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tv   Interviews Culture Art Documentaries and Sports  RT  May 12, 2014 2:00pm-5:01pm EDT

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quote about come to our tease newsroom i'm i need to now i good to have you with us tonight eastern ukraine says loud and clear it doesn't want to live under the current kiev government but their voice is being silenced pussy riot visit an occupy wall street protests are being held in prison before sentencing we take a look at the russian punks never ending us tour plus while we're in new york we unveil a little get mo in the heart of the big apple your in the now. the people in eastern ukraine have had their say and want to determine their fate. the
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ukrainian people deserve the opportunity of the term and their own future we want to allow you to choose your own future to express the will of the people of ukraine well as long as you want what we want you to want citizens of two regions in the east decided that they don't want to live or rather suffer under the rule of the governing gang in kiev they organize referendums to break away from ukraine and ninety percent of the voters in each of them said yes to the breakup sites look like typical referendums lines outside polling stations voting slips ballot boxes people brought their passports and registered before placing a tick in a box ordinary people not terrorists or extremists as we are constantly told they are. the only difference is that the international community doesn't give a damn about what these people want the german and french leaders said it's
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illegitimate washington warned that it won't recognize the people's will and it didn't in foreign policy here a copycat of the us although this according to the very same political powers was under the letter of law. nothing but support praising the values and of course respect the people's right to freedom of expression and assembly professor of political science and history ronald suny joins me in the mouth to clear up a couple of moments that could cause confusion ronald ukrainian people should decide their own fate we're hearing as long as it's the fate we agree with is that the rule here. unfortunately not quite it would be good if we lived in a world where national self-determination was the general rule but we live in
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a world of greater and lesser powers we live in a world in which some states can dictate and other states are victims often or falling apart in the case of ukraine we have a state which is divided nearly entering civil war as some people would say already a failed state so we have a bad situation in which the great powers united states european union russia are playing a significant role in determining the future fate of this country i just want to listen to what officials in kiev are saying about the turnout of this referendum you know the turnout was zero. that seems odd because the b.b.c. and thanks to twenty four and so forth it reported that it was something like nearly eighty percent in there it's good least. well even if the referendum is legitimate it clearly showed what people in eastern ukraine want is it going to change
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anything in the way people there are being treated by kiev. well i think it's important that we sort of forget the word legitimate in it for a moment that is legitimate means accepted by people without force etc and so one side thinks it's legitimate the other side thinks it's illegitimate what you can say is it's a kind of opinion poll an important barometer of what the current state of opinion is if in fact as has been reported seventy eight percent in those internets we don't have the figures palooka luhansk voted and overwhelmingly something in the eighty ninety percent of people voted for some kind of autonomy some new relationship with their own government and with the state of russia that has to be taken seriously that is a view of the the view this serious passionate.
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acceptance by a new status by lots of people in that part of the world why do you think russia is not rushing to recognize this referendum. i think frankly what happened was these events somewhat like the events of a hundred years ago in one nine hundred fourteen i'm not saying we're heading toward world war but i'm saying that events get out of hand people make actions governments that fall and people have acted on their own in the streets terrible massacre that occurred as happened in odessa. presidents putin decided to push for the annexation of crimea and number available the vents happen which then generated other events and so they really it's really out of the control of any individual or indeed any particular state or the ukrainian people and i think blood human clinton decided a few days ago and his advisers that we've got to pull back that we've got to slow things down that you know all these people are acting in their own interests or
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with their own emotions and passions that this could lead to some there. dangerous situation civil war international war so why not postpone the referendum which of course the locals didn't want to do recognize that march twenty fifth elections which part of ukraine probably won't do and we pulled troops back from the frontier which putin did but even so these actions have not led to a kind of response on both sides that would allow for some kind of international negotiation a lot of critics might say that this is not something that was expected from russia to sort of take a step back perhaps you know because sadly this is been something i've been concerned around one tire career as a russian a star in and soviet public political scientists the west almost deliberately misunderstands russia we do our operate on the basis of very old and hoary units
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and people don't seem to think of russia as a rational state with its own geopolitical interests acting as it does now russia sometimes acts precipitously or foolishly and when it does so it only confirms in the western mind what they already suspect or do you know i mean course on the other side of the united states. say yemen or iraq or afghanistan or libya to confirm russia's view of the west so we're working on the basis of myths and and distortions rather than a sort of cool reasonable estimation of what are the interests here and they're pretty clear what russia seems to me once is a stable neutral ukraine in which we will not be part of the western bloc that won't be dragged somehow later in the day into nato but rather can function
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between the two words for me the way out of this is a kind of finland solution a state that has a perfectly decent society that operates right next to russia that manages to get along with both the west and and russia as well fessor of political science and history ronald suny thank you so much for being in the now my pleasure. and no doubt can have was not happy with the referendum that did nothing to bring its forces under thought and prevent bloodshed over the weekend track just before the vote east on the most intense attack from kiev today. this. was some of the footage that was shot there was an eastern ukraine in the city of
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mariupol on friday an artist freelance cameraman was caught in the crossfire as well fielders of i live was shot in the stomach and a bullet proof vest might have saved his life today he was transferred to moscow in critical condition joining me in the now is a pretty young she's a roughly producer which is archie's video agency and she was. at the time thanks for being with us alina tell us what happened when fielder was shot how did it happen. basically from what he told us he walked out of the right cards hotel them are you hopeful and he showed that he was press he saw a sniper i think to the left of us to the left and he so that he was pressed he showed that he had a first aid kid and he saw people crossing the street so he thought it was safe for him to cross the street as well he followed the people and he started walking across the street as well and that's when he was shot and he fell down from what he
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told you did it sound like he was saying basically that he was shot on purpose that it was a conscious act. from what he told us we're not exactly sure of the he doesn't know this but from what he said that he thinks it was the sniper. actually the one that he was filming himself but he's not sore he cannot he doesn't know tell us more about his condition. at the moment he's stable when we first got to. hospital he just got out of the operation at the time it was between life and death for him by. he got to the operation he was much better he was stable he hasn't had any critical. situations until now everything has been fine he's been feeling well and he's strong he's young and we're just hoping that he's getting better. it's clearly
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a dangerous place to be on the ground there what is it been like for you do you feel safe. well basically safety is first for us we're always wearing flak jackets and we're trying to take care of our colleagues as well but there must be a balance between our safety and the covers that we are trying to do here and sold the world what is actually happening so it's very important for us to do both the danger here is basically the. unpredictability of the region you never know what's going to happen one minute everything is quiet everything is fine and the next minute you hear gunfire and it starts getting closer so that's really the main problem here people don't know when something is going to happen so everybody's always alert and trying to you know just make sure that they're aware of the situation where they are. that's basically. a video journalist
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roughly archies video agency thanks so much for joining us in the now tonight. well coming up we take you through a little get mo in the heart of new york city stay in the now. rather than recognizing just how far this is goes and seeing the damage that's being done and changing course people just point fingers and say whatever one does it's so why can't we.
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are. ukraine on the brink and for many self-determination is the goal after the illegal western backed coup when care and the massacre in odessa ukrainians are opting to determine their own fate it would appear the ukraine we once knew is now gone forever. the. economic downturn the find out. the new york night and the right to life during the make believe everything.
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but the riot or the two women formerly known as pussy riot they don't want to be called that anymore well the girls made a secret highly p.r. trip to rikers island in new york to see sesame mcmillan and occupy protests are awaiting sentencing in prison but there's that the liquid and maria no one now were sentenced to two years in prison for their infamous punk prayer in a moscow church they served twenty one months and were released as part of an amnesty in late two thousand and thirteen well they seem to think their case is very similar to sesame mcmillan's who might serve seven years in jail. we also did time and went to prison for sticking up to our beliefs for not giving up we see a lot of parallels with how things. went well. did pussy riot get an obnoxious unfair sentence for their stunt yes but the prison system in russia is
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nothing like the us pussy riots case also got much more global publicized the that's us elise who i highly doubt will be traveling the world if she's released early. the truth is while most of the world was worried about the fate of pussy riot many were silent about this. ah. ok. so actually mcmillan faces seven years in prison for assaulting a police man a charge that her fellow protesters believe or just made up in fact the twenty five year old student claims she herself was the victim of police brutality and tried to prove it in court hears a necessity. the n.y.p.d.
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versus occupy wall street the battle shifts from the streets to the courts activists s. lee mcmillan alleges to have been sexually assaulted by an n.y.p.d. officer on the sixth month anniversary of occupy in two thousand and twelve you can read all the rest and then they will prosecute the woman only fast forward to twenty fourteen after two years awaiting a trial a manhattan jury finds mcmillan guilty of second degree assault on a police officer for what she and supporters say was a reflex in response to those unwanted grope the jury watched a greeny version of the incident the prosecution said the elbowing was intentional to prevent the officer from doing his job as he tried to walk the protester out of the altercation scene mcmillan right now is facing seven years in prison for something that is so minor that she will first of all that she did not do what they are accusing him of something that is so mind it doesn't even make any sense that is basically this this is what she's going to sentence for seven years and is insane mcmillan says she also suffered
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a seizure that night and claims to have received multiple cuts and bruises witnesses also say she did not receive due medical assistance she had got to the hospital and it was a hamper and when in new york city if you get roughed up by the cops you're resisting and they have to come up with something that you were doing wrong that happens all the time this is a popular opinion among occupiers if she were found not guilty she could probably sue and win millions of dollars from the the city of new york rather than do that they would they would rather put her in jail on trumped up charges it's very very frightening and it's very disgusting the activist is now being held without parole awaiting sentencing while occupiers return to the birthplace of the movement. park to protest the guilty verdict and what they call an unfair trial just about every objection the prosecution made was sustained every objection the defense made was overruled. the very occupier see many facts including the past record of the officer who sessile he claims grabbed her were not even considered in court the cop
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out. officer bobo has a record of police brutality the city has actually paid out lawsuits he's lost lawsuits for his police brutality that was never allowed to be entered the whole thing it was this is not a fair trial in any conceivable sense of the words paul supporters call for sessile these release and the prosecution of the n.y.p.d. the activist is now awaiting her sentence she faces up to seven years behind bars and will learn her destiny on may nineteenth whatever the sentence occupiers see the plan to keep fighting to them this case is one of many examples of the injustices of the system the ninety nine percent if not all of us across the country in the world know that we have to stand in solidarity with one another it's not about just sesame it's about justice for all of us and especially if you're going to r.t. new york. justice for all sounds nice but it's not the case for many americans incarcerated the u.s. has the highest prison population in the world thousands are serving life sentences for non violent crimes one out of every one hundred adults lives behind bars in the united states with some one in thirty one in some sort of correctional control
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united states with five percent of the world's population makes up twenty five percent of the world's prison population the majority of u.s. prisons include occupancy requirements mandating that local or state government keep those facilities between eighty and one hundred percent fault so the state must keep those beds full at all costs. but the thing is they're not just keeping those prisons full with u.s. citizens america is just fine with incarcerating other countries citizens won't talk about it will be close to the way that what you're about as president i have tried to close gitmo i continue to believe but we've got of course one possible yes where have i heard that before indefinite detention dire conditions and human rights activists protesting at his doorstep you might think i'm talking about one ton of mo no behind these gray walls in lower manhattan yes the very heart of new
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york city is the little get well the us holds terror suspects here including the lives of some of bin ladin accomplices it's called the metropolitan correctional center but there's a bunch of people being held at m.c.c. that have never been charged just detained indefinitely and have no connection to the outside world you know they're not allowed to talk to the press they might be one family member once every few months sometimes during the trial the lawyers that are defending the accused are not allowed to see the evidence the government of bringing against. this trend is becoming business as usual when it comes to america's judiciary system usual but illegal joining me in the now is home to our song he's the brother of an inmate who spent almost eight years behind bars without sentence home to thanks for joining us your brother has been transferred from one center to another from the u.k. to the u.s.
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and so on tell us a little bit about his story. darla was detained without trial or charge for over six and a half years in britain he's a british citizen he's never set foot in the united states and since the us has put an extradition request on him he was detained about troubles on the longest period in british history he's now been in solitary confinement in a death row prison in connecticut. since october two thousand and twelve. it's outrageous these things can happen especially bridges and he never actually set foot in the united states territory tell us more about the alice what extradition process why did britain give him up. britain bulldozed loads of laws. under when blair and bush were best friends and so there introduces a tradition law in two thousand and three meanin any british citizen or guess even if they've never been there or never left their bedroom can be extradited to the
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united states and the law is still the same despite many pro american conservatives even speaking against it and eighty eight percent of british m.p.'s speaking against it. and it's also abolished basic rights in britain saw the presumption of innocence before proven guilty and people in these horrifying nightmares you can imagine. for my family. accuse of being a social website from about one thousand nine hundred seventy two thousand and one talking about. well over a decade ago to say it's like disproportionate. dollars actually has asperger syndrome and assess self harm risks and it's absolutely horrible that he's put into prison system where fifty percent interest sides take place according to their own statistics which is in solitary confinement which dollars
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billion's into that for this what do you know about this detention center in connecticut is it much like the m.c.c. in manhattan. it's a supermax prison and everybody's in isolation and there's always disturbing reports of suicides attempts and some really extreme forms. on the prison cells look like a slaughterhouse given from a mutilate themselves so badly. does that you can be transferred to metropolitan correctional center in new york in late july. which is even worse present to extent that some of the attorneys like tell said that was like the one prison that he thought was worst and one time no we should also remember that one time know about what it grows out of which is the u.s. domestic system all these things like force feeding in prolong solitary confinement . for select structure when you sell to someone chokes there are practices that
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were modeled on the domestic system some of the conditions in places like california florence or even worse have thirty thousand prisoners gone hunger strike in california so if you haven't even touched their own relatives because you know we don't even know if my mom can hug her and son again it's it's a horrifying it's one of these human rights things that should be first on the agenda the united nations special wrapped into a torture is even said this type of thing should be abolished and it constitutes torture do you think that you'll ever see your brother again. i'm. hoping that the british and american governments will work together to bring him home however there's no guarantee of repatriation in the extradition arrangement so he could be in a horrible prison like a dx florence which even america won't allow the international or the united nations to visit so you wonder what they're hiding and you know. long term solitary
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confinement for longer than fifteen days which constitutes torture called the united nations special torture you know cause irreversible mental damage so i really worry you know what state he's going to be in after all the years in isolation. thank you so much for being in the now and sharing the story of your brother paul. thank you. well we've heard how eagerly the u.k. extradite its citizens to the u.s. but it turns out that it's just a drop in the ocean when it comes to britain's input into the u.s. incarceration system this is a british administered island in the indian ocean called diego garcia according to u.s. senate committee report it was used as a secret block site detention center by the cia americans decided to come clean but now the british government which covered up the story faces tough public questioning back at home. well thanks for being in the now with us tonight stay in
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touch online and remember it's now or never see you soon. dante williams a partner went to a waffle house to rob it he apparently didn't expect anyone there to have a concealed weapons permit but just in harrison did he waited for just the right moment drew his weapon and killed williams but williams is grieving family are now calling to change south carolina's concealed carry laws are upset that harrison was not charged obviously right or wrong good or bad the family of williams has the right to feel sorrow for their loss but if it wasn't their loved one who was the robber i think they might feel very differently this our bribery situation is the exact reason why concealed carry permits exist if you to be liberals about concealed carry they will always present some sort of fantasy situation where god
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wouldn't help you to prove that you don't need them what if like a guy sticks up behind you then you're going to be totally worthless man you know guns aren't a magic answer to every crime situation but often they come in handy and they sure did for justin harrison when he was looking down the barrel of a criminal's gun so what kind of america do you want to live in one where you're helpless and have to beg for your life on the floor of a restaurant or in america where if you rob waffle house you're going to pay for it i think the choice is pretty obvious fascist my opinion. we think of the way we think. for all sand beaches. hoping to gently swaying in the ocean breeze. right. why he has a deep dark little secret a secret the u.s. government would like you know. go away.
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well i didn't really. get all wilderness. is. every. welcome to serve the and go on sophie shevardnadze at a time when people can be watched tracks and long every minute of the day it's no surprise to market where international surveillance is thriving is a government doing more than just uncovering our secrets well our guest today is committed to exposing the world of snooping we're joined by airing came from privacy international. today people being
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watched more than at any other time in human history. the market for surveillance tech is offering ever more spying methods to keep government snooping hold you level does technology have the power to control where you go and find its way not only into your cell phone but into your mind and what happens when the power forwards into the wrong hands. they were here were there a king had of research and privacy international lawyer because really great to have you with us on our show so i'm going to start with the recent events to opposition protesters in kiev received texts telling them to leave certain area now the so companies deny any involvement jim burnett via how did that happen. as i understand it the room was immediately afterwards something called an easy catch it was used this is a fake mobile phone base station. can use to identify people in the local area
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but then also send text messages. however i've read reports since that. secret court order is showing that the telecommunications companies themselves were actually involved are there any other ways to control protests using technology. a whole range the question i suppose is what the objective of the authorities may be to do if it's to find out who the people are all as i mentioned technology is a very effective tool finding out the unique identifiers on someone's sim card and the mobile phone to find out who's there if you imagined twenty years ago you might have needed a police officer to stop and arrest someone or to stop and search them and ask for id to get a full list of everyone who's there now a very affordable piece of equipment can be deployed you can set the radius of how
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far. you want to kind of scoop up and then you can get a list of every single mobile phone there which can be tied back to the individual so it's an exceptionally powerful tool on masking anonymous protest so let's say i'm a protester what should i do not to be tracked down just turn the phone off or take out the battery what's there to do you. well the advice on this is very difficult many protest things can get violent on both sides. there are numerous ways in which accidents can occur at which point you do want the ability to communicate however if you're concerned that your attendance is. likely to cause you distress or harm at a later point you do not want to be taking your mobile phone into a protest. there's no strong advice it needs to be a decision that individuals make on a kind of on the basis of of full information and that's one of the reasons why we
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push for more transparency around surveillance technologies that are used and the laws in which regulate how and when they can be used as privacy international's perspective. should never be used. it seems outrageous to us that people protesting for their rights in the most part. and so quickly and so easily be added to a database we think about right for a piece that just how easy is it to gain access to these technologies like the ones like the hatch for example. regressively there very very easy to us. there are surveillance trade shows around the world that allow you to go in and buy that technology many companies only sell to law enforcement. but we also know that criminal gangs can also gain access to it so it isn't necessarily just the police you need to be concerned about but a corporate or criminal act as well the technology itself is also very affordable
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we know of some companies that sell this technology for two hundred fifty pounds although they can go up to twenty thousand. again this is why we need more discussion. when these technologies can be used not only by police forces but also to ensure that those police forces are protecting people against corporate taxes or criminal act is using that exact same technology at the moment the police and others don't like talking about it but as a result everyone's privacy and everyone's security is being left disregarded but in your work have you covered incidents where certain technology would be used to undermine an existing government for example and where it's at to undermine in the government and existing government yes. i mean they can be. i haven't followed it particularly closely but i'm aware that last week in ireland
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a number of police offices phone calls intercepted. and that was the use of it. we still don't know who the act is that deployed it that you know the circumstances a few weeks before i believe it was the european and american. diplomats in relation to ukraine who were having a very full and frank conversation that was also intercepted you can ever pin this stuff down for certain but if you catch is the kind of thing that could be used. likewise we know that the american. n.s.a. . run a similar operation using again a technology similar to the catch although not necessarily the same one to intercept calls fired so this is being used regularly by states also by other actors against states unfortunately the technology is. again that's why we
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need. to talk about them so that we can all be better protected that is one of the biggest exporters of such technologies to countries like bahrain and yemen is this just a case of this is like modern day arms trade could you compared to that always very cautious about referring to technology is weaponry. ten years ago states tried to control. cryptography which is which is very similar that had very negative effects on everyone's ability to communicate securely but certainly these technologies can be used very effectively by governments who wish to repress their people. the technology is very affordable and if you imagine as a dictator you had a choice between buying a nationwide surveillance system allowing you to. for example remote you switch on the microphone of anyone in your country's mobile phone or buying one sixth of
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a tank. which would you select. so this technology can be used to great effect to control and i think the state of. how to be less overtly oppressive we're seeing a new way of keeping control and keeping in power and it involves shooting people less and spying on people more and certainly you know surveillance plays a very very. important that's the wrong word impactful role in a whole range of military activities it always has but now it's almost been taken to its extreme with things like drone strikes. signals intelligence and spying and surveillance provide the overwhelming evidence for action to go and. governments to target people subsequently without without spying it doesn't
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seem that a drone program would be supportable because they wouldn't be able to target and identify people so which countries do this so they're buying happen and most of the sailings. well many surveillance companies only sell to law enforcement agencies and to governments some don't but most of them make make that choice in terms of the countries that are exporting this sort of technology it's those that you'd expect to have a large industry base and historically have been very powerful geopolitically russia exports a lot of surveillance technology u.k. exports a lot of surveillance technology france does america does israel does china does as well is there such thing as a shadow market or is still there is technology. for a long time it has been mean the entire market has been shut we decided that we
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didn't know much about it it was very unregulated there wasn't any political discussion or debate around the policy on it was was weak thanks to a number of boxes over the last few years we've now had the best understanding we ever had over. what this marketplace looks like who's putting it and selling it and now that we've got some controls in place i hope that more transparency can be brought to this industry at an area as a whole. i think critically it will also help us make better decisions about. how we want our own states to be conducting surveillance activities. these companies have created this marketplace out of nowhere there's been there's been demand to decades in many circumstances it states one seeing similar capabilities to those that russia u.k. and the u.s. exercise already and so it's just seeing sort of. similar capability
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i hope that by exposing this industry and by holding it to account we're also going to be able to have a more informed discussion about how. some of these other states conduct their own surveillance activities and how we bring those activities under control as well there we're going to take a short break now folks when we're back when eric. traps international we'll talk more about and they think surveillance technology. coming up with how people they'd rather align stay with us.
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crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because
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a free and open process is critical to our democracy which albus. role. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across several we've been hijacked lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once told us my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem for trucks rational debate and a real discussion that critical issues facing america have on the books ready to join the movement then walk a little bit. well not told you my language at all but i will only react to situations i haven't read the reports but i'm likely to push the no i will leave them to the state department to comment on your latter point of the month to say it is mr kerry you have
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a car is on the job here no god there they go no more weasel words. when you fade a direct question to me prepared for a change when you threw a punch be ready for a bad. freedom of speech and little down to freedom to question.
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we're back was there a king privacy advocate and researcher so eric when methods like face it into cation mobile phone monitoring and surveillance drones why is it still so difficult to catch terrorists and criminals. and. very good question. i think one of the things that has been interesting with the snowden revelations is that governments have been quick to say that the release of all this information has expressly assisted terrorists in the u.k. i think the line by one of our senior spy chiefs was that terrorists will be rubbing their hands with glee. i don't see any basis for that.
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as someone who spent a few years previously advising n.g.o.s who were taking litigation against governments and wanted to make sure that communications were secure against surveillance so that the litigation against government for human rights abuses could be as powerful as it could be going through myself. every single document released trying to understand how i might be able to regulate or change my behavior to escape the dragnet surveillance that we know is going on and i haven't been able to find a single thing i can change about how i act to evade my behavior or otherwise and of course we knew that terrorists were already very well aware of the kind of surveillance capabilities that were going on while they might not have known the code names of the programs there was a reason why it is i'm a bin laden as long as it did for him to be caught and it's because he didn't touch a single piece of technology. so the idea that the terrorists have been assisted by
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this is. ludicrous in my. least on the evidence we've seen so far. what it has done is allowed us to have a proper debate about the role surveillance plays in society and to see whether there have been excesses and this agencies have gone too far can terrorists put their hands on the surveillance programs. i mean. certainly i mean they can they can attempt to buy it i mean as always it depends on your definition of terrorism and terrorist is in any circumstance. in the same way that they're able to put just weaponry and you've got a similar capability. i suppose the more the thing that would constrain them is that. by nature they're not state actors which means the effect of their ability to vet is going to be exceptionally constrained. surveillance
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technology isn't always. a piece of information of technology that you can walk around and kind of use it any point it's topping us infrastructure. that's why. large countries have much larger surveillance capability because they have access to communications networks that. private conversations flow through much of that on me and networks which direct your traffic through hundreds of thousands are really supposedly concealing your personal information is that effective does it really where. you network something like tool sure yeah. i mean as we understand it yes it's very effective it monitoring your. story hiding or anonymizing your your ip address from where you're communicating. it's very effective against not just state actors but
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a whole range of individuals that might have privileged network access so i have have the ability to see your communications as they flow through the network and there's a whole range of. that kind of capability but right the way through to the websites that you end up visiting or forums or anything else you may not want them to know that you're looking at that as well and knows there's hundreds of reasons why that might be the case. you might be looking for and you don't want people to work out that it was you're connecting from your workplace or you might be someone that is. inquiring about the kind of rape service's. victim support but not want that to be linked back to you necessarily so there's a whole range of reasons why an image is important to kind of the functioning of democracy and an onion routing is one of the ways that you can help. protect yourself online but also all of that all those encrypted never. provide
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a platform for a drug and are selling clapp sites right is there a middle ground between total freedom and total control. there are ways that you can use technology for criminality but that's the same with the telephone or anything else i don't think that the nature of it fundamentally changes. for students ability to gain access to information and investigate using traditional police sources. you know you brought up at snowden said before his revelations were made did you have any idea about the scope of global government surveillance that was going on. snowden releases have have kind of confirmed. privacy advocates and others who have been following this area for a long time. fia's. so this is inherently secretive or at least has been traditionally and it makes it very difficult to
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confirm anything that's going on so it's always a basis based on pieces of information. the the extent of the spying is certainly shocking and and many of. them and some details within it have taken. me by surprise the lengths to which the national security agency is going. to defeat encryption technologies putting in back doors into the just that we all use every day is shameful. and the justifications by governments for why they do it i think also. are very disappointing rather than recognizing just how far this is gone and seeing the damage that's being done and changing course people just point fingers and say whatever one does it so why can't we which seems to be a remarkably childish response. violations of human rights but it doesn't seem like
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the governments are going to cut back or wrap up their programs and surveillance who is the most at risk from surveillance is the general public or the high profile figures. well unfortunately we're all at risk we have no idea who state agencies may want to target. there's been no information has been released as part of that for the most part. what we do know is that every single person is now a target at least in the justification of of an s. a q. they say that they need to intercept everything to work they do want to target or not which means that all of the. communications are scooped up and analyzed and sorted and and stored and filtered and queried and. with often the mentor are suffering as a result so i think the one thing that we've we've concretely learnt is that everyone is being targeted and everyone's rights being violated every day so accept
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the aims they catch tell us about the most amazing technology that's out there and market today something that you know me and could never imagine could exist. well one of the things that i was shocked at when i first went was the success of. commercial. malware and spyware that is being used to target people so this is. crudely a form of hacking where you deploy a piece of software to someone's mobile phone or to their computer which if successfully infected then allows the adversity to take complete control this means that. your encryption that your kind of employing. is being made redundant because every message that you type is being logged five at the keyboard. tools and
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technologies to hide your ip address or others online also get. made very ineffective. and it turns your mobile phone for example into the ultimate spying device is there any way you can know that that you're being spied on or you're being watched and surveiled. the short answer is no. there are ways in which you can do sophisticated forensic analysis to try and determine whether your computer has been affected but it requires expert knowledge and significant amount of time. so on a day to day practical level for most people it's beyond the scope to be able to concrete me work out whether or not you'll be emplaced and direct surveillance however what i must reiterate is that the nature of. works now means that everyone's communications. already being intercepted by at least one state actor
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the ukase tempore programmed into steps the communications all those many people as it can process as they flow through the united kingdom releases that we've seen from two thousand and seven show that they already had extraordinary capability to record and met a date for thirty days in all content for three days we can only assume that could take capability has increased so it's no longer theoretical question about whether or not you are being targeted by surveillance your communications all being intercepted somewhere like things like fingerprint those are voice control stuff that's presumably making our lives is there are those also helpful to anyone mind hearing us. regrettably with many forms of kind of commercial technology that we're all using to improve our lives. and build additional surveillance risk it means that more data that previously you keep on your person writes in
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a notebook or speak to someone who's close by to you is now being transmitted and that means that it's flowing through communications networks that state taxes and others can have access to. likewise security hasn't always been the priority that it needs to be. within those building these sorts of tools. one of the big areas that needs to be improved on is that commercial building that . every day give us a better quality of life and to help fix the small problems need to put security back at the top of the agenda it's no longer theoretical risk our communications are being intercepted we know they are. to ensure that the communications that we make to and from their services in this are protected and encrypted for instance where the n.s.a. collaborates with applications populaire and smartphone users angry birds for
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instance everyone's playing that is it spying on us. well from what we've learned it's not that i'm green birds are collaborating with the national security agency it's. transmitted information that they were collecting on your phone. and they were doing this for the purposes of advertising for the most part they wanted to learn more about what you were doing so that they can sell ads to use parts of their free services. what n.s.a. were able to do is to piggyback on that information to collect additional information otherwise wasn't being transmitted and how exactly is this helping to catch terrorists and criminals. very good question but it's not one that i'm at a position i'm afraid to i don't understand how the majority of the capabilities that we've seen being released will do a particularly effective job of preventing terrorist attacks. many of them may be
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needed but without democratic debate and public abolishment of what's being done i think that they are just the most particularly the hacking that's being taking place by a whole range of state taxes. at the moment is. to stop at no point did we give the public. the states to conduct this sort of equipment and we're all suffering as a result as the tools that we were lying on to communicate securely being weakened in the name of catching terrorism but it's being done in secret and without our consent everything is so much for this interesting interview we're talking to larry king had of research at privacy international or talking whether one can be protected without being completely surveilled apparently not that's it for at this edition of i will see you next time.
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we think of. going to. little secret a secret the u.s. government would like. through all labor it's. all of the. bilbo i did earlier succeeded ok good all will do and there is a. little later.
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the. problem is a problem very hard to take on a privilege to get along here a place that has sex with the target there are none let's. just. look at. a.
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through two ukrainian eastern regions declare. overwhelming support for self-determination in a referendum a high turnout and a yes vote. journalists injured while filming a military operation in east ukraine for altie is finally brought to moscow but. after days of negotiations with the ukrainian authorities. nato pushes ahead with a military drill on russia's border using an unprecedented number of troops as the united says it wants increased defensive measures in europe in the wake of the ukrainian crisis. help an intimate partner all a deadly threat a poll of britain suggest people have mixed feelings about the robotic technology
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attempt to separate fact from fiction. from our studio center in moscow this is r.t. international with the twenty four hours a day ukraine's eastern dennett's region has declared itself a sovereign state it follows a referendum on the status of the area which has seen massive antigovernment protests in recent months you know what was made by the interim head of the self-proclaimed the nets people's republic. then you is going to go to school from now on the people's republic of did netsky is a sovereign state the supremes body of the republic is the supremes council full by the republican government and security council based on the will of the people of the nets and to restore historical justice we asked the russian federation to
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consider making with the new republic a part of the russian federation. the region has followed suit in declaring itself a sovereign state just after announcing the results of its referendum overwhelming majority of people who took part in the votes in both eastern ukrainian regions voted in favor of self determination. has been following the ballots. the final tally is now in for yesterday's referendum vote and no surprise it is an overwhelming yes for the right for self-determination here in the region the final count is eighty nine percent of people voting yes in the gun squeege and it stands at ninety six percent it is also a referendum that saw an extremely high turnout there were people that were literally standing in some polling stations for hours the queues went all the way down the road sometimes in circling the next road and even going around the corner this is a clear indication of the importance and value that people here put on this referendum
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and they were essentially voting for an issue that was very close to the high. the recent military operation that here government for the better part of the past two weeks also saw people go in such large numbers to the streets and this was a point that was bought time by denis pushilin who is the chairman of the did its people's republic government he said that moving forward they can be no communication with kiev other than prisoner swap said might be in the pipeline he said that only russia could act as a mediator and now moving forward the regions of dates and lugansk will cooperate we're hearing from the lugansk central elections committee that they are appealing to the united nations to grant them a sovereign state status at the same time they say that they're canceling the presidential elections that are slated to be held on the twenty fifth of this month that is something that people have been asking whether or not those presidential elections will go ahead in this part of the country and the answer is no this reaction has been greeted on the streets with
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a lot of enthusiasm in fact in front of the local administration building here in donetsk people were very excited to hear the final tally although it was very much anticipated it did bring a lot of optimism from the crowds. i do believe the outcome reflects the will of the people here are several polling stations and everywhere they will food by midday and they will long queues at all sure i'm really happy that people made this choice it's impossible to talk to the authorities in kiev who don't want to listen to us so the people decide it for themselves now those government troops that are year are considered occupants and we need to free our land of them the kid of government has responded by calling this referendum a facet says that the results are illegal and that it will not recognize them but that kind of criticism is expected by people here in the region and it is certainly not something that they particularly worried about.
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a research on international relations at moscow state university let's start with those referendum results what we saw long queues did we get ballot boxes it seemed fairly disorganized and lack of polling stations the ballots were printed with little protection so theoretically they could have easily been copied so the question is just how representative of the majority of people is the result of both referendums ok well it has to be said that of course there were methodological and pre-surgery oral flaws with the election the referendum as it occurred but it couldn't have happened any other way we need to remember that this. referendum was conducted it was truly an example of people's self organization done on a shoestring budget reportedly one thousand seven hundred dollars most of which was spent on paper and cartridge ink to print to print the ballots
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and during all this time the unelected putsch regime occupying kiev has done its absolute best to interfere with the vote so. what occurred in donetsk and lugansk with the referendum was actually remarkably well pulled off considering the conditions that it was taken under and we have to consider three things one a large turnout which is nearly impossible to deny. the overwhelming landslide victory since the vote was was essentially public with the glass ballots and the western journalists who served in place of international monitors we could say who clearly informally polled on the ground the strength of support for the independence vote and three we have to remember that this did indeed
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happen under the barrel of a gun. but not the barrel of the gun of the self-defense forces right under the barrel of the gun of this kiev regime who was actually killing voters as they tried to vote against it on the referendum day it did against the wishes of moscow russia did not want to see this referendum go ahead at this stage what you make of its reaction so far it's saying that. obviously the people's will should be recognized but the result should be implemented through what where is mosco standing on this yeah i think moscow's reaction to the referendum they of course recommended that it not that it be postponed and they had a somewhat tepee reaction to it but at the same time they didn't completely disown it either the first statement out of moscow this morning that it looked forward to a dialogue between danielle school gaunts and kiev to resolve the situation and
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implement the people's will was a very strong indication that russia is still really trying for dialogue with give reactions to really. cells russia want to see another x. all of these regions of this area of ukraine in the way that we saw in crimea it is certainly not plan a russia has never wanted to dismember ukraine from the very beginning however. the mess that political pressure both within their own hands can move within russia and kiev in the west's continued refusal to. compromise on the issue might inevitably force russia to become a hostage of events and that's a point you make about compromise there is moscow saying look we need to talk both sides need to talk and yet the shelling of slavyansk that's been going on for days now what does that say about kiev's commitment and goodwill to try and deescalate the situation because after all moscow has been accused by the west of escalating
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the tensions you know it's clear that the exact opposite is actually the case launching artillery shells on your own people people you that you wish to rule over and certainly no path to dialogue and in a way you could say that these continued military actions including artillery was the biggest campaign for the yes vote for independence and law we're going to see referendums of this nature now taking place elsewhere throughout the country and in effect are we saying we seeing a divided ukraine taking place we can certainly say that i don't know if we can predict referendums in the immediate future but we're going to certainly see this resistance to the regime in kiev spread to hark off. other nearby regions of the. and this is only going to escalate unfortunately is as far as i can see it thanks very much indeed for your insight on this most of our
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international relations expert and senior electret moscow state university thank you. well. he was shot while filming a military operation in east ukraine has been brought to moscow it took three days to negotiate his evacuation with the ukrainian authorities are also forced. to make an extra stall. is it. for us. you can see the plane has just landed here in the border as you said you had to make another landing. in the. ukraine was a difficult. process with the ukrainian side it took three days bring twenty three year old. really put his life on the line literally. he was. trying to film the event. the violence he wanted to come closer to there were armed
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men. showed clearly that he was that he was representative of the media and. the. happy that he survived it really well i can only say just respect for him for doing his job putting his life on the line like that. in reality russia's prime minister says you have to pay for gas in advance. according to dimitri medvedev. given the multi-billion dollar cash injection ukraine received from the international monetary fund ukraine is three point five billion dollars worth of gas bills. to pay off at any time soon overdue payment. to the country twice over the past decade the country trying to siphon off fuel from transit pipes. well ukraine has been a mainstay of the u.s.
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state department news briefing in recent months and today was no different really important george we know going to tell us what was. different said at all. no we just heard what has become a daily tirade against russia spoken by the u.s. state department spokesman spokeswoman jen psaki she at least a new list of accusations regarding this weekend referendum referendum is insisting that the u.s. will not recognize the outcomes misaki said that the methodology used for the voting in the referendum was highly. highly suspect and also claim that children and citizens in moscow and st petersburg cast ballots but she didn't provide any proof for her accusations as for the facts we do know that children did accompany their parents who were voting casting votes in this weekend's
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a referendum and we do know that citizens in st petersburg and citizens petersburg and moscow did cast ballots but it was done in a symbolic gesture in support of the referendum not as a legitimate votes that were actually counted misaki also claims that a system of carousel voting was used in the referendum but when asked by a journalist what exactly that means she had a hard time explaining her own after musician. it's methodology was also highly suspect with reports of carousel voting pre-marked ballots which. you know i think this is i was reading that i'm not familiar with that term either it may be that people weren't checking and i'll check and see what what. they were going to i don't think it's a reference to that. once again miss sakhi recycled her criticism about moscow accusing the kremlin of not doing enough to broker peace in
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ukraine also insisting that tens of thousands of russian soldiers are still position all along ukraine's borders now during this press briefing on monday she also warned russia against using energy as a bargaining chip with ukraine now keep her currently zero is moscow reported three and a half billion dollars for gas supplies and journalists as misaki how she expects for that debt to actually be paid. we don't think energy should be used access to energy should be used as a. tool a threatening tool they would say that they just want to be paid for labor to deliver i think the comeback context of the situation on the ground means that this is not just business as usual obviously will probably speaking you do think that the russians are right to demand to be paid for which they are shaving again matt i'm happy to pull this up when i get back to my desk but there's a range of details the involved in their agreements in the past and they've made
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threats around them before. clearly short for answers during this press briefing on monday but we also found out according to mr jack is that the obama administration has expressed its disappointment with france over its relations with russia why well because france is planning to proceed with a one point two billion euro sale of two warships to russia this is something that the u.s. administration does not want they wanted russia to be isolated with saying but france is proceeding with this with this sale because it's a contract and b. it brings jobs and revenue to france now what we did not hear from the u.s. state department spokesperson during this briefing is any mention of kiev's ongoing military operation in eastern ukraine she didn't acknowledge the death of two civilians over the weekend who were allegedly killed when the national guard raided one of the city's holding a referendum is also has not denounced the fact that the protesters in eastern
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ukraine as terrorists obviously all parties involved are saying that they want to see a dialogue between the opposition and the pointed government in ukraine but the word terrorist is not the kind of dialogue. that parties are referring to that were terrorists and the fact that keep her first two opposition members as terrorists is something that the u.s. administration has not even addressed or denounce. thanks very much indeed for that report. well some of the european leaders have pulled no punches in their condemnation of the referendum in east ukraine the british foreign secretary said the eurovision song contest has more credibility than the people's votes in lugansk . but is all to boycott reports in the dismissal of the referendum as illegitimate west important issues have neglected to mention it was a revolution that led to an arrest in the first place you can watch a full report online at all to call. the.
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international live more news for you after the break. crosstalk rules in effect you can jump in anytime you want.
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the media leave us so we leave the people. of the scene motions to your. party visible. shoes that no one is with to get that you deserve answers from. politic. nato's european commander says the alliance is ready to increase its defensive measures near russia it's already been evidence that this is already happening. with around six thousand personnel on the ground the alliance is staging war games in estonia expected to last for three weeks the troops about by fighter jets missile defenses and anti aircraft units plus
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a cyber security team the so-called spring storm drill is an annual event which was first held in two thousand and three however according to his military this year the scale is unprecedented and victoria nuland from the u.s. state department says there is a reason for this our message to russia is clear nato territory is inviolable and we're mounting a visible deterrent to any russian efforts to test that we've bolstered the u.s. poland aviation detachment at air force base and we've maintained a steady u.s. naval presence in the black sea and we've also deployed a total of seven hundred fifty u.s. ground troops to a stonier latvia lithuania poland and romania well this is not a complete list of the nato troops in the region here's a closer look now for you apparently the alliance has been building up in eastern europe ever since ukraine was plunged into turmoil some of nato's biggest members of sent dozens of fighter jets and spy planes reports a guided missile cruiser is ready to join
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a party of two nato war ships already stationed in the black sea we're going to examines the expansion. nato is pivoting to russia again the alliance is looking to deploy more forces close to russia's borders and to get members to spend more on the military its key member the us which spends more on military than the countries with the next ten highest budgets combined is now getting a chance to boast its presence. today the u.s. military is engaged in nearly one hundred countries with nearly four hundred thousand personnel stationed or deployed around the world. now that we're looking at the prospect of an evil larger presence of nato forces in eastern europe the u.k. foreign secretary says it is moving forward in a way that should worry russia in the long term while russia has been worried for a while now twenty four years ago the u.s. promised question not to expand nato eastward but since the collapse of the soviet union nato added twelve is seen european countries to the military alliance and may
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still be eyeing a few more even despite broken promises washing nato found ways to cooperate on issues like afghanistan drug trafficking nonproliferation but now even that has been put on ice in washington i'm going to check on. being a key u.s. ally germany is essential to boosting nato military presence in europe but as he has found out some of the countries m.p.'s are not happy about the idea. of his organises there is no reason why nato forces should be stationed close to russia neither the baltic states nor poland are threatened in any way the conflict is in ukraine and ukraine is not a member of nato there is an attempt to use the situation to make nato troops a permanent feature in this region passwords and east is to resinous them is pouring fuel on the fire by placing nato troops closer to the russian border it goes against the principles of peaceful coexistence not of that what this nato is
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accusing russia of intervening in ukraine but the fact is that ukraine has been getting support from the us via n.g.o.s for years u.s. government has admitted to investing five billion dollars into so-called civil society right now nato is actively supporting the military operation with its advice and know how we see this as an escalation nato has been doing its geopolitical strategic interests were not willing to accept that and we want to return back to the policy of peace we will fight for that in parliament. and other world news this drone strike has killed at least six suspected al-qaeda militants in southern yemen united states is the only country operating a manned aircraft over yemen though it really admits carrying out such attacks last month the country's army launched a massive offensive to eliminate al qaeda fighters in the self insurgents retaliated with a number of deadly assaults against security forces. islamists
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have released a new video allegedly showing a group of adopting schoolgirls militants who are against western education for women claim that some of the teenagers have converted to islam the group's leader says they'll only be released after all prisoners of freed around three hundred schoolgirls were kidnapped in northern nigeria on the fourteenth of april very a few did manage to escape. a spate of taliban attacks across afghanistan marks the beginning of the annual spring offensive at least three people have been killed and several more injured insurgents have targeted provincial buildings airports and security several cities including the capital kabul violence is escalating as nato troops get ready to withdraw by the end of this year. a third of people in the u.k. the spread of android technology according to a new poll the biggest concern is the potential use of killer machines in the hands of the military so already sarah firth went to find out whether robots are
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a threat to humanity or just handy. well they say the truth is stranger than fiction and when it comes to robots they could well be right take a look at this little guy he's been designed to mimic people's movements their way here at the imperial college robot say and it's a case in some of the cutting edge technology and there's lots of interactive areas that people can join in i'm just going to come over here to. take a page thank you very much for joining us now this is this is really cutting edges and this is the three d. printing drawing can you explain a bit about what this does commonly flying robots they can fly that they can take pictures but the research we do is to take the next that have robots that can fly and interact with the environment and you know as the creator of this i can see you got an interactive area where people are joining in and playing a bit actually trains have become very accessible to a lot of people who own and they're on the high street is that
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a good sort of developments in technology do you think i think it's really boosts the field or for about six foster to consumer markets like mobile phones everyone has a mobile phone in their pockets and soon we will have moving objects around us robotic devices now the only start mobile phones so this revolution will be one of the major ones in this century and this definitely i mean the consumer market really pushes that and it's a good thing i think but a recent poll to coincide with the release of a new site by drama showed a whopping one in three british people there the rise of the machines forty six percent thought technology was a valving too quickly many worrying they'd be replaced in their jobs and a surprising seventeen percent of those questioned said they'd be prepared to have intimate relations with an android before this week professional starkey will be participating in a un meeting to argue against autonomous drones being allowed to have
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a kill function but he says there's no. needs to be scared of innovation just cautious about certain aspects of it you know new books are fun but they mustn't kill people at least not the much to kill people when they're making the decision or some dogs are looking at in the decision to them that's the only part of this that we don't like and sometimes people get the wrong idea and think that this will stifle innovation well we're hoping to stray from the innovation of robots killing people but not stateful any other kind of innovation hey this guy's currently doing heikki which is more than i can gather to think we might know or understand. but they're already part of our daily lives whether it's on mobile phones computer technology or being used in car manufacturing and the prospects of what robotics to me for the teacher are incredibly exciting there are london.
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the integration of robots into the military will be discussed for the first time by the un later this week experts are most worried about the potential use of cool functions which could essentially lead to machines becoming fully autonomous weapons the technology is still being developed but there are already calls for a ban supporters however believe that robots can react more quickly to prevent human losses. scuse me more news for you in just over half an hour when i return with the team next a lot of international it is cross talk with peter lavelle debating the referendum in eastern ukraine and by the way if you're in the u.k. as she returns she is taking you underground after the break. dante wombs a partner went to a waffle house to rob it he apparently didn't expect anyone there to have a concealed weapons permit but just in harrison did he waited for just the right
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moment drew his weapon and killed williams but woods is grieving family are now calling to change south carolina's concealed carry laws are upset that harrison was not charged obviously right or wrong good or bad the family of williams has the right to feel sorrow for their loss but if it wasn't their loved one who was the robber i think they might feel very different this are bribery situation is the exact reason why concealed carry permits exist if you to be liberals about concealed carry they will always present some sort of fantasy situation where god wouldn't help you to prove that you don't need them what if a guy sticks up behind you then you're going to be totally worthless man guns aren't a magic answer to every crime situation but often they come in handy and they sure did for justin harrison when he was looking down the barrel of a criminal's gun so what kind of america do you want to live in one where you're helpless and have to beg for your life on the floor of a restaurant or in america where if you rob a waffle house you're going to pay for it i think the choice is pretty obvious fascist my opinion.
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personal data are trusted a cloud service. that insures protecting your privacy. could be raised to randomly. become a target of the n.s.a. . what if unclouded sky is right above the.
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hello and welcome to crossfire for all things considered i'm peter lavelle ukraine on the brink and for many self-determination is the goal after the illegal western backed coup we can and the massacre in odessa ukrainians are opting to determine their own fate it would appear the ukraine we once knew is now gone forever. to cross talk to crisis in ukraine i'm joined by my guest kevin barrett in madison he's an editor at veterans today dot com and an international affairs analyst in london we have charles bridge he is a security analyst and a former british army officer and counterterrorism intelligence officer and in moscow we crossed to andrew what up call he is a political analyst and journalist or a gentleman crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want kevin if i go to you first in madison we have referendum being conducted in ukraine is this a tipping point as i said in my introduction is the ukraine we once knew gone
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forever well yes i think it is the crane was overthrown in what was being cast in the western media as a kind of a populist people's revolution against a corrupt government but the truth of the matter was president yanukovych which was democratically elected and his legitimate government was overthrown in a kind of neo nazi putsch supported by the usual suspects these days the western operation gladio linked intelligence agencies the i.m.f. and their austerity oligarchs and the local zionist oligarchs in ukraine as as well. similar bad news forces these are the same people that have basically been overthrowing a destabilizing governments since if not time immemorial well at least since the coup that overthrew most in one nine hundred fifty three in iran and we had similar events in dozens of other countries so what we're really seeing here is
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a country that's a democracy has been overthrown it's been replaced by a government that is a strange alliance of neo nazi thugs i.m.f. austerity freaks and these oligarchs corrupt you know criminal oligarchs and i don't think that is going to survive the present. reach to deal with moscow that was obviously in the interest of the ukrainian people the west couldn't match it so they overthrew him and now the country is on life support it's in economic crisis there are these riots in the streets these nazi thugs are being sent to eastern ukraine to burn whole groups of protesters all i let me let me let me go to charles about leisurely train right let me go to charles here i think it's quite interesting on the back of what kevin said here we have an illegal an elected government in kiev but the people in east ukraine are trying to vote express their
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wish for self-determination it's being condemned by the white house and western capitals kind of ironic yes it is all going to be if it weren't so tragic because of course people are losing their lives and undoubtedly people will continue to do say in a south and maybe in other parts of ukraine the fact is that as your previous speakers just mentioned the fact is that it's very difficult for the west if you like you know they're tempted to do say it's very difficult for them even with a straight face and without any sense already to condemn what's happening in. eastern regions today which is an attempt at least to give expression to popular votes popular well as we saw in crimea where for example in crimea. for example from there a steeper of course couldn't attend because it was dubbed by the west on illegal referendum if such a thing can exist but of course the only reason it is illegal and the only reason that these referenda being held today are illegal according to the west is because
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of course your current constitution effectively says that a vote cannot be held on independence or on self-determination unless it's held throughout the whole country of course that could be change that constitution last but if one thinks for example of the united kingdom in a few weeks even he's going to have a referendum on whether scotland a very important part of the u.k. should become independent you've got here on the one hand the british government for example the british media supporting to that referenda should take place i mean it's without question that it should take place that people should have this rights this house it's a determination and yet. that is being denied by the kiev government and of course that is being supported by the west of course because it's not into your political interests exactly at the same time of course even more ironic is that of course that is an unelected government which is continuing with those rules and doing that here in moscow i think again and the irony continues is that you know there is no
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constitutional order in ukraine right now i don't know why people are saying it's against the constitution deposing unicode which was against the constitution the way they did i don't see any functioning constitution whatsoever in ukraine this is why the people of crimea and the east are going their own way ok what we see in ukraine now is a complete breakdown of law and order and ironically the united states is criticizing condemning the voting but they're not criticizing condemning the violence and we look at this military johnson and it's built on blood we look at the snipers in kiev which that was to obviously want to forget about we look at the tragedy in odessa and we look at the massacre in mariupol and we see that right now with the west for all of its humanitarian intervention responsibility protection rhetoric there are strangely silent they don't even want to deal with that what they want to do is they want to change the narrative to focusing on the people who are voting for self-determination in the east ok charles you want to jump in there when i was asking a question and you go ahead jump in. yeah and i was saying on the point of the
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constitution of course i agree that the issue of what happened in kiev of course it's being billed as a constitutional change of government because of course the garda voted for the new government but of course when you look at the circumstances of that change. of course at the time you had the god that was surrounded by and in some cases even infiltrated by members of right sector people were supposedly guarding the route of parliament but of course with that could also be seen to be intimidation the vote was a unanimous vote unanimous vote rather of course in democracies and if in a string of unanimous vote some very important issues within the volga which again suggests that there may be intimidation at work and lastly of course in respect to the so-called legitimacy of that decisions in respect of creating a new government. around thirty percent or so perhaps even more event peaceful absence of course and again that comes down to intimidation in terms of the party of regions the communist party and peace particularly many were absent or perhaps
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intimidated to vote otherwise and i might otherwise have done and of course it's these very people who were the most representative of the people in the south the people in the east of ukraine who now feel that their interests are not represented clearly by this kiev government kevin and it's really quite interesting how media is spinning this in the west in particular the white house is that they're looking at the people in the east saying they're committing any legal act of having a referendum but western media consistently does not like to talk about the leadership in kiev they don't like it because of these neo fascist unsavory characters here that the west is in bed with they've seen with the western leaders go to care they shake their hand they have their pictures taken but western audiences don't know who these people are and that's an old story you know as i suggested earlier the west and particularly the u.s. which is really the big power here along with a certain kind of overlord financial element that dictates policies to the governments. has been overthrowing governments using these kinds of unsavory
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characters for a very long time and they always try to cast them as the good guys during the cold war the people that they would prop up in power like general pinochet were cast in the western media as heroically saving their countries from communism and now they're doing that to a certain extent in egypt. casting general a c c this incredibly brutal thug who's just sentenced over six hundred peaceful opposition protesters to death in a mass kangaroo court show trial he's saving his country from islam and i guess in crane they're trying to cast these neo nazi skinhead thugs who were big fans of adolf hitler as saving their country from russia and this is starting to wear thin they got away with it during the cold war which was an era of only mainstream media only big money could buy big media today were an interconnected world we have
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a thriving alternative media of small scale outlets that are seeking out the truth and then we have a few high production values outlets like russia today press t.v. that are going where only the alternative media dares to go on these issues so i think this process of trying to cast nazis. western sycophants as heroes you know saving us from the enemy jew or that i think that that whole program has really worn its usefulness and i don't know who's going to work much longer and their plans to overthrow the government let me go they really didn't work and they were you know who never works it never works and when you go to you here in moscow i mean it the thing is that there's no going back now we had a deal in february fifth grade twenty first in the e.u. in washington walked away from it i century that's what broke the country and then we have the massacre in odessa i don't see any way going back what do you see statelets. well yes so you actually could see korean especially the russian portion
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descend into a type of pseudo feudal status because you look right now we look at the probably sector of foot soldiers that are in quote unquote national guard right now they're active in the east and south with the suppressions and with the shootings and the foot soldiers for all of darks and if you take it a step further that these people i mean they're fighting these people you know probably sector they're not fighting for united ukraine they're fighting for an ethnically pure ukraine quote unquote and also as well also if you look at i feel look at washing ukraine ukraine in general in july july is going to be the final breaking point because that's when we're going to be having nato action sizes with ukraine are going to be called rapid tried and the moment that happens nato will likely not leave ukraine period and with nato having the upcoming someone has the time or the more than likely institutionalize their presence there under some type of quote unquote peacekeeping operations what we're seeing right now is we're going to see the country irrevocably split after that point told and it's ascending into feudalism and it will officially be a type of pseudo feudal state after nato moves in with quote unquote military
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exercises in july all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on ukraine stay with r.t. . and i think.
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to be an old woman on. her. we think of why we think there are good. for all sand beaches.
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coconut palms gently swaying in the ocean breeze. and frank. white has a deep dark little secret a secret the us government would like you to know about. through all. of the. bilbo i did early succeeded ok good all will. choose your language. according to kevin no influential senators today still some of. the consents to. choose the opinions that invigorating to. choose the stories that impact the minds who choose to be access to often.
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please. welcome back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the crisis in ukraine. and i to go back to charles in london charles i think it's very interesting that this is more of a media war and spin war than anything else here because if you look at western media they always say pro russian protesters pro russian activists pro russian whatever but you know they never say and take care of protesters this is quite remarkable to me because it is think russian angle here it's always by default that it's always russia's fault of course ok this is how western media has trained its
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audiences here but they never give the agency to people in ukraine particularly east in the south and that's particularly that's right of course and that's why we've got to step back at some point and look at this in the political context of world events and strategy and tactics from the western angle as well as the eastern angle and therefore of course it's inevitable that this is going to be framed in reference to. if you like old fashioned cold war politics there is a dispute many people within for example the establishment the lobby groups for example within the washington and london underground of course the brussels hierarchies have a lot of interests particularly especially let's say within nato to justify the reason why nato should still exist after afghanistan is gone after the cold war is gone that there is an agenda if you like to justify why russia should be the enemy why nato should expand why the e.u. should expand so that for course this isn't going to be about ukraine it's going to
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be about framing it in terms of russia as the old fashioned enemy but. and of course the terminology being used here is very important one is seen on western media people being described the. activists in the eastern described as militants. extremists and always of course being called separatists and yet of course opinion polls show and my own experience in east ukraine and i have considered experience that in the south ukraine shows that the majority of people that do not want to be part of russia do not necessarily want to leave ukraine of course all they want is that their rights their religion their politics and their democratic rights should be respected within this new ukraine and of course the signs are for them that that isn't what's happening when one looks at the events of the last couple of weeks for example in odessa where not only has a terrible catastrophe massacre occurred even but that there doesn't seem to be any solid at the present time that this is going to be impartial investigated that those of carried out this attack on what of course the western chord progression
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activists will be brought to account and then secondly what happened in mariel poll and also what may happen in the future all of this of course is changing that dynamic this is changing as it would in any part of the world where people are feeling in the east of ukraine and in the south to some degree that not only are their values and traditions being threatened but also they themselves physically are being threatened and so what ukraine is doing and of course the u.s. and the e.u. must realize this what ukraine is doing by its actions is actually changing its dynamic from people who wanted their rights respected and yet wanted to be part of ukraine to actually thinking let's get out of this country altogether and of course that's a natural consequence of the tactics that seems to be following it's interesting it's the it's the law of unintended consequences because charles is absolutely right in eastern ukraine they were quite satisfied they want to use their own language of their own cultural heritage their relationship with russia historically they end it's really care of this really pushing them away it's in at the same time
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the media says russia's destabilizing it it's really. orwellian it is oh well you know we're living in a william era increasingly so and especially now that we can see through the lies due to this media explosion this happens i think that the it's true that indeed the eastern ukraine is now developing this dynamic of questioning its relationship with with ukrainian especially with this neo nazi. dominated or at least infiltrated group that's now in power in kiev and it is a exactly the law on the unintended consequences due to imperial overreach you know they they didn't need to do this but they are creating a dynamic it's very much like in egypt c.c. didn't have to overthrow the first democratic government in the history of egypt they could have waited and let it fail they would have had a much smoother road to
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a different system there but instead they eagerly jumped in there and launched a brutal coup d'etat likewise in ukraine there there overstretching you know if they'd let events move along a little bit more peacefully had more patience they might have been able to hold it all together right now although things are sport was spiraling out of control the maria poll massacre which basically repeated the adesa massacre seems to suggest that the kiev authorities now of a new strategy of using provocateurs and these nazi thugs in their national guard are related to their national guard with perhaps some help from blackwater and people like that to burn the buildings that these protesters are in and this is something that people don't forget it's it's a horrible suffering that they're witnessing. and i think that this is going to backfire and we're going to see more and more people in eastern ukraine standing ever more firmly against this criminal regime in kiev and it's very interesting to me is that you know washington just can't wait for the people to speak it has to
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determine events themselves because there was. going to be an election in ukraine in march of next year and you know you could have probably lost most likely would have but no no agency is allowed to the people on the ground outsiders must determine that victoria nuland wanted and did determine who rules ukraine right now not the people it wasn't democratically done yet when it comes to victoria nuland she was spot on i mean she got her man in charge. and i also want to address a couple things that we were talking about this being a media war that's one hundred percent true but it's on the verge of becoming a real war especially opposition ski and the republicans in congress to get what they want with arming the ukrainian john tower and the moment that happens if that happens they're going to be interacting arming probably sector and those weapons are going to be spilling down further into non-state actor hands and earlier we were. on intended consequences and and if you think for one moment the unintended consequence of what will occur we actually have a track record whenever the united states arms these extreme groups as we see in
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afghanistan the al qaeda story is well known we see in libya and we see in syria the weapons go directly into terrorist hands once they go into probably sector hands anti-tank what missiles which is what they're talking about right now which might follow a see a pilot program like what they're trying right now in syria that's going to that's going to eventually siphon over into western europe and it's going to siphon over into nationalist right wing and possibly racist groups and at the end of the day an anti-tank missile hitting a school bus full of children is just as bad as hitting a setting a bunch of protesters that are organizing in a city center so what's happening right now is not only is the problem that we have at hand completely destabilizing ukraine but it's soon going to become a transnational and it's going to spread all across the european union through the weapons that are being handed out to these non-state actors it's a very very dangerous situation and victoria nuland the united states state department they've got himself into a huge mess right now huge miss right now charles keep it because it seems to me
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that new and plan is obviously failed she wanted all of ukraine including crimea. now it's an ad hoc and now the plan is to bait russia into action some kind of military action and they're and they're really really angry with mr putin because not only is he not doing that he's not saying much either well of course it's always questionable what the real plan is when we're talking about washington in particular because of course there are always competing agendas at play for example look at the syria situation just to touch it very briefly because there's an analogy here you've got on the one hand perhaps the pentagon perhaps even. to some degree wanting to hold back realizing to some degree what the military and strategic consequences for the u.s. for example in arming al-qaeda type groups all related groups might have for the u.s. but on the other hand you've got very powerful lobbies for example you've got saudi arabia you've got israel concerned and you've also got of course the republican party and others all of course rooting to attack and it's the same in ukraine you've got similar you've got different interests at play and so it means therefore
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that you've got on the one hand perhaps some conspiracy taking place in terms of winning over ukraine or if not perhaps just incompetence at work as you just mentioned in having not seen the foreseeable unintended consequences it may be for example that a second best for the u.s. and perhaps some within the e.u. if they couldn't actually win over the whole of ukraine by fair means or foul. to have a completely disrupted and of course that's what we've got now because otherwise ukraine could have passed to the russian sphere of influence and of course they want to avoid that. charles is absolutely spot on there if they can't have it they're going to destroy it and you know what it's on russia's border that's a gift to russia and you know what the it's the ukrainian people that suffer the most i mean these people they should all be fired and put in prison well they should and i think charles was right about his suggestion that the saudi is really republican party neo con alliance that pushed for war in syria at the last because
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obama's realist. refused to bomb syria after a false flag chemical weapons event of the router in august that same group is more or less the pushing all the trouble in ukraine and i think that some of the realists are being dragged along kicking and screaming in some cases unfortunately mr brzezinski who is in the camp of the realists regarding syria and iran is such a. russia that he has joined the neocon cause and so now we have the israelis the saudis and the republicans are just trying to go after russia destroy ukraine don't even think about the long term geo strategic consequences and i'm afraid that this time the realists may not be able to keep things under control. and you it's really quite interesting to me as we all talk about the crisis in ukraine the real crisis outside of the violence is that the economy is collapsing
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here and i don't see is long is that we have this instability here even if the i.m.f. wants to do something which you know i can't see how can ever be possibly positive they have such a wonderful track record but this is going to fuel on if you will the instability is this economic crisis that is really enveloping the country in a dramatic rate. so what you're going to have is you're going to have a failed state of forty over over forty million people sitting right between russia and the e.u. and i think that in the united states i think there is this naive optimism if you will that all the problems are going to move east but at the same time they might just all move west into the e.u. right now the e.u. cannot withstand what it would what is happening and could be happening in ukraine for one moment to try to imagine the scenario of one to two million ukrainian refugees flooding across the polish border right now to try to imagine and try to imagine the problems that that would occur and then that would result in and also in terms of the i.m.f. here as you have said peter i mean they're not solving anything they're actually making the situation even already i'm sure well not being very depressing no
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gentlemen we've run out of time many thanks to my guests in madison london and in moscow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our t.v. see you next time and remember. you. personal data are trusted the cloud service. that ensures protecting your privacy. could be erased randomly
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i'm. coming up on our t.v. and our team for you covering the unrest in ukraine is airlifted out of the country three days after being shot we'll have an update on his condition from moscow i have. millions of dollars on capitol hill are earmarked for get no the money already reportedly used to create a new secret president with in the detention camp more on that coming up. and the head of the u.s. intelligence issues a gag order for intel employees blocking them from side news reports and sources based on leaks more on that later in the show. this monday may twelfth four pm in washington d.c. and lindsey france you're watching our team erica. a journalist working for our
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team who was shot while filming a military operation in eastern ukraine has been brought to moscow it took three days to negotiate his evacuation from mario paul with the ukrainian authorities marches your piskun off has more from moscow. after several nerve racking complicated medical procedures three days of negotiations with ukrainian authorities show that as of early gopher was a journalist working for artie's corruptly video agency who was shot while working in ukraine filming the violence there in the town on the ninth of may he has been finally brought to moscow along with his wife on board of a special medical evacuation aircraft and is now being treated by doctors in one of the main hospitals all for the russian capital it's still not clear what exactly happened on that day even when you were there as he was working out how did it turn out that he was fired at he was shot in his stomach even though he was wearing
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a bulletproof vest with a huge sign saying dress on it he was clearly demonstrating to everyone especially to the armed men in military uniform that he was not on and he was just there to work he was a journalist how did it happen how did it work out the way he did but thankfully he's alive doctors say that the flight did not worsen his condition but he's stable although he's currently being treated at the merge and see in an emergency room and his wife we spoke with she said that she's only going to meet with him tomorrow but she says that there's lots of still hope that everything will be ok for go that he's twenty three years old doctors say that he passed through the previous medical operations so successfully and there is one more to go a little bit further on but once again we just hope that he will be ok and there will be no more further serious consequences for him putting his life on the line like that just for the world to see what's really happening in ukraine but to talk
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about what happened in the. on that day on the ninth of may now his wife also stressed that you know there was wearing a bulletproof vest it's not the first time that he was on assignment filming the violent events still unfold. in ukraine right now but she said it was so sudden and everything was happening so unexpectedly that neither of them expected and even believed that they were in such grave danger just walking on the streets god also added that after a soldier was shot himself into the ground a man who was walking just by on the street ran up to him to help him and he was fired as well and shot and unfortunately he died right there on the spot i just said that she still hasn't told father about this but also she added that right now the situation there in those parts of ukraine is so dangerous she recommends all. the locals everyone living in those parts of the country should wear bulletproof
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vests she said that she's really not happy saying this but she said it's true to the troops because doctors told her that if it wasn't for the book proof vest then it's very unlikely that so that it would have survived such a dangerous injury a shot in the stomach is one of the most dangerous injuries that one could receive and even though she is in a very complicated. state right now in a stable condition but still very serious one still who knows what would have happened if you didn't wear that bulletproof vest on that actually specifically it's the whole thing with someone firing a directly and precisely into that bulletproof vest despite the media signs on iraq whatever it's this precision which makes both and so that as she said suspect who was pulling on the trigger at that moment so once more both going to head his wife guides are now in moscow he is being treated by doctors here looks
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like there's a good chance that things will be ok even though the injury that he received is very serious doctors say he's a young man he's just twenty three years old he wants to be the first operation. quite well the flights didn't harm his it was a joy and they say there's enough reasons to believe that everything will be flying so i guess what's left is to thank him for the job that he did putting his life on the line like that just for the world to be able to see what's really happening in those parts of the country the events which some media choose not to show that us r.t.c. or piskun of reporting the results of a referendum in eastern ukraine are in organizers say the majority of those who voted in lugansk and on as regions sunday so they want independence from kiev the declaration of the region's new autonomy comes following massive anti-government protests there recent months artist possibly or has more from donetsk the final
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tally is now in for yesterday's referendum vote and no surprise it is an overwhelming yes for the right for self-determination here in the region the final count is eighty nine percent of people voting yes in the gun screech and it stands at ninety six percent it is also a referendum that saw an extremely high turnout there were people that were literally standing in some polling stations for hour was the queues went all the way down the road sometimes in circling the next road and even going around the corner this is a clear indication of the import. put on this referendum if they were essentially voting for an issue that was very close to their hearts the recent military operation by the here government for the better part of the past two weeks or so so people go in such large numbers to the streets and this was a point that was brought up by denis pushilin who is the chairman of the did its people's republic government he said that moving forward they can be no
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communication with kiev other than prisoner swap said might be in the pipeline he said that only russia could act as a mediator and now moving forward the regions of dates and lugansk will cooperate we're hearing from the lugansk central elections committee that they are appealing to the united nations to grant them a sovereign state status at the same time they say that they're canceling the presidential elections that are slated to be held on the twenty fifth of this month that is something that people have been asking whether or not those presidential elections will go ahead in this part of the country and the answer is no this reaction has been greeted on the streets with a lot of enthusiasm in fact in front of the local administration building here in donetsk people were very excited to hear the final tally or vote was very much anticipated it did bring a lot of optimism from the crowds. i do believe the outcome reflects the will of the people here are several polling stations and everywhere they will fool by
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midday and they will long queues at all sure i'm really happy that people made this choice it's impossible to talk to the authorities in kiev who don't want to listen to us so the people decided for themselves now those government troops that are year are considered occupants and we need to free our land of them the kid of government has responded by calling this referendum a facit says that the results are illegal and that it will not recognize them but that kind of criticism is expected by people here in the region and it is certainly not something that they are particularly worried. that was our two correspondent paula slayer following the locals declaration of sovereignty regional leaders turn to moscow today asking to officially become a part of russia moscow is yet to respond to the request but did weigh in on the results of the referendum saying moscow respects the will of the people in donetsk and lugansk and hopes that the practical realisation of the outcome of the referendums will be carried out in a civilized manner russia called for
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a postponement of the independence referendum last week but regional leaders went ahead with a vote the u.s. on the other hand does not recognize the a referendum calling it illegal under ukrainian law and describing the polling as suspect meanwhile former congressman ron paul weighed in on the apparent flip flopping some may be noticing in the state department's reaction to violence in ukraine referencing the u.s. side's denouncement of ukrainian police action toward violent protesters in kiev as my town square during the winter months and comparing it to the endorsement of a recent ukrainian military crackdown on separatists of the interim government he said the u.s. state department provided much assistance earlier this year to those involved in the effort to overthrow the ukrainian government but now that those former protesters have come to power the u.s. takes a different view of protests now they give full support to the bloody crackdown against protesters in the east they think the rest of the world does not see this apocryphally well as the crisis in ukraine simmers and political opinions on the matter remain divided only time will tell how the situation it will be resolved.
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now though you may have heard from media reports that guantanamo bay detention camp is downsizing even considering shuttling inmates off to foreign countries like europe why that doesn't mean funding for new secret prisons on the site isn't ramping up our teams making lopez takes a look at the proposal for a brand new multi-million dollar high value detainee complex the most expensive a prison facility in the world is about to get a little more pricey if congress and the u.s. southern command get their way and earmark was added on to the twenty fifty. national defense authorization bill that would allow ninety three million dollars to the guantanamo bay detention facility now the book of that money would go to constructing a new state of the art secret facility to house some of the most dangerous or high value detainees now since two thousand and six at camp seven has housed nine eleven conspirators and others currently fifteen former cia prisoners are being housed as
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they await their death penalty trials they include nine eleven mastermind khalid shaikh mohammed along with four alleged coconspirators of that nine eleven terror plot now the accused bomber of the two thousand bombing of the u.s.s. cole destroyer abra came on the sherry is also there and almost everything about this complex is classified from where it is located within guantanamo bay to who exactly is in or what exactly is in the construction costs now in march the prison camp commander we were admiral richard butler began to shed some light on the secret facility he testified that camp seven was built on a shifting piece of ground that has caused the walls and the floors to shift and crack so bad that some of the camp stores no longer close and he is not the only one who has spoken out on the record about the deteriorating detention facility i would just offer that i am concerned at this point in time that. the facilities
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that the infrastructure there built to last two or three or four years it's now been in existence for eleven years it's rapidly deteriorating and large measure has deteriorated he only requested forty nine million dollars for the new facility though and the pentagon is remaining tight lipped as to where the additional twenty eight million dollars proposal for camp seven has come from now here are the most recent earmarks and what they include in total of ninety three million dollars have been requested including sixty nine million dollars for the construction of that new facility another twelve million dollars will fund construction of a new one. dining room for the presence of staff and then eleven point eight million dollars will be used to replace the medical facility that treats low value detainees now another interesting point that is worth keeping in mind is the defense department refused to include the sixty nine million dollars in his twenty fifteen budget report proposal instead asking its military engineers to reinforce
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the facility rather than buy a new one entirely now in a separate request the southern command asked for twenty point three million dollars to acquire its first full time ship that would help in anti drug smuggling operations that request however was denied right now one hundred fifty four people are being held at the facility as you can see from this chart to the number of detainees has gone down in recent years due to congress and the obama administration allowing for the transfer of prisoners this past year alone we have reported the transfer of detainees to slovakia algeria and saudi arabia among other nations another seventy six people have been cleared for transfer most recently has agreed to accept detainees from guantanamo bay if the u.s. freed it three cuban prisoners that it has captured over the years that proposal is still being discussed though so as you can see fewer people are being housed at the facility moving it slowly but surely toward the eventual closure of that president
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obama has been asking for since he first took office and guess what the cost is still going up on miami herald investigation into the facility found out last year that the total cost to operate the facility every year is in the ballpark of half a billion dollars which translates to about two point seven million dollars per detainees who are here now by the end of twenty fourteen the u.s. will have spent a total of five point two four billion dollars on guantanamo bay and that is a conservative estimate so to compare that to a normal american prison the colorado. max prison costs about seventy eight thousand dollars per inmate per year so one thirty fifth of the total cost i want tom obey right now this year mark is still only a proposal and could very well be taken out of the twenty fifteen india a bill but for right now anyway although the detainees that might be starting to trickle out of the facility the money is still flowing in at the capital meghan lopez r.t.
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. attention people don't expect government officials to quote news sources anymore in their interviews apparently that's just far too dangerous for national security according to the office of the director of national intelligence that is personnel falling within the u.s. intelligence community is now pretty handed and that's a lot of people we're talking seventeen agencies and organizations they may not cite news reports based on leaks in their speeches opinion articles books term papers and other unofficial writings this is on top of the new review policy stating that the d.n.i. personnel and gauging in freeform discussions related to work must get pre-authorization first with an outline of topics expected questions and their responses which is key joining me to illuminate the reasoning in this is kathleen mcclellan the national security and human rights deputy director at the government accountability project thank you very much for joining me now personal needs preauthorization to talk to the public fine i get it that was issued in march this
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new directive though brings up the sourcing it says personnel must not use source in a comes from known leaks or an authorized disclosures of sensitive information ok there but the use of information in a public publication can confirm the validity of an unauthorized disclosure and cause further harm to national security now especially regarding leaks this information is already out in the public in most cases is there really a danger to national security i mean it's really hard to see how there is it's fascinating in the intelligence community that there's this notion of it can be. public yet still classified and this directive is less about protecting national security than it is about controlling what information the public hears so there's information in the public eye and this directive chill's employees from discussing that information and fully discussing that information and the director of national intelligence tried to clarify and made the directive sound a lot less draconian than it really is but if you look at what's written and how it
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could be interpreted and how it's likely to be interpreted it whenever employees criticize the official position it's very very chilling well especially when referencing talking about referencing journalists journalistic work what do you think this directive a stemming from well it's an obvious response to this to the to the disclosures from the whistleblower edward snowden but it's completely misguided because instead of using this is an opportunity to engage with the public director clapper has chosen to chill employees and chill what they can say and instead make sure that the public hears his official position which is disturbing because his official position has been misleading and in sometimes it's been outright false like when he lied to congress very scary indeed now is this setting a dangerous precedent as you've referenced. untrue untrue statements to congress and so on. as you say chilling employees from making
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disclosures and using you know tools like this saying you will have punishments rained down on you with cetera et cetera it seems very dangerous and it's certainly chilling especially when it's read with the earlier directive which said that employees cannot speak with the media at all even informally so you have those two combined with the record number of espionage act prosecutions brought against alleged leakers who are really almost always whistleblowers that sends a very chilling message and i think the public is really who is going to suffer i mean employees have a constitutionally protected right to speak on matters of public concern in the u.s. . so the public is not going to hear from these people they are going to be chilled and the public is going to hear from the intelligence community leadership and that leadership are those are the same people that have been lying to the american public in the world about the scope of the national security agency's mass surveillance apparatus well exactly and if these leaders in the community as you say are scaring the underlings who have mortgages to pay bills to pay etc with
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penalties these people who were a source for the media in the past obviously are going to be very easily scared away let's talk about some of these penalties the failure to comply according to the d.n.i. failure to comply may result in the imposition of civil and administrative penalties and may result in a loss of security clearances and accesses civil penalty penalties very ambiguous very dangerous it seems what was your reaction when you read this civil penalties almost always is going to mean a loss of job loss of income and the security clearance is actually probably the heaviest penalty that is the death knell for an intelligence community employee it prevents you from being a contractor it prevents you from working in your field of expertise and it's used as a retaliation tool against a lot of whistleblowers and anyone who criticizes the government and i think the the more important point is is that this is going to be selectively enforce
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enforced it's almost certain to be selectively enforce enforced it's hard to see a general michael hayden former n.s.a. director or keith alexander who just retired it's hard to imagine that they will be cracked down on for speaking out when especially when they're toeing the party line but when someone doesn't toe the party line or it's a lower level employee telling the public what the public needs to hear then it seems much more likely that that person will be subjected to some sort of penalty this directive also brings in former officials former employees within these seventeen agencies essentially. blocking them from from citing news reports speaking to the media very openly. also ambiguous is that even enforceable in court for former employees to be held to a directive like this well everyone has a constitutional right to speak and employees even government employees have a constitutionally protected right to speak on matters of public concern it's unclear from the language of the directive whether or not it applies to all the
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agencies or just the ones that are directly employed by d.n.i. but regardless it's clear that director clapper is trying to extend his tentacles of control over the public debate beyond simply his employees and that's disturbing absolutely right kathleen mcclellan the national security and human rights deputy director at the government accountability project. it was a near miss of the skies of florida back in march from an american airlines regional jet almost collided with an unmanned drone it was a fifty seat jet approaching tallahassee airport versus something the pilot described as a camouflage for fixed wing aircraft arced artie's nicholas said donovan reports on the potential dangers planes face as more and more drones take off. that drones are more and more frequent in american skies is a fact for instance the us law enforcement is greatly expanded its use of the domestic drones for surveillance purposes the federal aviation administration the f.a.a. knows that this is
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a growing problem and is actin in consequence because but as it frequently happens with new technologies or in this case new industries there are no specific or no tough guidelines yet for that we'll have to wait till september twenty fifth day when the f.a.a. will set the new rules for drone fly in by the way today at the white house secretary of transportation anthony were not fox said said that there is currently two active test in sites for drone flying in america in the meantime the f.a.a. does have some broad rules that require anyone fly in model airplanes to notify. operators and controllers when flying within five miles of any airport it's also required for creation or drone users to fly under certain safety guidelines included the drone remains below four hundred feet but in many cases these rules are just not enough than we saw this in the case of a of
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a jet that nearly collided with a drone over florida earlier this year the pilot of that american airline group regional jet told officials that on march twenty second he came dangerously close to a small remotely piloted aircraft about twenty three thousand feet above the ground and all of this happened near the tallahassee regional airport here in the state of florida we don't exactly know what kind of drone it was if it was a a private drone a commercial drone or even an official one we also don't know if it all happened within that five mile range that we were talking about in other occasions such as an incident involving the u.s. a. after the pilot described site in flying objects as that was small income of the largest. f. four type fixed wing aircraft anyways the truth is that the lack of regulation and
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of control create dangerous situations and those involved may never be punished american airlines is although open in an investigation about this recent incident but it's unlikely that we have a conclusion anytime soon because there was a similar incident back in march twenty third team involved in an alitalia aircraft and that was near the airport j.f.k. airport in new york and the f.b.i. is still investigating that incident but the f.a.a. has authorized more than five hundred public entities such as police departments to fly drones in the u.s. but the reality is that there are many many other drones flying out there and they're doing so under little or no regulation at all so the concern expressed by many like the s s l u that unregulated drones are the first step towards a surveillance society now we have to add safety as a growing issue the bottom line is that the f.a.a.
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needs to move toward regulation and it needs to do it quickly. drone concerns have arisen out of iran where officials say they've reversed engineered a copy of a u.s. military drone captured in iranian air space back in two thousand and eleven the drone in question was a stealth drone the r q one seventy manufactured by lockheed martin it features a special exterior coating that made it difficult to detect with long range radar they're running version was unveiled on the ground at iran's military aerospace exhibition which was attended by iran's supreme leader ayatollah khamenei he announced that the copper would soon go through test flights and it would be very important for reconnaissance missions iran claimed that its electronic warfare unit succeeded in taking control of the u.s. drone guidance system in two thousand and eleven a report that has seemed plausible since the drone suffered no visible damage upon capture last year iran decoded footage from the captured drone and posted it to you tube to demonstrate that they had succeeded in cracking some of its secrets. well
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picture it a crook breaks into an a.t.m. and if these security cameras weren't enough to deter them maybe an acid spewing gap cash machine would do the trick that's exactly what researchers thought at e.t.h. zurich university when they developed a chemical cocktail that a.t.m. could spit out at you if you messed with the machines the researchers modeled their a.t.m. defense systems on behalf of the bombardier beetle the beetle sprays predators with the chemicals hydro quinn on and hydrogen peroxide which are stored in two separate repositories with its abdomen mixed in a third chamber they then spray their enemies with a boiling acidic fluid back to the machine developers intend to fill out fill one compartment with hydrogen peroxide and another with magnes separated by only a thin barrier that if the tape tampered with would break mixing the chemicals which would spew onto iraq face that guy is trying hard so he would have been down
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already or your face if you just forgot your code got angry and smacked the machine but don't worry there's no way to empty. anyway boom bust is coming up next here on r t aaron ade joins us for a quick preview they are out lindsay that was pretty amazing and i love i like slips off he goes back to the persistent yes for sure ok now anyway coming up i'm going bust author of the book think twice harnessing the power of counter intuition michael mobius in his live on today's show moment said is head of global financial strategies at credit suisse and focuses on investor psychology here respect and behavioral finance it's pretty interesting stuff and you definitely won't want to miss my interview and least i think it's interesting and in today's big deal edward harrison and i are discussing income inequality globalization and wage stagnation it's all coming up so stay tuned all right thanks a lot ira thanks that does it for now folks more on the stories we covered go to youtube dot com forward slash our team america check out our website com forward slash usa can also follow me on twitter at lindsey frantz stay tuned boom bust is
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coming up next. it's very difficult for the west see if you like you know the tension today say it's very difficult for them even with a straight face and without any sense already to condemn what's happening in that city eastern regions today which is an attempt to at least to give expression to popular votes popular will as we saw in crimea it was dubbed by the west on illegal referendum we see in ukraine now it's a complete breakdown of law and order and ironically the united states is criticizing condemning the voting but they're not criticizing condemning the violence and we look at this military johnson and his unfiltered blood if.
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i would rather as questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question lol. there
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i marinating this is boom bust and these are the shows that we're tracking for you today. first up every little stories like the show it's actually a story now the prize richard fisher is fired up about the central banks of bond buying program we're taking a look at why along with the relationship between lower interest rates and deflation then we have michael mobile sent of the i have on the program over seven is head of global financial strategies at credit suisse and knows a bit about psychological behavior a thing or two now he's sign of how our rational belief can affect our financial decisions which you never want pretty fascinating fascinating stuff i certainly think it is and in today's big deal edward harrison and i are talking about income inequality globalization and wage stagnation it all starts right now.
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mr president of the federal reserve bank of dallas said last week that he supports and the new central bank's bond buying program this year but he also added that it's likely low interest rates will continue for some time now fisher is a voting member of the fed's policy setting committee f o m c or federal open market committee i know you all know that and he has been a pretty intense critic of the fed's attempts to stimulate growth by buying treasury and mortgage bonds now fischer supports the central bank ending its bond buying program the fed is on course to end the program in october if it continues to taper at the present rate of ten billion dollars now fisher has never liked the
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fed's buying program and explained friday why he doesn't support an even fast. drawdown now here's a quote we juiced the trading and risk markets so extensively that they became somewhat addicted to our commendation having done so the prudent course of action and best way to prevent the onset of market seizure is to gradually reduce and eventually eliminate the flow of excess liquidity that we have been supplying however with inflation well below the fed's two percent target there isn't much urgency to act on rates overwhelms the members agree interest rates currently pegged pretty much close to zero percent won't be increased until sometime in two thousand and fifteen fisher said quote there is abundant liquidity to finance economic expansion and the f o m c will assure that it remains affordable as long as the prospect of inflation rising above its two percent target remains in abeyance now while the fed strives to achieve its low interest rates low inflation it doesn't want the economy to enter a period of deflation because that sets off destabilizing forces which have
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seriously negative consequences now back in two thousand and two the monster was the same then fed chairman alan greenspan called the threat of deflation quote pretty scary and subsequent chairman ben bernanke he laid out a playbook on making sure it doesn't happen here a playbook he later implemented during the financial crisis what's really really scary about this though is that we're back here all over again we have the exact same deflation worryin policy response that ended with the housing crisis in the first place except of course this time the policy response has been even more aggressive so it feels like deja vu that's because it is. the buy low sell high that's how you make money in the market and so now of course
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knowing when to buy low and when to sell high. it is a lot harder than it sounds as if the complexity is our own psychological behavior now many economists assume their models assume in their models that economic actors act rationally but experts in psychology now how irrational beliefs and bias these can negatively affect financial decisions and consequently lose you money michael mauboussin is managing director and head of global financial strategies at credit suisse he also author of the book think twice harnessing the power of counter intuition which looks at how our biases might affect our financial decisions and offers ways to avoid these mistakes now michael welcome first and foremost michael it's interesting economics often assumes rational expectations but when you look at how people actually make financial decisions they have biases and use all sorts of mental shortcuts that can be deadly so you get a lot about this so what is a heuristic here mystic factors and biases that basically you see and you need to
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watch for when making your decisions and writing what you write exactly will first of all great to be with you aaron you know the the bottom line is we often work through life with what you call heuristics which is a fancy way of saying rules of thumb so we have ways of sort of shortcuts to figure out things and what's great about heuristics is they are quick but what's problematic about them is they often have blind spots or shortcomings so the key is to be aware of those biases and tried to to manage those so there are bunch of them out just give you one that's a sort of famous one is over confidence is we tend to be overconfident about our standing of the future and as a consequence for example who people think about the future they projected to the future they tend to project ranges that are vastly too narrow and they just don't see all the possible outcomes that are out there so there are a slew of these these types of biases that come out of these heuristics we all use her wrist it's a natural thing but again we're not always aware of the biases that come along with it michael jim many anecdotes are examples of how overconfidence hurts investors.
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well there's a great example and this is actually an interesting one with gender erin so there are some academics to study trading accounts of both men and women and what they found was the stocks that the men and women picked were basically the same but men delivered much lower returns than the women did primarily because they traded a lot more often primarily because they were very confident that they would need new is going on so there's a very direct costs associated with overconfidence partygoer think they know what's going on what they do and as a consequence it's still a theory as for their own results michael i don't want to be overconfident but that sounds amazing. now can you tell me about confirmation bias and how that hurts investment returns absolutely so it's interesting you know most of us years prior view of how the world's going to work so you have a point of view on how things are going for a company or for the economy or for the market in general and the new information comes in and what you're supposed to do least by the books is to update your
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beliefs based on what the new information provides for it however this is monster brick wall called confirmation bias which basically says what we prefer to do is sort of stick to our old point of view and not update our point of view so so the reality is whatever decision you've made whether you're bullish or bearish or what have you you tend to want to find things that confirm your point of view and you sort of discount or disconfirm things that don't support your point of view so as a consequence we just don't update our beliefs as rapidly and as correctly as we should at least based on theories that's a big issues that people take one side or another of a particular debate and they're just very slow to move off those positions if they ever do that's so interesting to me i want to ask you do you think that loss aversion is a big deal and how investors perform or is it less important here a stick. well i missed the first part of the do you think that last a lot has been is yes very yeah so sorry about that yes so first of all let's explain what that is loss aversion says for a dollar gain
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a dollar loss which are obviously symmetrical people suffer twice as much from the loss as they enjoy the gain so there are some very specific ways it manifests so for example if you buy a stock you typically don't want to suffer all you want to have a loss on it also people hold on to their losers and you'll sell their winners but they'll hold other losers too long because they don't want to to suffer from that loss so that's one example the second thing is this loss aversion coefficient that to the one i just talked about turns out that's different for different people which is not too surprising but it's also different for each of us and so if you've just gone through a period of lots of losses say two thousand and eight into two thousand and nine you become really loss of earth's really risk averse and as a consequence even if things are looking really attractive you don't want to participate likewise if you've been on a winning streak markets are up you're doing great you're feeling great you're going to let your guard down and really want to participate you said at the outset sort of buying high selling low that loss aversion probably contributes to that behavior now do you have
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a lot of fund managers missed out in loss aversion in two thousand and nine. well you know the way to think about that is if you just did the math of the markets you know when the s. and p. for example the united states is at six seventy with probably eighty five or ninety dollars of earnings power the math of that was not very challenging however we've just gone through this incredibly to mulch us an incredibly painful period so as a consequence i think it is yeah it's up to the case of people's loss aversion coefficients went through the roof and they were just really scared now part of it is look at me and there was some scenarios under which the things continued to be bad what happened may not have been the only thing that could have happened but i have there's no question after any difficult period and by the way it's symmetrical after a really great period people want to keep participating on the upside so yeah i think for sure it's hard to separate your emotions from the basic math of the markets and from the math of the investments no doubt and that's it's most pronounced of course by definition at the extremes michael who are the finance
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researchers doing investment research but you listen to them as you personally and and what are they saying about the most relevant and what is most relevant for investors yes so listen i mean i think there are a couple guys who are really set it set themselves apart as being really great in their contributions the first is clearly danny kahneman who is a psychologist but won the nobel prize in economics in two thousand and two his book is called thinking fast and slow and i think is a really a must read for investors or really anybody that makes decisions day in day out one who's an economist trained as an economist who's done much more across a lot of psychology is richard thaler at the university of chicago and sailors' just done just a huge body of really influential and very valuable work in getting people to think about these issues and more correctly so those are probably maybe maybe the grandfather in the father behavioral finance economy and richard thaler good to now and i want to ask you is the investing world in the investing world we hear a lot about vision first of all what is meaner this and secondly from a behavioral aspect why does the phenomenon exist. yes a reversion to the mean is
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a very specific idea that says that outcomes that are far from average will be followed by outcomes with an expected value closer to the average rate so that's technique so if you you know if you did really well in your math test and you're an average student you are expected by your next test is going to be something closer to your core ability it's really tricky because for out on a couple levels the first is depending how much luck and how much skill is in the particular activity that defines the rate of reversion to the mean so there are lots of things for example the markets themselves that have very low correlations for sometimes very high correlations for some types of people have a very difficult time sorting out how rapidly things will revert to the mean so as a consequence we tend to think that you know good things go on forever bad things go on forever and we don't take into consideration the fact that things over time most things over time tend to me in reverse so it's a really subtle concept it's a really tricky concept but obviously very vital in the world of investing and certainly in the world of business as well michael we have to take
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a quick break but please don't go anywhere and you out there in t.v. land down go anywhere because when we come back michael will be here with more now he's telling us about her mentality and how it can be a driving factor in the asset markets also interesting that today's big deal edward harrison and i are discussing income inequality globalization and wage stagnation but before we go here are a look at some your closing numbers the bell stick around. nothing has been this complex by the military since world war two. this is quite frankly in historical terms the berlin airlift in reverse. order some seven or seven go down
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a block or some ship. on take off cause you're going to become stable you're talking really billions of dollars to move billions of dollars worth of equipment what for if you use the pulse no longer worth your stress. this was in the washington well it's a miss luna is being sued to add to the list of numbers among the many candidates for the office even more in addition to that actually back to a doesn't do too much for ad revenue my own tech after culture giant teeth on a seventy six year old american farmer in eastern india fallout do you think this is going to create for the cia do you think this is what's triggering a great america is the largest economy in the world it's also the largest debtor nation in the history of the world breaking the set is mostly about alternatives to the status quo but what might be real alternatives to the points on the working toward the american dream the next they were just trying to survive it's time for
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americans and lawmakers are forced to wake up and start talking about the real causes a problem. well found that more now with michael and michael i just want to dive right in so first and foremost ask what is a p. e. ratio and how can you use it appropriately to measure whether a stock is well bout you. right well definition a.p. multiples of price the stock divided by earnings typically the next twelve months earnings people use and it's a it's basically a proxy or we talked about before a shorthand for understanding how much of the expectations are built into the current stock price the tricky thing is really theoretically the value of a company is the present value that cash flows so this is one of those short hands that tries to give us some sense of what that answer looks like again like
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a lot of other shorthand it's got a number of biases and blindspots to be aware of but that's basically what the concept is and all things being equal lower p.'s mean lower expectations higher p.s. higher expectations now i want to tell you about this my producer edward harrison now he claims that he did a business school class a very long day and he was really impressed when you prove the wisdom of crowds using a simple jar of pennies and it's a guessing game i guess so can you tell me a little bit about the wisdom of crowds in this game because he would give me a sneak peek of it absolutely hide edward for me by the way. what we do in the very first class is a day of classes it's actually jar of jelly beans which is same concept and and literally pass it around to the students and i get a little prize for the best guess and i say hey guess somebody beans are in the jar and you know you do this you typically get about fifty or sixty guesses and what we find very consistently is the average students if you picked any random student they would be off by about fifty percent but if you take the average of everybody's
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guess they're off anywhere between one and three percent it's just this remarkable result year in year out that the collective is better than any person within the collective quite consistently and so the reason for that that's so interesting of course and why i bring this up the very first day of class is that's a very good model to think about how markets work right so no one really knows any information all the information themselves part of me but when we collectively put it together in this thing called price we tend to get a much more accurate view of what's going on in the world so interesting but i want to see what the bubbles you know if the crowd is wise how do we sometimes get markets that seem overvalued. yeah it's a great question so the key is for the wisdom of crowds to work there are three conditions that have to be in place the first is diversity so we need the underlying people participating to have different points of view independents right so that's one the second is properly functioning aggregation so all the information is coming together for me that was in edwards' class that was me counting or tabulating people's guesses but in markets of course they're just exchanges and the
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third is incentives which is rewards for being right and penalties for being wrong and so when those three things are in place you pretty much get the wisdom of crowds now to your point really interesting booms and bumps is when one or more of those conditions are violated by far the most likely to be violated is diversity is rather than us thinking independently or in different ways we correlate our behaviors we all start to think things are going to go to the to the moon we all think things going to go sour forever and it's those extremes that lead to these you know the madness of crowds so so both the wisdom of crowds or or the complex systems approach explains both the wisdom of crowds why markets are really typically tough to beat but also why they periodic we go to haywire all fits under the same tent i think quite comfortably michael there is a classic temptation to be a closet momentum investor one who runs and hides when stocks stocks fall and chases stocks when they rise but how much is herd mentality a factor in driving asset markets. well it's
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a very big factor i mean we know that when you look at factors that momentum is actually a very sick substantial one and one that's been very persistent momentum itself as a trading strategy tends to be very short term oriented but these are really difficult things right i mean there are trading strategies that are built slowly off a momentum right so they're trend following strategies but they have very specific and sort of tough rules about when you should get out of positions when should let them run and so forth and you really do have to stick to the discipline quite closely to have any chance of success i think for the rest of us you know people tend to go with what's going well and but they don't really have discipline in three points negs or exit points so the difficult as it is a consequence have a lot of difficulty actually playing these things so it's a momentum is very tricky to play but clearly it's very tempting especially because you get these big moves one way or another which which lead to lots of profits and losses now on the closet momentum investor how do you know that the fund manager you're investing with got to where he is because of his skill and not just because
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of luck. yeah that was a huge question aaron and i think that the fact is because markets are very competitive it means luck actually does play a very big role in the outcomes that we see my answer to that would be to focus as much as you possibly can on your portfolio managers process what is he or she doing in terms of how they're making their decisions how they're approaching their problems with an understanding that a quality process will lead to good outcomes over time but i put a sole focus on outcomes you really can't see exactly how they're making their decisions so maybe i could use a really simple metaphor and you could go for example to the casino and play your cards really intelligently and lose in the short run the same blackjack where you can play them foolishly and when what we want is for you to play your cards intelligently so you have the best chance of success over time so for me the answer to your question which is a really big one is as much as possible try to get after that process and understand how people are making decisions versus only their outcomes i think
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that's extremely good and valuable but i want to ask you you know a lot of people believe that it's getting harder and harder to beat the market so can do less actually making more money. yeah well but the big part of the answer is yes there are two aspects to that answer though one is a lot of activity typically has with it costs right so when you're moving from one manage to another you're trading a lot you're incurring cost in those costs are going to be eating into your returns so it's often the case that you're making a decision or an asset allocation and sitting for the most part on your hands and doing very little like warren buffett has talked about this over the years can be can be a very good strategy so that you know that i think that does make a lot of sense for a lot of people little less activity than than and then by the way it's actually if it goes against many of our own senses because in most things in life hard work gets you results right so the harder you work the more you get out of it investing is not quite like that working hard in and of itself by trading or activity doesn't really yield good results it's really making quality decisions and for the most
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part being patient and calm through most environments sounds like you just have to work hard to chill out and jump to that good that's not bad i now want to talk about this there was a recent article on behavioral finance and it features tom howard of i think invest and he's also a finance professor whose research showed active managers actually beat indices on their conviction stock picks now how are things diversification is overrated and says the data shows this so what do you make of the concept of diversification as di worse occasion. yeah super interesting question look i mean the fact is that just when you work out the math if you truly believe you have edge so you have a situation where you know more than the market or you think the markets miss price something less diversification some more concentration less diversification makes sense right and that's true by the way anything whether it's playing blackjack or poker hand or what have you any kind of business investment that basic principle certainly holds true now the challenges for most of us as we go through life is we
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don't really find ourselves in those situations we don't have one hundred percent of our time to allocate to find the investment opportunities we're playing at the card table or what have you so as a consequence we're just not in that same situation to be able to concentrate so so the answer is if you could be one of those people i could find the situations that makes enormous amounts of sense but for the rest of us probably some some idea of diversification which precludes us from having to find those situations probably is the most sensible course and especially if you can diversify with you know with a relatively low cost so it depends a little bit on where you are in terms of the spectrum of your ability to find opportunities as to how to best answer that question michael i wish we had more time but we have to go i want to thank you so much this is incredibly interesting stuff and i have to have you back on it very soon now it was like almost as an author of think twice harnessing the power of counter intuition time now for today's big deal.
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big deal time with my partner in crime mr edward harrison and also a former student. mr obama said now they were talking about income inequality wage stagnation and globalization but the question is wages on the topic of wait say wage stagnation now a working paper by branko milanovic of the world bank took a look at the most recent wave of globalization over the past twenty five years to see who the winners and losers are in terms of global income inequality. now his findings tell the story of rising incomes from the very top but also for the emerging global middle class now they were jets globally the rich are only getting richer but people in the fiftieth and sixtieth percentiles of global income distribution saw serious gains as well so edward we have a graph here that i think is going to kind of clarify what we're talking about now can you explain what we're looking at here so basically what you're looking at on the axe is going up and the percentage gain that they made over
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a twenty year period from one thousand nine hundred to two thousand and eight and then going across what you see as the different percentiles going from zero to one hundred percent so the numbers that are really large there are in that fifty to sixty percent of that you saw and then also when you talked about the very rich again in the ninety eight to one hundred percent but the numbers are kind a low in fact they were negative in the area around the eightieth percentile and they're very low you know for the very poorest people in the world this is interesting because basically this graph is saying that stagnation incomes in defend the developed world are having helped are helping to raise basically incomes in the developed world it's kind of interesting. in that he was in the middle of the emerging market of the developed world is helping the developing world now can you explain how this happened is it basically because companies have shipped jobs in manufacturing to emerging markets overseas things like that we see that's the thing is we can only look at the data we can't really know what the actual you know
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what's the process behind the data we can only interpret the data but you know my own personal interpretation of this is is that we are seeing a relative stagnation because in the developed economies people who were in middle class jobs in manufacturing and so forth are now moving up the ladder into jobs that are paying more money at the same time you know a lot of the manufacturing processes have moved overseas and those. for therefore making more money you could look at it as you know there are lower prices in developed economies like the united states for manufactured goods that are manufactured or broad but at the same time there's just not enough movement of the skill for the people who have been displaced in places like the united states western europe so that they actually are seen income gains as well so we can't make a blanket statement that our losses there again or can we we can't make that blanket statement based upon the data we can say that it seems that it's saying
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that. causation in correlation when you see you do. is a correlation but you can't say that one causes the other so it's true that you know you have maximum gain for the fifty and sixty if the ninety or two hundred percent but you can't say that that's actually causing great percentage of the good it's just that they're happening at the same to us it's a coincidence if you or something like that now is one part of the story and this gets lost in the domestic economic battles in the developed world is that the world outside of the western world has a much smaller share of global wealth relative to population now check out this graph this is from a study published in two thousand and seven so the numbers are a bit dated we want to give that disclosure but it gives you a point of reference here now the green bar shows the percentage of population while the great bar which is the amount of global wealth that receives a long story short places with the most population have a much smaller share of global wealth and these are the places that are seen
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increases in wages so what is your take on the situation do you think this means that workers should expect rising wages in the u.s. in the future or near future any time interesting twist i would say it has a lot to do with why we have things like increasing oil prices because all the people in those economies that are getting richer they are actually consuming more resources and as a result we're seeing a uptick in demand and that when you go back to one of our previous conversations that's the case yeah i mean it makes a lot of sense. i wish i had more time to have more questions but we have to come back to the subject and that's all from now you can see all segments considered in today's show on you tube at you tube dot com sussman but start to really love hearing from you suppose check out our facebook page facebook dot com slash boom bust our teeth please tweet us at our need at edward and it's from all of us there have been but thank you for watching we'll see you next time but i.
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coming up on our t.v. and our t. employee covering the un rest in ukraine is airlifted out of the country three days after being shot we'll have an update on his condition from moscow ahead. millions of dollars on capitol hill are earmarked for getting out. the money will be reportedly used to create a new secret prison with in the detention camp more on that coming up. and the head of u.s. intelligence issues a gag order for intel employees blocking them from citing news reports and sources based on leaks more on that later in the show. it's monday may twelfth five pm in washington d.c. on wednesday.


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