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tv   World Apart with Oxana Boyko  RT  September 28, 2013 10:29pm-11:01pm EDT

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well if the new will show more than a life should be immune to all the face i think i'm getting. a pleasure to have you with us here on t.v. today i'm sure.
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i don't welcome two worlds apart afghanistan is slated to hold presidential elections next year a move that has already been described as the make or break moment for the country and while the international community is if it's a system gonna stand on its democratic transition isn't it simply too brisky to have a battle for power at a time when more afghani people are killed than in many of the previous here as well to discuss that i'm now joined by young special out of boy afghanistan mr cooper's thank you very much for your time i know that your mission has a very special role in assisting the april abode and i understand that the democratic transition is invalid in the afghanistan's call but a constitution even though it has never been attempted before but the question is really whether it is the right time for the elections often don't go smoothly even more peaceful environment in afghanistan we still have
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a war this is indeed the right time and the election is the only way sure proper democratic transition and indeed although the situation is complicated and indeed also from the point of the security we cannot say that the situation is stable economically the country is struggling also with itself the trend of. do we draw the international forces there this is exactly for this reason that we need good quality democratic transition in the country to transfer all for political power from one group as per the constitution to another group from one president to another president i think we all agree on the virtues of democracy but your own organization just recently published a report according to east three thousand civilians more than three thousand civilians have been killed in the country in the first five months of this year and that this is twenty five percent more than last year and it looks like violence is
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still the primary way of settling scores and simply doing politics in afghanistan so. in your view how big is the chance that instead of you know how thing of ghana strong move towards a brighter democratic future in those elections will plunge the country into here period of even more bloodshed and chaos it's true the country is still in the war the insurgency sector and. on top of everything this is exactly the year when the insurgency will try to manifest their power and it means that in many places of the country we will see still ongoing conflict tension clashes and to activities but. in general the expectations are that the security environment will be good enough to have the election in april next year as planned but as far as understand security is not the only issue and again according to one of the u.n.
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agencies the office for drugs and crime the level of corruption in afghanistan has risen sharply and. as far as i understand it now accounts for twice the amount of afghanistan's official ravening so in a country where everybody. is accustomed to pay everybody for everything and i guess the concept of public service is just a concept it's not realized and practiced how can he really ensure the transparency and integrity of the ballot well we are speaking about two different things very closely interconnected of course corruption is there no one can deny that as far as the election process are concerned again it is for the independent organs the authorities of the country notably for the independent electoral commission that is to be constituted now based for the first time on very tight legal norms it's just
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days ago the department to prove the respective law and the president signed the respective role and now the process of establish. independent electoral commission . let me challenge year a little bit on that you just mentioned the creation of that commission and even if that commission is fully transparent and. enjoys high credibility among people how would you make sure that the decisions of those commission are actually implemented on the ground because the organization of of any major ballot is not just about you know one body at the top it is up to. sounds of thousands of people on the ground who actually take care of the of the voting procedures and again those people according to all of his ations including your own labor live a life when they have to pay bribes on
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a daily basis when they have to pay bribes teachers doctors police officers job just let me just call it one more thing that since fancy international last year ranked afghanistan one hundred seventy four out of one hundred seventy six countries in the world when you have the system that is recognized as one of the most corrupt in the world and when it is legitimized through a popular vote one can ask whose inches that flowed freely serves. first of all this is not. just now that the commission has been established as i said the commission has been working for quite a period of time they were actively engaged in a previous election they learned the lessons and of course there are some problems in the past but i can assure. that disappoint of time for example the section process of ghost it will be for a king on voter registration on during the polling day etc is very strict it's very tough and of course for example individuals did last time failed to deliver their
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duties according to the high standards will not be recruited the second question and it is extremely important impartiality. electoral body will be judged on the basis of the composition of the commission as a political organ before the commission was appointed by his exocet mr president at this point of time to process is different there will be a nomination commission create they will come and select the two numerous candidates proposed by civil society proposed by by by the academic proposed by everyone. the number of candidates twenty seven if i'm not wrong and then mr president. i also worked nine commissions so the process is much more credible i'm rather confident that we would have. relatively good quality system in place to be able to ensure their work to all workers will be done large of good quality and
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that the leadership of the commission will be by and large of quality to be able to deliver. biological quality election now we discuss the system of which you seem to be very optimistic let's talk about people and groups who may take part in those elections and has the president publicly stated that he wants the taliban take part in these dimmock democratic transition do you consider taliban at this stage to be rapturous representatives legitimate representatives of the afghani people. well the only legitimate representative stan is the government of afghanistan i would like to make the sport very clearly. that it's true that the movement the taliban has certain support in different parts of the country so from that perspective and this is. behind the appeal of mr president to taliban movement to
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stop fighting and to transform itself into a political movement and to take part in the political process of the country and the death toll that we've already mentioned those at least more than three thousand civilians that have been killed in afghanistan so far the responsibility for the deaths of many of us maxims and lies on the taliban and with the now aware of them intentionally launching attacks in public places funerals weddings you just sad that you would welcome. to political process but it's hard to really digest for anyone that a group that up until now has been targeting its own civilians would be now taking part in the political in their legitimate political process and indeed if they garner any significant support that's what the did to my eyes what they did in the past that the people of the honest i'm sick are sick of tired of this war that is lost and for dk. they would like to have peace they would like to have normal lives
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for that they need stability for that they need good government and the only real legitimacy can come to the democratic forces of the election that's why it's so important to have the election to have them on time and basically to do everything to make them as transparent as credible as possible and with the broadest possible participation in the election that says the united nations and your own mission and the country represents democratic values you try to promote a democratic values doesn't mean that by. began. calling on the taliban to join the political process doesn't mean that all their previous tactics which in any other country would be inane terrorism and al forgotten doesn't that track record mean something do they have to come accountable for you know the methods that they selected political matters that they selected up until now i think no one is
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writing a blank check to anyone and definitely come to believe is a principle that must be there and will be there for everyone and we are making very clear in our statements toward old into government force about to to do everybody in the country that even wore a certain groups in war is regulated by law by international law so no one is trying to draw a thick line behind this but again it this is wanting accountability the second thing is. an appeal to everyone if you would like to influence the future of the country this is the time and the method is the only one so essentially what you're saying it's true is that there are principles and common sense because it's in that a couple of years ago the position of both the united nations and some of the international players prominent in that and afghanistan are somewhat different no one is trying to find solutions the expense of principles the principles and that's
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why i said accountability is there. people who are committing crimes will eventually be punished for them those individuals that are responsible for things. so the principles will remain there and the united nations is there to uphold them four numbers here is the united nations listed both al qaeda and the taliban as terrorist organizations but just a few months before your. mandate began. the taliban as far as i understand it was taken off that list to encourage the. afghan reconciliation process why do you think it took so long. make that move because i think it was advocated by your predecessor for quite some time let's put it like this it's. not . precisely the situation. one sanctions list is the list of. representatives of the taliban movement and there are certain provisions. for those
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that. sincerely would like to be a part of a political process is a search for peace and national reconciliation and there isn't a so-called listed list of those that are willing and are willing to day activities in a gonna stand are part of the international terrorist networks and that's a separate list and again no one dropped the fight against terrorism doesn't matter who is pro promoting this but as far as i understand the approach to. the taliban are somewhat different now and i think some analysts at least at least in moscow i last go by the way still sees the taliban as terrorists grow they would argue that these somewhat softer approach towards the taliban on the part of the united nations essentially follows a u. turn in the american policy towards the taliban and we know that the united states after years of waging war against the taliban is now considering the taliban as its
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negotiating partner how would you respond to that criticism that the u.n. linus saw was. influenced by the american policies first of all those russian almost you are referring to they should ask this question. notably permanent members of the security council because of course the security council to decide it that is high time to create two lists at a slightly different regime and slightly different expectations of this secondly. if you are asking what is our position it is indeed if we want to have political solution we must create the conditions for reaching such a political solution and it means. conditions that would enable those on the side of the taliban to to at least to be a part of political solution to become part of the political solution we'll continue this conversation a right after
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a short break. a . very. good. live. legs
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legs live. a. and i think. we would.
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welcome back to worlds apart and we are discussing the dangers and the promises of democratic transition in afghanistan if the u.n. special envoy to the country mr. just before we went to the break i mentioned. the american policies towards the taliban have somewhat changed and the united states is now openly holding talks with the taliban through the so-called terror track and i know this question has been addressed to you before but still. you know the american legacy in afghanistan is very controversial and many people resent them mark and presence on the ground why would the united nations. the initiative the peace initiative to the americans at this very crucial point of time well first of all. all to stop funding search of peace emotional reconciliation.
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through the process of consultations. to say that the united states. is a particularly crucial part to. all what is happening in afghanistan. was because of the terrorist attack on the not the states that the international community notably u.s. and i said. started being ajman to military engagement in afghanistan and it is now only clear and very dominant engagement of the united states that we can have certain solutions but why do you thing after some many here is a waging a gang of waging a war against the taliban and the taliban was proclaimed alamy of the united states one day american invasion into afghanistan began so after all those years of trying
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to root out the influence of taliban in afghanistan why do you think the americans are changing tactics well i will leave assessments of different phases of disengagement. to military and political historians for me the most important thing is. that. the international community together with afghanistan came to the conclusion that there is no military solution to the situation the duma solution is political one and therefore. the political turk must be predominant why do you feel that political track see the americans because some would argue that the united states is primarily responsible for creating all that mass in afghanistan surely the country had many decades of instability partially because of the soviet invasion and the american influence that was aimed at countering the soviet invasion but if we look at the last decades if it is primarily the americans
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who are responsible for for. making afghanistan into what it is now and trusting the best finding. a solution doesn't seem like a pretty good often a place to. have servants i would like to be cool but once again it is the essence of to do a process. in a very simplistic way street two pronged approach one discussions between the united states and the taliban the second the true drum together with this. discussions into. discussions the taliban movement and the parties that are presenting the constitutional order over gonna stop the current government. plus political forces that are there. should be a part of the solution as well. so this is not
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the picture that. some analysts that you are referring to are trying to present the disses a u.s. led exercise this is not deconstruction is an afghan that exercise with one component of direct u.s. taleban discussion on the issues that they do have in common for example prisoners in a guard one time a more us prison. captured by the taliban that just made a reference to. the military presence of foreign troops in the country and that it is going to answer it just happens that the end of the military presence will coincide with the political transition and. heard a lot of western officials while claiming that double move but if you look at it from the other side you can also see it as a double whammy and an extremely unfair just so it's always the afghani people because i don't want to have not only the security arrangement changes in any
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significant way and there are still whole lot of concerns about the ability of the army and the police to operate but also the political transition that again you expressed earlier. it's somewhat grave concerns about because we don't. you know how it's going to. turn out is it fair to subject the afghan people to such a drastic change when the bather space out those two major moves and make it easier on the country and on the people it's true that this d.v.d. of some of ten years on predictability. is creating a lot of problems and a lot of questions. and. indeed it is not the easiest situation at the same time the decisions are taken. and to speculate what would be better moat at this point of time it's simply a futile exercise. both to the people of afghanistan they know that this is what's
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going to happen. the international community knows this all of us you know that so our task is to make it happen but let's be fair it's the international community the so-called international community that was a death forefront of many of the of the negative changes that were brought into afghanistan over the previous decades and now you say that ok the decisions are made and they have to leave with whatever is left by this isn't unfair because people want to ask the right consulted about the invasion of their own country and now it doesn't look like they're being consulted about you know the new set of conditions that are being imposed on them well coming back to the basics. of the people's reaction to what happened and to being a judgment of the international community united states nato. i believe it's the best proof is that we didn't weeks the old regime of the taliban collapsed that's
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the best response that you can have as a proof of what was stated to talk to people. they welcomed us they welcomed the change very much now dave. like and they do will come to change the end of the military presence of the international community so again this is very well in line what is the thinking of the people while they are concerned they they see a lot of unpredictability is they're not sure how the things will work they are not sure that the international community will be with them one of the messages both from the united nations and from the international community is indeed there is not not indeed no cliff at the end of two thousand and fourteen but the assistance will continue the engagement of key partners of the international community key countries is another proof of their commitment they are pledging concrete amounts of money and that will be provided. development assistance in the years after two
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thousand and fourteen yes no question it's a risky exercise it's a major challenge and as many things are changing at the same time people are concerned people are war it people are unsure but at the same time this is very well what is their wish the end of this military exercise and final question he just mentioned that they support the continuing support of the international is there but it looks like their own mission in afghanistan. has just been recently downsized that you had to close a lot of your regional offices if i'm not mistaken so again given everything that you said about how important the time is and in the history of afghanistan and how uncertain is the future. it does look like everybody is living
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afghanistan ride on the eve of that crucial transition and i don't want to mention any metaphors of the sinking ship and so on but you know those metaphors immediately count to mind well the united nations has been a constant for decades. the un was there before the taleban coaster i don't know how many decades for five to kate's. well not in forty six so a little bit a lot of lot of activities of different kind including support for afghan refugees during different phases of of the history of the understanding the countries approach notably in the neighboring countries and the united nations will state or this is the intention and this is again the vision of the people of the government of afghanistan. we are not backing it's true that we are refocusing we cannot simply pretend that nothing is changing in the country we were spread all around the country while indeed the international presence was shown current there are
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many different operations going on basically to be able to deliver our mandate now with this phase that it's over we are refocusing ourselves we do not need so many persons is on the ground although we will maintain a considerable network of offices at least that's the plan we hope for a march that we'll have support for this but our message is we are not leaving we are staying oh i hope your optimism could translate not only it's the afghani people but also the people who visit afghanistan i was there just a year ago and it's still. a very very dangerous township where you have to think twice about whether you want to go out even to have a dinner you know. all these great ideas about democracy and the political transition do seem to be a bit of a wishful thinking at this point of time. but obviously everybody else has the best
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for the afghan people i'm fortunate that this is all they have time for but please join us again fan place same time here and hold. this point be an expensive car saloon. like snoop clueless a new fashion show. also designing bangs and shoes in the best shop windows. luxury is a school. this is a lost cause. constantly
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born. free media. the world. in the next few days to over. other countries. council resolution. process. claims of slavery. in greece some members of parliament. on the leader. of the extreme right golden dawn party. was faced with a. public. hoping to persuade people that any future war would not be so bad after all.


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