tv [untitled] December 25, 2013 9:30pm-10:01pm EST
all the high profile cases that were part of the on the city and again as i mentioned holocaust case is a bit different because it was totally up to put into whether to release him or not it was his prerogative as president that he could have chosen not to exercise it so if amnesty was going on anyway if twenty thousand people were going to be released including some of those very famous prisoners that you just mentioned that's what have created this public splash anyway in the political goal that you're alluding to would have been achieved anyway so why what of koskie well first of all most vocal who might be kidding because if you look into the amnesty it seems to be the call soviet toil traditional kind of an amnesty. to vulnerable groups of prisoners pregnant women elderly people minors women with small children and so on and so forth and one of the last moment there is a month added on to include into the amnesty
a specific list such crimes as hooliganism and moss and i would like to stay on for just one more question his imprisonment imprisonment had a symbolic value it was always presented as a sort of reflection of how bad the human rights to shine in russia supposedly was i wonder if you attach the same symbolism to his release does it mean that let's say political climate in the country may be changing simply because he is being set free while human rights watch is an organisation nullus the case of course symbolizes everything that's wrong with human rights in russia in the uk quite to the office it. it's a very last rites of case and there are many other cases that we documented so really and that clearly demonstrate that the red green human rights abuses including political money pollution of justice. that are happening in the russian
federation well given that so many private profile people have been involved in political activity have been released early do you think that signifies any change in the way the kremlin operates or indeed the political climate in the country while it's like the revolving door of russian political just is already trumped up charges where you have some high profile political prisoners being released in one single week just before christmas just before the holiday he says develop should be ready to celebrate but done at the same time although people still remain in jail on three charges if we could stay on the subject of what our cost in sochi olympic because you you mentioned that you believe that this was part of the political campaign and manipulation and it's interesting how the self was asked about it during the press conference and i want
to play this question by b.b.c. for you are you encouraging people. really fix it you stay away so essentially the. man who was released from prison thirty six hours ago after spending their years the first one of the first questions he is being asked is whether sochi olympics should be boycotted or not and i think that's in itself a rather peculiar question but my question to you is whether you think that's what human rights campaign in russia has come to that it's not about human rights it is not about taking a stab at the government or better or putting personally well misspoke or first and foremost you are actually the one who is such a political manipulation project that i didn't start a public relations project and i know i relations are. very close i'm going to say approach but in the. i'm not sure whether you need
a boat or paulus matar for human rights watch now paul to call for a boy quote of sports cultural events so all the musicians go through bid another called. your buddies ation is very. after if in the using the image of sochi olympics and i want to quote you something that's your call except rachel dunbar of the deputy director for europe and central asia for human rights watch just published an opinion piece on your website calling on readers to quote brace yourself for what could come after international spotlight leave sochi and i wonder what are you bracing yourself or do you think that our koskinen pussy riot members will be rounded up again people will be able lynched on the streets mall how their close circle law says that he is not going to go back to russia because he does nor knew what hugh would remain a dream own if he is on russian soil this and i was. as he will have to live up
to russia and unless he gets very small that security. this is not what he said he said that as of now he doesn't have guarantees of him being able to leave russia for our foreign countries for example for germany and he needs to visit that country for example because of his mother that he isn't afraid of traveling to russia because he's afraid that does anyone actually if you are listening you know you are speaking for him that he never said that he said that indeed there are some legal issues with his skis that have not been subtlety have both he has never heard of this but i'm going to share that while holder of course he is in germany aware of his not going to go to jail now goes without saying i'm also not a free order to women from the pool and bar i don't think that they're going to be sent back to jail as soon as the olympics are so what i what i see all of the rage of is that it. looks in the other dollar up. from russia if the
spoke law is no longer on russia then the unprecedented crowd of civil society has been witnessing is going to intensify that's exactly what the afraid of because nobody can actually see even more specific though what exactly do you mean i assume you mean the law that came into force about them well you know if. i'm not only valid but i would agree that the law is indeed in the war of the untalented this piece of legislation which is why did we call entropy to russia's international obligations and freedom of association this non-governmental organisations get boring funding advocacy to register for indonesia such legislation exists in many other countries such as for example the united states and britain there is a similar law as well we're going to have you rudd actually did yeah i actually did and organizations that do receive foreign funding have to register with the state
very well using that receive calling and act on behalf of one which is over four in principle and that's a very different story here in russia if an advocacy group receives even a penny even a kopek of foreign funding even though it's completely independent from what's dog days it's just a register so also why are they so love what is it doing there barriers as well as i did being a native speaker of russian and then resident of russia in this language in this cultural context agent means for instance i literally didn't hear i think the connotations are the same as in english for an agent in english doesn't sound pretty as well but if people use these terms quite often russian it's a phone vaguely in russian it means. their lawyers months the civically to demonize indep. back to this what i would like to ask you something different. this year
justice ministry has decided to look how and yours are complying with this law they initiated if i'm not mistaken i think around fourteen cases of legal proceedings against various angelos and in one out of fourteen cases those laws actually won legal proceedings in court against the state and this is in a country that according to human rights watch has no independent judiciary where the state prosecutors do just sad and yours how would that be possible well we want to ruin you have some dough but the problem was that first the wall the prosecutor's office actually launched this massive campaign of the units of aggressive inspections and all in one fell then organisations which got across the country and in some cases those inspections were just completely over the top where activists were all asked for their correspondence one of the prosecutors wanted
access to their computers and so on and so forth but then dozens of groups received warnings i direct orders to religion not one to courts and one the proceedings before it in a sense that's one of the things that sort of makes me rary because they're waiting for the foreign agents lawyers that the law was adopted and then the minister of justice himself so he was unhappy with the law he did not know how the minister would find it possible to implement it because there were almost ten of us several months nothing was happening then in two thousand thirteen in february president putin has a meeting with the federal security service and the meeting suddenly says mbali this law non-governmental organisations how come i'm not seen any implementation and as soon as he says that. the inspection competing is being launched an older lady who from my direct question that i was. which of course we're seeing. so this
is happening and organizations are taken to court and they start losing their cases and the picture is really very grim in the. present good point so in the face of very strong international criticism. they are going to reconsider will possibly among the law and once he sells it some organisations winning the i.p.l. was and that's what you are referring to you see the shadow of mr putin and the single case in russia but this notion that we have to take a very short break now one day come back their russian government is often accused if using the law selectively against its critics but why did they break the law so easily that's coming up in a few moments on worlds apart. these
if you. got no opportunity. to start to construct your current. if you don't want to be a bit give don't want to be gangsters in a lot of. drug dealers they don't meet that well with the attorneys but he can't be we can't see. just needs a service that was right out of the hood. well i said. i don't want to die i just really do not want to die young young.
welcome back to all the parts where discussing the state a few months writes in russia of the time election not russia program director at human rights watch. just before the break we were talking about putting being implicated in pretty much everything in russia and that not everything has the high profile cases and told that smith. well i think if you if you look around the the level of paternalism is very high in this country and it seems that whether he likes it or not he is getting dragged on into. each and every case and i wonder whether it is sometimes the human rights campaigners that contribute to these very trying because when we have. controversy with greenpeace protesters they had of greenpeace international was calling on putin to intervene now or we are discussing the horror cost the case of your again painting that on to putin in his personal and this. the coosa arrive all the questions about you know whether those
goals should be behind bars where again addressed to put in aren't you people like you or at least putting putin sorry for these play of words onto the pedestal he's just the president wired to treat him as this super being well that's a very unfortunate situation most boys call but the problem start at a certain poor and the only way we can resolve a problem is to address putin and see what actually happens because the judicial system does not blame him for on trying living and this is the system that mr putin actually engineer which clause this past wick amidst all the rejoicing of odorless of political prisoners humor looked like santa claus sitting under the j. gansett mom owns christmas tree in the kremlin handing out gifts of my mother's cost. he also. told us exactly how it looked like and she knew one thing that i
actually wanted to raise talking about political trust has just several issues to heart of course finally became a free man and activist in a top russian thousand and two upset by the name of gave the call was sentenced to three years of imprisonment in a clearly political case so it is the rewarding the world russian justice harder. if it comes in grounded in drug oh well that's an interesting point that you raise because of his news conference in berlin. he was asked whether he feels any bitterness about spending saw much time behind bars and. i would like to play what what he said. to.
sure tot mom include those animals who could open a business and store. there's numerous rescue me you couldn't. conditional machine you mean you. shoot him now i think he's being a bit vague here you can interpret that in many different ways but what i think he's saying is that he believes that selective justice was applied to him but he also recognizes that he did break the law and i think that applies to many of the people that you call political prisoners. activists greenpeace activists some of the defendants in the case and i wonder if you believe that the political nature of their actions justifies them breaking the law well we're talking about the left of prosecution and disproportionate prosecution and that's been missed important thing here in the case of mr hodder well yes he says i've been playing rugby games but
then at the same time we all knew that everyone who became rich as a result of russia's privatisation was breaking certain rules because the rules were very sort of lose and fast virtually nonexistent of the chawton so if their call to get was sent to jail then i guess everyone else should be in the same jail with him even though to say that russian justice is not selected you mentioned that especially back in two thousand and three the rules of the game were not very clearly defined and what what our cost was locked up for you know was probably being done by many are there all the guards but now the state made it absolutely clear that it's not going to tolerate breaking the law neither in respect of greenpeace activists nor in with regards to protesters attacking the police or do you think that people who defend human rights in russia protesters activists do
they have to change their actions now to make sure that they simply protect themselves legally from the prosecution by the speedball on the one nationally. war on the other hand the laws themselves should be actually in line with relevant international standards the first thing that poor did when he returned to the kremlin was to run through the parliament a raft of laws which really detrimental to russian civil society and i'm talking in particular about being new restrictions on demonstrations the new restrictions on freedom of information including specifically freedom of information online and the restriction on a rigid and it's very difficult for civil society to operate i wonder if you're really following the social trends that we had our scene in russia because for many years the number of volunteers in russia has been on the increase and in fact the charity's eight foundation just reported that last year russia made it to the
global top ten by the number of people volunteering twenty five thousand people volunteering their time for the olympics what is that if not a sign of a strengthening civil society because in a country like russia where the sort of the fatigue of any collective action is very strong after communism years you know that when people are actually taking charge of their life when they are participating in gauging in a civil society is just under volunteer movement is great and i just wonderful to see lou level to learn trip initiatives flowing in. if you see what's wrong problematic here is that the government is basically trying to split the civil society into the good civil society the barred civil society and the good one is the one which is doing things possibly helping people without criticizing the government the bollard one is the one who is trying to bring about policy
changes and actually radley de this problem. actually trying to break the law and i think we can see here a transition to the case of two men. as of that band were just released on on the amnesty and dancing in the altar wasn't the most controversial action there were also famous for doing some stunts that involved nudity and even something that looked like fornication in public i wonder i would like to ask you a personal question because you have a long record of defending human rights in russia do you think there is any limit to self-expression of political activist well rid of the expression which is not limitless it can be chilly restricted the restrictions. when you need saying the women from pussy of the group they had the right thing would realize see the rusted on trawick on disproportionate charges
because they buy new means perpetrated after clinton is with a hate monty against russian witch who talks. it just didn't know what happened it's something they did no one. really understands and you'll see awful again is moved to they did but really it was a little different so cool and want to be to kids it was really not fair judgment at all and he said it time and again and even did rich a straw it administered to me and sentenced to a. human rights watch would not intervene because it wasn't going to clean. the court system in russia and we washed all of that particular kids very closely and yes it's a clear example of political manipulation of justice and the ruling was
unfair. human rights watch operates in many countries and if you look around the world this issue of ethnic and especially of religious hatred is extremely prominent these days it's a major source of human rights violations in the middle east it's a major driver for wars now in syria in libya in afghanistan in iraq so i wonder if you believe that in this particular case the right to a fan let's say villages sensitivities is more impart important than the right not to be offended i think i said it but i don't mind repeating it again. put. her actually trolling to disproportionately is because they did not want perpetrate an act of paula goodness that women want to play should only learn to sign by their actions and in fact during their own pretrial hearing they actually apologized to believers if those believers feelings were a found it so if they apologize that the probably they recognize that that actions
were viewed as a phone call in russian orthodox that's not like i loved what the. signal and central mosque not at all i became tuned to the pussy riot case only one of the use women were actually taken into custody prior to that one they just. there whatever you want to call it which is second performance which is second political stunt as a russian orthodox i was like. it probably wasn't a good idea to do this in the church began i'm russian orthodox but they should not have gone to jail for that was the only thing i'm trying to say earlier imagine some of the positive developments a rise of volunteering people being more engaged people taking to the streets i don't know if you would agree but i think some of the political discourse in russia has become more diverse compared to let's say five or six years ago why something
like that is not noticed by an international organization like yourself that is so devoted to the promotion of human rights and building the civil society but it is actually a chance to both three weeks ago here in this room i spoke to a quality of yours from russia to india knew about this situation with people with disabilities in russia. first of all goes to one has to recognize the very nautical progress on the past two years especially over the past with russia's ratifying the convention on disability and even though there is still very serious problem if progress is going to play in place even more so you are really excited elitists and parked that russia is hosting the olympic games in addition to the olympic games in salt because last time russia hosted the olympics as you may remember in nineteen eighty and the soviet union refused to hose the panels and.
there are new does evil people in this country so yes a lot has changed in the in saying that russia is this is the soviet. that's really good to hear because i think some of your have alliance wouldn't suggest that because you use allusions to soviet union quite a lot but given your misgivings about the human rights situation in russia i wonder if you could have made that russia played a positive role in the snowden affair because if it wasn't for russia he would. hooley have been lock locked out long ago and probably for a much longer duration than. well once now did the second. major statement saying that all the country that he had trusted with his requests. into his clear. objective decisions and this is apparently what russia has done and that's newton and temporary refuge in this country as they say until i'm
it's rather peculiar while given refuge chill while new in the whistleblower laws. one who is drawing to. an escape from the year also saw its is being apparently a soup of it russia is at the same chawed putin says much russia on its own whistleblower there is this harassment a whistleblower is going on in the country including the whistleblower it's insulted there is a huge crush on environmentalist groups and only independent media that are trying to cover all the developments relevant to the olympics construction and they're being critical well i think what that shows is that human rights issues probe probably a major problem not just in russia but in many countries around the world and i guess that means that human rights watch has will have a lot of adopted in the future unfortunately we have to leave it here because we
are out of time i appreciate your time and this spirited discussion and if you like the show please join us again same place same time here in the wilds of power. why is the price of gold so high. demand global demand do you think gold is money. the value of the only plays we have to live of the water that we need to survive it's not compared to bill i mean gold we're not going to eat gold we're not going to bait with gold. we're not going to drink up what clearly what amal is and is in a desperate economic situation absolutely right what we're wrong to do is say there
for any kind of economic development from the outside is going to be a benefit their only purpose is to extract as much money as possible to feed into the global financial system. with we're a part of the geo political economic system that's extremely or splintered. first of all is a question with a mining should even be carried out altogether can it be done in a way which doesn't destroy people's lives resources environment well you know those are pretty serious questions mining is not a what a moment problem it's happening in asia in africa and south america in central america in mexico and it's even happening in canada and the united states.
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news to salute. the child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all edward snowden is a christmas speech a warning that too much spying could damage the way the racial things that still time for the people. for the struggle stake there must be near certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured while the white house praises the drone strikes as a pinpoint a curious antiterrorist weapon also a mix and they still going number of civilian casualties the unmanned tocs have reams. on and on and it's hot as it leaves people there wondering whether the end justifies the means. i just couldn't sleep at night so i could think of things.