always want to know what's your definition of systemic racism? by some definitions there's systemic racism across every institution of our nation. it is plain that there are far too many officers who are racist, have a racist heart we saw it on exhibit in minneapolis, it is plain to me we are recruiting across our nation's forces far too many people who are not there to protect and serve but are there to be the neighborhood bully, and that's what i think we need to take a hard look at. i -- in terms of systematic
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racism it to see how people are defining it to give an answer. >> mr. secretary, last week america saw two united states helicopters, let me see, a black hawk and a la cota hovering over the streets of washington d.c. basically in dust off territory, threatening the crowds with the rotor blade dust off, they are assigned to the d.c. national guard. why is it they have helicopters assigned to their national guard with a pentagon across the river? what's up here? >> mike, any national guard, any state national guard, the district of columbia national guard will have certain military-like assets.
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but we have to be circumspect about how we deploy them in a wholly domestic situation and use common sense. because that type of military equipment, fire power, can be very provocative in the wrong situation. district of columbia is a special situation because the district of columbia, as we all know, remains under federal control and there are certain command and control relationships that exist there that don't exist in the states. big picture, mike, i can't tell you how gratified i am to see retired four-stars coming out in reaction to this. putting active duty military, putting military-type equipment on our streets in this our nation's capitol so goes against their values and their core of who they are that they just could not remain silent. i'm happy -- i worked with them when i was general counsel of the department of defense, i
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know them all by first name and i'm very, very pleased they took a stand and came out in reaction to this. >> all right, jeh johnson, thank you so much. we really appreciate you being here. hope you will come back soon. richard, i want to end with you. yes, you know, there's so much to be concerned about over the past several months, whether you're talking about a reaction to covid or whether you're talking about what's happened since george floyd's killing. i do want to look back at the last week, though, and get your reaction to the fact that so many leaders of the united states military and so many past leaders of the united states military came out -- the people who mattered the most, on june the 1st, of course, the president clears peaceful protesters with chemical agents, beating up reporters from australia and beating up american protesters in si
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vallian streets and after his photo op we had former chairman of the joint chiefs history, inflection point in u.s. history, and was deeply critical of the president. james mattis, the president's former secretary of defense, who he constantly bragged about in the early part of the administration came out with withering criticism of the president of the united states. we saw collin powell and other former chairman of the chiefs doing so yesterday, admiral craven, the man who masterminded the raid on osama bin laden's compound in pakistan. we had the current chairman of the joint chiefs come out reiterating the duties,
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constitutional duties every enlisted person in the united states military and every branches, and now we have 84% of americans in this latest cnn poll supporting the protests in the streets of america. does that not show a resiliency that sometimes we too overlook in the midst of chaos? >> it does show a resiliency, joe. and it's heartening. i'm worried in some ways it's limited to our military professionals, but it does show a necessary resiliency. i wish we saw more of it, say, in the senate and some other places, but civil society is essential. i also think we're seeing something else, the military -- and i think you alluded to this earlier -- it came out of a vietnam a bruised or worse institution and the military has carefully rebuilt itself. it is the most successful institution in american society.
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in some ways it's the most integrated institution in american society. the idea that we would bring the military to -- for domestic law enforcement, it seems to me, threatens everything that it was built. threatens cohesion, military readiness, threatens its relationship, its bond with the american people. the leaders from powell, from mike mullen, the others, jim mattis, they basically see what's at stake. they want to nip this in the bud. everything they've worked for four or five decades is put on the line. in is a fundamental threat to the -- to order and to the prestige, the esteem of the american military. they want to stop this before it goes any further. >> all right, richard haass. and i think they did. thank you so much. now, more than three months
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since the coronavirus was first confirmed in new york city, an epicenter of the worldwide outbreak is slated to begin phase one of reopening today. 400,000 workers could be returning to construction jobs, manufacturing sites and retail stores, which will be open for curbside and in-store pickup. meanwhile, u.s. public health officials have cautioned a spike of new cases could follow from the nationwide mass protests. on friday data compiled by "the washington post" show 23 states as well as the district of columbia and puerto rico have seen an increase in the rolling seven-day average of coronavirus cases compared with the previous week. most of registered an increase of 10% or more. let's bring in right now emergency physician and public health professional at george washington university, dr. leana wen. she previously served as baltimore's health commissioner. doctor, thank you so much for
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being with us. how concerned are you by the images of the mass protests you're seeing day in and day out as it pertains to public health, as it pertains to the coronavirus, as it pertains to a potential spike of new infections and deaths in the united states? >> i'm very concerned. look, i have so much sympathy for why the protests are conc n occurring but this is a highly contagious disease. these mass protests are occurring at the same time as reopening is occurring in all 50 states. i think it helps the protests are happening outdoors. outdoor activities can reduce the rate by indoors by up to 18 to 19 times. if most people are wearing masks, that can also reduce the risk further by 50% or more. and i think at this point we all have to do our part. individuals, for example, can try to do social distancing as much as we can, don't hug or
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kiss or shake hands if you're going to be at protests. definitely do not go if you're feeling sick because you don't want to be infecting others. policymakers also have to get ready for the surge that's almost certainly going to be coming all around the country. making sure we have enough testing, getting enough ppe so we don't run out of masks and other supplies again and just encouraging good hygiene practices like everybody wearing masks and washing hands and hand sanitizer. i think that's the best we can do at this point to reduce the harm because we are going to see an increase in transmission across the country. >> mike barnicle is with us and has a question. mike? >> doctor, if you would, would you weigh in on your own personal opinion. how much damage has been done by the president of the united states making the wearing of a mask a cultural issue and many people not wearing the mask because the president doesn't wear a mask and he's inflamed
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it, actually, as bizarre as that may seem, wearing versus not wearing a mask, how danger cung has it been? >> we now have studies coming out from around the world that show that countries where universal mask wearing is part of the culture have a reduced rate of transmission. studies show if everyone wears a mask we can reduce that by 50% up to the least up to 90%. this is not about politics. this is about each of us showing that we care about one another, we respect one another. and that's the reason why we do this. i think we've seen, too, the president, for better or for worse, is the most credible messenger, the most trusted messenger for millions of americans. i hope he'll step up and
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encourage these public health best practices as the trump administration needs to do a lot more to put together a national strategy around testing, contact tracing, isolation, these things that we in public health know are essential to reining in the infection. look, we are opening much sooner than we should because we don't have these capabilities in place. it's not too late. we really need the trump administration to step up. >> shawna thomas has a question. shawna? >> yeah. i think in these cities, especially large cities where we're seeing these protests, you know, i don't think anyone wants to diminish the protests or try to convince people not to go out there. they're speaking their truth. but really what do cities need to have in place? as someone who has gone out to some of the protests, i do worry about two weeks from now, three weeks from now, four weeks from now. do we have good enough data to even see the spike once in happens? and then what do cities actually
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do? >> that's such a great question. and i think you make an important point that we're not saying to people, don't protest, because, frankly, all these issues are interrelated. covid-19 is a public health crisis but so is rachl. and we know, for example, that african-americans, people of color aredy proportionately affected by covid-19 and covid has unmasked these underlying disparities. i think there are things individuals can be doing to take steps to reduce their risk of transmitting the virus to others. you're right, policymakers have to do a lot more, too. we do have to make testing not only free and accessible, but it also needs to be targeted specifically to people who are the most vulnerable, including the african-american community. that we also have to have not just testing but contact tracing and isolation. i can't be telling my patients to self-isolate for 14 days if
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they live in crowded, intergenerational housing. a lot more needs to be done by poli policymakers to adequately protect people. >> dr. leana wen, appreciate it. greatly appreciate it. the mayor of washington, d.c., muriel bowser, joins the conversation after having "black lives matter" painted on the sidewalk businesses are starting to bounce back.
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. the one word i have to use is a word i never would have used before, i never would have used with any of the four presidents i've worked for. he lies. he lies about things. and he gets away with it because people will not hold him accountable. >> general colin powell with those words of condemnation for president donald trump. becoming the fourth former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to criticize the president's response to the protests. powell also going as far as announcing that he's going to be voting for joe biden in november. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, june 8th. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasi d.c., kasie hunt,
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and the reverend al sharpton and donny deutsch. mika will be back tomorrow. reverend, set the week for us. large protests across the nation. they continue to grow. mainly peaceful protests and, of course, you have some important events coming up in houston. tell us about it. >> the there were many protests over the weekend, and it seems as if the momentum and drive for police reform and social justice is growing and continuing. and they were mostly peaceful, almost 100% peaceful. some of the concerns are that we continue to stay focused on really getting legislation passed. there will be announcements today for members on congress. and frankly, i would be concerned that we remember we're
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in a pandemic and wear face masks and to try as best possible to deal with distancing. we want people to protest, but we don't want people to become victimized by the pandemic. and i think it's a testimony to their will and drive that they're coming out despite the danger. today the family will meet privately with former vice president biden in houston. i will probably attend along with attorney benjamin crump in houston. tomorrow the funeral services where pastor wright and i and others will give the eulogy and he'll be laid to rest. this person who has now become a symbol, who has in my opinion sparked something that could really lead to permanent change. i don't think anyone in the floyd family could have thought that he could have been used like this to make such an historic point, but he has.
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i think that history in terms of policing has changed because of what has happened to george floyd. >> and it's so widespread. rev, we'll show some polls in a little bit that just shows, again, i've -- i'm sorry for my viewers to keep going back to this same example but it really did. there was a moment in the 1960s that awakened white america and it was the bombing of the birmingham church and killing of those little girls that really shocked the consciousness of america, white america, and moved the civil rights movement forward through that tragedy. you look at the poll numbers that are out. overwhelming number of americans are not being distracted by cultural wars. they are supporting these marches. they are supporting, despite the fact, obviously, they're concerned about violence, but they -- with some of the people that are rioting, a small
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number, but george floyd's death and actions of the police concern americans 59% to 27% more than the protests turning violent. it's great to read polls. i have to tell you, i talked to so many people yesterday that we're talking about church services in conservative areas, areas i'm sure donald trump will sweep by large margins even if he's sitting at 42% in the polls, and they're talking about the need for dramatic change. george floyd's cruel death, the murder of george floyd over those 9 1/2 minutes was a terror in time for this history's 400 years in race relations. and for some reason, and i say some reason because so many
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other heinous things have happened over the previous years, but there was something about that video and that killing that has stopped white americans in their track as well as black americans, hispanic americans, asian americans, all americans, to demand change. whether they're marching in the streets or whether they're sitting in their republican suburbs across america saying, enough is enough. >> no, i think those of us that have been involved in this for years have tried to mull over what was different here because there has been other atrocities as bad, but i think a lot of it is we will never figure it out. some of it is in the middle of this pandemic where most of the nation was sheltered down and people saw this eight-minute videotape, 8:46, which is why in my eulogy in minneapolis, i had people just stand there, stand
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8:46 quietly. people began saying after two minutes, this is too long. and they began to realize, how can you hold somebody down, your knee on their neck for 8:46 when most of us can't hold in one position that long. what would motivate that and how do you not hold that to be accountable? i think this was just too much while everyone was focused, no sports games on, joe, no distractions. people are focused for the first time saying, this is really happeni happening, we have to do something about it. that's when change comes. that's why though looting or violent are getting in the way of real change because once we have the nation's focus, don't distract it with things that are, in my opinion, not positive for the family and for the calls of justice. it becomes like the people you're fighting. >> and, of course, the family
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calling -- opposing any violence and the looting as well as the civil rights leaders. the marches are continuing. for the most part, very peaceful. that includes washington, d.c., where president trump yesterday ordered the national guard to begin withdrawing from the capitol warning, quote, they can quickly return if needed. the president's move came a week after endless criticism over his threat to militarize his administration's response to the nationwide protests, which includes rebukes from inside the military establishment itself for more than half a dozen former flag officers, including retired navy admiral william mccraven, the man who led the crusade to kill osama bin laden, james mattis, retired army general that the president was deeply enamored by in the administration early on. and three other former chairmen
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of the joint chiefs. colin powell became the fourth member to condemn the president's response to those protests. >> we have a constitution and we have to follow that constitution and the president has drifted away from it. i agree with all of my former colleagues. remember, i've been out of the military now for 25 years. so, i'm watching them closely because they were all junior officers when i left. i'm proud of what they are dooling. i'm proud they were willing to speak honesty and speaking truth to those who do not speak truth. >> we have a duty to find -- our military should never be called to fight our own people as enemies of the state. >> jonathan lemire, the
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generals, the admirals, even the chairman of the joint chiefs belatedly all stood up for basic constitutional values, basic constitutional norms this past week. and here we are a week later, and i'm looking back, and i think other people are looking back on june 1, 2020, as a day, i said it, i think the day after or maybe on the 3rd, that's the day students at west point are going to be taught about for years to come, when the military was pulled into a political dispute, used as political props and quickly pulled back and corrected itself. i thought, as mike mullen said yesterday, we have built our reputation back up over 50 years after vietnam.
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40 years, 45, 50 years after vietnam. we don't need to tear it back down by being used politically to go out in the streets and attack the president's opponents. >> joe, i think you're right. what happened monday, and you could feel it in the moment, felt momentous, when the federal law enforcement, military police were used to clear lafayette square across from the white house so the president could walk across it and stand in front of a church holding a bible for a photo op. it's been a week now and we're still feeling the aftershocks. certainly hearing these decorated list of retired military officers speak out against it, carries some weight. colin powell didn't support donald trump last time either but he adds his voice to those admired on both sides of the aisle, who are saying, flat out, they believe this president is not up for the job and that he
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has damaged the reputation of the military in the way he has tried to use it last month and discussed using it further on. there's been reporting from my colleagues at the ap and other places about an extraordinary meeting in the oval office last week where the president wanted 10,000 troops on american city streets, to break up these protests, to break up what he saw as rioters and looters and had to be talked out of that by defense secretary esper, even attorney general barr counselled against it at that time because we're seeing a president still unable to respond to what is happening here. as the reverend and you said, we still don't totally know all the reasons why the floyd moment is the one that ignited this widespread not just national but global protests. certainly the pandemic had something to do with it, but also i think it's the occupant of the white house. these not protests necessarily against donald trump but a lot of protesters there say he added fuel to the fire.
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a majority of americans feel the country is out of control. that's according to a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. the poll, which was conducted during the aftermath of george floyd's death and as u.s. surpassed over 100,000 coronavirus deaths, 80% believes america is out of control. only 15% say they think things are under control and almost six in ten voters say they are more concerned about the death of george floyd and the actions of the police than they are about the violence that has broken out at times during recent protests. broken down by party, that
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includes 81% of democrats, 59% of independents and 29% of republicans. the nbc poll has joe biden over trump did the nationally. biden is ahead by seven points, 49% to 42%. those numbers are unchanged since april. among voters living in those top battleground states, joe biden is up eight points against the president, 50% to 42%. more concerning for the trump campaign specifically continues to be michigan, a state they've been worried about, as jonathan lemire has reported for some time. in that state, president trump trails joe biden by 12 points in the battleground state of michigan. and the newest epic mra poll, biden sits at 63% to donald trump's 41% in the great lake city. among independents who usually decide michigan's elections, joe biden leads donald trump by 40
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percentage points, 63% to 23%. in 2016, of course, president trump narrowly won michigan by less than one percentage point. donny, my gosh, there are so many cross-currents. the pandemic, which has now killed twice as many people than died in combat in vietnam or died in combat during world war i, and those numbers continue to grow. health officials fear these p protests will cause those numbers to spike even more. and you have what happened on june 1st in lafayette park. you and i and willie and mika, everybody that's on this show, we always talk about how it's early. these polls are -- and june is early. it's not march or april but june
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still is early because of the belief things can change in a week's time in american politics, but some of those numbers, if you look inside, some of those numbers with women, with people in the suburbs, with independents, those numbers are hardening and over 3 1/2 years. not just over the past three weeks. and on the other side of it, these protests are engaging and energizing black americans in a way that the trump campaign was hoping joe biden could not. so it seems from both sides, the white suburbs, the educated voters, all of these women, all of these people running away from donald trump over the past three years, they were hoping that would be offset by getting 15%, 20% of the black vote ordy
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depressing the black vote. right now at least in june and early june, none of that seems likely or even plausible. >> joe, i want to go back to all of that. that one number, 80% of this country thinks we're out of control. that concept of control is so important. literally four out of five americans think we're out of control. the president is out of control. also i'm sure you're going to get this a little later, just about 70% think we're on the wrong track. those are stunning numbers, whether you're in march, april, may, june, july or august. those are powerful, powerful numbers. the thing i think plays so against the president, everybody's been so worried about joe biden, is he the right guy, i think he's the president guy. he is comfort. we have a drunk driver, he's the designated driver to get us home. right now if i was going to use
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one word to describe the entire populous of this country, anxious. we washed last week, that was the crescendo. we say, wow, it can't get worse. trump can't dig a deeper grave. he did monday when he stepped up to the american people and said, if you disagree with me, i will dominate you, i will have the military by my side. oh, by the way, god is on my side as he stood there with the upside down bible. the other numbers i just want to also point out, i always say follow the money. in the futures betting market where wall street, where the money is betting, interestingly enough, trump is trailing by seven points. the same number that's in all the national polls. no matter what metric you look at, trump is in desperate trouble. you talked about this at the top of the hour, the trump people starting to think about what is our slogan. is it renewal, the comeback kid. you can't slogan your way out of this. that is a big, big problem for a
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guy who's built his entire career out of sloganing. coming up on "morning joe," in the words of our next guest, today we say, quote, no. in november we say next. the mayor of washington, d.c., muriel bowser, had that message for the president over the weekend and she joins us next. you wouldn't do only half
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winning writer for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart. jonathan lemire is with us as well. mayor, thank you for joining us. let me ask, how did last night in terms of the protests? is violence down, policing issues, are they calming down in your city? where does washington, d.c., stand? >> let me be clear about this, joe. we have had peaceful protests in washington, d.c., all week. last weekend we saw a small group of people disrupt peaceful protests, and our police department, the metropolitan police department, will deal with those issues and investigate those issues fully. saturday what he with saw were our largest crowds, peaceful crowds, who were coming from all points of washington, d.c., converging on black lives matter plaza.
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to redress their grievances and demand of a more just system. >> how are washington police handling this? have they for the most part been respectful of the protesters? do you have any specific concerns or any serious concerns systemically? >> our police, joe, work with first amendment demonstrations for their entire history. we're proud to be host to the nation's capital. we host very large events, and our police department is, in my view, the best in the nation dealing with large events. >> let me ask you really quickly about something that's happening in minneapolis and reverend al and i talked about this earlier, a lot of people talking about defunding police, abolishing municipal police departments. reverend al suggested earlier that it's more symbolic.
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it's not an actual abolishment like, for instance, of the minneapolis police department but they're actually talking more about reform. let me ask you what you think about this defunding movement. understanding that, yes, the disproportionate number of police abuse issues involve black americans, but also a disproportionate number of victims of crime also, obviously, are black americans. how do we sort through these things? how do you sort through these issues as mayor of washington, d.c.? >> i think we have to start by listening and recognizing that young people who are speaking to their elected officials want us to hear their experience and they're demanding change. they're not going to go away. so we have to all be open to looking at our policies, looking
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at our forces and making sure they are fair and just. we certainly can't paint every police department in the same way. i know about public safety in washington, d.c. i know the investments that we make in policing are part of our strategies, but we also make investments in violence intervention, in our schools and on our streets. we make investments in mental health diversion programs. we make investments in job training and we especially make investments in our schools. even in the time where our budget took $800 million hit due to covid-19 lockdowns, i was able to send to our council an increase in schools funding for public schools of 3%. there are lots of parts that make up our public safety system. and we in local government have to make sure we're attacking
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public safety issues not just from enforcement but also from opportunity and intervention. >> mayor bowser, jonathan capehart is with us, and he has a question for you. jonathan? >> hi, mayor bowser. saw you yesterday. >> good to see you. >> i'm going to ask you on "morning joe" what i asked you yesterday, and that is, having a mural "black lives matter" in huge block letters across three blocks leading up to the white house, as i said to you on a sunday, bad-ass move that you made. talk about why you decided to answer the president's taunts and tweets in that manner. >> well, let me just say, jonathan, you know this well and joe knows this well, we saw in washington, d.c., federal forces
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used in a political stunt to attack peaceful protests in washington, d.c. we saw the american military moved around our country like toy soldiers to intimidate americans in washington, d.c. the finest military in the world should never be used in that way. and americans across the country should be scared about that. people also need to know that 700,000 taxpayers in america's capital don't have two senators or a vote in the congress. that's why we demand statehood. the black lives matter mural is a representation of an expression of our saying no, but also identifying and claiming a part of our city that had been taken over by federal forces to make it a place for healing, strategizing, protests and redress, which is the greatest
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statement we can make as americans and black americans who want to be recognized for human beings and have our lives matter. >> jonathan capehart, i know you have a follow-up question. you ran into a dear friend of mine who was also, we call ourselves traveling buddies in congress, but, of course, he's a civil rights icon legend, john lewis yesterday. tell us about that. >> it was an honor to be there, to be there with him. people forget that history is cyclical. for john lewis, who i know, as you know and have discussed on this show, at the foot of the edmu edmund pettus bridge and was clubbed by law enforcement in alabama standing up for the right of african-americans to
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vote. here we are more than 50 years later talking about law enforcement and the disproportionate treatment and violence against african-americans. and for him, his desire to be there, to see black lives matter on 16th street, to be able to stand there, to look at this man and to be there with this man who was there for me, for us, before i was born, still here, fighting the good fight. remember, he is fighting -- i believe it's stage 4 cancer. despite his cancer, despite a global pandemic, he felt moved and compelled to stand and bear witness it those marchers, those protesters who are carrying on a tradition that he was a part of as a very young man in his 20s. you know, about a mile away from
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the lincoln memorial where he was the youngest person to speak and march on washington and now he's 80 years old and standing and bearing witness to the ongoing work. >> wow. jonathan lemire is with us. he has a question for you, mayor. jonathan? >> thank you. >> mayor bowser, good to see you. as just discussed, the black lives matter written in huge letters on the street there, the plaza named after it. my question is quite simple. since you've done these things in the last few days, have you heard from the white house about it? and if you do, what will your response be? >> i haven't heard from the white house about it. and we simply, and i expect we will have further discussions with the white house. as the mayor of washington, d.c., we always have discussions with the president of the united states. and our issues would be whatever
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issues we have to bring with them, for them to address. i don't expect that we would necessarily hear from them about the public art on a d.c. street. but they recognize that we as washingtonians have to stand up for our city. in this case, i think we have a special responsibility to stand up for our nation. >> all right. well, you're certainly doing that. mayor muriel bowser, thank you for being with us today and thank you for your leadership. we are so grateful. >> thank you. coming up next, several reports that prominent republicans will not be voting for donald trump. we'll be discussing the dynamics of their decision ahead on "morning joe."
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in an uncertain world, time-tested values like honesty and integrity, empathy and compassion, that's the only real currency in life. treating people right will never, ever fail you. now, i'm not naive. i know that you can climb a long way up the ladder selling falsehoods and blaming others for your own shortcomings.
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shunning those with less privilege and advantage, but that is a heavy way to live. it deadens your spirit and it hardens your heart. it may seem like a winning strategy in the short run, but trust me, graduates, that kind of life catches up to you. >> you know, jonathan lemire, you hear those pointed comments, very focused comments, and they could only be directed at one person. that, of course, a-rod, and any other new york yankee that tries to cross america's team, the red sox. where's your varitek and a-rod picture? >> joe, that photo will return. but at a time of some unrest across our country, the thought was, we received some notes that
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perhaps a depiction of violence even on a sports field, was not the best back drop. jason varitek showing alex rodriguez remains the same, image our nation needs in a time of crisis and it will return. >> i think it should return. i think the people that are against -- the anti-mask crowd may not like him showing him how to cover his mouth during a pandemic and i think it should return. let's bring in al, two people in the words of george w. bush, are uniters, not dividers, "usa today" opinion columnist and senior adviser for the white house oversight committee, a "morning joe" contributor, and republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, susan del
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percio. susan, let me start with you. the numbers out this morning are stark. you can look at the cnn poll that shows joe biden up by double digits, shows him absolutely trouncing donald trump when it comes to independents. we have other polls out late last week we showed this morning showing support from white conservative christians dropping, evangelicals, and this general election match-up, biden at 55%, the president at 41%, losing five percentage points, since may biden up five percentage points. that michigan poll has joe biden up five percentage points there. i understand there's talk the white house may be thinking about doubling down on this law and order approach that has been so disastrous over this past week.
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i'm not saying he is capable of change. but if the president were capable of change, what would be the best direction for him to move to turn around these numbers, to stop the political bleeding? >> to probably just shut up. i mean, that's all he's got, his voice, and he's never been one to defuse a tense situation. frankly, when he goes out and tries to speak other people, there's nothing he does to unite. chaos is his favorite tool. he looks at everything as a political problem and that's one of the tools he wants to use to get ahead. if he actually wanted to stop some of the bleeding, he should let some of his experts go out there and present, whether it's on corona, whether it's on policing, to just stop talking. he can't control himself. that's the biggest problem. i think when we look at some of those polling numbers, i don't
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see a lot of movement in his base towards joe biden in those numbers, but i do see them willing to stay home. that is bad news not just for the president, but for the u.s., for any chance that the republicans have to hold onto the senate. >> you know, kurt bar deldella, the first three years of the trump administration, obviously the economy was doing well. there were not a lot of outside disturbances. it was, in fact -- it was, in fact, donald trump that would create most of the political crises through his twitter feed or through something that he said at a press conference or something that he said at a rally. and while -- i guess while the economy was going well and things were going okay, most people were annoyed by it, but they could live with it. now that we have chaos all around us, not only with this brutal police attack but also the protests, with the pandemic that's killed well over 100,000
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people, it seems that americans have had enough of self-inflicted chaos. actually, do just want him to tamp things down a bit. >> yeah, i'll tell you, there are times, joe, i think the most effective ad joe biden could run is saying, vote me for president, you'll never see me tweet a thing. time and again, when someone reveals who they are, it's best for the american people to believe them. and donald trump has demonstrated over the course of these few years exactly who he is. he's racist, he's ignorant, he's stupid, he's unstable, he's got some sort of mental condition that where he can't help but watch those that are critics of his and try to do everything he can to get their approval by doing the most insane things like tweeting at them and obsessively watching a show like "morning joe" and tweeting about it constantly. you know, it's an unhealthy fixation he has and it drives
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him to do insane things. i think when it comes to twitter -- -- i've talked to so many people over the past week, particularly in communities that voted for donald trump, like tennessee, tell me they're done. they've finally hit the breaking point. it's insane to me it took them this long but let's embrace the fact they're getting there. in a pandemic where people are dying, we have these protests for eight-plus minutes we watched someone die, murdered at the hands of law enforcement, and donald trump still tweeting crazy things. donald trump still tweeting this morning, law and order, as if that's a substitute for an actual leadership and a plan and a way to unite and bring people together. he's incapable of all those things. and i think a lot of people out there are just ready to change the channel. while they may not vote for joe biden, you're right, they're not going to show up and vote for donald trump either. you're right, that's devastating for his re-election chances. >> jonathan capehart, what does america need to hear from their president, whoever that
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president would be at this moment, but especially now, what do americans need to hear from their president? >> actually, i think they've heard it, at least a big chunk of it. that was vice president biden's, where he can, i can't breathe, i can't breathe. that speech is one that spoke to the anger and rage and frustration that was out on the city -- on american city streets. it was a speech of unity and bringing people -- bringing together, bringing people together, talking about how we as a nation can move forward to heal the divides and how it's going to take time to get there. the american people are going through a lot. there's a global pandemic. there's the economic collapse. there's, as kurt was just talking about, having watched a fellow american being killed by law enforcement, that's seen the american president have military
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police, park police, law enforcement on american citizens, hitting them with stun grenades and tear gas and rubber bullets on the streets of the american capital. i think the american people need to hear, and certainly feel, that the person in the white house is one who sees what's going on, understands what's going on, and is doing everything possible to stabilize things, to calm things. but he is, indeed, meeting with law enforcement today at the white house. i have to tell you, my gut is not comforted. in fact, as you know, as we all know, he is incapable of being silent. he is incapable of not saying something or doing something that adds to the chaos. very well could make a situation that has been calming since friday, inflaming it again. >> let's pray that does not
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happen. let's also -- let's bring in right now independent senator angus king, who talks about protesting with dr. martin luther king 60 years ago. and he marched again this weekend for the same cause. senator king joins us now. he's a member of both the intelligence and armed services committee. so senator, i'll ask you. we saw mitt romney go out, a republican. we saw you go out as an independent. why did you decide to go out and march this weekend? >> well, it wasn't a long considered decision, joe. i woke up saturday morning and said, you know, i've just got to do this. i was at the march on washington in 1963 as a 19-year-old college sophomore. i ended up sitting in a tree with a young black guy at the lincoln memorial and heard the "i have a dream" speech. it was one of the most moving experiences of my life. i woke up saturday morning and
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knew there was a protest. i said, i've got to go. and i walked up the hill and walked by the supreme court building on the way to where people were gathering at the capitol. and there, up above the entrance of the supreme court is all you need to know about what's going on. equal justice under law. nobody is asking for anything extraordinary or new or special in these protests. all they're asking for is for us, as all americans, to honor the creed that we all grew up with. equal justice under law. equal protection under the law. all men and women are created equal. you know, all of that. crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea. this is really what this is all about and that's why i wanted to go. and i'm glad i did. i didn't want to look back five years from now and say, you could have taken part but you didn't. so i was there. and it was a very important and moving experience.
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>> i know you're on the armed services committee. i know that you were, obviously, concerned like so many other americans in all parties, concerned about what you saw june 1st when the president cleared -- had violently cleared a park of peaceful protesters to go over and strangely lift up a bible backwards. i'm curious, though if you were heartened by the response that you have heard from former chief of -- from admiral mullen, former chairman of the joint chiefs, from former chairman of the joint chiefs collin powell, former sec def, admiral craven and also the news that the active troops have been taken out of washington, d.c.
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>> joe, that was a really serious moment. our military has never been political. and they shouldn't be political. and you know, the founding fathers talked about a standing army. that was something they were worried about. so if we're going to have people that are ready, and we do. we need to have them prepared and ready for some attack by foreign adversaries, not our own people, but we've got to be careful. and i think one of your guests earlier this morning said it correctly. this is not only a risk for the public. it's a risk for the military. they've worked so hard to build up their reputation. one of the most well-respected institutions in our society. and to the extent they become used in a political way as props or as actually the worst would be to have them out on the streets of america, active duty military, that would just be a huge setback and it would undermine everything the military has tried to do in
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terms of gaining the confidence of the american people. the other piece that really bothered me about that was unmarked -- i call them unmarked cars. forces out on the street that nobody could tell who they were. not only not their names but even what organization they were with. that's not america. that's just not appropriate. i think that's something that ought to be cleared up right away. number one, we ought to know who they are. and number two, in the future, anybody that's out there enforcing the law ought to be clearly identified. >> total breach of political norms and should not happen. i hope congress gets the answers about who those plainclothes officers in riot gear were, if they were, in fact, even officers. the associated press' jonathan lemire is with us and has a question for you, senator. jonathan? >> actually two questions for you about the coronavirus
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pandemic. first, tell us what you want to see now in terms of small business loan program, the ppp. what sort of changes or updates are needed? and the president was in your home state on friday. he visited a place where the swabs for the coronavirus tests are manufactured. but there were reports because he didn't wear a mask during that visit all the swabs that were being made in the background while he was there had to be destroyed. i want to get your reaction on that as well as the ppp. >> let me take the second one first. i've seen the press reports. i think the company has confirmed that, yes, in fact, they had to destroy the swabs made that day. this business of not wearing a mask, i mean, masks not only will control the pandemic but it's also a matter of personal responsibility. you are not -- you shouldn't be spreading it yourself. that's the danger. you're endangering other people and his unwillingness, there you see the shots. everybody else has a mask on.
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it's a terrible disservice to the country to have made wearing a mask some kind of political statement because it's really the appropriate way to go. as far as the ppp, the paycheck protection program, there were some good midcourse corrections taken last week on a totally bipartisan basis. 417 to 1 in the house. unanimous in the senate to try to make it to fix some of the unintended consequences. and i think that's appropriate. but the overall question of the pandemic, though, here's what really bothers me. there was an implicit contract with the administration back in february and march and that was, we the american people will make huge sacrifices. stay home, not going to work, shut down the economy so you can take the steps necessary that we can safely get out of this at a reasonable period of time. we kept our side of the bargain. the administration didn't. i saw something last night where
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they said proudly, 3 million tests a week. it ought to be 2 or 3 million a day nrd in order to safely reop. i did a calculation last night. four countries, germny, japan, south korea and canada. generally the same population of america. 17,000 deaths versus 110,000 deaths. that's an apples to apples comparison. the first death in south korea was the same day as the first death in america. we've had 110,000 since. they've had 272. our response has been inadequate. and that's what really bothers me. i'm really worried that we're going to be right back in what amounts to early march in september. and we won't have taken the steps on the national level in terms of testing, contact tracing and a really concentrated effort to deal with this short of having a vaccine. and all that we've gone through is for naught.
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>> senator angus king, we really appreciate you being with us. thank you so much for your insights. time for some final thoughts. susan dell persio, as i saw the president in that factory where they were making swabs and saw him alone not wearing a mask, it became obvious why the overwhelming majority of americans, 55% to 41% trust joe biden more to handle this crisis. it just seemed so unnecessary, especially in a place where he especially needed to be wearing protection. >> it seems to me, joe, that should be a campaign ad saying, donald trump puts himself first. he will always put himself above you and your family and the american public. and that's what he's basically saying when he goes to these places without wearing a mask. >> final thoughts, kurt baldala?
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>> it was interesting listening to senator king there. i can't help but think i worked for senator olympia snowe. and i look at how far the republican party has come. i know senator king is an independent but olympia snowe was a moderate republican. when i see people like mitt romney do what he did yesterday and the republicans publicly starting to -- some of them come out and change their public posture on donald trump and making more bold statements like we've seen from people like former secretary of state colin powell, you know, the military leaders, i just wonder how many more republicans are going to start doing that. is this the beginning of something much bigger or is this just going to be an aborition. we'll see if the republican party sees it. donald trump, this is a sinking ship. it's time to get off of this because if they don't, i think that you're going to see the republican party wipe themselves
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out into becoming a permanent minority problem, much like what happened to the republican party in california out there. >> kurt, thank you so much. susan del persio, jonathan capehard and jonathan lemire, greatly appreciate you being on the show this morning. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's monday, june 8th. here's what's happening. america waking up this morning after a weekend that saw massive protest marches from coast to coast. and demands to fundamentally change the way police operate in this country. for a growing number of people that means moving money out of police budgets or re-imagining the way departments are put together entirely. in minneapolis, they are pushing for deep change. talking about dismantling the current version of their police force. now, don't get worried. that does not mean

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