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tv   Martin Bashir  MSNBC  January 11, 2012 3:00pm-4:00pm EST

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our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪ good afternoon. it's wednesday, january 11th. and here's what's happening. republicans prepare to crown mitt the nominee. >> i got president obama coming next. >> but wait. >> i find powerful rich people rigging games very distasteful. >> south carolina is as good a place to draw that line in the sand as any. >> south carolina where evangelicals and an eviscerated economy await. and you can bet the president will be watching.
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yes, we begin with mitt romney adding a big win in new hampshire to his has squeaker in iowa. the first nonincumbent republican to deliver such a one-two punch since 1976. but today, governor romney touches down in the rough and tumable territory of south carolina where he could face the toughest test of this campaign. it's in the palmetto state's first in the south primary that romney will have to show that he can win over evangelicals and the tea party. both of which have serious doubts about his commitment to their cause. and with only two states in the bag, mitt's run away nomination is far from assured. just ask the newt gingrich with nothing left to lose, he's already locked his sights on one line of attack. >> pop pugh lift versus elitest. and i'm pretty clear about that.
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i am a middle class. my dad was an army officer. i find powerful, rich people rigging games very distasteful. >> powerful rich people. gosh, he's not one of them. nor is rick perry who's going all over south carolina comparing romney and his bain buddies to scavengers with wings as he did just hours ago. >> we need to have more venture capitalism going on in america and less vulture capitalism. the idea that we can't criticize someone for these get rich quick schemes is not appropriate from my perspective. >> now, the air is already well under way in south carolina and coming to a television near you. gingrich, romney, perry and their superpacs socking millions in ad buys and none of them are pretty. the ads i mean. take the gingrich pac add add that hits romney and company as corporate raiders and ads that
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earned the ire of conservative flame thrower rush limbaugh. >> you know, the newt pac, got an idea for you guys. recut your ads on romney. and your tag line is, i am barack obama and i approve of this message. >> and mr. romney had the same message for his rivals. delivered with his trademark panache at his victory speech last night. >> president obama wants to put free enterprise on trial. and in the last few days, we've seen some desperate republicans join forces with him. this is such a mistake for our party. >> for much more now, let's bring in our expert panel, in washington, democratic strategist julienne epstein and with me here in new york, msnbc contributor and democratic strategist crystal ball. julian, if i can start with you, isn't this now all about the crushing of convictions? because mitt romney, the man
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with the golden flip-flop, has to persuade principled conservative tea partiers and evangelical christians that they too show throw away their preys and vote for him? this is about the dissolution of principles and commitments in south carolina, isn't it? >> yeah, martin. it's kind of like the tin man syndrome. the idea that mitt romney has no real core to him and as republicans have to move to him as the default candidate, that kind of lack of core conviction is starting to infect the republican party. and there's plenty of evidence of this. if you look at the turnout in new hampshire last night, republicans underperformed. if you look at the enthusiasm gap that republicans had an advantage of in august, that's essentially gone. and if you look at a lot of the poll numbers and some of the gallup polls as of even the beginning of this week, obama had gained about 17 points. he was down 38-54 in the summer in some of the polls he's now close to tied or tied. so all of the evidence that not
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only is the republican has -- the republican party having this kind of existential crisis about not knowing who it is, now attacking romney from the political left, the enthusiasm gap gone and obama looking extremely presidential, this could not be working out better for democrats. >> crystal, in an article that's just about to post "us news & world report" which you've written, you write this "it's an incredible irony that in this time of populist movements, anti-establishment backlash and ideological purity, republicans are set to the nominate a pandering pluto crat who despite his transparent protestations to the contrary is the essence of the ruling class." despite the fact that it's difficult to say and read, isn't this the principally because romney is buying the nomination, isn't he? look at, he's raised in the final quarter of $201124 million and over all last year, 56 million. >> that's absolutely right. it's the fact that he is buying
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the election and with citizens united he can level all of these attacks against newt gingrich in iowa, totally unattributed. so voters are seeing negative ads but not linking hem it mitt romney. so there's no possibility of a negative backlash. i should point out too, in south carolina these bain attack ads coming from gingrich's pac also will be unattributed. so while conservatives are hoping there's a backlash against gingrich, voters won't know where those are coming from. the other piece from mitt romney is that he -- he's up against this field that is historically incredibly weak. it's less a statement of voters saying yes we want mitt romney rather than ah, i don't know about these other guys. romney did something very smart early on. he knew there was a danger for a strong true conservative to come out and coalesce voters. so he muddied the waters on who was really conservative on the race with rick prry and gingrich in particular.
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that's been very effective. >> despite romney's purchasing power, he's going to no doubt face the vengeful face of one newt gingrich, a man now flush with $5 million of his own from his casino benefactor cheryl adelson and ready to pour i assume buckets of manure all over him in south carolina. >> the story of new hampshire was really about three men and a baby. the three men obviously the front-runners, the baby being gingrich. not the first time he's been accused of infantile behavior. you know, newt gingrich has shown about as much fidelity to reagan's 11th commandment, thou shalt t not attack your fellow republicans as he show fidelity to his earlier marriages. the irony for republicans as crystal pointed out, the citizens united case is keeping this race and has the potential of keeping this race and this kind of warfare alive for much longer than it otherwise would. it is conceivable even if
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gingrich continues to do very, very badly in south carolina and florida, he can continue this race only because of this super pac money. and this becomes for romney, he becomes like king piros. he may win the victories but at what the cost? the cost to republicans in terms of the brand, the damage being done to romney is very, very serious here. >> crystal, in order for conservatives to coalesce around one candidate, say? south carolina, wouldn't it make more sense, for example, if santorum who might be the lead figure for conservatives, get rid of gingrich and perry or for gingrich perry and santorum? but the longer all of those three stay in, they can't really mount a serious individualistic challenge against romney. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. this race has been so fluid. you've had so many ephemeral front-runners they're all thinking gosh, maybe it will be my turn again next time around. >> they've all got superpacs. even when they individually run
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out of money, the superpac money just keeps coming. >> i think for gingrich as well, this isn't just about getting the nomination anymore. it's not about being president anymore. it's personal. he wants to have his revenge on mitt romney. i really don't think he cares about the country or the republican party. i think he cares about sort of avenging his honor and bloodying mitt romney. >> we know one thing about newt gingrich. when he wants revenge, he has his revenge. >> he's excellent at it. >> julian epstein and crystal ball, thanks for joining us. coming up, while mitt attacks the president, the praez tries to attack unemployment. >> my message to business leaders today is simple. ask yourselves what you can do to bring jobs back to the country that made our success possible.
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just a short time ago, the president unveiled his plan to bring back jobs outsourced from america. and you didn't have to lis too hard to hear the message he had for wall street and likely opponent mitt romney. >> i don't want america to be a nation that's primarily known for financial speculation and racking up debt buying stuff from other nations. that's part of the responsibility that comes with being a lead mer america. the responsibility not just to the shareholders or the stakeholders but a responsibility that we all have to live up to, whether we're in the private sector or the public sector, whether we're in washington or we're on wall street. >> so can this message about morality in business work? well, it sounds as if he's already got one devotee. >> criticizing specific action actions in specific places is
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not being anti-free enterprise. and crony capitalism where people pay each other off at the expense of the corrupt is not free enterprise. and raising questions about that is not wrong. >> wow. joining us now, democratic congressman charles rangel of new york. good afternoon, sir. >> good to be with you. happy to be here. >> the same to you. mitt romney last night said that the president wants to use the politics of resentment and envy. actually, he made a mistake because he should have been referring to his republican competitor who have accused him of doing that. however, we talk about the politics of envoy and of jealousy and resentment. but what about the vast disparity of wealth in this country? why is poverty, why is education for the needy, why are these issues not dominating the discussion? >> i don't know, martin. i get myself in a lot of trouble by saying that more than being in debt, it's the credibility we lose as a nation when our
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concern for people and sensitivity that we're known for, people leave their homes, they come here for hope and dreams and what not. in america, if you're poor, it's not nearly as bad if you have hope that you can get out of this crisis. and even if you talk about capitalism, you need to have these people being productive and make certain they're not sick, that they can work, that they're educated. it makes america great, yes, but it makes money for the capitalists, as well. so i can't think of anything to say except that we're sliding down a hill where morality and concern about our fellow man is not the greatest things that america stood for. and you know, pretty soon, they will tell you that slavery was a pretty damn good deal. everyone was working. everyone had a job. but there's nothing to shock the conscience of america and guess where i can get in trouble, i haven't heard from any of the spiritual leaders, tax exempt
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although they may be and crying out against same-sex marriage, right on and the ideas on abortion i'm not even disputing their ideas. but the whole idea of the rich being a handful of people holding close to half of the wealth of the nation and where one out of ten americans are in poverty and worse than poverty is slipping out of the middle class. you play by the rules. most people don't know, we never had a middle class until after world war ii. >> you live in new york. you serve the constituents of new york. i'm assuming that you know people who work in private equity. in fact, i'm assuming you probably get support for your own political campaigns from people who work on wall street. what do you think of the attacks on mitt romney, specifically as this vulture capitalist? >> i -- i really think that mitt romney's one of the most awkward
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speakers i've ever heard. and so there is so much to attack him for. but because he went into a business that it was to shrink the business and get rid of people who he considers waste that is unnecessary to move forward, some live, some die, it's one of the virtues that no one should be proud of, but it's capitalism as this country has known it. and you know, it surprises me to hear the republicans attacking him on this because they're just trying to make some points, you know, in iowa, but the truth of the matter is a part of capitalism is survival of the fittest, and it's not built on the question of compassion. that's why guys like me are around. that's why the church is around. that's why other people are around. and that's what biblically they're saying. that's what jesus was about. the same groups, evangelists and i talk to them every day are now the ones that are attacking the very same principles that most everybody that believes in any
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superior being would say that's the necessity of a person, a community and a country. >> so as an experienced long-term member of the congress, how do you think mr. romney's charge is going to serve him against the president in 2012, assuming that mr. romney wins the nomination? >> his charge of what? >> his approach, his approach accusing the president of spinning the line that it's the politics of envy. >> i have so much confidence in the american people, i refuse to believe that in this country, that with the exception of jon huntsman, that those people who get up there and talk in terms of hurting people and the more you can hurt and cut and the more you can protect the rich, the better american you are, that's not going to fly in my country. i don't know what that he going to do in north carolina and what they do in new hampshire and that's a silly way in order for us to elect our leaders. i feel so embarrassed in talking
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with europeans to tell them that this is a me view to what we're going to have in november. but having said that, hey this country ain't worth living in if america is going to say, that's not might america. everyone should have a chance in this great country. why? because that's our reason for existence. we have no total reason to exist. native americans had reason to exist, but the whole world said, you get to america and you stand a better chance of making it. >> congressman charles rangel, thanks so much for coming here today. >> thank you martin. >> coming up next, the do nothing congress of 2011 up to its old tricks again in 2012. students use ipads to enter science lab work and study
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with all the stage managed celebration around last night's primary vote in new hampshire, it's easy to forget politicians are not the most popular people on the planet, especially
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members of congress. indeed, the current class has been described as the worst ever. having passed fewer bills and resolutions than harry truman's infamous do nothing congress. and now some of the most controversial and important pieces of legislation, including bush tax cuts, payroll tax cuts, and defense spending cuts, are on the table. the only problem? congress isn't there. joining us now is nbc's luke russert, slightly more casually attired than normal. >> recess day, mark. like the staffers and the members. >> no criticism. we're all relatched with that look. >> 2012, my friend, first time on the broadcast with you this year. >> congress is coming back next week having had a nice three weeks vacation. the house is only returning for six days this entire month, the senate only for three days. what can possibly get done in. that time. >> and who are importantly, how do you get a vacation package like that. it's a very nice vegas
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package. they're doing constituent work which is very important, connecting with those folks in their district and hearing about their problems and concerns and that working help them further out in washington, d.c. as far as what they can get done in the six days the house is back in january of this month as well as the three days in the senate, really nothing. there will be a few perhaps ceremonial bills of commemorating something or something that's very partisan on both sides. the one thing you will see is that there is a conference committee that has been assigned to figure out the task with bipartisan group from both the senate and house figuring out what to do about the payroll tax cut extension that expires at the end of february. they had their first meeting today, the senate finance committee and the ways and means committee in the house. we're moving in the direction of work in that regard, martin. but as far as any concrete substantive work that will get done in january. >> they're all still on holiday. the house right now is going through a bunch of quickie pro
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forma sessions called to order, a prayer, recite the pledge, bang the gavel and you're done. democratic leaders have been trying to press for business, right as the session is over. the gop has been turning off the mic. are we going to continue seeing these kind of games? it's hilarious to watch but it's not very good for the country, is it? >> no, it is really humorous to watch. yesterday i was in the house chamber and saw jim moran literally stand at a podium in front of 24 tourists banging and saying we should try to pass the payroll extension with the c-span cameras turned off. nevertheless, you'll see probably the same thing friday when there's a pro form that session. this has been a tactic employed by nancy pelosi and house republicans back in 2008 when they wanted to talk about an energy bill. so the minority party usually does this type of thing if they're trying to garner attention and trying to get some traction. will it really resonate with the
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american people? will the 24 hour media machine has been focused very much on iowa and new hampshire, i don't suspect it will resonate with the voting public just yet. but the payroll tax cut extension is an important issue. 160 million americans affected. if there's a chance that could expire, i'm sure you'll hear a lot of constituent complaints come february. >> luke russert there on capitol hill. the man who is working today will be casually attired. >> in my buffalo business casual, martin. >> thank you very much. coming up, iran points fingers after a nuclear scientist is killed. but first, ron paul, dangerous and proud in today's top lines. >> i don't like you because you're dangerous. >> that's right. >> i am dangerous. ok! who gets occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas or bloating?
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mitt's flying high. newt ready to drop a bomb, and ron paul, well, he's dangerous. here are today's top lines. negative ghost rider. the patent is full. >> tonight, we made history. >> with a ticket to ride and the move on, here we go to south carolina. >> for those who would like to think that this race could be over in one or two states, states that have been, well, let's say the backyard and the home of a certain candidate and -- >> i sort of have to chuckle when they describe you and me as being dangerous! >> we are dangerous to the status quo of this country. >> i don't like you because you're dangerous. >> that's right. >> i am dangerous. >> they're vultures sitting out there waiting for the company to get sick.
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>> it almost sounds like occupy wall street. >> he's going to have to face up to this at some time or another. and south carolina is as good a place to draw that line in the sand as any. >> i find powerful rich people rigging games very distasteful. >> the newt pac recut your ads on romney and your tag line is, i am barack obama and i approve of this message. >> i just wonder whether they're totally ignorant of economics or whether they're willing to demagogue with hopes of getting a vote or two. >> we expected president obama to put free enterprise on trial. we're a little spiesed to see it coming from speaker gingrich and others. i don't think it will work in south carolina. >> if romney can win south carolina, he's probably going to be the nominee. this is his big test. >> you know, iowa is a fine state. new hampshire is an interesting place. south carolina is who picks presidents. >> let's get right to our expert
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panel. in washington, msnbc political analyst michael dyson, professor at georgetown university. joining us here in new york is joann reed and the managing editor of the grio.com. professor dyson, i want to start with you. you heard in top lines ron paul call himself dangerous to wild applause. and i guess as far as some republicans are concerned, is he dangerous. though his meandering speech sounded a little like a deluded fan taist. >> no doubt. i think his danger lies in the fact that he's willing to take facts out of context to reinterpret ideas and particular understanding of the world according to his quite distorted viewpoi viewpoint. i'm even afraid to praise him because he took said out of context and ran it as an ad in new hampshire. so the thing is is that the danger is that what's in danger here is the truth and the facts in the context that is balanced and insightful.
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i think that rambling speech proves ron paul is trying to backtrack over some of the stuff he said back in the '70s and '80s that was quite problematic and destructive and trying to present himself as an open minded libertarian when it's a repackaging of the same old bigotry we've seen before. >> joann, we know south carolina is going to get very, very na y nasty. newt is preparing to some some bombs. fair dues to rick, he remembers the phrase and he keeps using it. good on him. but isn't there a problem here for republicans in that i think political scientists tell us if there are more than three nevada attack ads coming, the voters tend to believe that everyone's negative and that they're all corrupt. >> especially since they're going to be flooding the zone with so much advertising. you have all of this sort of negative messaging barraging voters. i think the republicans core problem is they have multiple negative messages, none of which
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are helpful to them in a general election. you have romney's tested phrase don't put free enterprise on trial. what ordinary person votes for someone because you support free enterprise. every american does. then you've got this other message that he's a rapacious greedy capitalist. if he's the nominee, doesn't that follow him into the general election? then you've got republicans, people like rush limbaugh, the redstate.com crowd who are absolutely offended by these attacks on what they think of as the creative destruction of capitalism. meaning firing people. >> professor dyson, i want to discuss the first lady, michele obama. she made some comments in an interview with gayle king that are getting some buzz. take a listen to this. >> i guess it's more interesting to imagine this many conflicted situation here and a strong woman and you know -- but that's been an image that people have tried to paint of me since you
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know, the day barack announced, that i'm some angry black woman. >> professor dyson, i guess for some people who happens to be highly effective is simply too much for them to stomach. >> absolutely right. from the very beginning, first lady michelle obama is absolutely right. and i personally spoke on this issue at several fora where i said look, a highly intelligent gifted woman like here, she has a law degree from harvard, she was the bread winner that family for a long time, this woman is extremely independent, cape until, articulate, brave, beautiful and courages jus and that package together must like joe ann reed sitting there, that package together often is too much. >> stop flattering joann read. >> i'm just telling the truth. that package is often too much for people to take. either you've got to be one or other. when the package is seamlessly produced, that does create quite a bit of consternation in the
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minds and imaginations of so many people who are onlookers. >> joann, i thought america was about people like michelle obama breaking through the glass ceiling and doing really well. and yet, you can tell in that response that there's a real sense that she's been the victim of this kind of bile that suggests that she's an angry black woman. >> absolutely. i think michelle obama was caricatured from the campaign on, whether it was people sort of the terrorist fist jab remark or her being portrayed in a magazine cover. >> that was just the lunatic sarah palin. >> or on fox news or the picture for the cartoon cover of her sort of this angela davis where she can't be intelligent unless she'ses this angry black woman. for women in politics, it's an issue. look at hillary clinton and this portrayal if you're all opinionated or give your opinion to the president of the united states as his spouse, then you're lording over policy. michelle obama has done the opposite. she has her own portfolio. i this i she's done remarkly
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well portraying herself as a mom, as someone who cares about children and obesity, dealing with the soldiers and families. she's done a very good job branding herself. i don't think the white house wants to wade back into this conversation about race. >> professor michael dieson and joe and reed, as the professor said, the multitalented joann reed, thank you very much indeed. what would jesus do in the candidates head to south carolina where the evangelicals await. >> there are people who want to elect a commander in chief. they're not worried about electing a pastor in chief. that's not what i'm running for. whee wheeeeeeeeeeeee! wheeeeeeeeeeee! whee whee wheeeeeeeeeeee-he-he-heeeeee! whee whee wheeeeeeeeeeee! pure adrenaline.
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political battles modern times. mitt romney appeared on "morning joe" today claiming he's confident his faith will not be an issue. >> there are people who want to elect a commander in chief. they're not worried about electing a past for in chief. that's not what i'm running for. >> those remarks echo another presidential candidate who faced similar questions in his campaign of 1960. tony perkins is the president of the family research council. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> before we deal with the issue of romney's politics, you know that many evangelicals regard mormonism as a cult and as an her ret cal secretary. a man no less than the reverend franklin said this, it's going to be difficult for romney as a more mon with the evangelical community. for most christians, mormonism is an issue. do you think that committed christians in south carolina will be able to accept mitt
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romney's political credentials in the light of his own religious standing? >> i think you have two sets of issues. when you talk about his faith, his mormonism, i don't think we can dance around the issue there are some significant theological differences between the beliefs of evangelicals. >> the orthodox church and the more mons. >> there's no question there's a difference here. what i have seen and this goes back to four years ago, it's not so much about his faith. i actually don't hear that brought up very much. it's more about the political positions that he held when he was governor of mass pass. that's more of an issue. and his newly arrived at positions which they like, in can the fa, four years ago, many, many evangelicals who were warming to mitt romney, but in cycle he kind of dropped his approach to that community and has not talked much about the issue. >> on the issue of his politics, you said last november and i'm quoting you, his record means a lot more than rhetoric and when you look at his record, there
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are some real problems. what were you referring to? what problems? >> well, i mean, he ran against ted kennedy as being pro-choice. >> yes. >> he has taken. >> one. >> and that's a big issue. >> sure. >> when you talk about the republican party that has a platform that one of the key planks is to be the party of life, that is a clear distinction between him and the democratic party. so you can't just kind of pass that off. now, he said that you know, and i sat down and talked with him about it. and i think that his new position is genuine. but what has given his critics rise in credibility is again that he hasn't really talked much about these issues in this election cycle and he has not really tried to work within a very important constituency of the republican party. he's kind of taking the mccain path to the nomination. which may be a good path to the nomination but not necessarily the presidency. >> i want to get your reaction to an anti romney political ad just released. listen to this.
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>> sorry. we don't have it. but he talks there about or the ad talks about romney's position on a woman's right to choose and on introducing health care in massachusetts. these being issues that are problems for him. >> i mean, that's a big problem. when you look at how prevalent the obama care was in the last landslide election for republicans, it's hard for him to distance himself from almost a mirror plan in massachusetts. now, i know that it was a state-driven plan but it was still a mandate that came from a government entity. so the i think that's going to take a huge issue off the table in a general election between him and president barack obama. i mean, this is an issue over 60% of americans are opposed to this government takeover of health care. that's an issue off the table if mitt romney is the nominee. >> setting aside mr. romney for a moment, let's think for a moment about the electorate in south carolina.
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if evangelicals were steadfast, would you not expect them to rush to support someone like rick santorum supposed to mitt romney? >> i think, look -- >> would you? >> well, i think many will. i mean, but it's not just rick santorum and mitt romney. you've got rick perry in the race who is staying in the race, has a lot of money and has a strong presence and has a good record. i like rick perry. >> and is a committed christian and stands firm on these issues. >> then you have another candidate pursuing that segment of the population, newt gingrich. >> he's got major problems as you well know. >> i know, but he is getting some of that vote as we saw yesterday in new hampshire. so it's not just a one-on-one. but i do think you're seeing more and more gravitate toward rick santorum because i think people see him as all the other candidates have had their day out front and they've lost their lead, their ability to be the
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alternative to mitt romney. rick santorum hasn't at present. he's keeping it. he'll go into south carolina with it and we'll see how he comes out of south carolina. >> thanks so much for joining us. we do appreciate it. next the assassination of a nuclear scientist and new accusations of a covert war in issue. first julia boorstin has the market wrap. >> take a look at how stocks are doing right now. just about 15 minutes left before the closing bell. the dow is now down about 4.5 points. s&p 500 up about a point and the nasdaq higher by 9.5 points. the stocks have pared their losses ahead of the close. banks have made some gains as investors look past europe's debt crisis and start of again to focus on fundamentals. that's it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. see plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel.
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james bond movie. two assailants on a motorcycle
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attach a magnetic bomb to the car of a iranian university professor working at a key nuclear facility. the bomb detonates and he is killed. iran quickly turns suspecting eyes toward the u.s. and israel. trouble is this isn't the scene doctor fr an action film, it's a description of what has happened in iran. this afternoon hillary clinton categorically denied any involvement in the attack. it's just the latest in the escalating tensions involving that country. for more, good afternoon, mike, this is now something like the fourth attack in two years. from the outside, i'm of a paid it seems as though somebody certainly wants to interfere with iran's nuclear research. who would be interested for example in murdering a scientist working at a nuclear facility in iran? >> well, i think you've given the short list of candidates already.
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and i don't think the united states would be quite so categorical if we were involved. so i think that leaves by process of elimination the most likely candidate. but this is a method of affecting other states poll ticks that iran has mastered over the years. iran is the king of assassinations in iraq. so there's a certain sense that iran has opened the door to this kind of behavior by its own terrorism and assassination campaigns and its neighbors. that it doesn't necessarily mean that we want tone courage more of this because you can get into a retaliatory cycle and you have no idea where it winds up. and i take it secretary at her work on this. but you can also understand why some other country living closer by that has been more directly threatened by the ahmadinejad regime might not be so restrained. >> and you mean of course israel. >> yes. >> what do you make of chavez and ahmadinejad joking about developing nuclear weapons
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together? >> i see no reason to think it's a joke. i don't think they feel any need to apologize for it except they don't want to give the u.n. security council or the major western powers any quotes that we can use against them in the international court of public opinion or if our international efforts to tighten sanctions. so they may want to sound like they're joking or put a civilian nuclear energy face on it, but from hair point of view, the world is dominated by western powers that have nuclear weapons and insist on double standards by which the iranians themselves and other developing countries can't have any. they consider that fundamentally unfair. the only exceptions to the system seem to be unstated cases like israel which are western allies or friends, so from iran's point of view, there's no need to apologize or joke. in their minds, they're pulley legitimated in going after nuclear weapons themselves.
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but they don't stay because it would make our job easier puts sanctions on them. >> there is little doubt that tensions between iran and the west are increase willing. secretary clinton called the threats to close the straits of hormuz provocative and dangerous. we know british and american naval vessels are in the region. should we be concerned about some kind of conflict inching closer by the day? >> well, there is greater likelihood i think than there was. and my esteemed colleagues on the subject have both written about how they worry about these steps. i support them myself. because i think part of what iran's doing is bluster. part of what iran is doing is saying, listen, if you want to talk about air strikes against our nuclear facilities, if you want to talk about putting missile defenses if through the region, beefing ining up your my capabilities, and if some unidentified countries are interested in using computer worms and car bombs, we feel the
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right to retaliate in a sense. and this is just innocuous form of retaliation. and i think they're trying to spook countries like china into not going along with tighter sanctions. they want the world to believe this seemingly bloodless approach is followed, that iran could spill blood over it and therefore maybe countries will think twice. so i view it in those terms. i think it indicates that iran is concerned, but i don't think iran really will shut down the strait of hormuz because if they play that game, it's a game that we know how to win. we can have substantial losses in the process, but iran will not prevail. >> michael ow o hanlon, thank y for joining us. we'll be right back to clear the air. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if you took the top down on a crossover? if there were buttons for this?
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it's congratulations to mr. romney. a man whoses principles are firmly planted in midair and who has managed a comprehensive victory in new hampshire. congratulations indeed to him. but now comes south carolina. and the conundrum that has republicans scratching their heads and worrying about the way forward. especially two groups of principled conservatives. first, there's a large meeting of the tea party in myrtle beach at the weekend where gingrich and santorum are expected to speak. but how does the tea party respond to a businessman like mitt romney, especially since he has never been a tea party favorite? just listen to what the founder of the tea party nation said recently on this broadcast. >> the tea party will never rally behind mitt romney. >> not much love there. also he at the weekend on friday in fact, 150 evangelicals are expected to gather together at a ranch in texas to consider how they should respond to romney's
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recent successes in iowa and new hampshire. is he the candidate that they believe best represents their convictions? not if you ask the reverend jim garlo, a megachurch pastor from san diego. he described him as untrustworthy and said mr. romney is not visceral on the issues that are cardinal to me. irony of all of this is that mitt romney, the man with the golden flip-flop, must persuade both tea partiers and evangelicals to forego their principles, too, in an effort to win their support. thanks so much for watching. dylan ratigan is here to it take us forward. how are you? >> i'm fantastic. thank you for asking. i couldn't help but notice the nice quality of your tie today. you look very hand some p.isoy .

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