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tv   Worlds Apart With Oksana Boyko  RT  January 9, 2014 7:29am-8:01am EST

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streets again very quickly and very effectively took us three days instead of eighteen days the second time so i'm still proud but i remember that one of the main slogans that you could hear on tasker square background was brad freedom and human dignity and if you take those as as a yardstick of of edge. success or progress and the picture is not really here bribe because your economy is much worse than it used to be more people have been arrested or killed since the ouster of mubarak than prior to that and when it comes to human rides and human dignity the progress is very limited to say the least so isn't egypt pretty much back to where it was before the arab spring only much worse i think what's happening now in egypt is a retaliation due to the actions that were taken by people in power and their supporters to humiliate human dignity and basically want to
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break we've seen supporters of morsi shooting at people who have had certainly on the street trying to object to the majority of the egyptian people and i think eventually when you do that if you want to keep your dignity you have to retaliate the question is of course how do you retaliate because back then you were inspired by democratic ideals you wanted to bring democracy to your country and at this point egypt is not a democracy it's still ruled by a military a regime that is incorrect i disagree with that it is ruled by oddly months who is the head of the constitutional court this is our interim president and whatever we are experiencing today is much much what you call it more promising than what we experienced during the interim period of. he was in power after.
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two thousand and eleven revolution and there were twelve thousand civilians who were brought to military courts and today i don't think the situation is similar at all actually it seems like it's going to to unfold. very proper civil government through a civil elective process but how long do you think we have to wait to see those hopes democratic hopes to be a realize because none of the leaders that you mansion so far has been elected by by the majority of the people unlike mohamed morsi whom you may disagree with politically but at least he had the legitimacy of the ballot behind his back no no he did not have the legitimacy to do most of what he's done we had an interim constitution that morsi was elected to serve and the first thing that he's done he
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actually this respected the law and the constitution so what do you supposed to do we don't vote in a president to come and take over your house for example you you has a very specific tasks to do and through these elections particular elections he had very limited powers so he could not in any way. issue constitutional decree mr mccabe isn't that altimetry a question about the limits of democracy because on one hand what you are arguing for is that no power should be able to use and abuse democratic institutions for its benefit but on the other hand how can you argue in a day in a democratic society that you should get rid of that power in a non democratic way because the way that morsi government was disposed of is a non democratic way this no it was very democratic way revolutions revolutions are
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of them a graphic choice i mean the people who went to the street there were thirty million people on the street that's more than whoever elected mohamed morsi and you don't elect a president democratically to come and dismantle democracy you know so i think it's a sign that the egyptian people. becoming a lot more politically aware of their choices and their implications but i mean in all honesty you can't really assess assess the number of people who are in favor or against it you know that the mohamed morsi also has a lot of supporters and now he's part of his ideology is banned by constitutional court which is hardly a democratic development this is not something that would happen in the traditionally democratic country in democratic countries these those type of things are decided at the ballot boxes not on the streets no on these but of boxes are to a certain number of tasks and responsibilities with or with these and you do not
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you don't know for example you do not come and open a job for a man that comes to clean the office and you come to morrow morning find him made himself the general manager and if you don't like it because you that's not democracy ok mr let me play something for our viewers that here have to say all the way back in two thousand and eleven on top of square because i think this is a very interesting issue about the nature of revolution is most everybody just never. know it. is people disappearing. and then the word that it is as people's revolution and that always works and i think this is a very romantic view of history because if you look objectively at the history of revolutions the russian revolutions the french revolutions most of them were very bloody and most of them lot to you even harsher regimes that preceded them and i
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wonder if you if you see any any danger in egypt getting into that habit of you know. before people's revolution i said it's no i said it's not the religious revolution. i said it's not a political party revolution it's a people's revolution and what morsi did he turned it into a religious revolution and a political party revolution and that's why he hit the wall but mr mccabe if bend the history of friendship to or pretty much any other country when you try to suppress any particular our delegate regardless of its content it becomes more radicalized on the ground so if you think that getting rid of mohamed morsy in in this way is acceptable why would one peace supporters try to do a similar thing i mean they can turn to the streets next year they turn up they
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have the right to come and they think they have the right to resort to violence have no rights you. know no and resorted to violence and no one i mean look in a proper state those who have the right to hold arms are two entities it's the ministry of interior and the ministry of defense and when you protect when you defend your political movement or political ideology through holding guns and pointing them at our army officers and soldiers and policemen then you know you are no longer have a political case you have a criminal case isn't that what was happening in in egypt in two thousand and eleven when you were protesting on to maryland where no no you are the people that also have a police officer is an arab man are you never so throwing stones is not shooting and killing officers and it's not making bombs to explode in their faces it is
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not stopping army people going home from their service taking them out of the bus and shooting them at point blank in the back of their head exit. these were never the behavior of the egyptian revolution and never the behavior even of. of the regime of. they never killed people in cold blood i mean maybe they used excessive force but i think that story of the officers and the soldiers that were stopped in the bus and they were forced to leave the bus so that they can actually tie their arms and kill them with a shot at the back of their head i don't think there is any political ideology that deserves a voice that is presenting itself like that it's a criminal ideology that you just mentioned hosni mubarak and i know that your
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recent feature film winter of discontent was just nominated for an oscar in the best foreign language film category congratulations on that but in that film that film was very critical of hosni mubarak's regime and it showed it in a very unpleasant lied for it's a time of course we're still are told the revolution i wonder if the events in egypt fears that. gave you any second thoughts are you willing now to give hosni mubarak any benefit of the doubt i mean maybe he wasn't after all guided by his own hangar for power maybe he had not be in the interest of his country in mind when he was resisting that revolution the only reason why egypt experience such a shock and such a shaking ground after the revolution because hosni mubarak's time was hell for political participation he is the first responsible before anyone for what we
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are going through that's why an organization like the muslim brothers could actually fool the people who are simple an educated and have no political awareness through the words of god that they have been chosen by god and they have come to rescue them from their misery well i mean i'm not advocating for her. having him back for his regime but i wonder if it's really fair to hold him the only one responsible for that because obviously during a very long period of time he was supported by the people so isn't it ultimately the case that egypt used to have the leader that it deserved and now the station that we have an age of now is essentially what this society deserves i think you know. for example it's always it's always what happens after
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a ruler leaves that you discover when the ruler did for the country and and today it's exactly the same why. someone like the muslim brothers get into power because because because the environment was enabled for them who's responsible for enabling this environment i was new about it but they you never know what's going to happen in the future and it is just as possible that five years from now you will look back at the hosni mubarak's time and remember it as the golden era for ages but unfortunately we have to take a short break now when we come back just a decade ago and muslim fanatic with a bomb seem to be a whole of with cliche but nowadays it's an average growing occupation across the region has it become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts that's coming up in a few moments on a wall the part. at
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least sixteen percent of imports came from illegal fishing. the european union is ironically taking fish from some of the poorest nations on earth so this is a very serious and very urgent problem that needs immediate international action. on foot or territorial waters they fish they load the fish into the ships and leave . today illegal fishing just taking the bread out of our mouths. millions around the globe struggle with hunger each good. what if someone offers a lifetime food supply no charge. they can they're very strong
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against g.m.o. and we think that. the more they fight. the war. there is no. evidence that there is any problem with genetic engineering what you make a deal. for is free cheese always in a mouse trap i don't. agree. that it. is profit. for these golden rice. welcome back to worlds apart from discussing the revolutions and golfing the arab world with a prominent egyptian actor and activist of our kids mr vickie just before we went to break we were talking about a democratic revolution in egypt and in some other countries but i would argue that
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there is also a new kind of revolutions whipping across the middle east and africa and this is a jihadi revolution you know people who are very passionate about that vision of the world and who would still be for nothing to implement that vision do you think those two revolutions are compatible of course not i think one obstructing the other one is ruining the image of the other like for example in syria you have you have two revolutions you have that you have the revolution and you have the opposition revolution and it is sad to see that the opposition revolution is is being overwhelmed by that you have the one i would definitely like to discuss the syrian revolutions but before we go there i just would like to mention that you had a chance to you play a part of a religious fanatic all the way back in two thousand and five in the film called syriana and i would like to remind our viewers of that performance let's have
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a short clip. which amount of your small group of men and army are the ones who carry convictions unambitious i mean heavy and within this group but with him there is another smaller group who flee from the worldly life and as you know st louis to spread the true faith and you already are. now better than. this type of character was an individual villain he was also a very charismatic young man even though he became a suicide bomber but now it seems that this lifestyle this. type of ideology is appealing to an ever growing number of young people in in your region why do you think this ideology saw attractive i think because of the state of education they cannot mix state and you know. you can't you can't you know live for fifty
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dollars a month and and expect to have an ambition you know you you you either become a thief you either become corrupt or you for leave the wordly life and i just want to correct something in what you and you're following up on the what i said in this film he did not blow himself up and that's what's interesting he sent the two young boys to blow themselves up and that's what i found very interesting someone who is arguing such an argument why doesn't he send himself before they own people why doesn't he go himself to do with i've always thought that the people who charge the suicide bombers the people who prepare them are extremely twisted because why don't we question the fact that they don't go and do it themselves they have to send someone in their place and then the problem is of course that the number of
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volunteers who are ready to give up their life and to kill all their people for their cause is increasing now in that movie syriana it was referring be it the title was referring not to syria but to a larger middle eastern area and. according to the plot of the movie one of the main reasons for the growth of that ideology why was the practices of. the american oil companies and the u.s. foreign policy in general i wonder if you think that that is just fiction or does the united states bear responsibility for what is happening in the region particularly of big growth of this very radical ideology i think is partly their responsibility and in the film actually in hans's that and takes it to another further step there's a rule that alexander siddig was playing who was the moderate prince the open
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minded the one that will actually achieve some some economic reform proper and he was not going to sponsor these kind of ideologies so the united states in the film. a missile to kill the prince and bring another weaker prince in his in his shoes so that they can manipulate and they can guide through the. choices in the middle east and how they want the conflicts to to remain and that film was shot back to back in two thousand and five but the problem is of course you mention syria already and the convergence between the democratic moment and the jihadi movement is that the united states is still playing at a very active role and just a couple of days ago the news broke that they are indeed sopore they have a step up their support for certain militarized fractions within the syrian
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opposition but what i would like to ask you is rather especially seeing what we see in syria this real convergence and in ability to really tell apart those two revolutions the democratic movement and jihadi movement have you ever lied to you questioning about your own tactics because you know people i idealistic people like yourself started those revolutions but then we have. forces that have a totally opposed to any democratic ideology coming into the play and hijacking those revolutions aren't you are ultimately people like yourself onto you responsible for starting all of that and allowing these people to come in and use the fruits of that revolution i like the food the faggots allowing as if we've got the you know the power to allow in this allow we just help open doors we're not responsible to be a good little troll who will add on down in january two thousand and eleven it is
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all right because people are adults enough to make their own choices and this is what democracy is about and doesn't matter if you make the wrong choice first what matters is it becomes your choice and you learn from it but mr bright kid isn't the price to quiet though. don't you think that the prize especially where east of liberty and freedom and awareness is high yes it is it is i mean you just said before your revolution in russia you revolution in fronts all of these were very big price for the people of russia and for the people of. fronts so it is worth it i think you can actually pay the price and have a superior form of life yes it will cost yes it will be painful but so is giving birth to a lovely little charlie mr reich how can you be sure of that happy ending it seems
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to me that we are getting our usual business eyes if you can never eat mecca and never be sure that if you actually leave here to the proper outcome because if you look at the videos we get from syria these days you know people chaput chopping off had eating the in tast and this is far far worse then something that you play even that hollywood movie i mean that chastity is the reality is much stronger the reality is much stranger than fiction it's. well i can tell you that it has to the proper turn in egypt. people who do these kind of things were given a chance and people didn't like what they've done and they went out and they finished it i don't expect the same in syria and i expect anyone who is helping such people and such groups it will backfire in their face very soon before you know it so i advise the united states of america to stop supporting people who have ideologies that can crush humanity in the name of religion in the name of
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interest in the name of any political end humanity is the superior ideology coming back to what you said just a couple of minutes ago about opening the door so you can never control who actually antares dad dollars and the problem is of course in syria that you know even if you have the political will to stop it is there unfortunately he you cannot longer stop the civil war it is self-propelling and i'm happy for egypt that it hasn't happened it wasn't as violent there but how can you be really sure that it's not going to happen i think this is the only interest i think i was you know the people are not the ones to blame for this is the powers that again i would use the same word that enabled the environment for this to happen and in the case of syria right now it's the west and the united states that are responsible for
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arming. supposedly revolutionaries who should have only voices to voice and now the conflict has become ethnic i think the ultimate end that we are seeing today which is a she ate so in conflict is progress serving the interest of not a single. syrian but what i find extremely interesting is that you are ready to blame the powers here ready to put the blame on the united states on the hosni mubarak for everything there is happening in egypt and yet you are not ready to assume responsibility for lighting that match that allowed all these fires to spread because you believe that revolutions will always lead to a positive outcome and what i'm arguing is that it has never been proven the imagine the russian revolution you mentioned the french revolution they left those nations to decades of bloodshed and they kids of authoritarian regimes i guess my
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question is whether or not you think that revolution is probably not the right way to proceed in the first place maybe it's better to do it step by step in an evolutionary fashion well usually when you have a mass of people who are being ruled or being dictated by a bigger power you can't really hold responsible those who are being dictated i mean. we are the developing nations of the word the united states is the superpower russia is a superpower so if you are going to blame the ones that are being subjected to these superpowers what are you going to do to the superpowers themselves the ones who should know better the ones who have better educations the ones who have direct responsibility of intervention in the process of the political
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process of the region so if i think the united states and russia would probably pay their competition away from the middle east i think you would prove me see a better middle east we want the interest of the middle eastern people while it's hard to disagree with you on that point and let me shift the focus from the superpower to actually those nations that you just mentioned by. both syria and egypt are supposed to have presidential elections next year and i don't want to talk about personalities but just in general what kind of leader do you think will be able to bring reconciliation to both. egypt and syria what kind of qualities he or she has to possess and is the re conciliation possible at base stage at all given how five things have progress i think it is early to see who but i can i can see very vividly that the region needs
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someone who will rule by. a civil government not a religious government we can see what the religious government does we can see the kind of conflicts they create and we can see that you know religion is sacred and politics basically removes the sanctuary from from from religion so we don't want a religious government and when it comes to civil government i think you can see the poverty that the whole region is going through so i think we need someone that is a bit inclined to the left rather than the right and we need someone who is moderate someone who understands that there is nothing that can be done before you saw the educational problem and the economic problem and the health issues of these people
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this scenario that you just painted that really looks like a happy ending worthy of an oscar at the very least but we have to leave it here i really appreciate your time on the show and char viewers please join us again same place same time here on one of the part. if you nothing in the opportunity. to start to construct your own little term. want to be a bit give don't want to be gangstas you don't want to be dog delist they don't want to blow with all the time that a kid came to be we can see. you just means
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a hundred dollars and i hope i live in the hood and what they found liable to thirty round clip. but it felt like. i said. i don't want to die i just really do not want to die young young age.
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and. i. he survived war atrocities. to make
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a psychologist so she. has changed his life and the world around him. by giving. hope. and loves to so many children. nikolai the american worker on the tree.
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for eight captives of an extremist group in syria tell shocking details of their ordeal saying the militants fighting under the black flags of all claims are a manager and the most radical power in the region he had even while he asked forces meanwhile. the united states is still feeding the fire in syria america's middle east policies are raising eyebrows with washington's offer to help find the same militant group in iraq appearing to draw it together with us. also this hour a huge fire sale islands castles and historic cities go on the behind europe last conscious tromp governments invent new ways to me that bunches lots. american families are loved.


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