tv The Ed Show MSNBC January 4, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am EST
>> the obamas might be perfect. msnbc contributor, meghan mccain, thank you very much. follow my tweets at good evenings americans. welcome to "the ed show" tonight from new york. mitt romney edged out rick santorum. darn it, i missed it by a few votes. i picked santorum, didn't i? liberals, why are you chewing me out when it comes to stumping for santorum? you know who the big winner was last night? president obama. today he was in ohio making moves that congressional republicans have been blocking for months. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> you think we can get more than an eight-vote margin here in new hampshire, i'm going to try. >> romney squeaked by santorum. the big winner in iowa last night was the president.
today the president is kicking off his campaign with a big speech and some bold moves. >> today i'm appointing richard as america's consumer watchdog. >> msnbc's richard wolffe and katrina vanden heuvel of "the nation" magazine on the fallout from iowa and how it helps the president. if you take, you know, santorum and perry and bachmann and gingrich, you get some sense of what a small minority romney really represents. >> the republican plan to stop mitt romney is beginning to unfold. and it's gaining momentum. bill burton of priorities usa is here with the latest. i have decided to stand aside. >> michele bachmann is calling it quits, so tonight we're taking a look back at some of her greatest hits. >> oh, my, goodness. yes. and last night, rick santorum made it clear, he's in it to win it. >> game on.
>> ezra klein of the "washington post" is here to let us in on how slick rick really is. good to have you with us tonight, folks. i want to start this program with a single number. consume it. it's an easy one. six. six, six. that's it. everybody's talking about eight. the number eight today. that's the number of votes that mitt romney beat rick santorum by in iowa. but i want to talk about six. because six is the number of votes that mitt romney lost in iowa compared to his total in 2008. after four years of nonstop campaigning, this is what he does? romney couldn't pick up a single vote in iowa? the fact is is that he lost six. it wasn't cheap, either. i mean, he was spending all kinds of money. he spent $49 per vote.
rick santorum, ah, he's the cheap candidate. 73 cents, mr. efficient with his money, right? retail politics works again. iowa, i think, is just a reminder that, you know, mitt romney, he just can't fire anybody up. doesn't matter how long they look at him, doesn't matter how much they know about him or how much he's been around. he's even worse off in iowa. now, he was in new hampshire today getting an endorsement from mr. excitement, john mccain. but other candidates like jon huntsman, they want to capitalize on this enthusiasm gap that's out there surrounding romney. >> i was struck by the fact that 75% of those who voted basically rejected the establishment's favorite, mitt romney. which suggests to me that there's a lot of open space in this election. >> something about huntsman, every time i see that guy, i think he's trying to sell me a vacuum cleaner. but anyway. huntsman wants moderate voters to see him as the alternative to mitt romney. good luck. he's not polling very well. romney is also taking a real beating from conservatives who see romney as really weak after
iowa. influential conservative richard viguerie, he wrote, "no matter how romney's establishment alleys try to spin it, tonight's results show conservatives have strengthened their opposition to mitt romney's candidacy. game on." wouldn't you say? viguerie told me today on the radio he's going to be a part of a meeting of a group of conservatives coming up within the next week that are going to get together to find a consensus republican candidate. they're going to have a little powwow down there in texas. i have my doubts if they're going it be very favorable to mitt romney. they simply are not. undecided voters are not picking romney in great numbers either. here it is from last night. only 22% of iowa voters who made up their minds yesterday picked mitt romney. 35%, the late comers, they went to santorum. now, if mitt romney is the eventual republican nominee, i think you can say the democrats are starting to feel pretty good about their chances in 2012. now, according to a state party, 25,000 people, 25,000 people, showed up at and attended
democratic caucuses in iowa last night. for what? for president obama? he delivered a live video address. that was it? that's enthusiasm. there was nothing at stake in these caucuses, but 25,000 people show up anyway just to hang out with the boss? obama's political organization is picking up right where it left off in 2008. he's not getting much attention for it. the ground game is getting, you know, to work, i guess you could say, and president obama is really spending his time leading the american people. that's what he was doing today. in ohio. he was with former state attorney general richard cordray. >> i'm appointing richard as america's consumer watchdog. and that means he is going to be in charge of one thing. looking out for the best interests of american consumers. looking out for you. his job will be to protect
families like yours from the abuses of the financial industry. >> appointing richard cordray as the director of the consumer financial protection bureau, well, that gives dodd/frank financial reform bill some teeth, i guess. of course, republicans hate that, too. the dodd/frank bill. president obama said he was not going to let them hold up the process this time. >> for almost half a year, republicans in the senate have blocked richard's confirmation. the only reason republicans in the senate have blocked richard is because they don't agree with the law that set up a consumer watchdog in the first place. they want to weaken the law. they want to water it down. and by the way, a lot of folks in the financial industry have poured millions of dollars to try to water it down. when congress refuses to act,
and as a result hurts our economy and puts our people at risk, then i have an obligation as president to do what i can without them. >> i've got an obligation to act on behalf of the american people. and i'm not going to stand by while a minority in the senate puts party ideology ahead of the people that we were elected to serve. not with with so much at stake. not at this make-or-break moment for middle class americans. we're not going to let that happen. >> yowza. where's that guy been? i'm all for it. republicans, of course, are outraged president obama appointed cordray as a recess appointment. there were even more hysterical later in the day when obama made three recess appointments to the national labor relations board. i really like this. obama said this action represents -- mitt romney said
"this action represents chicago-style politics at its worst." i want mitt romney to take a look at this chart. president obama has made fewer recess appointments than any recent president. listen, mitt. your buddy, ronald reagan, averaged more than 30 per year. these appointments by president obama are nothing out of the norm. reagan did it. bush 41, bush 43, they did it. they made recess appointments all the time. the obstructionists have forced president obama to do this. and they still say it's a heavy hand despite those past numbers. here's a message for the republicans. president obama is working on behalf of the american people. if the president continues to fight for the middle class and do what the country wants him to do, the democrats aren't going to have to worry about any enthusiasm gap coming up. not to be critical, but it's a little late. but it's damn good. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question.
who was the real winner in iowa? text "a" for mitt romney, text "b" for rick santorum or text "c" for president obama because he's really got the message now. the number 622639. go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me now, katrina vanden heuvel, editor, part owner, publisher of "the nation" magazine and also msnbc political analyst richard wolffe. katrina, why are these recess appointments so important to the president? you heard me question the timing of it, but it did happen. okay? >> no, it's -- it's sweet. he -- it's important, look, he's in shaker heights, ohio, standing with the middle class, with a consumer watchdog who's going to work on behalf of veterans, seniors, students. those who have been shafted by the scams, schemes and swindles of wall street. and it shows where he's coming from. meanwhile, you have romney talking about how this is chicago-style politics at its worst.
he's standing with the predatory lenders and wall street. which side are you on? i think it also yolks romney to an obstructionist gop congress which is just sinking in the opinion polls. >> the president really had no choice, did he? >> you know, i will admit, it's been late coming, ed, and when i saw today that the fight was on, we've been following cordray. so critical for workers rights to rebuild a strong middle class in this country. didn't know in my gut, but boy, it's coming out of the kansas speech at the end of last year. elections matter. i think they're already looking to campaign at romney. consummate wall streeter, who has real problems not only with the latinos and seniors in this country, but with working, middle, low income people. i think they're looking ahead. >> richard wolffe, how organized is president obama's ground game compared to the republican candidates' right now. >> well, you just cannot compare it. i've seen the reports today that said santorum succeeded because he played a grand game. he didn't play a grand game. he traveled to 99 counties in
iowa. that's one kind of ground game, but the real ground game is organizing people to show up to vote. you know, if democrats and republicans have forgotten what that looks like, they should just think back to 2004. republicans like to say that all of that anti-obama spirit is enough of a ground game in and of itself. it will get republicans to the polls, but, you know, there was a lot of anti-bush feeling in 2004, and john kerry was not carried over the finish line by that, alone. in fact, the superior ground game the bush folks had really made all the difference. in a close race where you can add two or three points by having super organization, lots of volunteers. just what they showed in iowa in that dry run. that can make all the difference in a very close election. i think that's what we're facing this year. >> i think it's going if be romney. he's the vehicle, the vessel for the corporate establishment in this country. you had the chamber of commerce, right, essentially a third party
in the country with the money it throws around, already saying it's going to sue to halt cordray's appointment to head the consumer financial protection board. the numbers we need to look at, romney spent $4 million. romney and his super pac spent $4 million in iowa to lose six votes. we're already seeing the republican super pacs outspent candidates 2-1 in iowa and other primary states ahead. i think, you know, we're looking, let many be honest, we're looking at a party that is -- republican party that is now very, very, very conservative or very, very, very conservative. anyone who's going to start doing the game around romney, oh, he's more moderate, can't bring together the social conservatives. the enthusiasm gap was there on the ground last night in iowa. >> yeah. >> i think that hatred of obama is going to pull together the electability numbers for -- >> it is out there. there's no doubt it's out there. when i was in iowa, all of these candidates are just working over president obama big-time on the stump.
that's the one thing they all have in common is that they just go after him big-time. iowa democratic chairwoman sue dvorsky said this during our iowa election coverage about mitt romney. >> he won 17 of 99 counties. i'll tell you this, 13 of them are the top performing democratic counties in the state. >> interesting. >> if mitt romney is, indeed, the inevitable candidate as i actually suspect he might be, for the long haul, when he comes back, truly i feel very good about our general election chances here. >> richard, is romney going to have a more difficult electoral map than other republicans maybe? >> well, let's see how badly he gets beaten up by this primary season coming up. because when you have newt gingrich out there, obviously very steamed, you know, mitt romney has not -- just like rick santorum, he has not had any negative advertising dumped on his head. he's about to experience that. so his numbers with independents have, in national polls, been good. actually he didn't do so well
among independents in iowa as ron paul did. so this race has got a long way to play out. there has been a working theory that he, mitt romney, would challenge president obama with some of these younger voters, with independents. that's not what we saw last night. i doubt that's what we'll see if we go through several months of this protracted and ugly primary. >> i think it's a very disappointing performance by mitt romney after all that investment and so many years and that's all he's got to show for it. katrina vanden heuvel, richard wolffe. thanks for your time this evening. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on twitter @edshow. newt gingrich is going after mitt romney and willing to join forces to take him down. later, i predicted rick santorum would win iowa on monday. well, i was close. he did win the night. just a few votes short. where does santorum go from here? jonathan alter, joy-ann reid and bill burton coming up. stay with us. this is an rc robotic claw.
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coming up, newt gingrich ditches his positive campaign and goes on the attack. can newt's negativity take down mitt romney? john nichols will join me on that. michele bachmann calls it quits after a disappointing finish in iowa. oh, yes, we have the greatest hits from the campaign trail. those moments coming up in "psycho talk." with santorum's popularity on the rise, i'll take a look at where he stands on issues, with ezra klein, when it comes to jobs. share your thoughts on twitter using #edshow. we'll be right back.
welcome back to "the ed show." newt gingrich has finally unleashed his inner attack dog personality, i think you could call it, in the presidential campaign. he is going after mitt romney and it's personal. >> governor romney was first an independent then repudiated reagan/bush. romney raised taxes, created romney care, appointed liberal judges. then ran to the left of teddy kennedy in 1994. this is not a conservative republican. he is not going to win the nomination. then became a moderate to run for governor. i think what's really striking about last night is that three out of four republicans once again repudiated mitt romney. then with romney care, for example, included state-funded abortions. it's pretty clear. he's not truthful about his record in massachusetts and his background. he's not truthful about his pac which has his staff running it. >> i have to ask you, are you calling mitt romney a liar? >> yes. >> you're calling mitt romney a liar?
>> well, you seem shocked by it. yes. i mean, what else can you say? >> most of that was from the past 24 hours. gingrich is just warming up. if he can't get the nomination, he wants to make sure mitt romney, he ain't going to get it either. next weekend a group of conservative power brokers, i really love this story, including james dobson, tony perkins and gary bower are going to have a big shindig down in texas trying to find a consensus candidate, according to politico. in other words, they don't want romney. their objective seems pretty clear to stop the guy from massachusetts. and after last night, rick santorum could be their man. i'm joined tonight by john nichols, washington correspondent of "the nation" magazine. i know you're still doing work in iowa deciphering through all this. i want to focus now, as i said, moving forward, and this attitude that newt gingrich, i mean, he's the new pit bull.
is newt gingrich, is he ready to go after mitt romney point by point? what do you think? >> oh, there's simply no question he's ready to go after him. newt gingrich in addition to buying a full-page ad in the "manchester union leader," the biggest circulation newspaper in new hampshire, detailing his differences with romney, did a round of all the conservative talk radio shows, hannity and others, today, to do exactly what we're talking about here. going out there, reinforcing his attacks, not backing off in any way. and the interesting thing is that he probably said the most important thing last night, that in his concession, he spent a huge portion of that speech talking about what a great guy rick santorum is. >> here's what -- >> he's effectively signaling he's willing to go in after romney on santorum's behalf. >> here's what he said to laura ingraham today on her show. here it is. >> can you see a scenario under which the two of you would align together to try to defeat the establishment candidate, mitt
romney? >> absolutely. of course. if you take santorum and perry and bachmann and gingrich, you get some sense of what a small minority romney really represents. >> the answer was absolutely? i mean, this is a long way from ronald reagan's philosophy, hey, don't take down your partner in the party, you can have gentlemanly like differences. he is clearly ready to join forces to take down romney. i mean, it's personal and it's bitter. what do you make of it? >> well, i think it's bitter but it's also tactical. newt gingrich knows that he has been pretty much ruined by this process as a perspective presidential candidate. unless everybody is taken down. i still think that gingrich entertains a little bit of hope that he might yet have a resurrection here. but the only way that he's got any kind of chance in south carolina or other states is if things get so ugly in new hampshire that mitt romney really is harmed and, perhaps,
rick santorum ultimately is harmed by romney super pac ads. and maybe when everybody looks so awful they might once again look at newt gingrich. >> well, i don't disagree with you, but i think it's kind of a stretch. i think newt gingrich is of the mindset right now -- >> it's a pipe dream. >> yeah. you know, look, i'm in this to just take, you know, mitt out almost at all costs. richard viguerie told me this today about santorum. he said, you know, we just didn't see him. but he could do very well in wisconsin, in michigan, in indiana and ohio, because of the catholic vote. does rick santorum need to be taken seriously at this point? >> well, rick santorum gave by far the best speech of the candidates after iowa last night. it wasn't a speech that appealed to everything that i believe, but it was certainly a very effective outreach speech for
catholic voters, for evangelical voters. and i think also for some folks who might have been in that old reagan democrat camp. santorum's appeal to republicans is going to be that ultimately he is like reagan. he is somebody who can reach across some partisan lines, find the conservatives or the semiconservative folks on the other side. i don't know that that's true. what i do know is he is certainly a far more appealing candidate than mitt romney, and if he can convince conservatives that he's that, yeah. >> to that conservative wing of the party, he's the full package form. that's what they're saying. that's why they're going to meet in texas. they're thinking, how would this guy do if he had the same kind of resources mitt romney has? conservative right in the country doesn't want to settle for a milquetoast conservative but is a values guy and a strict conservative and going to get after it in their way of thinking. the catholic vote here, john,
it's 40% of the vote in the states i talked about. in wisconsin, michigan, ohio and indiana. i mean, so i think liberals have got to take rick santorum very seriously at this point. and, of course, money is going to have everything to do with it. >> yeah. they should take him seriously. they should also take seriously the fact he isn't just talking about abortion and same-sex marriage. >> no, he's not. >> every one of his speeches involves an address that talks about manufacturing. >> yeah, we're going to talk about that. >> bring jobs back to the united states. >> you bet. we're going to touch on that later in the show. john nichols. great to have you with us tonight. in iowa. michele bachmann is out of the race for president. the six months of "psycho talk" leading up to the caucuses really did her in. we'll take a trip down memory lane next. there are two more debates this weekend. i tell you what, they're going
you tell us what you want to pay, and we give you a range of coverages to choose from. who is she? that's flobot. she's this new robot we're trying out, mostly for, like, small stuff. wow! look at her go! she's pretty good. she's pretty good. hey, flobot, great job. oops. [ powers down ] uh-oh, flobot is broken. the "name your price" tool, only from progressive. call or click today. and in "psycho talk" tonight, well, we say good-bye to the presidential candidacy of michele bachmann. darn it. in the last less than five months, i think it was, bachmann went from winning the iowa straw poll to coming in sixth in the iowa caucuses.
but i think i know what happened. >> what i would like to do is have the win-win-win plan. ♪ oh, my, goodness. yes. i haven't had a gaffe. now, with the president, he put us in libya. he is now putting us in africa. because he has a lot of chutzpa. i'm a serious candidate for president of the united states, and my facts are accurate. what i love about new hampshire, you're the state where the shot was heard around the world at lexington and concord. john wayne was from waterloo, iowa? there was a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of the vaccine. the win-win-win plan. the people of iowa spoke with a very clear voice so i have decided to stand aside. >> i think the vaccine comment was the turning point, don't you? iowa was the end of the line for
bachmann's 2012 presidential hopes, but her husband, marcus, would be glad he can stop campaigning and return to other activities. >> he was buying doggy sunglasses for our dog, boomer, while we were out visiting all of the many businesses. >> there you go. of course, michele bachmann is still a member of congress and the leader of the tea party caucus. and she still wants president obama to be a one-term president. so you can bet we haven't heard the end of bachmann in "psycho talk." my prediction about rick santorum got a lot of liberals really worked up. come on, chill out. i go interview a righty and everybody's working me over on twitter and facebook and everything else. what do you think, i'm endorsing this guy? give me a break. i'll explain it all when we come back. and later, i'll show you why santorum's job plan won, actually won iowa voters last night. the "washington post" ezra klein will tell us if his proposal has any substance or if it's just smoke and mirrors. [ woman ] i was ready for my trip. but my smile wasn't.
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i'm actually doing better at this than the nfl playoffs. the nfl playoffs haven't started yet. i saw it coming last week when i was down in iowa. i think rick santorum has lot of qualities and monday night i made this prediction. i think that he has been trending for more than a week and i think he is ahead of his poll numbers. and i think that rick santorum is going to win iowa. if that's an upset, so be it. okay. so i missed a few votes, right? but my conjecture got a lot of liberals kind of wigged out over this. make no mistake. i think rick santorum's positions are radical and i don't agree with them at all. millions of americans feel the same way. but here it is. it's a point that even bill o'reilly brought up to him just moments ago. >> all i'm saying to you is i'm not debating the issue with you. saying if you're right or you're wrong. i'm not doing that tonight. i'm saying this is going to be
put on you that you're an extremist man. out of the mainstream. how are you going to reply to that? >> out of the mainstream? rick santorum essentially tied with mitt romney last night because he's just great at retail politics. i saw this guy in action. he's impressive. he looks people in the eye. he doesn't give them the generic pablum bullet point answer. he gets to specifics. that's what iowa voters were looking for. i don't think he's going to be going away any time soon. he's polling in single digits right now in new hampshire. romney is up there at 43% in most of the polls. this is going to be interesting to see how he closes the gap if he does at all. the best thing that could ever happen to obama campaign in my opinion and the democrats, we got this fight going on in the republican party. a social conservative like rick santorum moves a republican nominee further to the right. and that's not where most americans are. for more on this, let's turn to jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and columnist for "bloomberg."
also, joy-ann reid, msnbc contributor and managing editor of the grio. bill burton with us tonight, former deputy press secretary under president obama. great to have all of you with us. jonathan, where does rick santorum go from here? >> i think he's in very good shape going forward. you know, in presidential politics, money follows momentum. so as long as he can keep things going, he's going to have the resources to be competitive. he's not going to match romney dollar for dollar, but he sure didn't in iowa and he matched him in terms of votes. so if he can beat the expectations gap, spread, in new hampshire, which is not going to be difficult. it doesn't mean winning new hampshire, it means doing better than single digits which is where he is now. and then south carolina will be a good state for him. that is a mormon, unfriendly state. i hate to say it, but that's the facts. >> that is the facts. >> so he'll do well there.
he may even win south carolina. and then he's not a bad candidate going into florida. >> joy-ann, what about the 60% of the registered voters in new hampshire are catholic? i mean, it would seem to me this would be a real good place for rick santorum to carry this momentum. >> i think jonathan is right there will be money, you know, following now and he'll be able to raise money. his campaign infrastructure is nonexistent. we were trying to get a comment from him yesterday on a story we did at the grio. all of his campaign offices have voicemail on. he didn't have enough staff to do that. he really needs to get his act together in terms of a campaign. look, the reality is mitt romney won a bar fight last night, but it's rick santorum getting the free drinks at the bar and newt gingrich is waiting outside with a broken bottle. he's coming after mitt romney. when we get to new hampshire, as long as newt gingrich does the job on mitt that we all anticipate he's going to do, anybody can bounce including santorum. >> well, mr. burton, i said it's going to be saturday night in the alley with this debate coming up here this weekend.
>> broken bottle and all. >> maybe so. where is santorum in this? i mean, could he make a serious run in the long haul? could he develop enough infrastructure fast enough and get enough people onboard if the money comes in to make a run and spoil this for mitt romney? a lot of people think he is the nominee. >> well, like you, i'm not a big santorum supporter. i will say, he did something smart last night. he had a chance to introduce himself to a much larger group of voters, he used that opportunity to say, look, i'm a blue collar guy, i come from a blue collar state and if you pick me as your nominee in places like michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, i can be a lot more competitive than the hedge fund guy. basically. >> no other republican talks like that. >> that's right. that's why i think south carolina is a great state for him because he can go in there with a message that's a lot more resonant than mitt romney's. as for new hampshire, it's tough. there's a very short period of time for him to perform and get his bounce off iowa. he's in the single digits now and will perform a lot better than he's doing. >> jonathan, if he gets second
in new hampshire, he's really in business. fair enough? >> yeah. remember, i've seen primaries, ed, in the past where i landed in a state, like say gary hart in 1984. he had zero people on the ground. zero. and then a couple days later he'd win that primary. this is the way it works in presidential politics. so all this talk you see on things like intrade, you know, the markets for the candidates that people sometimes follow. they don't really comport to the dynamics of these races. and especially this year when things are so unsettled. when mitt romney has yet to break 25%. not just in iowa, but in national polls. 75% of republicans are uncomfortable with mitt romney. that's a real problem. >> now they've got, of course, newt gingrich, joy-ann, making this really personal. it's almost like this is his mission to make sure mitt doesn't get it. let's let the cards fall where they may. how effective is that going to be for santorum?
>> newt still has money. newt is still sitting on enough cash to play if not for himself, he's already openly said he'll do it for santorum. if you look at the map, that's been my issue for mitt romney. look at the map, he has to go down south, perform in jonathan said, unfriendly state for a mormon candidate. he goes to florida, heavily tea partied and influenced. rick perry is still out there. rick perry is still out there. >> what about that, bill? >> there's a lot of money in texas still there for rick perry. though he was terrible in the debates, he was very smart about how he spent his money. he ended his campaign in iowa as the candidate who had the highest favorables in the whole state. people may have made up their mind about rick perry. what he's probably doing is standing by hoping that rick santorum falls apart like every other front-runner has done in the republican field. you know, as long as he's in,
he's a factor, that's not helping rick santorum. >> isn't this great for the obama team to see the fighting going on on the right? >> mitt romney will still probably be the nominee. he's way out there on the ryan budget which is going to be a problem for him with seniors and others. where he's gone on immigration is irreparable with the hispanic community. >> great to have you with us. jonathan alter, joy-ann reid, bill burton. the remaining candidates will debate this weekend. we'll see a united effort to attack romney. that's next. living with the pain of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis... could mean living with joint damage. help stop the damage before it stops you with humira. for many adults with moderate to severe ra, humira's proven to help relieve pain and stop joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events can occur, such as infections,
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there's a debate in manchester, new hampshire, on saturday night. we can only imagine what's going to be going back and forth. it's the first time rick santorum will be front and center on the debate stage instead of way down on the end saying, hey, i'm here. he's going to be right next to the former massachusetts governor, where he belongs. he's earned it. the candidates will debate again sunday morning on nbc and msnbc hosted by moderator of "meet the press" david gregory. i won't miss that. let's bring back msnbc political analyst jonathan aller. msnbc contributor, joy-ann reid. and former press secretary for president obama, bill burton. all right. what kind of debate are we going to see this weekend? is it, jonathan, going to be a knockdown, drag-out? this is it. >> i hope so. this is first-class entertainment, ed. they've been good so far. the expectations are high for this weekend. because as the voting starts, a little sense of desperation sets in. and it's very, very hard to
consistently take the high road in these events. they've got to score points. and then you have somebody like newt gingrich who's made no secret of the fact that he wants to deliver some roundhouse punches to mitt romney. so at a minimum we're going to see that. >> joy-ann, are the candidates going to pile on mitt romney? >> well, except for ron paul who seems to be going after newt gingrich. he called him a chicken hawk already. you're going to see a lot of cross fire in this debate. it's going to be interesting because each of them has a mission. mitt romney has to once again prove he's acceptable to conservatives. newt gingrich claims he owns the debate forum. the pressure is on him to be really good. you know, ron paul has to prove he's not crazy which is always his charge. they all have so much at stake in the debates i think it's going to be a good show. >> mitt romney sold himself as the change candidate 2008. here's what his rival had to say about that. >> i just want to say to governor romney, we disagree on a lot of issues, but i agree,
you are the candidate of change. >> the entertainment continues. today john mccain endorsed mitt romney. does it matter? will it backfire? >> mitt romney, his problem with conservatives is they don't trust him. he's just as conservative if not more conservative than some of the other people in the field, especially on immigration where he's gone far off the deep end to the right wing. people don't trust him because he shifted his position so many times they don't think he's a guy who's going to go into the oval office and fight for the things they believe in. having john mccain come out the day after iowa, conservatives said, mitt romney, you're not our guy, serves to underscore that fact. >> here's what michele bachmann had to say this morning as she stepped out of the race. >> i believe that if we are going to repeal obama care, turn our country around and take back our country, we must do so united. and i believe that we must rally around the person that our
country and our party and our people select to be that standard bearer. >> some of the things, jonathan, she's said on the campaign trail, i just don't see her in any way, shape or form getting behind mitt romney. >> it doesn't matter whether she does. you know, correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't she not standing for re-election to the house? is it possible that finally we will be rid of this woman for good? >> well, i think -- i think she beat the deadline. i think she's okay. she could run for reelection in the house. >> maybe that's why she got out. >> there are going to be lot of people that want her to run for the senate seat against amy klobuchar. she can raise a lot of money and she's done that a lot. what is her future? i don't think she's still a viable person.
i mean, she's ahead of the tea party caucus in the congress. >> she's headed for being a kind of a junior minor league sarah palin. she'll do well on the lecture circuit. maybe she can get a reality show going. i don't think she'll do well statewide against amy klobuchar. i think klobuchar will stomp her should she run against her for the senate. >> that's right. amy klobuchar is one of the toughest senators in the united states senate. michele bachmann has gone around the country and embarrassed the state of minnesota. >> she barely won her seat last time. >> if she can stay disciplined, joy-ann, i mean, she gets the camera time. she has the camera moxy where she could get out there and really beat somebody up on camera and start the narrative that, you know, mitt's not the guy. >> yeah. i mean, you know what, she was actually pretty good in the last few debates. she actually stepped up her performance, but the problem is,
there's so much youtube history on michele bachmann that she does sort of come across as a bit of a joke. i think had she just done the really good debate performances she might be viable. maybe they'd think of her as a vp candidate. right now she's going to fade away. >> running theme for the republicans, bill, they want to repeal the health care act. how vehemently is the president going to defend that on the campaign trail? >> i think he's going to fight tooth and nail to make sure folks know there are a lot of great things that passed along with health care reform that republicans are not -- that the american people are not going to want to see repealed. folks can stay on their parent's until 26. can't be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions. you can't get kicked out of your health care plan as a result of -- >> republicans never seem to mention those things. >> there's something interesting santorum said on this. he actually believes you should be able to discriminate against people based on pre-existing conditions. >> yeah. >> he's on the record saying that. he's also clear he's going to go after romney big-time on similarities between obama care and romney care. >> health care is going to be a big issue. we have a lot of time to dig into rick santorum and his radical positions.
i want to thank you for being here tonight. thanks so much. rick santorum wants to create jobs by giving manufacturers 0% corporate tax rate. the plan helped him win iowa, but will it help american workers? ezra klein weighs in next. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar. the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now.
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and indigestion. so why wait ? ask your doctor today... ... about taking care with vesicare. "ed show" survey tonight, i asked, who was the real winner in iowa? 1% of you said mitt romney. 5% of you said rick santorum. 94% of you said president obama. amen to that. coming up, rick santorum's support for manufacturing won him votes in some key areas in iowa last night. ezra klein will tell us if it's a winning plan nationally. is to dig right in. but as his dentist, i know that to do that, he needs to use the brush more dentists use. oral-b. trust the brush more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. life opens up when you do.
and finally tonight, so santorum is resonating with republicans in large part because he's talking a pretty good game about manufacturing i think. i've seen him in action. bringing manufacturing jobs back to america has been a consistent part of his economic plan. i don't know how deep the plan is, but santorum spoke to me about it on this show back in september. >> the plan i put in place is a pro-manufacturing jobs plan. which cuts the corporate tax for all manufacturers from 35% to 0%. if you want to be pro worker, get the manufacturing jobs back, you'll see workers go from the bottom rungs of the earnings all the way up toward the middle and beyond. >> santorum's rival, mitt romney, does not want to focus on manufacturing. he addressed santorum's proposal this morning. >> i'm not going to try and guide which way this economy goes on i want to make sure there's a level playing field here.
we bring down our tax rates overall. i'm not going to pick out the one part of our economy that some would think would be the favorite. >> so how does all this talk work out? santorum's support for manufacturing worked for him in iowa. last night results in jasper and marion counties are a perfect example. both are big manufacturing regions. jasper county was home of maytag until 2006 when whirlpool bought out the company and shut the plant down. marion county is where you found pella windows and doors. rick santorum won both those counties last night with twice as many votes as mitt romney. talking to the working class, the middle class. joining me now, msnbc policy analyst and "washington post" columnist ezra klein. ezra, you've seen the plan. is it viable, feasible, workable? what do you think? >> probably not incredibly viable. the plan is right now manufacturers like other corporations pay a 35% tax rate.
at least in theory they pay quite lot lower. he'd wipe it out to zero. a lot of people who aren't necessarily manufacturers would try to become manufacturers, incorporate under what definition the legislature brings forward in that. that would be a big enforcement issue. if you get past that, it's a give-way to the manufacturing sector. you think it's a good idea or you don't. what's funny about it, it's a blunt policy tool normally supported with democrats, in fact, with liberals, that you wipe out tax liabilities and pick one giant winner in the entire economy. >> aren't you trusting these corporations when they repatriate their money that that's exactly what they're going to do with it instead of lining their pockets? they're going to be creating these manufacturing jobs? would santorum's plan create jobs? >> i think it probably would. it might destroy them other places. you'd have to be taking that money out of somewhere. yes, if you give manufacturers such a big leg up, one, you'll have more manufacturing, manufacturers start. another is that the manufacturers who are currently
operating in america will become more profitable. i should say there's a third you could have more manufacturing jobs that are currently overseas coming back here. there'd be a better deal. of course, if you pay companies to do things, they will do things for you. >> sure. >> that's not a complete novel idea. the question is, is it a good use of money? i can guarantee you economists will look at this provision and say this is an incredibly bad idea. you'll waste a vast amount of money paying manufacturers to do things they would already do and your bang for the buck is going to be fairly low. spending that money on infrastructure or something would be a much better use of resources. >> he's going to use this on the campaign trail. he's going to these older mill towns that have lost jobs, in new hampshire, to talk about just this. is this a plan you think would work for him on the campaign trail? >> it can't hurt or help separate him a little bit. show he has a little bit more blue collar sort of compassionate conservatism in him. there's actually relatively few things like this in santorum's plans. for all the talk of being a blue collar candidate