tv Morning Joe MSNBC July 3, 2020 3:00am-6:00am PDT
>> what we have seen over the last several days is a spike in cases that are well beyond the worst spikes that we have seen. that is not good news. we have got to get that under control or we risk an even greater outbreak in the united states. when you look at the fact that we never got things down to baseline, where so many countries in europe and the uk and other countries did, they closed down to the tune of about 97% lockdown. in the united states, even in the most strict lockdown, only about 50% of the country locked down. that allowed the perpetuation of the outbreak that we never did get under very good control. >> you have been losing this battle, haven't you? >> yeah. we can't give up. we have to continue to try to educate people, but not in a way where you look down on them.
but to try to get them to understand the importance of evidence. >> and the crisis is being handled. you know, if you look we're talking this morning, something to think about. china was way early and they're getting under control just now. and europe was way early and they're getting under control. we followed them with this terrible china virus and we are likewise getting under control. some areas were very hard hit are now doing very well. some were doing well and we thought they may be gone and they're flaring up and we're putting out the fires, but other places were long before us. and they're now -- it's life, it's got a life and we're putting out that life because that's bad life.
>> dr. fauci losing the battle versus the president, it's being handled. it is friday, july 3rd. >> he went back to talking about us doing very well. and that the crisis is handled. again it's consistent with everything he said in january when he said it's one person coming in from china. soon it will be down to zero -- >> when it should have been ramping up. >> 15 people -- going down to zero. we have done a very good job at this and in march he talked about how it was going to go away magically. in april, just go away magically and that we were doing very well with it. he kept talking about what a great job he's doing. here, mika we'll get to the news. another record-setting day. the type of record we don't want to set. deaths over 130,000 americans are dead now. a lot of senior citizens are dead now because donald trump said that it was going to go away magically, not to worry
about it. and it's not just dr. fauci. i understand there's some really stupid people out there on capitol hill, some really dumb people that attacked dr. fauci. stupid people who actually have the coronavirus and go to gyms and hang out with other senators and then actually have the audacity to talk dr. fauci. so tell us something good, give us some good news. is that what you want to hear? do you want to be lied to? if you have cancer, do you want the doctor to pat you on your back and go, hey, have a great 4th of july weekend. have a great summer. my god, don't even come back for two years when the doctor -- is that what you want? is that what america wants in a president to tell you that this is going to magically go away when the fact we're still in the first wave? this is what dr. fauci said and ends up you look at the
numbers -- tim carnie put some numbers together, yes, we are still in the first wave. and we're setting records every day for the number of infections that we're having. doctors fear that death rates are going to go up, following all of these large infections and dr. fauci again is doing what he's been doing from the beginning. he's been telling you the truth and you haven't wanted to hear it, so you put up these stupid, stupid conspiracy theories on facebook where you say he and george soros types are making this up. and you fooled people in my family and they're calling me s this really a conspiracy theory, is this something so fauci can make money? friends, people who voted for me, they believe the lies, they believe the stupidity.
they believe the conspiracy theories. when guess what dr. fauci has been doing from the very beginning? it's very simple and i know if you voted for donald trump and you still support donald trump it is actually a character trait that you don't see very often from your hero, from your idol. it's a character trait that you have grown unaccustomed to seeing from public figures. but what anthony fauci is doing is simply telling you the truth and he's been telling you the truth from the very beginning. you didn't believe him when it was in new york city. you thought this was a conspiracy theory. you thought this was like neil armstrong walking on the moon in a burbank-like movie studio. oh, he wasn't on the moon, was he? it was in a sound stage in burbank. that's what you thought when it
was in new york city. well now from the end of the world to your town is elton john singing captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboys, suddenly, texas is telling people they have to wear masks. oh, is that really a threat to your individual freedoms to make sure you don't die? to make sure your children don't die? is that how you define freedom? to make sure your neighbors don't die? to make sure people that you go to first baptist church with don't die? that's your definition of freedom? what a perverse -- what a perverse way to look at freedom as we move towards independence day. you know, understand this. it's not too late for you.
i am a baptist. thank god jesus believes in grace. i believe in death bed conversions. i was glad to hear that john wayne on his death bed converted to catholicism, i said praise the lord, because jesus says he'll take death bed conversions. he'll take the person that comes out in the field and starts working in the field and pay them as much as the person who has been in the working all day. so please, as marjorie plays just as i am in the background, please make your conversion. not to science. i'm not asking you to embrace science over jesus. i'm just saying -- just talk to your doctor, okay? this is basic medicine. this is doc hollywood stuff. this is not hard, okay?
just basic medicine. dr. fauci is telling you the truth. why? because there's no great conspiracy theory. he just wants you to live. he just wants your child to be able to go back to school. and do it safely. he just wants you to be able to go back to the restaurant that you love, with your family, after going to sunday school and church. and have a good time with your family. he wants to make sure you don't lose your job or the small business that you're running, doesn't get destroyed. this is basic, simple stuff and i understand there's been a guy in the white house who has been trying to convince you otherwise of this -- this is a culture war. this is no more of a culture war than cancer is a culture war. this is more than a culture war than heart disease is a culture war. this is basic science, this is
basic medicine. follow the doctor's advice and let's all live to tell about this, okay? >> and with us on this friday, wow, right out of the box, pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. and donny deutsch joins us as well. let's back that up with the news. the u.s. recorded its highest number of new cases in a single day for the third day in a row yesterday. with more than 56,000 cases. according to msnbc news data, georgia, florida, south carolina all broke their state's individual records for the most cases in single day. texas, california and alabama all recorded their second highest number of new cases. florida has now passed the
10,000 mark. as "the washington post" notes, it's the 25th consecutive day that florida has set a record high in its seven-day rolling average as texas scrambles to gets its coronavirus surge under control. governor greg abbott issued an executive order requiring people to wear face coverings, masks, in public. the move marks a major reversal for abbott who in april blocked local officials from penalizing people who don't wear masks. the order which takes effect today at noon requires anyone over the age of 10 to wear face coverings inside businesses and other buildings or spaces open to the public. it also requires masks outside in public spaces when it's not feasible to stay six feet apart from others. some exceptions include when people are eating, drinking, exercising, voting or worshipping.
first-time violators will be penalized -- fined and they'll take it from there. meanwhile, late last night the president tweeted quote, there is a rise in coronavirus cases because our testing is so massive and so good. >> that's a lie. >> far bigger and better than any other country. >> that's a lie. that's a lie. >> this is great news. >> that's a lie. >> but even better news is that death and the death rate is down. >> doctors are saying let's see what happens, because there's of course a 14-day lapse, sometimes a 21-day lapse. so let's hope the death rate stays down but we don't know that with all of the new infections. >> younger people who get better much easier and faster. okay, that's the president tweeting defined reality. yesterday admiral gerard, overseeing the nation's testing efforts told lawmakers this.
>> there is no question that the more testing you get the more you will uncover, but we do believe this is a real increase in cases because the percent positivities are going up so this is real increases in cases. >> all right. gene, obviously, the admiral said what even ron desantis has been saying. these numbers aren't going up because of testing. these numbers are going up because we're having an explosion and there is one thing that the president said that's not a complete and total lie. right now, early on, a lot of people are thinking -- a lot of the infections are being driven by younger people that are getting out and have gone out and perhaps younger people are getting that infection, let us hope that they are as resilient as the numbers suggest, but there are still older people getting this and hospitals that are getting jammed. so for the president to say what did he say, it is being handled,
doing very well. a complete and total lie and a continuation of the magical thinking that has led in part to this pandemic being so much worse than it was in europe or on any other continent. >> i know. it's astounding. it's astounding if you look at, you know, we've talked earlier on about how we have to flatten the curve, flatten the curve. well, in europe, all of the countries -- they had a terrible problem. they did a proper shutdown and they have reduced the rates of infections and the rates of death not to zero, but to pretty close to there. i mean, they have taken it all the way down. and now they can start to gingerly reopen. we never did that. in large part because we had a
president who denied the science, to actively worked against the scientists who worked for him in what they were saying the country should do. he employed magical thinking. he thought of his own re-election before he thought of the health and wellbeing of the country and as a result, we have -- we have for a while remained at this awful plateau and now the rate of infection is rising just to alarming levels, the rate of positivity in the tests in states where we're having these outbreaks in florida and texas and arizona, throughout the sun belt really, in california, the positivity rate is astronomical. it is -- it is awful. and yes, the death rates have
stayed low if you look at the seven-day moving averages. actually, they started to tick up a little bit. it's really worrisome. it's just -- let's hope they stay low, but it is true that younger people have tended not to die from covid-19. they do take the infection home to older people who -- where they liver who more likely to have fatal outcomes. and there are young people who are healthy, who have no pre-existing conditions who do suffer greatly and die from covid-19 and we don't understand exactly why that is. tomorrow is independence day, we
believe in american exceptional his. it is astounding, it is depressing, it is horrible. >> and it is astounding. i actually wrote about american exceptionlism as it pertains to the coronavirus. as i said then and still true now, america has the top doctors, many of the top doctors, top scientists, top universities, top research labs all here. obviously, the tech world revolves around silicon valley. over half of the nobel prize winners for science have been awarded since 1950 have come from the united states. there is no reason we should be doing as poorly as we're doing but so much of it is driven, mika, by this white house and an outright defiance -- a defiance where people are actually basking in ignorance.
they're baskings in actions that will actually hurt people they represent. i think of this mt. rushmore event and the governor saying we're not going to do social distancing. why don't you all say we're going to be smoking 12 packs of cigarettes, the kids 14 packs of cigarettes. it goes against what any doctor would say. yet, that's what they're doing. bragging about that and just like herman cain is bragging about that event. he went out to tulsa, wasn't wearing a mask. >> bragged about it. >> bragged about it. now he has covid. of course, there's no way to tell whether it's attached specifically to that event. but that's the sort of behavior, that's the sort of behavior that he was warned against. that everybody in that auditorium was warned against. so that is like smoking, you know, five packs of cigarettes every day your entire life and then being surprised if you
actually get lung cancer. and former obama adviser dan pfeiffer, mika, wrote an article yesterday saying he's looking -- with all of this -- at the two things that the trump re-election campaign is considering of a possible strategy. >> pfeiffer points out in recent weeks the trump campaign quietly began running ads that speak volumes about its plan to win. one hitting joe biden for his role in passing the 1994 crime bill and a spanish language ad falsely claiming the former vice president is in cognitive decline. pfeiffer theorizes the intent is to quote diminish overall black and latino turnout to make it easier to win the election with only white voters. in a close race, reducing turnout by a point or two could be decisive. the trump campaign isn't trying
to increase trump's vote total, just shrink biden's. the second strategy pfeiffer sees is going after biden's faculties. quote, a smear campaign to paint biden as cognitively unfit aims to push those voters toward a third party candidate or more likely to give up and sit out the election. we saw that second strategy playing out last night. earlier this week, a fox news reporter asks joe biden about whether he's been tested for cognitive decline. >> some have speculated -- >> you're a lying dog -- >> -- that you are subject to some degree of cognitive decline. i'm 65, i don't have word recollection that i used to. have i forget my train of thought from time to time. you have 12 years on me, sir. have you been tested for some degree of cognitive decline? >> i have been testing -- i'm constantly tested. look, all you have to do is
watch me and i can hardly wait to compare my cognitive capability to the cognitive capability of the man i'm running against. >> and replying last night to a breitbart article about biden's comments, trump tweeted, quote, he cannot pass the test i aced. >> he's still talking about that test. they show a picture of a lion and say what is this? that's what he's bragging about? >> here's in the cognitive test that he claimed he aced. as "the new york times" explained back in 2018 to assess attention and concentration, subjects are read a list of five digits and are asked to repeat them in the order they were provided. other exercises include drawing a clock with the hands pointing to 11, 10 and then identifying a lion, rhino or a camel. a perfect score is 30.
a score from 26 to 30 is considered normal. >> and two years later, he is bragging about being able to identify a lion or a rhino or a camel. >> second, once again, this is why saying biden is suffering from mental decline is not a winning strategy for the president. >> i know words, i had the best words. in 1870, president grant -- that beautiful -- the badge. our nation as a sovereign country. a lot of work has been done. a lot of -- if you look at some of it. missiles. your devotion -- you will gain momentum. heroin alone -- the federal government is conducting an
aggressive investigation. and to de-legitimize. it meant something. really anonymous -- you will see some statistics coming out. americans of all walks of lice -- the surgeon general adams. heart, lung and liver transpants. advising lawmakers -- the supply chain. this russian thing with trump. i hope they look at the oranges -- the oranges of the investigation. the beginnings. every single car out there, even the really expenses ones. we had -- i think we had radio for europe. the invasion of normandy and the liberalation of europe. the eastwisemen traveled far.
to be a sanctuary for criminal. shelter criminal -- look, look, wait. the americans of our armed forces -- you understand that very well. and the internate if you think about this. rich traditions -- of this peninsula. expectations in the house for the midtown and mid turn year. pay all applicable state taxes -- central command, crisp response and crisis response. president roosevelt -- as hurricane erma approaches. he voted for obama amnesty. that's what the united nations is all about. will not be tolerated any longer. merry christmas, everybody. we have to say it. we just started another shock rocket -- you saw that.
and to replace chasms of distrust. ever foistered upon the american people. then they announced -- seek real bipartisan solutions. made a pivot -- really i mean this was pivotal. we authorized the 9/elective victims. our army -- it ran the ramparts. our embassies in kenya and tanzania. it's great to be back in missouri. nam bia. thank the minneapolis police. by venezuela -- working to improve this country and -- and god bless the united states. thank you very much. thank you. >> okay. hard to watch. donny deutsch, we could fill the whole show with these.
it doesn't seem like the best strategy to be going after joe biden about. >> no. you know, i know there was a cognitive test that showed a rhino, a camel and a lion. joe, you know, that donald watches this show all the time so i have a new one for him to look at. this is a cat, and if you're watching at home that's c-a-t, cat, donald. donald trump can pull a lot of tricks, well, there's four months to go until the election look at what happened last time. we've got four months to the election but we're now entering the 57th month out of a 60-month experiment with donald trump. he is baked at this point. joe biden is baked at this point. when you look at the 2016 election, you had donald trump who was an unknown. hillary a known. now we've got two knowns. and none of this stuff is going
to work. it is just -- it's a pathetic attempt -- people are not stupid. just like they're not stupid about their health. they're just not stupid and, joe, i want to go back to something you teed up last week that i have been thinking all week. i would not be shocked at some point if he doesn't drop the mic. it's not turning around. this is a guy that i cannot see standing up and owning the biggest land slide defeat in u.s. history. i know you have been throwing it out in, a lot of people are saying it's -- no, that's not possible. but the more i think about it, the more i'm jumping on your bandwagon. i don't see this guy going the distance. >> well, i don't know it's my bandwagon. i have been talking to people that are actually close to him who have speculated for some time that rather than lose a huge election, huge landslide loss, that he would walk away. sort of do what lbj did, because when people talk about lbj and
politics they talk about his landslide victory in 1964, but not him leaving in 1968. and he does not want to get beaten, you know, by -- by biden getting close to 400 electoral votes and you look at the polls. i don't know if people close to him are lying to him, but he's behind in georgia, texas is tied. even i read that even some gop pollsters are talking about the problems he's struggling in kansas. struggling in kansas. this is shaping up to be a historic landslide. so i don't understand why he would hang on especially because the coronavirus just keeps getting worse and here's the worst part for him. and the worst part for his campaign. he said that the virus wasn't going to come back in the fall. that it was going to be gone. you know, that's when the second wave starts.
that's when doctors and epidemiologists and scientists say it's actually going to be at its worst. if you look at the 1918 pandemic it was at its worst. so he'll never be able to wish this pandemic away and as the death rate raises, as the infection rate rises, his poll numbers go down. and he has to know that. so susan del percio, dan pfeiffer had a good column on what donald trump might try to do to go after joe biden, but none of the attacks work. it was like hillary clinton trying to attack donald trump for not being honest and trustworthy. they both had low numbers in that area, for different reasons. but he can't attack joe biden on cognitive decline because there's 30 more minutes of clips just like the ones that mika played and he can't do the other
line of attack which is china because of what he said on january the 24th about how china was doing so wonderfully and how much he liked president xi and of course john bolton's book as well, talking about how he asked china to rig the election for him. >> yeah. and the on thing donald trump knows how to do is attack and, you know, we talk a lot about how he projects on this show. let's not forget he attacked hillary clinton on a health issue which didn't work. when you look at what you just showed us as far as donald trump, there was a combination of misspeaking but there was something very damning about the slurring as much slurring as he did with his words, combined with his holding the water. if you think about it or going down the ramp. he obviously has some issues and we haven't seen any report -- i mean, we know the last health report he had checkup wasn't necessarily truthful, but we haven't seen that from him. so i wonder where that is. but donald trump needs a third strategy because as you said,
going towards trying to keep voter turnout down of minorities isn't going to work. why? because the democrats have seen that 2016 playbook. they'll make up for that. obviously the health care issue is not going to work against biden. he has to do something he can't be able to do -- stay reserved and try to come one a strategy and show what he's capable of on the economy. because that's the only inkling of a place that he can go to that he still is somewhat strong on. >> you know the problem though also is in trying to depress minority turnout, the lack of turnout for black voters is you look at what he -- you look what he said, gene, what he said just over the past week or so when he learned that -- by watching "morning joe" that black lives matter was going to be painted on fifth avenue. he said it was a hateful thing
to do i forget the exact words. but then he talked about ending legislation that would desegregate housing. ending federal legislation to end the housing, taking us back to 1964. then a video talking about white power that doesn't work either. he is boxed in and one other thing, gene. i just saw gallup announced that more americans support immigration today than have supported immigration since they started asking that question half a century ago. we talked about this before on the show, gene. donald trump has actually caused the opposite reaction than what he wanted to cause. he has made people more accepting in polls of
immigration, more accepting of black lives matter, more accepting of diversity in this country. >> yeah, he has actually increased support for immigration in this country and for the first time we see that more people, you know, support more immigration than want less immigration. and that has not been the case before donald trump. so exactly the opposite effect. and the idea that he wants to depress black turnout and then he takes the sort of antebellum literally position he is taking on this reckoning with race and systemic racism that we're having now, claims it doesn't exist. he -- you know, he claims that
writing black lives matter on fifth avenue is defiling this luxury avenue. and taking the side of confederate generals over the nation that they traitorously fought against in an attempt to try to perpetuate slavery. i mean, it's just -- that is not going to depress black turnout. that is going to drive black turnout and i -- you know, i'll bet a whole lot of money on that. so these two sort of elements of the strategy do not work together and that doesn't -- it's grasping at straws, really. i mean, they're looking at -- for some way he could potentially pull this out and so far, they're not finding it. >> sure what it feels like. still ahold on "morning joe" for president trump the month of june started off with a highly
criticized photo-op outside of a church and ended with questions about russian bounties on u.s. troops. nbc's carol lee joins us with her reporting on president trump's very, very bad month. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i thought i was managing... ...my moderate to severe crohn's disease. yes! until i realized something was missing... ...me. you ok, sis? my symptoms kept me- -from being there for my sisters. "...flight boarding for flight 2007 to chicago..." so i talked to my doctor and learned- ...humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief... -and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,- -, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor... ...if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections...
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trump wants to declare his health crisis over and unemployment is down. unfortunately, he's deadly wrong on both fronts. we have already had more than 128,000 dead and the number keeps climbing. that's a direct consequence of donald trump's bungled leadership and the total mismanagement of the crisis from the start. >> all right. let's bring in carol lee from the white house. joe biden's message is pretty clear and he's sticking to it. i'm just wondering where the white house is this morning,
carol, in terms of how much their multiple messages defy reality. whether it's the coronavirus or the economy or scandal like russian bounty. do they understand they're running uphill, very steep uphill or are they in tune with these messages? >> i think it's the former. there's a lot of people around the president who understand that they're running uphill, mika. and it's -- if you just take coronavirus in and of itself, there's a growing concern -- it used to be the president was on one side and the medical experts were on the other and there was debate within the administration in that sense. now that's really broadened. you have a number of people around the president increasingly concerned this is going to get worse and the biggest liability is the president unable to get on a message and that he keeps undermining efforts by saying things like the virus might just disappear which they all dread
when he says. and saying that this is all because of testing. and so, you know, they had a really bad june and a lot of it was self-inflicted by the president. there was a recognition of that here at the white house. and there's a hope that they can turn the page in july, particularly after july 4th. i think you will see them focus on things like the low death rate for coronavirus, for instance. the coronavirus task force meetings are coming back and there will be more briefings, but again, they can do that all they want. is the president going to get on board because every time the president's team comes up with a plan on how to message on this, how to convey the seriousness of this, he comes in and undermines that. >> well, a great example of that, carol, of course this weekend when he tweets a white power video and people in the administration are retweeting it. >> what a mess. >> he's always been very difficult to manage.
he's always been very difficult to handle. do you get a sense from talking to your sources inside the white house that things are getting worse? >> well, in terms of the white power incident, joe, we reported earlier this week that there was a real scramble and they couldn't reach him on the golf course to take the tweet down. they couldn't get into his twitter account to remove it. so it took as you said several hours. i think what the recognition is look, donald trump having a bad week, having a bad stretch the tale is as old as time, since the campaign came into office really. happening four months before the election is making people worried. he can't afford to have these sorts of stretches because it's so close to the election, and there's just a frustration that they keep having -- it's groundhog day. they keep having the same conversations, the same approach and they have a principal who won't get on board with what
they want to do. >> all right. nbc's carol lee, thank you so much from the white house and donny, it's a bunch of self-inflicted wounds and they're obvious wounds. i can't repeat this again because it just shows how illogical every move he's making is. how self-defeating every move he's making. whether you talk about on the coronavirus, he sides with the 20% of americans that want to make wearing masks a culture war. while 80% of americans want the masks to be worn because they want to stay healthy. they want businesses to open up. goldman sachs was talking about how if everybody wore a mask, just the hundreds of billions of dollars it can save this economy. this is -- this is about business. this is about health. this is -- and he's on the wrong side of that. we have talked about, you know, he was pushing to reopen schools a month or two ago when 80% of
parents said they would not send their parents back to school. you can talk about the race issues where 80% of americans believed that the marches were justified. donald trump is on the other side of it. again, just put everything aside as far as what's the right thing to do, what's the moral thing to do and just look at the politics of it. and every single day he's hurting his own cause. every single day he's damaging the re-election prospects of republican senators in swing states. every single day he's moving this country more close -- he's -- donald trump is, he's moving this country closer to a washington that's going to be controlled by democrats next year. >> yeah. you know, that character that we know as donald trump it's interesting. the 2016 election, nothing stuck with him about his character.
you know, just the difference now is his character is affecting us. his character is causing deaths by not doing what's right. his character is causing the economy to be where it is because of his nonreaction. his character is inflaming race relations so it was an abstract thing in the past. now everything he's doing, every wrong move does not sit isolated. it affects you, our families, our grandparents and grand children and i keep coming back to -- i see this in an ending, we have not thought about. i don't see him going the distance. it is a suicide mission he's running. and stay tuned for the next three or four months because i think history will be written in ways we haven't seen it before. >> you know, that's what i think. that's why this pandemic has been different from everything else. like you know he can lie about his personal life and he did. he can lie about payoffs to porn
stars that were crimes and he did lie about that. he can lie about robert mueller. he could lie about what he did or didn't do with russia. he could lie about russia. he could lie about almost everything. he could lie about ukraine. americans are like, okay, he's not a good guy. the stock market is doing well, my retirement is doing well, my small business is doing well. i'll let everybody yell about that on cable news, i'm worried about my business. my small business is doing better than it's been, so that's fine. americans that supported him could move that to the side. this pandemic though impacts everybody. this pandemic impacts people in blue state, red state, republicans, democrats, independents. we have said it all along he can't lie about it. as i have said for how many months, i don't know how many months now. when he lies about the pandemic, a senior citizen in arizona, a
working mom in florida, a single dad in wisconsin, they're going to go to their doctor and going say, what do i do here? i have got -- i hear the president saying that this is a media generated hoax. what do i do here? and the doctor will tell them to be careful. i wonder how many doctors are pleased that a governor of a state is bragging about the fact that there's not going to be social distancing. bragging about the fact there aren't going to be masks worn. bragging about the fact they're going to do everything that the medical community has begged them not to do. you see, that as ross perot used to say, that's where the rubber meets the road that's where it's shouted out from the mountaintops. that's where donald trump can't outrun his lies because they're
having a serious impact on the health of americans. >> the pandemic forces the truth to come out and the truth in this case hurts everybody equally. coming up, nearly a year after convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein's death in the new york jail cell, one of his closest associates is now in custody. we're going to talk about the charges she faces next on "morning joe." out the charges she faces next on "morning joe." ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past... they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. let's help protect them together. because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.
confidante gill lain maxwell is behind bars now after she was arrested thursday on charges related to child sex trafficking. maxwell arrested for recruiting young girls. she was taken into custody in bradford, new hampshire, where she was living on an estate purchased late last year. she was ordered transported to new york where she was charged with four counts related to transporting minors for sexual activity between 1994 and 1997 as well as two counts of perjury for lying in a deposition in 2016. >> maxwell played a critical role in helping epstein to identify, befriend and groom minor victims for abuse. in some cases maxwell participated in the abuse
herself. >> the indictment lists three unnamed victims who were minors when allegedly recruited by maxwell in the 1990s. prosecutors are asking that maxwell be held without bail. arguably she poses an extreme flight risk. maxwell has previously denied any wrongdoing but did not enter a plea thursday. her attorney declined to comment when contacted by nbc news. joining us now, state attorney for palm beach county dave aaron bern. >> obviously you're well aware of this case. a lot of epstein's activities occurred in palm beach before you were the state attorney, but what can you tell us about ms. maxwell, what you know of this case and what we can expect? >> joe, a lot of us were wondering what took so long because she was jeffrey epstein's chief enabler. she also was a participant. without her, this whole criminal
pyramid scheme of sexual abuse could not have happened because if jeffrey epstein himself sought to recruit and groom these 14-year-old girls, they would have told this creepy old guy to get lost but instead they had this charming, sophisticated british woman with a great accent to make these girls feel at home, to make them feel comfortable. that was the key to this criminal enterprise which is why she needed to be prosecuted. there's questions of why it took so long. to defend the prosecutors, she made herself hard to find. she bought a 156 acre parcel in new hampshire and hid out. she tried to put some misdirection out there by leaking a photo of her that was clearly staged at an in and out burger in los angeles. she department want to be found. she paid cash for her property. she bought it through an anonymous limited liability
company. i'm glad they tracked her down and hopefully justice will be done. >> so in terms of justice being done, dave, what is the possibility that she could be helpful in bringing light to the other men involved in abusing young girls, not young women, girls, and the powerful men that jeffrey epstein often socialized with and many believe provided these girls for through ghislaine maxwell. >> she has every incentive to cooperate because she doesn't want to spend 35 years in prison. her leverage in this case to cut a deal, a lot of it died along with jeffrey epstein because when you are a criminal defendant, you want to find a bigger fish to flip on and if you can't find one, that means
the biggest fish is you. now she will try to give the feds some evidence, but the feds are going to want concrete facts, not just her testimony, because she is accused of serious crimes. she doesn't have a lot of credibility in court. plus she's being charged with two counts of perjury. that further undermines her perjury. she will try to offer herself up, but i've got to believe the feds are going to be very critical of her in any deal she tries to accomplish with them. >> except one thing. >> yeah. >> a lot of secrets of a lot of very powerful men died with jeffrey epstein. you talk about big fish, a lot of big fish were flopping around jeffrey epstein and ms. maxwell for years. is it possible if she can be protected in prison, if the guards will actually watch her
in prison -- >> there's that. >> -- is it possible that these very powerful pen, some of tmen could be brought to justice themselves if she turns evidence on them? >> yes. i hope that everyone involved in this is held accountable. all the enablers, all the accomplices, everyone. she will have every incentive to provide evidence, but it can't just be her testimony because her testimony is not good enough. she doesn't have the credibil y credibility. she needs to provide business records or hard facts. otherwise, they're not going to build a case around someone like this stmpt possible? the feds are going in there with a skeptical eye. for her sake she better believe she has that treasure trove of
data. >> interesting. state attorney for palm beach county. thank you very, very much. still ahead. the circumstances under which the president loses the election but uses the justice department to stay in power? we'll run through that scenario. and why some think it could very well happen. "morning joe" is coming up. >> i don't, by the way, but we'll see. we'lsel e.
it's going to disappear. it's like a miracle. one day it will disappear. >> i think at some point it's just going to disappear, i still hope. >> you still believe that? >> i do. i do. >> city hospitals are two to three weeks away from running out of essential medical supplies. that is the big concern across the country. >> how is it possible for more than five months into this crisis our country is still facing the possible shortage of
30 million n-95 masks this month? >> willie, we saw a senator say, no, you can't get tests right now if you need them. that's important, that the truth start being told like that. dr. fauci said the same thing yesterday. said it was a failing. last night sean hannity asked azar, secretary azar when can every american get a test if they want a test? secretary a zar answered the question. >> skyrocketing demand for testing. this week it started off with 30 names. now it's more than 200 patients long. >> the family clinic has been open for testing for about three months now. in recent weeks lines have snaked through the parking lot, people waiting for hours to get tested. >> giovanni salizar and his family waiting in line to get tested. >> we thought we were going to be here for two hours, three,
we're heading towards five, six hours now. >> there are reports they're running out of tests in parts of florida as well. it's getting worse. the president is saying it's fixed. it's getting worse by the day. >> what a difference four months have not made. there are still some difficulties getting tested. front line workers are still struggling to get proper ppe and president trump is still waiting for a miracle. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, july 3rd. susan dell percepercio and mike barnacle and former house oversight committee house spokesperson, now a "morning joe" contributor kurt bardella who is announcing he will be joining the lincoln project as a senior advisor working with its communications and rapid response team. good to have you all on board.
the u.s. recorded its highest number of new cases in a single day for the third day in a row yesterday. more than 56,000 cases. according to nbc news data, florida, georgia, south carolina all broke their state's individual records for the most new cases in a single day. texas, california, and alabama all recorded their second highest people notes. it's the 25th consecutive day that florida has set a record high in its seven-day rolling average. as texas scram nls to get its coronavirus surge under control, governor greg abbott issued an executive order requiring people to wear face coverings in public. the move marks a major reversal for abbott who in april blocked local officials from penalizing people who don't wear masks.
>> good move. >> the order which takes effect today at noon requires anyone over the age of 10 to wear face coverings inside of businesses and other buildings or spaces outside in public. it requires masks outside in public. >> it's good news he's actually moved in the right direction, mika. >> yeah. >> i hope others will follow that example. learning from his mistakes. >> then there's this. nearly two weeks, two weeks after attending president trump's campaign rally in tulsa, herman cain has been hospitalized with coronavirus. the 74-year-old former pizza chain executive who ran in the republican presidential primary in 2012 was hospitalized wednesday after testing positive on monday. according to a statement, cain's treatment does not require a ventilator at this time. while it is unclear how he contracted the deadly virus,
cain was seen maskless and not socially distancing at trump's june 20th rally in tulsa which drew less than expected crowds but skrushcrushed 6,000 people together. they wanted everyone together so the crowd would look bigger and those people were all exposed just like herman cain who tweeted this picture himself. on the same day he took to twitter to shame mask wearers, praised trump's lack of one at tomorrow's fourth of july event. >> all right. >> terrible. we hope he's okay. >> well, yeah. we'll be thinking about him and hope that he'll be okay and hope that when he recovers he'll wear a mask. if you look at the top states being impacted by the coronavirus, it's all across the sunbelt from california to
florida, but you look at these states. most of them are very competitive state in the upcoming election. florida, texas, not california but georgia, arizona, not south carolina but there is an interesting race for senator in south carolina between jamie harrison and lindsey graham. but every day that we have record infections in these states, florida, texas, georgia, arizona, these competitive states is a day that donald trump moves further away from re-election because this is a guy that told them it was one person coming in from china and it was going to go away. he told them that in january and february. he said this was 15 people. soon it's going to be going away. in march he said that -- told republican senators to relax, everyone was going to be okay, it was going to go away.
he continues to tell us even this week telling us it's going to disappear, but while people in florida, texas, arizona, georgia, california could look at this as a new york problem in the past, as these infections explode and as businesses have to shut down again in these states, it's going to have a negative impact on donald trump's political prospects because he's the one that is going into his ear and now saying it's going to magically disappear. >> infections, joe, we can all read the reports, infections are up in a majority of the states in this country. i think it's 40 out of 50 states the infection rate is up. and many of the infection rates
in various states, as you just pointed out, those states touched the core of donald trump's constituency. for months this epic, epic incompetence has been led by donald trump. that's the only thing he's led. he's provided no guidance. he's provided no leadership. he has said it's going to disappear overnight. don't worry about it. we've got it under control. there's minut plenty of tests. if you want a test, you can get a test. blah, blah, blah. people are smart. i feel terrible for anyone who contracts the virus. there's another virus that the whole country is dealing with on a daily basis, and it's the virus of donald trump's incompetence, personality, lack of character in terms of leading this critical, critical medical emergency that we're still in the middle of.
donnie deutsch, we've known donald trump for a long time. we've always known him to be a selfish, self-interested man who would do what was in his best interest and not care about much else but, again, everything he's doing every day hurts him. it's a self-inflicted wound for him. that's what i just don't understand. he has to -- even if as people close to him say, even if his cognitive abilities have gone down considerably, we've noticed it through the years, he still the, i would think, could grasp how he's damaging himself and his campaign every day by continuing to deny the medical realities of this pandemic. but he can't get out of his way.
why? >> the only kind of psychological explanation i can give, not being a doctor, only playing one on tv, he is -- the level of narcissism that he cannot move off of where he was. i am right, everybody else is wrong. every poll is wrong. i am right. every advisor is right. the polls are so stunning whether it's 75, 80% we're on the wrong track, whether it's every poll how to handle corona and he's doing the exact opposite. even in the deepest red states. there is no logic other than the one that i keep coming back to that you've thrown out there. he doesn't want to win, he doesn't want to be there anymore. there's no explanation. we could get 100 of the greatest pundits in the world, 100 psychologists. there is no explanation. the only rational explanation is an irrational one. this guy come november 2nd, november 3rd on some level doesn't want to be there.
i can't come up with it. i've known him for 20 years. it denies every logical explanation. >> there are republicans who say that, the guy doesn't want to win. vice president mike pence's trip to arizona this week needed to be postponed by a day after several secret service agents who helped organize the visit either tested positive for covid-19 or were showing symptoms of infection. not sure how many times they say he went back to phoenix. he waited until thursday for healthy agents to replace the ones who were either sick or most likely sick. arizona has seen a spike in cases in recent weeks and pence scaled back the trip before the delay because of the growing amount of infections in the
state. this is the second time in recent weeks that secret service agents preparing for a white house or trump campaign event outside of washington have contracted the virus. in a statement to nbc news they wrote in part, quote, the health and safety, is that it doesn't go the other way around. apparently trump and the campaign, they don't care about the health of the advance teams because they keep doing this. this is the hot stove. they keep putting their hand on it. people get sick when they expose themselves. >> before the tulsa rally donald trump was enraged when word leaked that six people, six advance people on his team actually caught covid-19. >> as the advance team was
taking stickers off chairs so that people don't socially distance, the stickers were helping people separate in the audience of that arena and instead they took them off and had people crushed together. >> yeah. >> so they could breathe on each other. >> sam stein, again, the result of this is it so obvious. you look at this monmouth poll that came out yesterday. it's yet another national poll showing joe biden with a double digit lead. yesterday's lead was 12 points. he was leading 53% to 40%. i guess we could say that was shocking except for the fact that donald trump keeps doing things that seem to be targeted to actually bring about these sort of results. >> yeah. sometimes you've got to step back and marvell at the stupidity or irrationality of
some of the things the president does. i think the tulsa rally is a prime example. if you think about it, he endangered the physical safety of his own supporters, of his own staff to stroke his own ego basically. he wanted a rally, he wanted a boistrous rally. he didn't want to look at people wearing masks. he defied local ordinance so he could have a rally. in any other circumstance that would be a massive scandal. if it does turn out it ended up being a spreader event, that should be a massive scandal. this is sort of the reality we live in. i don't know if i'd agree with donnie's point that he doesn't want to be there. i think he looks at this as a pr problem. just this morning he's talking about how great it is that we have all these cases because it proofs we have a great testing regime. that's insane. obviously the virus is growing
and he wants to spin it and he doesn't want to do the actual action of governance. people look at this and they say, he's not actually taking it seriously. the office of the vice president this week sent around photos of the coronavirus task force meeting to show the work they were doing, 16 photos taken from 16 different meetings over the course of two months and not one single photo was the president actually present, not in person, not on teleconference. he just wasn't there. at this most existential everyward hangs on. he doesn't want to deal with the actual governance. that's what's facing him and hurting him in the polls. >> early on he declared himself a war time president he's walked off the battlefield after going out for one or two days, looking
around, and then deciding that there wasn't anything good in it for him. >> yeah. >> so, yeah, he has left the battlefield. and he'll hold rallies, susan delpercio, even if it causes harm to those who attend the rallies. alex reminded me of another windsor man trumpism. most people hold them to get elected and donald trump holds them so he can hold rallies. he'll continue to hold them even if they become super spreader events. >> because donald trump does not care about anybody but donald trump. we see it, how he doesn't care about americans at home with his handling of the coronavirus. we see that he doesn't care about our soldiers abroad with ignoring intelligence reports that there are bounties on their heads by the russians. donald trump brings up a really good plan, looks at everything
as a problem. when cases were spiking, there were so many people, it was there and so obvious 2kru678 had to respond, especially when he started seeing bodies literally in the streets. now you look at the coronavirus and it's more like a virus creep because this is coming from younger people right now, it's spreading out and eventually it will take hold of older folks and have a broader base, which is going to be a problem for donald trump because it's going to hit rural areas as a result who are completely unprepared for that. joe, in the first three months, march 1st to the end of may, florida had about 56,000 cases. in one month alone, from june to july it has over 160,000. now once people start focusing on that and how much this can spread, that's when donald trump is going to have to respond because it will be a pr problem
when these hospitals are over their maximum capacity. >> as those numbers explode in flo florida, a huge number in florida over the past month. you can't help but look back at donald trump supporters bragging about what an incredible job ron desantis did. ron desantis going out yelling with mike pence next to him basically demanding an apology. other people demanding apologies for the governor of georgia acting like total fools. we've said all along and we've said it because we actually listen to doctors and epidemiologists, we're in the second and third inning of this ball game. you don't celebrate because what happened in the second and third inning but there was ron desantis after he had a bloop single into left field that he accidentally hit off of his bat
and holding a press conference and demanding people apologize to him and then say what a great job he's doing. it will continue in florida, arizona, georgia, texas, other states that are up in the air right now. that's why what donnie was saying about donald trump, looking at these numbers skyrocketing and saying, you know what, i built the best economy ever. i never get credit that i deserve from the media, never get credit from people even in my own party, i've done a great job. i'm going to leave it to you all from here. we'll see if he does it or not. there's no way he can compete against the rising numbers in every state. you're talking about 150,000 infections in the state of florida over a short period of time. 150,000 in one state, the most
important swing state. what donald trump calls his home state. this is a guy who said in january this was one person coming in from china and it was going to be fine. he's called it wrong for six months. he can't survive that politically, whether you love him or hate him. >> and they moved the convention to florida. >> he moved the convention to florida from north carolina. jacksonville. if you look at some polls, people in jacksonville don't want that there. some of trump's own people are now questioning whether they can even hold an event in jacksonville. >> not a smart idea. >> curt, susan brought up and we've been talking about this pandemic because it's such a huge story, but there's another huge story that really, really does, i think, encapsulate more so than anything we've seen other than maybe that helsinki press conference, how obsequious
donald trump is to vladimir putin once again choosing the word of an ex-kgb agent over his entire intel community. donald trump frantically doing everything he can do to not have to condemn the russians and vladimir putin for putting bounties on the heads of young american soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines. i think back to your oversight committee. you talk about the obsession they had on benghazi. where are all those republicans now that we have found out that vladimir putin is putting bounties on the heads of american sfloops where is marco rubio? has he condemned russia? has mitch mcconnell condemned russia? have republican leaders that are
running those companies? ve they know it's legitimate. they've seen the intel. how incredible is this after seeing how fran tis republicans were over benghazi for years? >> reporter: you know, joe, i watched firsthand as the entire republican party spent the better part of five years investigating benghazi because they were outraged that four american diplomats had lost their lives in a terrorist attack in benghazi. i watched how the jim jordans, the marco rubios, lindsey graham's used every ounce of their congressional authority, to target the then democratic nominee hillary clinton, to have hearings, depositions, investigations all under the
gu guise that they cared about the troops, lives, safety and security of our american personnel abroad that it warranted the full attention of the united states congress. here we are with intelligence, with briefings, with evidence that there is a foreign power that has put a target on the heads of american soldiers and republicans are mia and playing for time. they're calling for, well, we need to get more facts. we need to be reserved. we need to be diligent here. where was that reservation when benghazi was going on? all of a sudden they don't want to be the ones that are rushing to judgment. they don't want to be the ones calling a spade a spade. they're doing everything they can to protect donald trump and it's more of what we've seen. the story is that, losing any
fortitude, moral fabric that they enable a president that in my opinion has been in immoral conduct. 50,000 people a day are getting sick. 100,000 plus are dead. all the while this president and this party want to embrace this ridiculous, basically the make america sick again tour as he and the vice president gala vant around the country getting their own people sick. if donald trump won't protect the people closest to him, his staff, his employees, colleagues, he sure as heck isn't going to care about anybody else. when you look at what's going on with russia, think about the lincoln project ad that they put out the other day. donald trump's looking out for soldiers, it's just not ours. i don't know how anybody at this poi point. no matter what ideology you subscribe to, i don't understand
how in front of our very eyes anybody can say, this is the person that should be leading our country right now. republicans had the right thing to do the right thing in january, end this ridiculousness, tyranny and they looked the other way. i think there will be a major reckoning in november. voters aren't going to for bet it. i don't think they're going to forgive this party either. >> well, more and more republicans are coming to that conclusion, curt. mike barnacle, mitch mcconnell did say a few days back, nobody should be surprised that russia is doing this. they'll do anything they can to sort of stick it to us. also said they shouldn't come to the g7. we haven't heard condemnation for the president not speaking out for our young truth who now
have bounties on their head. maybe there have been some republican senators in leadership positions that have done that, but i certainly haven't heard it from kevin mccarthy. certainly haven't heard -- marco rubio runs a pretty important committee. i haven't heard anything from him. you certainly would have heard if this were hillary clinton f this were joe biden you would hear something but, again, dead silence. and it is going to be such a historical black mark next to their names for their silence at this time when our troops' lives are in danger. >> joe, you know, we're on the eve of the fourth of july, the birthday of the united states of america. normally a great and wondrous holiday. people have a lot of fun. picnics.
fireworks. the whole deal. it's muted this year, as it has been for the past couple of years. we are living through a position in history called the trump presidency. everything he's touched and affected he's done it in a negative way. the economy was booming and building prior to his election. let's set that aside. but what he has done with his lack of character and his lack of ability in doing the job is truly, truly tragic. we've been talking now for most of the morning, most of the week, most of the past six months, maybe the past three years about the link between donald trump and russia. at some point history will open this door for us. history will give us an insight into exactly what the link is. russia declared war on the united states of america nearly
four years ago when they decided to attack our electoral system. they are still recording it and this time they are paying to kill our marines, soldiers, our people, our young men. that's going on in front of us. as you just eluded to, practically the entire senate has pushed the mute button on this outrage, the mute button on the number of people in this country dead because of a virus that we've seen has been leaderless from the oval office. he has not shown up to lead. he has not stood up in front of the cameras and addressed the united states of america, all of us, and what the plan is for the future. >> can you imagine, mika, what republican senators would be saying --
>> no. >> -- if vladimir putin were paying thousands and thousands of dollars to islamic militants to kill u.s. troops? what would they say if a democratic commander in chief remained quiet about that? the impeachment proceedings would begin immediately and yet they say absolutely nothing. >> there is an obvious response to this, that it's intolerable, horrific, incomprehensible, unpatriotic, it must stop if it's true. where are these republicans? can't they even comment on the very well corroborated report? are they so scared? >> still? still? a guy who is going down in defeat? what are they scared of? >> he's actually taking
incumbent senators with him in montana, maine, north carolina, probably in one or two other states. what are you still afraid of? >> curt bardella, the newest member of the lincoln project team, thank you very much for being on with us this morning. donny deutsch, thank you as well. still in that t-shirt. still ahead on "morning joe," how trump could lose the election and still remain president? we'll explain the argument behind that scenario ahead. plus, senate minority leader chuck schumer is our guest this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ack. apps are used everywhere...
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tom rodgers. plus tim wurth of colorado. they have a new piece out called how trump could lose the election and still remain president. >> all right. tom -- >> okay. >> -- explain it to us. how could that happen? >> well, joe, you've been saying he's not running like he wants to win and one possibility is he just drops out of the place. the other one that the senator and i looked at is he knows he's going to lose but he's going to hold on to office. that may sound really farfetched but this is how it happens. biden wins. i don't just mean the popular vote, he wins the key swing states, he wins the electoral college. president trump says there's been a chinese interference in the election. he's been talking about biden's soft on china. china wanted biden to win so he says a national emergency. the chinese have intervened in the election. why do i think that's real? just ten days ago he tweeted, he actually tweeted, rigged 2020
election. millions of mail-in ballots will be printed by foreign countries. it will be the scandal of our times. so he's laying the groundwork for this. suh he does an investigation and barr backs this up with all kinds of legal opinions about emergency powers that the president has that ed luce yesterday on your show talked about. then what happens is it's all geared towards december 14th. why december 14th? well, that's the deadline when the electors of the states have to be chosen. why is that key? because that's what the supreme court used in bush v gore to cut off the florida counting. they keep this national emergency investigation going through december 14th. biden, of course, challenges this in the courts. say, hey, won these states, i want the electors that favored me named. the supreme court doesn't throw the election to the republicans as it did in 2000, instead it says, look, there's a deadline here.
if they can't be certified in these states because of this investigation going on, there's a constitutional process for this. what's the constitutional process? it goes to the house of representatives. everybody says, that's good. nancy pelosi, democrats control the house. no, when a presidential election is thrown into the house of representatives under the constitution, it's state-by-state vote. each state gets one vote based on the number of republicans and 2ke democra democrats. today republicans include it 26-23 with pennsylvania split. even if pennsylvania was to elect a democratic delegation come this new election because it's the new congress that votes here, it would be 26/24 republicans and trump retains the presidency. it is not so farfetched. he is planning to do this. >> all right. so, senator, tom has laid out
the argument. what is the solution to that? >> there are two pathways of trump holding on to office. one is the electoral one which tom is talking about and the other one is really more severe, more dangerous, that's the invocation of his emergency powers. the president has vast emergency powers to shut off the internet, to declare a vast public health crisis, to, as tom says, disrupt elections in all kinds of ways and invoke the powers of the attorney general to do so. what are the defenses against this? you would say, the senate is the defense against it, the courts are a defense against it. i don't think we should depend on either of those. we certainly can't watching back at bush/gore, if it goes to the court and it goes to -- some kind of decisions go to the court and it has to be done very
quickly and you can't depend, i don't think, they would do anything except follow a pattern they did during bush/gore. you can't depend on the senate in their supine position for the last three years as any kind of a guardrail. so about the only guardrail that really exists is creating a vast citizen's fire wall which reaches out across the country to state, county, local governments, attorneys general, secretaries of state, business groups that can't stand the chaos that's coming from this -- from this disruption, from economic groups, citizen grassroots groups all understanding as much as possible, this is not only a possibility, a probability. donald trump is not going to go quietly into the night. he's not going to disappear and hang on himself to the label he
hates more than anything else, loser. he doesn't want to go down as "the biggest loser" in history. he's going to fight to stay in office. the biggest checks are very broad citizen action. that has to be put together by groups, first of all, becoming aware of what the prospects of this are. they are very real. we're hoping that the congress and committees of the house in particular will really focus on the emergency powers which the president has and each of the committees of jurisdiction can look at what can be done, what can adam schiff, should he be looking at, in bringing these powers out in front of people, what are those powers and how can they be used? rules has the same definition as does judiciary and using the time between now and early
august have a better answer. it's time to become aware of the need for this citizen's fire wall against the prospect of trump staying in office and using his power to do so. >> former senator tim wirth and tom rodgegers. joe, given the shock factor of this presidency, are you still skeptical? isn't anything possible with trump? >> i think anything's possible. i am -- i know you disagree with me here. i think we have shown our resilience as a country over the past four years and i go back to june 1st as the best example of that. our military men and women rose up, spoke out, did the right thing. the center held. sam stein, there is no doubt
this is being war games. what we just heard the senator and tom talk about, this was being war gamed. ed luce was on talking about organizations that were war gaming this. what would happen if donald trump lost the election and then tried to hold on to power. this is obviously something that many democrats, many progressives are concerned about. >> yeah. it's a little bit of political fan effect. it's a bit of whiplash because the last time we were talking about trump not making it to the election, now we're talking about him staying past the election. >> right. >> we'll go with it. if i'm going to step back and speak about this, i think generally speaking what these conversations expose is how much of the american political experience and enterprise is built on a consensus around accepting legitimacy of our institutions and results, that
there's no sort of -- the checks and balance system is there but it's also dependent upon people buying into it. if one person with an immense amount of political power, in this case the president, doesn't buy into it and decides to play by his own rules, he can go pretty far. we need obviously oversight. we need people in the political party to walk up to the white house and say enough is enough. at this juncture we're clearly seeing that's not happening. the question becomes how far can trump push it if he wants to? i don't necessarily believe he would do something like that, although like you said, joe. >> all right. let's bring in a member of the select committee on intelligence. democratic congressman shaun patrick maloney of new york.
>> thank you so much for being with us, congressman. what can you tell us about russia? what can you tell us about the investigations? what can you tell us about the intel reports that the white house has been getting for quite some time now? what can you tell us about what john bolton told the president last year when the president learned in february of 2019 of this plan of russia to have americans killed by islamic militants and profit off of it? >> well, obviously, you know the drill. i can't talk about the classified briefings i've had but, look, if you've read "the new york times," you've got enough to be upset about. these reports are deadly serious. the only question i have really is what are we doing about it? you know, we can chase our tail all day long about what was in the presidential daily brief, what the president knew, when he knew it, and that's important, but right now what are we doing about the fact that there are credible reports in "the new york times" that the russians
are putting bounties on the heads of our troops. that should make people pretty upset this fourth of july. >> mike barnacle, jump in. >> congressman, with regards to "the times" reports and "washington post" reports, you just said you find those reports credible, as most people do. my question to you is do you know, have you got a sense of what your republican colleagues on the intelligence committee or your republican colleagues in the house, what's their accepts of "the times," "the post's" reporting, credible, not credible? do you have any sense? >> please bear in mind the republicans have been boycotting every meeting of the intelligence committee since the pandemic. since we've done these virtual round tables and meetings, they
have been absent. yesterday was the first time they showed up and they did so to minimize these allegations. i think that's just so disappointing. i'm not saying that there aren't republican voices out there, liz cheney, kin singer, dan crenshaw, others, matt thorn berry, maybe mike mcall who understand if these reports are true, this is deadly serious. if you look at the partisan folks, people like devin nunez and others, they're following the white house lead. they want to minimize this and pretechbd it's not what it has been recordeds to be. look, we can see this with our own eyes on the pages of "the new york times" and i do think when the president is talking about withdrawing troops from germany, when he's trying to get russia back not g8 which is an exclusive club of the world's
largest economies, they were kicked out after they invaded the ukraine. it's a question, why in the hell is the president of the united states puckering up to putin when he ought to be sticking up for america. >> congressman, it's susan del percio. looking at these reports, they seem to be credible. we know the president has chosen not to acknowledge it. this intelligence comes from people on the ground so what's happening there? have they been told -- do we believe they've been told not to do anything? these commanders are responsible for men on the ground. they must be horrified by this, and to your point, what are we doing? what are they doing? and can they on the ground level do anything to protect our troops? >> that is a great question, susan. intelligence is most useful for forced protection, right? when you are in a theater of war, intelligence is critical to protecting your forces.
remember, we have drawn down to about 8600 forces in afghanistan, which makes us vulnerable because we have a smaller footprint. it's really critical. those are exactly the questions i have been asking and i have confidence the combatant comm d commanders need it and they need it as quickly as possible. i doesn't know fully the answer to your question, but we are drilling into that. i do want people to know combatant commanders don't mess around with this. they don't take the lives of their troops, you know, as something they can play around with. unfortunately, the commander in chief is out to lunch on this. >> member of the select committee on intelligence, congressman sean patrick maloney. thank you very much for coming on the show. happy fourth. >> i'm -- i think i have the book that sam stein wishes he had. for the record.
joining us now, nbc news international correspondent keir simmons. you have yemen's struggle as it attempts to survive a global pandemic and a civil war. what did you find? >> reporter: that's right, mika. it is such a big deal that you guys are airing the report that we're about to see. so important that you and your
executive producer alex have made time to air this because yemen is facing a serious crisis. it is hard to get even information out of never mind pictures we've worked with save the children and unicef to bring you this report because we can't go there. and it is our responsibility. just last year, president trump vetoed the bipartisan bill that would have stopped american support for the gulf states that are at war in yemen. and now yemen facing the coronavirus. 100,000 people have died. unicef predicting that 6,600 children will die in the next six months. even before coronavirus, few seemed to care about yemen. a failed intervention from america's allies, saudi arabia. all allowed to drag on.
now shattered from the horror of bombs and bullets, a humanitarian nightmare. yemenees are in a fight for survival against a new kind of death, a silent and invisible killer. >> we talk about coronavirus hitting particularly people with pre-existing conditions. in yemen, the entire country has a pre-existing condition. >> you're talking about a situation where people are already poor. 80% of the population is already poor. below the poverty line. >> 10-month old amir is one of them. while the world was in lockdown, he made a 150 mile journey across the desert by bus with his mother to a hospital in saman. his diarrhea was getting worse and he was losing weight, his mom says. amir, suffering from malnutrition, the doctor the tells us he's lucky he made it
to the hospital. half already shut down by the coronavirus. many have been closed and used for quarantine, he says. they're used to take care of children, perform surgeries and internal medicine. it's a real problem. but it's not just the children. like so many around the world, this coronavirus patient is in an isolation unit. but this is rare for yemen, not because there are few facilities here, but because there are is on so few places for treatment and testing. how many infections there are is virtually impossible to know. nobody is counting. but the rows and rows of graves they're digging might be a terrible clue. and it's just the beginning. johns hopkins figures show that 27% of yemenees who contract coronavirus are dieing. five times the global average. >> many are 16 million yemenees could get coronavirus. >> 16 million. >> 16 million.
we're talking about almost 10 million people with access to safe drinking water. >> and yet in march, up to $73 million in aid was cut. the u.s. agency for international development calling it a, quote, difficult decision. but in may, after an outcry from the aid community, secretary pompeo announced $225 million in emergency food aid. while for five years the u.s. has provided military intelligent and logistical support to saudi arabia, support that has had deadly consequences. in 2018, a saudi war plane dropped a bomb on a school bus in northern yemen. it killed 44 children. it's a war that has turned yemen
into the greatest humanitarian crisis in the world and now coronavirus could mean catastrophe. >> in yemen, the health system wasn't coping even before coronavirus arrived. >> exactly. and you have now a system where health workers aren't paid. you don't have the infrastructure. you don't have the equipment and supplies. and so what we're talking about here is sheer life and death. we're talking about grappling to ensure that we can grasp these -- these children before it's too late for them. >> the true toll of coronavirus may not be seen in medical statistics because they don't exist in yemen. but in those lines of newly dug graves littering the landscape, a country already scarred by bombs now trauma advertised by mass burials. >> and, guys, it is so important while we worry about the effect
of coronavirus in our own countries that we also look out and see what is happening overseas. the world health organization describing coronavirus as increasingly a disease of the poor and if that is the case, then yemen is a poster child for that, guys. >> nbc's kier simmons, thank you so much for that report. and still ahead, the president claims the crisis is being handled as coronavirus infections are as high as they have ever been. the latest developments for you. plus the democratic leadser of the senate, chuck schumer of new york joins us. "morning joe" is coming right back. joe" is coming right back some companies still have hr stuck between employees and their data. entering data. changing data. more and more sensitive, personal data.
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>> what we've seen in the last couple of days is a spike in cases well beyond the worst spikes that we have seen. that is not good news. we have to get that under control or we risk an even greater outbreak in the united states. when you look at the facts that we never got things down to baseline where so many countries in europe and the uk and other countries did, they closed down to the tune of about 97% lockdown. in the united states, even in
the most strict lockdown, only about 50% of the country locked down. that allowed the perpetuation of the outbreak that we never did get under very good control. >> you've been losing this battle recently, haven't you? >> admittedly, yes, we have. we cannot give up because it appears that we're losing the battle. we have to continue to try to educate people, but not in a way where you look down on them, but to try to get them to understand the importance of evidence. >> and the crisis is being handled. you know, if you look, we were talking this morning, something to think about. china was way early. and they're getting under control just now. and europe was way early and they're getting under control. we followed them with this terrible china virus. and we are, likewise, getting
under control. some areas that were very hard hit are now doing very well. some were doing very well and we thought they may be gone and there was a flare up and we're putting out the fires. but other places were long before us and they're now -- it's a life. it has a life. and we're putting out that life because that's a bad life that we're talking about. >> dr. fauci, losing the battle versus president trump. the crisis is being handled. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, july 3rd. >> you know, he actually went back to talking about us doing very well. and that the crisis is handled. again, it's consistent with everything that he said in january when he said it's one person coming in from china. soon it will be down to zero. then into february, 15 people going to go down to zero. we've done a very good job at this. in march, he talked about how it was going to go away magically.
in april. it will go away magically and that we were doing very well with it. he kept talking about what a great job he's doing. here, mika, we're going to get to the news, another record setting day, the type of record we don't want to set. deaths over 130,000 americans are dead now. a lot of senior citizens are dead now because donald trump said that it was going to go away magically, not to worry about it. and it's not just dr. fauci. i understand there's some really stupid people out there on capitol hill. some really dumb people that attacked dr. fauci, really stupid people who actually have the coronavirus and go to gyms and hang out with other senators and then actually have the audacity to attack dr. fauci. tell us something good. give us some good news. is that what you want to hear? do you want to be lied to? if you have cancer, do you want
the doctor to pat you on your back and go, hey, have a great fourth of july weekend. have a great summer. my god, don't even come back for two years when the doctor finds out -- is that what you want? is that what america wants in a president to tell you that this is going to magically go away when the fact is we're still in the first wave? that's what dr. fauci said. ends up you look at the numbers, saw tim carney put some numbers together, yes, we are still in the first wave. and we're setting records every day for the number of infections that we're having. doctors fear that death rates are going to go up following all of these large infections and dr. fauci, again, is doing what he's been doing from the beginning. he's been telling you the truth. and you haven't wanted to hear it. so you put up these stupid, stupid conspiracy theories on facebook. where you say he and a cabal of
george soros types are making this up to make millions of dollars. and you fool people in my family and they're calling and going, is this really a conspiracy theory? is this really just something so fauci can make money? friends, people who actually voted for me, they believe the lies. they believe the stupidity. they believe the conspiracy theories. when guess what dr. fauci has been doing from the very beginning? it's very simple. and i know if you voted for donald trump and you still support donald trump, it is actually a character trait that you don't see very often from your hero, from your idol. it's a character trait that you have grown unaccustom to seeing from public figures. but what anthony fauci is doing is simply telling you the truth
and he's been telling you the truth from the very beginning. you didn't believe him when it was in new york city. you thought this was a conspiracy theory. you thought this was neil armstrong walking on the moon in a burbank-like movie studio. he, he really wasn't on the moon, was he? it was just a sound stage in burbank. that's what you thought when it was in new york city. well, now, from the end of the world to your town is elton john saying in captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboys. suddenly texas is now telling people they have to wear masks. oh, is that really a threat to your individual freedoms, to make sure you don't die? to make sure your children don't die? is that how you define freedom? to make sure your neighbors don't die?
to make sure, people, that you go to first baptist church with don't die? that is your definition of freedom? what a per verse way to look. understand this. it's not too late for you. i am a baptist. thank god jesus believes in grace because i am a sinner saved by grace. i believe in death bed conversions. i was glad to hear that john wayne on his death bed converted to catholicism. i said praise the lord. because jesus says he'll take death bed conversions. he'll take the person that comes out in the field at the very end and starts working in the field and pay them as much as the person who has been working in the field all day.
so, please, as marjorie plays "just as i am i "in the background, please make your conversion. not to science. i'm not asking you to embrace science over jesus. i'm just saying, just talk to your doctor, okay? this is basic medicine. this is doc hollywood stuff. this is not hard. okay? just basic medicine. dr. fauci is telling you the truth. why? because there's no great conspiracy theory. he just wants you to live. he just wants your child to be able to go back to school and do it safely. he just wants you to be able to go back to the restaurant that you love with your family after going to sunday school and church. and have a good time with your family. he wants to make sure you don't
lose your job or the small business that you're running, it doesn't get destroyed. this is all basic, simple stuff. and i understand there's been a guy in the white house that's been trying to convince you otherwise that this is a culture war. this is no more of a culture war than cancer is a culture war. this is no more a culture war than heart disease is a culture war. this is basic science. this is basic medicine. follow the doctor's advice. and let's all live to tell about this, okay? >> let's back that up with the news. the u.s. recorded its highest number of new cases in a single day for the third day in a row yesterday. with more than 56,000 cases. florida, georgia, and south carolina all broke their state's individual records for the most cases in a single day. texas, california, and alabama
all recorded their second highest number of new cases. florida has now passed the 10,000 mark. as "the washington post" notes, it's the 25th consecutive day that florida has set a record high in its seven-day rolling average as texas scrambles to get its coronavirus surge under control. governor greg abbott issued an executive order requiring people, as joe mentioned, to wear face coverings. masks in public. the move marks a major reversal for abbott who, in april, blocked local officials from penalizing people who don't wear masks. the order, which takes effect today at noon, requires anyone over the age of 10 to wear face coverings inside businesses and other buildings or spaces open to the public. it also requires masks outside in public spaces when it's not feasible to stay six feet apart from others.
some exceptions include when people are eating, drinking, exercising, voting or worshipping. late last night, the president tweeted, quote, there is a rise in coronavirus cases because of testing is so massive and so good. >> that's a lie. >> far bigger and better than any other country. >> that's a lie. >> this is great news. >> that's a lie. >> but even better news is that death and the death rate is down. >> doctors are saying let's see what happens because there's, of course, a 14-day lapse. sometimes a 21-day lapse. so let's hope the death rate stays down, but we don't know that with all these new infections. >> also, younger people get better easier and faster. on capitol hill yesterday, brett favare told lawmakers there. >> there is no question the more
testing you get, the more you will uncover, but we believe this is a real increase in cases because the percent positivities are going up. so this is real increases in cases. >> and we'll talk more about testing straight ahead when the senate's top democrat, minority leader chuck schumer, joins the conversation. er chuck schumer, nversation you can't predict the future. but a resilient business can be ready for it. a digital foundation from vmware helps you redefine what's possible... now. from the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours... to the university moving hundreds of apps quickly to the cloud... or the city government going digital to keep critical services running. you are creating the future-- on the fly. and we are helping you do it. vmware. realize what's possible. to bit never bothered me.dust? until i found out what it actually was. dust mite droppings? ewww. dead skin cells? gross! so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy duty dusters.
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i think what dr. fachy said is if things don't take these things seriously that the numbers could continue to spike. >> they're spiking right now. again, what i would say is the numbers are up. we're obviously watching this very carefully. we think there is the right balance and we're working with the states on the health issues and the economic issues. we'll go to the next question. yes? >> mr. secretary, there is a record number of new infections every day. does the white house regret encouraging states to open as quickly as it did? and do you think some of that has back fired? >> no, absolutely not.
i think we've had a very careful plan, again, working with the states. this is primarily the states' responsibility, but working with the states -- >> or it could be your responsibility, but i guess it's not. treasury secretary steve mnuchin with that exchange with reporters yesterday. joining us now, chuck schumer of new york. a lot to get to with you, senator. thank you for being on. >> happy july 3rd and july 4th. >> heappy july 4th to you, yes. is this coronavirus situation under control as the president and some of his staff members seem to believe? >> not even chose. and for steve mnuchin to say people take this seriously, the number one person who hasn't taken this seriously is president trump, his boss. he said it will go away in a few days. he said don't worry about it. and throughout, as early as march 6th, i asked him to invoke
the defense production act for testing. we are so short of tests, we've just reported that in arizona, which is one of the epicenters, there are huge lines for test. there is no national supply chain working. mnuchin says it's up to the states. no. when it comes to testing and having enough tests, no, it's a federal responsibility. in the covid 35 bill, we put in more money, more authority for whatever reason. and i saw some of your short earlier, mika. it's be fundamentaleling. the president refuses to use it. he's in his own ego activityical world. but amazingly enough, there are no people around him to say you're messing up the country and you're even messing up your political future with doing this. he's -- i have never seen such incompetence, such focus on
self, 134 danger to a country caused by presidential indecision, egotism and just lying because he doesn't want to face the truth. we've never seen anything like it. a leading epidemiologist told us if either bush or obama had been president, if we had some degree of confidence in the white house, the number of deaths and the number of cases would be much lower when it started and much, much lower now. ask yourself this question. why is europe and asian countries doing so much better than us? it's not that there's a mystery here. it's that they have some leadership. they had leadership on testing. they had leadership on social distancing. they had leadership on contact tracing. and there's none of that here. none of that. it's appalling. and i think for the first time, mika, the american people are catching on that not only is this president sort of an infantile narcissist, but he's
incompetent and it hurts everybody, his incompetence. >> mike barnacle for the next question. mike. senator, the united states senate is out and won't be back until july 20th as i understand it. extended unemployment benefits for those benefits that are about to run out, rent forbearance, that's all on the table. what is the plan to help american families? >> mitch mcconnell and the republican senators are so afraid of donald trump that even though there's a crisis, mitch mcconnell said thor day, let's assess the situation. assess the situation? the worst health crisis we've had since the 20s, the worst economic crisis we've had since the depression and they're busy twiddling their thumbs assessing the situation.
as you said, there are cliffs coming. people who lost their jobs through no faults of their own will have no money. starting now, july 1st, many state and local governments don't have to money to -- they can't print money like the federal government. they have the balance their budgets. they don't have the money and hundreds of thousands, millions, probably, of state and local workers, the kinds of people who pick up the garbage and protect us and keep us safe are all going to be out of work because the states don't have enough money. so there are all these cliffs and mcconnell says he's assessing the situation. my prediction is they will be forced to come to the table. why? because there is a crisis. there is a letter from what they call the big seven, the national governors, the national state
legislators, all the local governments. republican and democrat, probably as many republicans on that letter as democrats telling their senators we have to act now. so the pressure on the republican senators is mounting. they're afraid to buck donald trump who has shown no leadership. and mcconnell is just doing what trump wants. so we're waiting until the end. they're going to be forced to do something. we democrats are not going to settle for tiny little measures, just do a little of this, a little of that. we are going to do what we did in the blast two covid bills, the heros act, the house passed should be our model. we're going to hold out for that. and woe'll win. we won in the last two cases and i think we'll win this time, too. >> senator, i know you were in the classified gang of eight briefing on russia paying the taliban to kill u.s. troops. i'm wondering if you can comment on the divorce asty of the reporting and the intelligent on
this story, on these reports, and are republicans quietly shocked and horrified? i can't think of something worse to come to pass at this point in terms of our troops being put in danger and no reaction from the president and top republicans. is there any basis that these reports are weak in their intelligence? >> well, i can't comment on the gang of eight. as you know, it's classified. i can tell you this. president trump from day one has shown such weakness to vladimir putin that an autocratic power grabbing man like him will capital constantly take advantage. and he has been doing that through the years. right now, with russia being one of the biggest foes that we
have, trump calls themmer for making the g7 a g8 and adding them in. when everyone else in the says no way. and it's just amazing. his weakness to dictators. he was played like a fool by kim jong-un. he was played like a fool by putin. he's being played like a fool with china right now. and this is the -- this president is the weakest president. he's the weakest president we have ever had in the history of the united states on foreign policy. he caved to xi, caved to every dictator. who are his buddy sneps people like erdogan. and on the domestic side where he was capable of dealing with the most significant health and economic crisis we have had. and you know they find these
things 37 yesterday the unemployment numbers went down, but the two most important numbers yesterday, mika, were 54,000, the number of new cases, and 1.4 million, the number of people who amies for unemployment insurance. permanent unemployment is going up. probably temporary unemployment is going up. things are going to get worse, even worse because of this weakness. on domestic and foreign policy we have never had a president so over his head and so in his own little world where all he's looking at is what he thinks affects him. >> susan del percio. >> it's beyond words. i'm sorry to go on like this. i'm sorry, but it's not just political, it's appalling.
my dad was a small businessman. i know how they struggle and labor for deck alds to build a business. and much of it didn't have to happen. it happened because of his incompetence. >> senator, i happen to agree that money to state and local governments probably won't see the light until republicans start feeling the pain in their states like arizona, texas and florida. and unemployment, the thing eggs that we're talking about, education, all of these things are very important. but my question to you is one of the things that is coming up in four months and we're celebrating tomorrow is our country's independence and our democratic elections. will there be money there, in that bill, whatever gets passed, to help with mail-in ballots in voting? as we saw in new york, your home state, it was rough going. we won't even be able to open ballots until next week for some of these elections. so what are we doing? and knowing there is such an issue with security to make sure
that our election this year is secure and there's money there for the post office, frankly. >> okay. in the covid 4 bill you, the heros bill, there are two things that answer both your questions. there's $3.6 billion to help make our elections work during these covid times. everyone will get a mail ballot and can send in that mail ballot and the federal government will pay the postage cost and everything else as well as money for the states to do a better job at setting up their election boards and dealing with people because you're going to need workers and you're going to need social distancing of people who want to show up and vote on their own. not everybody wants to vote by mail and we should give them the choice. our republican friends led by mitch mcconnell are opposing this.
no one knows who it affects more, democrats or republicans voting by mail, but their creedo has been to restrict voting. in alabama, listen to this. to send in a mail ballot now, you need a notary to sign your absentee ballot. why do you think that's done? to stop poor people and people of color voting. they're not going to pay for a notary. it's almost like a poll tax. we get rid of these things in our bill, and we hope our republican friends won't oppose it. in addition, we give a grant, i believe it's $40 billion, maybe 20. i'm not sure the exact number it ended up for the post office, not a loan, but a grant, and the postal authorities tell us that will be enough to keep them going and let them deliver the ballots that will be mailed. we make sure they're postmarked so you see everybody who is postmarked before election day gets counted.
and we democrats are dealing with both the issues we talked about. we're being opposed. a lot of republicans, including trump, want to see the end to the post office. they don't have a plan to replace it and certainly it will mess up our elections to a fair thee well if the post office is hobbling along when we get to september, october, early november. so i think when we've had these previous covid negotiations, republicans started with a small, stingy and limited package. we democrats in the senate on covid 2, 3 and 3-5 held out and said no, we're not doing that. they eventually succumbed to us for thee reasons. number one, because we're the stronger playing field. in other words, the republican manager let the private sector do it just doesn't work when you have a huge economic health crisis. number two, because ma mutualin
saying mr. president, if we don't have this, the economy will she in the great depression in november and you can kiss your re-election good-bye. and third, they so embraced trump and they're afraid to leave him even though they need voters in the middle will go and whisper to mcconnell, please, do this, please, do this. so i think if we hang together as a party and force the republicans to do the things post office and other things that are so needed. >> senator chuck schumer, thank you very much for being on the show this morning and happy fourth. enjoy the weekend. still ahead, as some airlines face criticism for starting to fill middle seats again, one pushes back saying, blocking middle seats is a pr move, not a safety strategy.
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free face masks if they choose to wear one. we won't be social distancing. we're asking them to come, be ready the celebrate, to enjoy the freedoms and the liberties we have in this country and to talk about our history and what it brought us today with an opportunity to raise our kids in the greatest country in the world. >> the south dakota governor earlier this week proudly declaring there will not be social distancing at the ceremony that the president will be attending tonight at mt. rushmore. joining us now from george washington university, dr. leena wynne who has dos and don'ts for the july 4th weekend. they're really good. she does this for know your value every week, five tips on getting through the pandemic. but first, i will say it so you don't have to. i cannot believe how moronic that statement was to proudly declare that you will not be
social distancing at an event. can you describe to us the dangers of going to a public event where there will be lots of people who want to see the president of the united states and not social distancing, not wearing masks. >> well, mika, we're in the middle of a pandemic that is claim ago record number of hives. we have to think about where we were and where we are even at our plateau, even after people gave up so much and made so many sacrifices. we were still at 17,000 infections a day and hundreds of people dieing every day. we are at a much worse place now and the last thing we should be doing is having people do the things that all public health experts say are the most dangerous when it comes to virus transmission. that's gathering in crowds, that's not wearing masks. that's standing shoulder to shoulder with no social distancing. these are the last things that we should be doing in the middle of a crisis like this where there is escalating spread and, frankly, we're in a situation of
a four alarm fire throughout the country. and we would expect for the president of the united states and all of our elected officials to be modeling good public health behavior rather than setting up situations that actually could be public health catastrophes. >> well, and there in the world would make wearing masks a wedge issue? it continues. i mean, wearing masks for some reason on the right, right wing, not conservatives, but on the right is seen as a wedge issue? donald trump continues to push that. while a lot of really responsible leaders in the country party are no longer following the president on that front. but we've learned a lot about this. like, for instance, when people stau start talking about closing down parks and beaches, mika and i are like, what are you --
that's outside. you can socially distance. we've been to beaches just walking and looking around. everybody that we've seen are socially distancing and being responsible. to us at least, that's far different than jamming everybody together at an event to see the president of the united states and then bragging about not socially distancing. it's just like the mars. the mars, there were real concerns about the marches, too. at least most of the pictures i saw of people in marches, at least they were wearing masks. i don't think that was safe healthwise, but at least they were wearing masks. >> that th's right. by now, we know what it takes to reduce the rate of transmission. again, anytime people are in close proximity of one another, you are going to have a risk. wearing a mask further reduces
the risk by about five fold. so those are all simple steps that we could be taking. but you make a really good point about what are the relatively safer things that we can still do and enjoy our lives? because quarantine fatigue is real. if it's going to take us many months to get a vaccine, we can't expect people to lockdown and do nothing. i think it's a good thing for beaches and parks to be open, but we can set rules. for example, encouraging people to use beaches and parks for exercise, to not linger there. if it looks like it's too crowded, to come back another time. don't get together with large groups of people who are outside of your family. i actually think if we close down these public spaces, people might end up congregating in their own homes with strangers, or not stranger, but people who they don't live with and that could be a lot more dangerous than if we just said the common sense rules for these shared public spaces. >> completely agree. and, again, every time we've seen people on beaches or in
parks, they're always socially distanced. i know that people love to take those telephoto shots that make everybody look jammed together, but at least in our personal experiences, in an area that voted for donald trump, they're still -- they're social distancing and responsibility. mika, i want to talk about something that you and i have talked about quite a bit. that is what the major airlines are doing right now. and i think it is insanity that some of these major airlines are not keeping the center seats open. it's as if they don't want -- you know, i want the airlines to thrive. i want people to feel comfortable and safe going back on the airlines. i want people to be able to move around the country, get back to work. but we need some help from the major airlines. and when you don't keep that center seat open, at least until this passes, you're cutting off 70% of your customers, 80% of
your customers that aren't -- in fact, i actually asked a guy if he wanted some more. he said -- yesterday, he said i'd love to help out, but i can't do it because i'm not getting on a jam packed plane. and he said i've seen the pictures. >> there's a different point of view on this coming up. but first, oregon senator jeff merkley called out another airline yesterday for increasing the number of passengers it will allow on a flight. he tweeted out this photo and said american airlines, how many americans will die because you fill middle seats with your customers shoulder to shoulder a hour after hour? this is incredibly irresponsible. people eat and drink on planes and must take off masks. no way you are not if a till tating the spread of covid infections. american airlines announced last week they would resume selling all available seats as of july 1st. the airline said it would allow passengers with no charge to take a less crowded flight
instead. the airline told "the washington post" that it was unwavering to the well being of our customers and team members. american joins united airlines which told abc news it has never limited capacity, contrary to most airline policies during the pandemic. united's chief communications officers told reporters, when it comes to blocking middle streets, that's a pr strategy. that's not a safety strategy. when you're on board the aircraft, if you're sitting in the aisle and the middle seat is empty, the person across the aisle is within six feet of you. the person he at the window is within six feet of you. the people in the row in front of you are within six feet of you and the people behind you are within six feet of you. dr. leena wynn, i'll start with you. is there any way to fly safely? i would think they would need to skip rows, too.
>> yeah. i mean, i do think it's true that when you're in an -- when you're in an airplane, it's hard to keep that social distance of six foot. but the fewer people there are on the plane, the safer it's going to be. and not having the middle seat, i think it's common sense that that is one fewer person. you are literally shoulder to shoulder with that person if you're sitting next to them. so i do think that there are things you can do to make your flight safer, but we need airlines to do their part. for example, airlines have to do a lot more when it comes to helping with contact tracing. you would hope they would say the outbreak or infection was with somebody seated in row seven and we now need to contact all those who were sitting near them. but even that has been hard to come by with the airline
industry. >> dr. leena wynn, thank you so much. we appreciated, mika, those statements about the airlines, absolutely absolutely asinine. what we have found is he larger concentration of infection, the more likely it is you're in the only going to contract the disease, but you're going to have a serious, more of a serious event because of it. >> yeah. >> so the more people you pack on to a plane, and i know they're doing it just for the bottom line, i know they're doing it just to make money, i know american and united are doing it because they don't give a -- about the safety of the people who not only work for the them, but the people who fly on their airlines. i want that and you know that. this is not just saying united, i don't think who you think
you're fooling, but it's all about money, it's all about the bottom line. and it's short sided. it's short sided, but if that is how you want to run your business, that's fine. you'll pay for it in the end. >> i would feel much more comfortable wearing a mask with the middle seat empty. at least half a chance at having a little space around me and protect my face and my drop lets from someone else. it's ludicrous, the statement from united. absolutely ludicrous. they probably should spread out seats more, but their choice, their business. by the way, dr. leena wynn has at knowyourvalue.com five actions to avoid july 4th weekend amid the coronavirus pandemic. she's been spot on saying this is not a snow day to now dealing with this in the middle of the summer and she's been doing five tips every week. this is about july 4th. check it out at knowyourvalue.com. up next, cornel west and eddie glaude jr. on the
princeton university. it is so good to have both of you here. to kick things off today, i want to read a passage from eddie's book about his visit to james baldwin's grave. quote, i didn't say much of the grave site. i kneeled down and quietly said thank you as i touched his grave. i stood up and i thought to myself, i've been reading jimmy for 30 xwreers. he has been waiting for us, waiting to see what this history of ours, once we pass through it, has made us all. he still waits, but eddie, i look at the news over the past month and i look at numbers. gallop. and it's not just about black americans. gallop poll is reporting the highest number of americans ever supporting immigration. ever. the highest number of americans, the overwhelming majority of
americans supporting black lives matter, even white americans. i'm wondering if what has happened over the past month -- and what's happened over the past 3 1/2 years is not a fever that has somehow begun to get at the infection that has been plaguing this country for 400 years. >> you know, joe, i think we're on the precipice of fundamental change. look, after the context of the civil rights movement in the mid 20th century, we saw racist believes decline, people's positions with regard to interracial marriage been people's positions with regard to segregated schools shifted. but there's always been a para docks. as racist opinions have declined, those opinions haven't been in alignment with policies to address fundamental injustices and inequality. so i think you're right that we might be seeing a shift in
public opinion, but we need to see that shift transhate in the very ways in which we live together. and that's what we're talking about when we talk about a new america, a third american founding, where we can respond to this crisis, joe,joe, withoue undertow of the value gap that white people matter more than others. we can respond to the question of equality without a belief that it's a gift white america gives to others. we need to tell a fuller story about the beloved community dr. king imagined and the community we want to bring into existence today. >> cornell west, i want you to talk about two things. first of all, where we are as a nation, as a people and just how great our friend eddie glaude jr. is and how important his book is right now. >> well, this is a masterpiece. it's a masterpiece on the most
masterful writer of the 20th century. the son of harlem, that genius, james baldwin. eddie and i, we come from a tradition of a people who have been hated for 400 years and keep dishing out -- today is my mother's birthday. 88 years young. love warrior. my father, a love warrior. eddie and i come out of this tradition that's fundamentally committed to black freedom and deep democracy. the black freedom movement has always been the levavening in te american loaf. what brother eddie has done in such a powerful way, such a subtle and heartfelt way is to say, let us keep this tradition alive in this moment of overwhelming despair and disappointment. we'll never allow those two to have the last word.
this is the hope, but the hope is a verb. you have to stay in motion. keep on pushing. that's what you are getting my dear brother eddie glaude. he's my brother from another mother. >> first of all, let's say happy birthday, first things first, to your mother. she obviously did a great job. do you -- cornell, you've seen so much. you've had reasons to see glimmers of hope over the past 30, 40, 50 years. you've had reasons to have your heart broken. i'm wondering what this last month has done in shaping your attitude as we move forward together as a country. how are you feeling this morning? are we on the precipice of change? >> you never know. history is unpredictable. brother eddie and i, we're blues men. we wake up every morning to the
heartache that billie holliday sung about. i've got pure joy today. any time i'm in dialogue with eddie glaude, i'm ready to fight and go down swinging. >> fantastic. and eddie's book timed perfectly with so much but also with something that happened in his home state and a state that i grew up in when i was younger where they voted to get rid of the flag, which was the last one in the u.s. that featured the confederate emblem. let's bring in anjanou ellis, an emmy nominated actress and an activist who lives in mississippi and who took up the cause to get mississippi to change its flag. very big week for you and the people of mississippi. how did it happen?
>> well, first of all, i just want to say thank you for having me this morning. thank you for letting a mississippian speak about mississippi. i can't believe i'm in the presence of all these mississippians this morning. i'm very excited about that. it is a victory. it is a bittersweet victory. a victory occasion by the murder and torture of george floyd. i think it is important in this conversation about what happens now is that we acknowledge that the reason why it happened was not this conscientious response by the state of mississippi to the murder and torture of george floyd. it was because of kylin hill, a mississippi state running back who said he would not play for mississippi state as long as that flag flew. and kylin hill recognized his power in industry that would not exist without him. the ncaa, the s.e.c., the conference usa recognized what would be a domino effect.
they threatened to take football championships away from mississippi. the governor knew their fragile economy could not afford that. and so they responded in kind. and i think that's important to know in this conversation about what comes next is that the flag was removed but the governor reaves was celebrating weeks ago. confederate culture is still in place and that's something we still have to dismantle. >> eddie glaude, mike barnicle is with us and has a question for you. mike? >> edie, first of all, i always find it actually thrilling to listen to cornell west. and so i'm thrilled today to be here with cornell and with you. and let me ask you, for 400 years, america has been semi paralyzed by the one crucial element we have never been able to deal with, race, in
this country. this weekend, i think tonight, the president of the united states will go to mt. rushmore in south dakota with washington, lincoln, jefferson, theodore roosevelt set in stone behind him, and he will inevitably and heritage. in other words, he will talk about he is the protector of white america. i know that doesn't surprise you, but talk if you could, about the ramifications of a president of the united states who is basically a race baiter. >> well, he stands in the way of substantive change. he's not unique. donald trump is not an exception. and in the book, i say that it's dangerous to make him an exception, mike, because we displace all of our sins onto him. in some ways, donald trump is a reflection of the rock that has
been at the heart of our -- this fragile experiment since its beginning. and part of what we have to do in this moment, i honestly believe this in my heart, we have to engage in a fundamental rejection of the security and safety that donald trump in his ilk represent. we have to imagine ourselves differently. we have to acknowledge that mt. rushmore is sitting on lakota land. that doesn't mean we can rectify what happened, but we have to understand the bitterness at the bottom of the cup as william james said. part of what it means to be from mississippi as ms. ellis knows and joe knows and cornell knows, is we understand the deep contradictions at the heart of the country and we have to confront those. not deny them. not erase them, but understand they're constituent of who we are. donald trump wants us to remain in kind of fairytale land. we need to embrace the reality of who we are so we can imagine
ourselves otherwise. that's what we mean by begin again. >> william faulkner talked about loving the south and hating the south at the same time. and the contradictions even in his feelings about the south. cornell, it's shocking. i've got to say it is shocking to me. i'm sure it's not to you that in 2020, we have an elected president who over the last week has tweeted a white power video, has threatened to veto funding of our military if confederate generals' names are taken off of military bases, and is talking about getting rid of the guarantee of desegregated housing which, of course, takes us back about 50, 60, 70 years. what is at stake this fall? >> what's at stake is for us not to be in shock so that we become paralyzed. white supremacy is as american as cherry pie, just like martin
luther king jr. or eddie glaude. but never forget when you're talking about mississippi, you're talking about the state that produced greater artists than any other state in the united states. ch wrights and the tennessee williams when it comes to the stage. you've got the blues. then you've got reverend c.l. franklin, where aretha franklin comes from. when you look at that quality. new york, california, florida, don't come close to mississippi which means what? they are the examples against the worst of the country. and that is a source of hope. if you get that kind of genius coming out of mississippi, then you can imagine where we could go if we're courageous enough to heed the call. >> and all the people said, amen. anjenou, what's next? you talk about a confederate
culture still in mississippi. what's next? >> well, as malcolm x so brilliantly said when hamer came to harlem in 1964, he said that there is no south. there is no mason-dixon line. there is only america. and so if this flag is coming down in mississippi, the flag needs to come down all over this country. i see that flag when i'm driving through pennsylvania and when i'm driving through virginia on my road trips. and what we are behind, we are morally behind nascar and the united states marine corps. the united states needs to have the same response it had after world war ii when they combined with the allied forces and banned the swastika in germany. the country should follow its own leadership and ban the confederate flag for the same reasons here in