tv World Apart with Oxana Boyko RT September 29, 2013 10:29am-11:01am EDT
i don't come from money without the internet i would definitely not have this job and i'd probably be worshipping at the feet of rush limbaugh deluded by the mainstream media modern technology can make your mind with information or break it with cat videos and dumb trendiness but that's up to you and this is just my opinion. i don't welcome two worlds apart afghanistan is slated to hold presidential elections next year a move that has already been described as the make or break moment for the country and while the international. system gallus than honest in a crowded conditions isn't it simply too risky to have a battle for power at
a time when more afghanis can pull are killed. in many of the previous years well to discuss that analogy one by young special envoy to afghanistan mr cooper thank you very much for your time i know that your mission has a very special role in assisting the april abode and i understand that the democratic transition is embedded in the afghanistan's called constitution even though it has never been attempted before but the question is really whether it is the right time for the elections often don't go smoothly even more peaceful environment in afghanistan we still have a war. sure. and indeed although the situation is complicated and indeed also from the point of security we cannot say that this situation is stable economically the country is
struggling also with itself and the trend of. the dividual of the international forces there this is exactly for this reason that we need a good quality democratic transition in the country a transfer of political power from one group as part of the constitution to another group or from one president to another president i think we all agree on the virtues of democracy but your own organization just recently published a report according to east three thousand civilians more than three thousand civilians have been killed in the country in the first five months of this year and that this is twenty five percent more than last year and it looks like violence is still the primary way of settling scores and simply doing politics in afghanistan so. in your view how big is the chance that instead of you know how thing of ghana strong move towards a brighter democratic future in those elections will plunge the country into
a period of even more bloodshed and chaos it's true the country is still in the war the insurgency sector and. on top of everything this is exactly the year when the insurgency will try to manifest their power and it means that in many places of the country we will see still ongoing conflict tension clashes and to activity but. in general the expectations are that the security environment will be good enough to have the election in april next year as planned but as far as understand security is not the only issue and again according to one of the u.n. agencies the office for drugs and crime the level of corruption in afghanistan has risen sharply and. as far as i understand it now accounts for twice the amount of afghanistan's a social ravening so in a country where everybody. is accustomed to pay everybody for everything and i
guess the concept of public service is just a concept it's not realized and practiced how can he really ensure the transparency and integrity of the ballot well we are speaking about two different things very closely interconnected of course corruption is there no one can deny that as far as the election process are concerned again it is for the independent organs the authorities of the country notably for the independent electoral commission that is to be constituted now based for the first time on very tight legal norms it's just days ago that the parliament approved the respective law and the president signed the respective role and now the process of establish. independent electoral commission. let me challenge year a little bit on that you just mentioned the creation of that commission and even if
that commission is fully transparent and. enjoys high credibility among people how would you make sure that the decisions of those of that commission actually implemented on the ground because the organization of of any major ballot is not just about you know one body at the top it is up to. sounds of thousands of people on the ground who actually take care of the of the voting procedures and again those people according to all of his ations including your own labor live a life when they have to pay bribes on a daily basis when they have to pay bribes teachers doctors police officers job just let me just quote one more thing that since fancy international last year ranked afghanistan one hundred seventy four out of one hundred seventy six countries in the world so when you have the system that is recognized as one of the most corrupt in the world and when it is legitimized through
a popular vote one can ask whose inches that flowed freely serves first of all this is not. just now that the commission has been established as i said the commission has been working for quite a period of time they were actively engaged in a previous election they learned the lessons and of course there are some problems in the past but i can ensure. that disappoint of time for example the suction process of those deaths will be for a king on voter registration on during the polling day etc is very strict it's very tough and of course for example individuals didn't last time failed to deliver their duties according to the high standards will not be recruited the second question and it is extremely important impartiality. electoral body will be judged on the basis of the composition of the commission as a political organ before the commission was appointed by his excellence mr
president at this point of time to process is different there will be a nomination commission create they will come and selected to numerous candidates proposed by civil society proposed by by by the academic proposed by everyone. the number of candidates who want to sit on the final drum and then mr president. also worked nine commissions so the process is much more credible i'm rather confident that we would have. a good quality system in place to be able to ensure their work to all workers will be done large of good quality and that the leadership of the commission will be by and large of quality to be able to deliver . biological quality election now we discussed the system of which you seem to be very optimistic let's talk about people and groups who may take part in those elections and president publicly stated that he wants the taliban to take part in
these din a democratic transition do you consider the taliban at this stage to be reparable representatives legitimate representatives of the afghani people. well the only legitimate representative stan is the government of afghanistan i would like to make the sport very clearly. but it's true that the movement the taliban movement has certain support in different parts of the country so from that perspective and this is. behind the appeal of mr president to do taliban movement to stop fighting and to transform itself into a political movement and to take part in the political process of the country and the death toll that we've already mentioned those at least more than three thousand civilians that have been killed in afghanistan so far the responsibility for the deaths of many of those victims and lies on the taliban and with the now aware of
them intentionally launching attacks in public places funerals weddings you just sad that you would welcome dire transition to a political process but it's hard to really digest for anyone that a group that up until now has been targeting its own civilians would be now taking part in the political in their legitimate political process and indeed if they garner any significant support that with legitimize what they did in the past that the people of ghana stanisic are sick of in charge of this war that is lost and for dk. they would like to have peace they would like to have normal lives for that they need stability for that they need good government and the only real legitimacy can come through the democratic sources of the election that's right so important to have the election to have them on time and basically to do everything to make the most transparent as credible as possible and with the broadest possible
participation in the election that says the united nations and your own mission and the country represents democratic values you try to promote democratic values doesn't mean that by. began. calling on the taliban to join the political process doesn't mean that all their previous tactics which in any other country would be inane terrorism and al forgotten doesn't that track record means something do they have to come accountable for you know the methods that they selected political matters that they selected up until now i think no one is writing a blank check to anyone and definitely come to believe is a principle that must be there and will be there for everyone and we are making very clear in our statements toward old into government forces but to do to everybody in the country that even war a certain groups in war is regulated by law by international law so no one is
trying to draw a thick line behind this but again it this is wanting accountability the second thing is. an appeal to everyone if you would like to influence the future of the country this is the time and the method is the only one so essentially what you are saying it's just that they are principles and common sense because it's in that a couple of years ago the position of both the united nations and some of the international players prominent in that and afghanistan are somewhat different no one is trying to find solutions the expense of principles the principles and that's why i said accountability is there. people who are committing crimes will eventually be punished for them those individuals that are responsible for things. so the principles really mander and the united nations is there to uphold them for numbers here is the united nations listed both al qaeda and the taliban as
terrorist organizations but just a few months before your. mandate began. the taliban as far as i understand it was taken off that list to encourage the. afghan reconciliation process why do you think it took so long. make that move because i think it was advocated by your predecessor for quite some time let's put it like this it's. not . precisely the situation the tourists one sanctions list is the list of. representatives of the taliban movement and there are certain provisions. for those that. sincerely would like to be a part of a political process is a search for peace and national reconciliation and there isn't a so-called outside of listed list of those that are willing and are willing to day activities in a gonna stand are part of the international terrorist networks and that's
a separate list and again no one dropped the fight against terrorism doesn't matter who is pro promoting this but as far as i understand the approach to. the taliban are somewhat different now and i think some analysts. at least in moscow i must go by the way still sees the taliban as terrorists grow they would argue that these are somewhat softer approach towards the taliban on the part of the united nations essentially follows a u. turn in the american policy towards the taliban and we know that the united states after years of waging war against the taliban is now considering the taliban as its negotiating partner how would you respond to that criticism that the un line is so was at influenced by the american policies first of all those russian normalises you are referring to they should ask this question to permanent notable permanent
members of the security council because of course the security council to decided that it's high time to create two lists have it slightly different shimon slightly different expectations of this secondly. if you are asking what is our position it is indeed if we want to have political solution we must create the conditions for reaching such a political solution and it means. conditions that would enable those on the side of the taleban to to do this to be a part of political solution to become a part of the political solution we'll continue this conversation right after a short break.
was no way. clearly they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. and sold to the u.s. or turned over to the u.s. for. the soul that could be buried alive. was saved with great over. and they wanted to turn me into a terrorist so it was to be one of me to admit that i was a member of al qaeda or taliban or that i fought with them. about time i didn't even know what al qaeda is nevertheless there are people. rave enough to start a fight. something's going to be done that's going to be done by me and it's been a short amount of time to do it but it's going to impact me i'd be prosecuted but it's going to impact. the wife my daughter. the one time
welcome back to worlds apart and we are discussing the dangers and the promises of democratic transition in afghanistan the u.n. special envoy to the country mr. just before we went to the break i mentioned. the american policy towards the taliban have somewhat changed and the united states is now openly holding talks with the taliban through the so-called terra tract and i know this question has been addressed to you before but still. you know that the american legacy in afghanistan is very controversial and many people resent them merican presence on the ground why would the united nations. the initiative the peace initiative to the americans at this very crucial point of time well first of all i have to say that all that is happening in search of peace and national reconciliation is. in. and through the process
of consultation so we are not out of the loop. but it's also quick to say that the united states. is a particularly crucial part. in all what is happening in afghanistan. because of dieter's it took on the not to states that the international community notably u.s. and i served. started doing ajman to military engagement in afghanistan and it is now only. clear and very dominant engagement of the united states that we can have certain solutions but why do you think after some a year is a waging again of waging a war against the taliban and the taliban was proclaimed alamy of the united states when the american invasion into afghanistan began so after all those years of trying to root out the influence of taliban in afghanistan why do you think the
americans are changing tactics well i will leave assessments of different phases of disengagement. to military and political historians for me the most important thing is. that. the international community together with afghanistan came to the conclusion that there is no military solution to the situation the duma solution is political one and therefore. the political trick must be predominant why deal that political track see the americans because some would argue that the united states is primarily responsible for creating all that mass in afghanistan surely the country had many decades of instability partially because of the soviet invasion and the american influence that there was aimed at countering the soviet invasion but if we look at the last decades if it is primarily the americans who are responsible for for. making afghanistan into what it is now and
trusting them with finding a solution doesn't seem like a pretty good option of bastes you have servants i would like to be cool but once again it is the essence of to do a process. in a very simplistic way is true two pronged approach one in our discussions between the united states and the taliban the second the trip to rome together with this. discussions into the disk. since the taliban movement and the parties are presenting the constitutional order over going to stop the current government. plus political forces that are there. that should be a part of the solution as well. so this is. the picture that. some analysts that you are referring to are trying to present
that this is a u.s. led exercise this is not the construction is an afghan that exercise with one component of direct u.s. taleban discussion on the issues that they do have in common for example prisoners in a one time a more us prison. captured by the taliban that you just made a reference to. the military presence of foreign troops in the country and that it is going to answer that it just happens that the end of the military presence will coincide with the political transition i. heard a lot of western officials while to me that double move but if you look at it from the other side you can also see it as a double whammy and an extremely unfair just so it's always they have the money people because i don't want to have not only the security arrangement changes in any significant way and there are still whole lot of concerns about the ability of the army and the police to operate but also the political transition that i gather
you expressed earlier. it's somewhat grave concerns about because we don't know how it's going to. turn out is it fair to subject the i've got a people to such a drastic change when the bather to space out those two major moves and make it easier on the country and on the people it's true that. if you have some mountainous predictability. it's creating a lot of problems and a lot of questions. and. indeed it is not these a situation at the same time the decisions are taken. and to speculate what would be better i'm not a disappoint of time it's simply a futile exercise. both to the people of afghanistan they know the disses what's going to happen the international community knows this all of us you know that so
our task is to make it happen but let's be fair it's the international community the so-called international community that was a death forefront of many of the of the negative changes that were brought into afghanistan over the previous decades and now you say that ok the decisions are ad made and they have to leave with whatever is left by that isn't it. unfair because people weren't asked the right consulted about the invasion of their own country and now it doesn't look like they're being consulted about you know the nice set of conditions that are being imposed on them while coming back to the basics. of the people's reaction to what happened and to the engagement of the international community united states nato. i believe it's the best proof is that within weeks the old regime of the taliban collapsed that's the best response that you can have as
a proof of what was stated today of the people. they welcome to say they welcome the change very much now they would like and they do will come to change the end of the military presence of the international community so again this is very well in line what is the thinking of the people while they are concerned they days see a lot of unpredictability is they're not sure how the things will work they're not sure whether the international community will be with them one of the messages both from the united nations. and from the international community is indeed there is not not indeed no cliff dnd of two thousand and fourteen but the assistance will continue the engagement of key partners of the international community key countries is another proof of their commitment they are pledging concrete amounts of money and that will be provided. development assistance in the years after two
thousand and fourteen yes no question it's a risky exercise it's a major challenge and as many things are changing in the same time people are concerned people are war it people are unsure but it is same time this is very well what is their wish the end of this military exercise and the very final question you just mentioned that they supported the continuing support of the international teams there but it looks like your own mission in afghanistan. has just been recently downsized and you had to close a lot of your regional offices if i'm not mistaken so again given everything that you said about how important the time is and in the history of afghanistan and how uncertain is the future. it does look like everybody is living afghanistan ride on the eve of that crucial transition and i don't want to mention
any matter forests of a sinking ship and so on but you know those metaphors immediately come to mind well the united nations has been a constant for decades. the un was there before the taleban toaster i don't know how many tickets for five to kate's. well not in forty six so i did a bit a lot of load of activities of different kind including support for afghan refugees during different phases of of the history of afghanistan in the countries it broke notably in the neighboring countries and the united nations will stay there this is the intention and this is again the vision of the people of the government of ghana stone. we are not picking it's true that we are refocusing we cannot simply pretend that nothing is changing in the country we were spread all around the country while indeed the international presence was shown kind there are many different operations going on basically to be able to deliver our mandate now with this phase
that it's over we are refocusing ourselves we do not need so many persons is on the ground although we will maintain a considerable network of offices at least gets to play and we hope for a much that if you have support for this but our message is we are not leaving we are staying oh i hope your optimism could translate not only it's the afghani people but also its people who will visit afghanistan i was there just a year ago and it's still. very very dangerous times where you have to think twice about whether you want to go out even to have a dinner you know. all these great ideas about democracy and the political transition do seem to be a habit of wishful thinking abt this point of time. obviously everybody you know what shows the best for the afghan people i'm fortunate that this is all they have time for but please join us again full place same time here while.
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