Skip to main content

tv   The Big Picture With Thom Hartmann  RT  September 1, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT

7:00 pm
remembering beslan russia marks ten years since the terrorist siege of a school which killed more than three hundred mostly children left the community forever scarred we hear from survivors of the tragedy. british prime minister david cameron outlines his vision on how the u.k. should deal with the international threat posed by homegrown terrorists fighting for the islamic state. trains to find eastern regions present the kiev government with a list of the money offers for the two conflicting sides to make peace. but. on the resistance pushes back partially rocking the government's military in the east
7:01 pm
with more than a thousand soldiers killed wounded or taken prisoner by government force it's. just on three am this choose the morning here in moscow welcome to our team international my name's o'neill ten years ago on what was supposed to be the first day of school began a terrifying ordeal for the small town of beslan in southern russia the world watched horrified as chechen militants seize school number one taking a thousand people hostage mostly children on their parents for survivors and families there the pain has not diminished.
7:02 pm
early morning on the first of september with a mood of excitement and anticipation young families arrive for the start of the new term but terrorists stormed the school killing eighteen people in the process they laid explosives around the building on the second day the authorities managed to convince the attackers to release mothers with babies at around one pm on the third day some of the terrorists explosives went off several hostages tried to escape only for the gunmen to open fire on them a few minutes later russian special forces moved in the number of victims of the siege was high three hundred and thirty four innocent civilians died and more than eight hundred were injured in the treasure reports from beslan that the people remember those who were lost. while the crowds and the people may come and go from this tragic site the names will always remain of more than three hundred innocents who lost their lives during the tragic school siege in
7:03 pm
baseline those three hundred people a small fraction of more than a thousand people who were trapped inside the school gym during that three day long attack now the gym itself is she in this metal coating this. one and the more you do because the architect has been commissioned to sanctify the interior remains essential unchanged from what it was ten years ago that the horrific attack happened based on school number one for example the floor where mourners have been laying carnations still has the damage from the attack to the walls still bare the pockmarks from the bullet holes where the machine guns fired their rounds into the walls several things have changed here in the gym for example has crossed this altar that has been set up in the center and look at many many hundreds of flowers that have been laid here by the mourners during the horrific attack the militants said that everybody needed to undergo
7:04 pm
a fast they were denied food and water to the children many of whom stripped down to their underwear because the heat was so sweltering it was the only way to stay cool here mourners are bringing bottles of water in order to give them comfort in the great we spoke with several people who survived the tragedy here's the story of two of them they survived against all law and lead us about about and her two daughters lived through that base long school siege they were among more than a thousand children staff and parents held hostage by heavily armed chechen extremists when a leader and her daughter immediate return for this special commemoration the memories came flooding back. to bush right. now if you will given that it was that the diet. that charted a coffin you sure will move them when it gets to be i think i said it's a large city and some. terrorist took the hostages to the gym
7:05 pm
a little later her mother voluntarily entered the building to be with her daughter's complaint so that when you know excluded to vote with nasty to the way the government your logic is causing all muslim youth to die was criminal to not must not see him up to the income. of telmarc them don't we have the figures are you actually do you lie about when you cover news knowledge she got. yes do you demand she get just because i do see up in my goal of some of the mamas . they stayed in that gym with her father school principal tara can sit down through most of the fifty two hour ordeal to read even a key cheat lie cheat so much them i didn't keep them standpoint she didn't. i knew each other that she did do it just b.c. damn simplifies the point about suddenly snuggle up we point is that you've lost our cans about of a me just grandfather didn't survive i see the oh it's all black when you did the it was good throw show didn't you. years later the blood is gone but the pain
7:06 pm
remains while the baseline school gym has been cleaned up and turned into a memorial for the victims the school hallways remain virtually untouched since that terrible attack ten years ago the walls still bear the scars of the bullet holes that run from the floor up to the ceiling. even great for their own deaths to end their suffering but she and her daughters made it through and haven't lost their faith in the future i mean it says the nightmare inspired her to help others and she's studying to become a doctor. more than three hundred candles lining the ground in beslan and close to perfect symmetry set up outside of the gym where so many people innocent people lost their lives people have brought their children young children in order to see what's going on here and i think it's interesting that these are children who in many cases are far too young to understand probably the full impact of what went on
7:07 pm
here. we will be bringing you more coverage of the memorial events over the next two days all sorts he speaks to the only terrorists who have survived the beslan atrocity you can hear what he had to say and an hour and a half here on r.t. international well this is this is little david i'm going to. need to know which conditions to the east it's used to teach them is that you. need to. figure out what in the east and and there isn't just the legal definition of the in situ instance and move the chimney and move into the. most neutral and. that niche of that it will. britain's prime minister has shared his vision on how the u.k.
7:08 pm
should deal with the threat posed by islamic state the terrorist group currently running paging across iraq and syria or the listened in to his speech in parliament it appears that it's all about given great social forces and the police more power as david cameron outlined his strategy and getting this law mixed state and he believes to prevent us from going abroad to travel alongside extremists and to prevent those who already have common back he would have to give more powers to police officers at the border to confiscate the passports and in case the court decides to challenge him that he's considering create a new legislation to give the parliament the power to decide that over the courts next he wants british authorities to have enhanced the use of exclusion zones or relocation powers this is also something that will be debated and in general david cameron is responding to increased years in the country over the widespread reach that the islamic state has according to a recent poll by some sixty seven percent of brits of boards and five the u.k.
7:09 pm
government. confiscate passports of those who are suspected to be members of the islamic states and of course their fears are further exacerbated over the of course the slaughter of soldier and rigby in london the beheading of american journalist vice expected british jihad this and in fact five hundred of them have already known to have traveled to iraq and syria around half of them are already back so the danger and the threat is real and the brits here feel it and the poll of course shows the results of that and of course the latest revelation the fact that one of the islamic states key financier's was in fact the director of a muslim faith school right here in the u.k. in the city of birmingham and the fears are shared by brits are also shared by other european citizens and the leaders of those countries as you can see on your screen everyone is saying that the islamic state poses a direct threat to every single european country in earlier we heard from political
7:10 pm
and social commentator mohammad ansari who thinks the u.k. should have seen the threat coming a long time ago. firstly the fact that we have this return of control orders and tea claims i think but before you can we get to that stage people are wondering how when somebody is returning from syria or from the middle east are we going to assess whether they've been involved in any kind of radicalization any kind of terrorism or have in fact been fighting as you how do you think the problem has been that our. policy on counter radicalization counter extremism has sensibly failed failed to intercept the failed around seven seven is continued to fail seeing people who are under surveillance going overseas to fight as they see it in an ideological than an intellectual or spiritual you have overseas so we have the minutes have a domestic policy which is centered around the home office which is mired in control of c ok let's move on and bring you up to date on ukraine and what could
7:11 pm
become a road map for peace the antigovernment leaders in the donetsk and lugansk regions have said arthur stance on establishing ties with kiev and the conditions that need to be knit but there are still major obstacles ahead representatives of the self-proclaimed donetsk people's republic say kiev has already refused a proposal from both sides to stop using heavy artillery and warplanes in the conflict talks were held in minsk on sunday paula sleeker with more on what was discussed. representatives of the donetsk going to ganske republics have been meeting with representatives of the king of authorities in the belorussian capital this is the first time that they has been such a concerted effort to reach some kind of negotiated settlement between the two sides but we are being told not to expect a major breakthrough and so he not expected any time soon what this really is is an opportunity if you like for the two sides to size one another up and see in what areas they can cooperate now the team from new guns candidates put forward several
7:12 pm
demands some of these include ending the military operation that is a direct call to the kiev government they're also asking for special economic and political status for the lugansk and in its greetings and at the same time for the russian language to be granted official status of course this is the dominant language in this part of ukraine in return they are offering to begin the process of restoring ties with kiev they looking at he creation of a shared security area and also for economic cultural political and social cop aeration now these talks come as fighting on the ground intensifies one of the flashpoints here in the past few days has been the town of you know vice square the ukrainian army was surrounded by anti-government fighters it was forced to surrender and lay down its weapons we traveled to the front line. the sound of victory after a week of did these battles in a vise is back in the hands of the anti-government fighters of our skees now
7:13 pm
completely under our control there will be no mercy i will never forgive them for destroying our cities. the smell of death still hangs over the battlefield. one is brute and the other one of sword to pieces they're left them on the field nobody is asking for them the spoils of victory made it out we put down their weapons before they did the resistance stronger the result is that they've suffered to come on to give me is in high spirits at headquarters he congratulates his men. about four thousand eight hundred soldiers attacked us this month not more than two hundred of them survived all of their combats quitman has been destroyed and who want to fight us off this. the thirty four year old commander hasn't had a day off since fighting began five months ago we won that fight we stood up for our city even when we had lost twenty percent of the city in four days we took it
7:14 pm
back. and in the process squashed the my role of the ukrainian army sending thousands to the streets of kiev to demonstrate against the generals who they say abandoned and betrayed their own men at the end of a hard day of fighting this is where the soldiers come to hang up their guns to renew their energy and to warn the mothers of ukrainian soldiers what their sons are up against. r t l advice eastern ukraine. and to government forces in eastern ukraine are on the offensive and it's becoming a part intact kiev's military operation there is flying during the area shown in orange right here is now reportedly under the control of local militias but the red circles here here and here are areas where hundreds of ukrainian government troops have been surrounded the encirclement near the town of vice that paula reported on is seen here with and to government forces providing accu military encourage or to
7:15 pm
a lot of soldiers to leave peacefully kiev though has forbidden any of its troops from surrendering nevertheless at least two hundred have chosen to do so saying. they've been abandoned by their superiors and left to die without the help of reinforcements as for the humanitarian situation russian aid is being handed out in cities and towns across eastern ukraine special trucks organized by local forces are ferrying supplies. artist by the fighting the humanitarian crisis is also figuring in talks between kiev on the east that have begun in belarus the vice premier of the so-called donetsk people's republic who is one of the negotiators has spoken about conditions back home. with humanitarian situation is very difficult is this really needed. transportation and logistics but they must be supplied preemptively so as the wood complications. and just all not the second round of talks is set for september the fifth but already some progress has been
7:16 pm
made regarding prisoner swaps we'll be of course keeping you updated on any breakthroughs that happened in the better russian capital more news on the way including why the e.u. is pulling the plug on powerful vacuum cleaner stay with us. differently here in syria now many of the members of congress the both parties have gone to syria in recent months as. a reformer mr president we choose deedes time for him to get. stability and peace to syria is going to be the step.
7:17 pm
along the way and as we saw after world war one a bunch of european countries just jump in the middle east and draw lines all over the map and say oh these are the new countries we don't care about the history culture well last or twenty fourth and you end up with islamic state or isis. welcome back to stone's capital is in the grip of political turmoil on sunday police force back a crowd of protesters attempting to storm a government complex in islamabad it follows two weeks of mass opposition rallies
7:18 pm
calling for the prime minister's resignation or we spoke to a pakistan affairs expert about what's behind the unrest. pushing to see to two to repeat it military intervention bureaucratic structure. due to corruption in the political and civil and military group proceed to doing pretty good stringent screening to develop and flourish and that has actually we couldn't do pretty practices what we see in the recent days that is actually a manifestation of people so that of the confidence in democratic practices of a newly a recently more recently elected government as has been put into such as to situation which would actually do any good to the democratic situation too quickly this is in pakistan rather made fast to military intervention so here is the reason warning sign didn't use a lot of concern to own your own government to be able to sustain that. for decades
7:19 pm
the u.s. has been spending hundreds of billions of dollars on its nuclear arsenal with a spate of scandal surrounding the units responsible for the thousands of warheads on the aging infrastructure questions are being asked over the security of the world's deadliest weapons guy in a church account explains. in a field where there is no room for error a series of scandals is haunting the management of land based nuclear missiles earlier this year ninety one officers were implicated in a test cheating scandal it's twenty percent of all officers who were in charge of some of their says they had leased weapons the air force removed the entire chain of command at the base where it happened on vessel getting those missile as personal cell phones as part of a drug investigation or say agents found test material on investigations of drug possession by missile officers also made headlines and there was more this week the
7:20 pm
air force says the entire wing failed a safety and security inspection u.s. led based missile facility. failed safety and security inspection several times in recent years and you know the air force does not reveal specifics of the failures and insists that the weapons are safe but not everyone is it as reports about a security breach continue to come in it was one year ago that two nuclear officers were actually breaking security rules because they left an underground command center blast door open that's where you get in actually set off the nukes one of the officers actually fell asleep when c.b.s. crew traveled to one of three lead based missile sites in the u.s. they found aging infrastructure and revealed that the man a woman who oversee some of the world's deadliest weapons have trouble hearing what is being said on their phones. but isn't great about them is it. the hearing or is it that you can't connect when you make
7:21 pm
a call i mean you can hear in the other person in the other end line sometimes you can't dial out which makes it very difficult if you're trying to do your job the obama administration's plans for the u.s. nuclear weapons complex including modernization of bombs and delivery systems will cost the country about three hundred fifty five billion dollars over the next decade but there's something about this story that's important which is that every time the u.s. is about to begin a new cycle of introducing a new generation of nuclear weapons there's always complaints about misconduct faulty weaponry the fact that the united states is legging behind isn't keeping up with world standards and that usually is used as a pretext to accelerate another stage of what was used what used to be called the arms race of course some of the complaints will help the government raise money to modernize its nuclear complex but the scandals also show what a challenge it is just to keep the weapon safe in washington i'm going to check out
7:22 pm
our team. lots of stories constantly being updated on our website as well including the search for a good ship british oil tanker that had been missing for several days instigated by satellite near the u.s. coast on r.t. dot com find out why the vessel with its hundred million dollar cargo has been avoiding detection. also online the north korean government goes ballistic over british t.v. drama focusing on the cliffs of nations a new clear program young young calls it a quote slanderous farce find out why the show is called such anger that's waiting on a website. there is a menace lurking in europe's high schools which brussels green army is the term and to get rid of the high powered vacuum cleaner as of monday europeans are not able to buy vacuums that were not more than sixteen hundred watts to clean their floors and do all the rest that's supposed to help reduce energy usage but critics claim
7:23 pm
that's nonsense because people will have to use less powerful models for longer to get the job done now it's not the only appliance which europe crops have got their eyes on up to thirty other high school gadgets or in the firing line in the coming year from kettles to her dryers well the new spark mixed feelings of public buying an anger among consumers some rushed to the shops to snap up the remaining high powered vacuums but others took aim at lawmakers needlessly poking around people's homes. in one way they're paying atonement to the crazed and and they'd flawed concept of global warming and another they're obviously worried about the fact that actually europe doesn't have enough energy to sustain itself and it's currently having a large argument with russia but really don what this goes down to is the belief amongst the liberal elite in brussels that they know better what the people should be doing and therefore the freedom to clean your home does not become
7:24 pm
a victim of the whole process of brussels is not a nice state trying to run the whole of europe according to a ridiculous few old dictum of economic decay parts or will they go when it comes to the process of capitals hairdryers normal ameena teams that are seen as being perfectly reasonable facets of western society oh they know no bones they will keep going until the point in time when the public says no. there's been another win for the euro skeptics this time a german party has won its first parliament seats following an election in the state of saxony and has its sights in other provinces the alternative for germany group already has seven euro m.p.'s party member hugh bronson explains what his group wants to achieve in brussels. the main issues that our seven representatives in the european parliament want to address of calls over three points one of goals is to secure national sovereignty and to work against the united states of europe
7:25 pm
because the peoples of europe have never been asked if they want to live in a super state stretching from bomb to let's say the border to ukraine. secondly they want to reduce bureaucracy and the spending the uncontrolled spending of taxpayers' money that goes to brussels last but at least they want more democracy more a friend. one of the world's most ambitious gas pipeline projects which will link russia with china got a festive start yesterday remind cost rivals and russia's far east region as construction of the historic network was launched russia's gas pipeline network is expanding to the east now this is the first section of the a brand new power of siberia by applying that will carry the national resource to customers here in russia and all the way to china as well in made moscow and beijing signs a record four hundred billion dollars deal that will bring russian gas to china
7:26 pm
over the next thirty years now you know if you're rated by president vladimir putin the pipeline is said to be complete at the end of twenty eighteen and russia will be ready to export to china the following year now this project is one of many that's been earmarked to further develop russian chinese relations in the energy sector as the economic bonds between the two neighboring nations grows ever stronger. costs are of artsy. let's take a look at some other news making headlines from around the world a suicide bombing in western iraq has tame the lives of twenty two security personnel and fifteen civilians a terrorist drove a bomb laden car into a nine story building used by the police on the army the extremist network of stomach state which has been in control of most of western iraq since january is believed to be behind the attack. in yemen members of a shia minority have flooded the streets of the capital on the third
7:27 pm
a cut i can paint of civil disobedience and of thousands join the rally and some not calling on the government to resign the secret which was excluded from the national unity government wants a stronger political force the rest has caused international alarm prompting the u.n. security council to urge the protesters to deescalate the situation. ok up next here on our t.v. crosstalk debates whether islamic state gains in iraq and syria could push the u.s. into a do stay with us we. want but it's a political issue in this country any time soon but it raises the issue of gun control immediately going to attack us but if there's a. skirmish with some sort of a person twenty five or thirty years of a person they don't see themselves living beyond these young people saying that
7:28 pm
they will not live past twenty or thirty years old victim was still doing some bad stuff to the brother he is yes we don't know what the facts terror. people want him behind or. as you call them to. make jokes like civil war. or congo dealing with get. guns. there's. plenty. plenty. of places tried to. play polo to. play for. the taking every minute. the lead the luck may. oh well.
7:29 pm
like ok. let's say the mole time plays jesus most elite club slaves sometimes for nothing which lead to sleep. to sleep just keep still we can still be just if you see a stage eight look to be. but speech was still. plenty. to play right close to play the first string to live and i think the church. play. an army corps player play an instrument play the
7:30 pm
lead live in the lead role model. live. is a. live . hello and welcome to crossfire for all things considered on people of l. here we go again we're told the islamic state terrorist group is the worst of the worst and has global ambitions the public is being taught slowly but surely to fear the islamic state it would appear washington continues to attempt to shape it can reshape the middle east. to cross-talk the islamic state i'm joined by my guest jobber hasan in london he is
7:31 pm
director of the iraqi association also in london we have joseph willits he is from the council for arab british understanding and in washington we cross to ray locker he is the washington enterprise editor for usa today right gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want ray if i go to you in washington we have the u.s. defense secretary saying the islamic state threat beyond anything we've seen is it really of this magnitude here because we've heard this before about other groups and the march toward go ahead ray in washington. well we have a history of doing that i mean the government as we saw that pre two thousand and three with saddam hussein in iraq saying he had weapons of mass destruction he didn't we invaded anyway and now all of the rest of the world wonders about our credibility however we had an attack on nine eleven thirteen years ago that killed more than three thousand people and nobody wants to be the person in charge in a government who turns a blind eye to something like that
7:32 pm
a potential threat and then comes to regret it later so certainly politically the pressure is on to always take these things seriously and then if they turn out not to be so bad to dial it back this may not be a case where we can dial it back if we keep stepping up the military action ok that's interesting joseph i go to you in london but i mean i suppose if you could just you know the chicken or the egg here of course no politician wants to be held responsible for not being vigilant enough here but if you continue to involve yourself in the affairs of other people very far away you know it's syria you know the free syrian army give them money give them equipment oh well there are two to a religious or too radical for us so they move over to another group with upper equipment our money our training and you know i get the law of unintended consequences i mean of course what ray says is true but that also can justify more military intervention when less intervention is probably the best thing to do go
7:33 pm
ahead joseph in london well i think i think bombing alone would would not be the right idea for cereal for iraq they obviously need to be very clear strategy which there hasn't been that hasn't been for a long long time in syria for the wider region. we have you know we've also getting the argument that somehow you know isis is the new evil and has been failure is kindness for it is in terms of dealing with saddam and that's not forget that you know assad is still barrel bombing. people in aleppo there are still atrocities carrying out documented evidence of war crimes on both sides. obviously you know the fear of this is great and i think this the turning point happens to be i think the beheading of james foley a couple of couple of days ago and it seems that now you know the death of an american journalist is bringing this back in the spotlight and bringing it closer
7:34 pm
to home again just so you know if you have just let me ask you do you think that sun intentionally and i'm not dismissing the suffering of that man and his family and his grieving family but you know it's quite interesting from a p.r. perspective isn't it you have such a spotlight on an american being killed by someone with a british accent which i think needs to be a little bit more investigated as well what i'm saying is it fits really well into this kind of media environment what i think i think with the images of of james foley we have possibly the biggest extremist p.r. coup since nine eleven i think this comparable images that in terms of london's bombings in madrid bombings and also the death of lee rigby the soldier on the streets of london last year. and i think the argument is is that there is a sense that however horrific and gory and extreme the decapitation of james foley is it seems seems strange that only now we're recognizing the plight of iraqis and
7:35 pm
seriously are suffering similar of similar fates that they're at the hands of isis and it does there is a risk a very serious risk that you're sending a message that one american life is more valuable than countless thousands of iraqi and syrian ones in london one of the interesting things is that we look at this ongoing tragedy in syria where no one is faultless when it be time logically speaking to make amends with assad and take on according to the u.s. state department. if defense department the most horrific threat to the world then take on isis together that would be logical but it's not going to happen is it well i don't think so to be practical on this issue especially on the other to prove that there's no way for the west allies to make any peaceable deals with the. assad regime. but the threat is there is
7:36 pm
a growing the should be an immediate option to hold the advances on both sides of the border of iraq on iran syria. ok ray you know it seems to me this is exactly what isis wants they want to take on the big western military giant plane they want to take though and they're just waiting for it because this is what feeds up you know it tracks a lot of people to their followings i mean the f.b.i. and we have other western intelligence agencies having a difficult time estimating how many westerners are actually joining isis right now i mean this is really quite interesting here this is what isis wants it's in the spotlight it's all about they're the purest the baddest the meanest all of the above would be better not to play their game and to back off and see where it's going to go i don't think it's best to back off i mean i think you do that at your own risk i mean clearly this is on stable group with has a very apocalyptic worldview and to let them do whatever they want would be
7:37 pm
a mistake regardless of where you are i mean there are so many dangers there are you know in any of these decisions and i don't think you see the u.s. government rushing to do anything president obama does not want to go into syria he only wants to deal with that if he absolutely has to because the choices are all bad you can go away any take out the islamic state in syria you're helping assad or you may be helping another group but i mean what are your choices ok maybe the ice is just too much intervention too much intervention here joseph you know you know ray is absolutely right because what ever party you hope you're going to help another party that you don't like that's a terrible foreign policy position to be in and you know we've seen this tumultuous change in that region for since the end of the cold war particularly in this century here it's outside mentally the more outside meddling the more situations come up like this. or clearly that there has been a failed failed strategy when it comes to syria and iraq and and again it seems
7:38 pm
that we're only talking about this now. but we you know we can either diminish diminish or stray away from the threat of isis and we cannot stray away from the threat of assad you know i keep reiterating this this point you know that only last year we were talking about chemical attacks in ghouta which was about barrel bombs in aleppo we're talking evidence of eleven thousand people killed under assad and evidence of you know photographic evidence of torture and of course we're seeing evidence of of isis atrocities are seeing crucifixions we're seeing beheadings we're seeing amputations we're seeing this policy of of fear and of course you know when you were talking about the issue of james foley this this image of a of an american being beheaded in such a way is not necessary a new one it's a tried and tested method that al-qaeda have used and there is a discussion now about whether isis is more brutal isis is worse than al qaeda i
7:39 pm
think it's irrelevant i mean isis is not great it's i al-qaeda plus. and they just but they're. and we cannot write of isis simply sometimes as a as a crazy ragtag bunch of lunatics which of course they are but they are very smart and they're they're very effective and they have you know they have done so by building and maintaining and consolidating the concept of a state which al-qaeda and in the franchise of al qaeda did not do and obviously it is tapping into specific iraqi syrian grievances and regional grievances and we cannot underestimate that and there has been failings across the board and and of course bombing alone in what work has to has to be a coalition a an inclusive rate of inclusive group of regional and international powers yeah exactly don't know if i agree with you but you know that you do have same partners you know you the. golf countries saudi arabia i mean where is the funding coming
7:40 pm
from here i mean again you know you they talk out of both sides of their mouth they are afraid of these fundamentalist groups but there are plenty of people in saudi arabia and the gulf countries that are just giving money to these people and and who knows what else here i mean a coalition is nice and find the can you trust your coalition partners go ahead just before we go to the break well and that regardless of that there has has to be this inclusive inclusive approach and this includes russia and iran are who of course of you know have been confronting assad and and there are you know we have to we have to we have to make sure there isn't a super approach because all parties do have a role to play regardless of of the implications and without that there will be no hope of freeing up syria iraq of of its tyrants of various forms jabari in london do you think this is what i've says counseling is that there is so the relationships in alliances in the region are so complex complicated and contradictory even that it's going to be very difficult for the region to deal with
7:41 pm
them all a no no where years. to we think not just soon or a band that. decided to attack people who come for nothing the depth of feeling and the. verse to the. conference and many partners were not meeting in the interest. of the situation special in styria while iraq was different of course the. government which clearly looked to the. brutal regime of saddam but in syria definitely played the very clever way but learned of the. norbu this conflict come ok ok i'm going on this. and i'm going to just we're going to go to a short break enough about. your discussion on the islamic state state.
7:42 pm
police. is. your friend posts a photo from a vacation you can't afford college different. the boss repeats the same old joke of course you like. your ex-girlfriend still pens tear jerking poetry keep. ignore it. we post only what really matters at r.t. to your facebook news feed.
7:43 pm
i marinate joining me. for in-depth impartial and financial commentary contributes and much much. only on bombast and. when we come to talk about addiction to cigarettes we understand quite clearly that there is either smoking or not smoking we believe completely and abstinence. can quite understand why we don't have the same belief for drugs or alcohol to me the only way to productively dependency is to give up drugs altogether. a lot happened when ever so after world war i want
7:44 pm
a bunch of european countries just jump in the middle east and draw a line on the map and say these are the new countries going to care about this recalls or well last august twenty fourth. when islamic state or isis. put it on your home arm and watch it. all the same i think you know.
7:45 pm
pleasure to have you with us here on t.v. today i'm sure. welcome back to cross talk we're all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the threat known as the islamic state. ok ray i'd like to go back to you in washington exactly one year ago there was the big discussion about the gas attacks in and around the. and whether the u.s. was going to attack and that was one year ago i think there are plenty of people in
7:46 pm
washington that would like another shot another pretext to take out that regime and actually try to use it to their advantage when look in dealing with isis what do you think about that i don't think right now that we really the united states government wants to get rid of the assad regime i mean who is going to replace that we've seen in the last year all the things that have happened when you know we've tried to do whatever in syria you have assad he's obviously a bad actor we would like to not have him there you have isis which is i think even worse sten simply have the free syrian army but no one really knows how powerful they are then you have other islamised groups that are are probably between assad and isis in terms of ideology so if you pull out assad what's going to happen i don't think this government wants to do anything to help assad but i don't think that they can look at a future without him in power and realize that it's going to be any better this is
7:47 pm
going to take years if you want to support the free syrian army and hope they both have a kind of capacity. from scuse me to replace assad. you know that might be an option but the vacuum that would be created by knocking out the assad regime right now i think would be a disaster ok i just have a lot of neo cons in in washington over not being logical thinking they would still take the advantage of the situation let's talk about iran because iran is a very important regional player and it's a very stable one it. again odd better bedfellows because if you look at the sunni shia divide i mean the you see how the iranians are helping out. baghdad and you get one of these unintended consequences of the invasion of two thousand and three again because of the animosity between the west and iran that kind of cooperation is going to be quite limited but if it could you know we could get rid of some history and some bad feelings iran could play a very positive role in dealing with isis because they have nothing in common with
7:48 pm
them of course and you know you know isis or of course threat to iran and they're very they're very close to iranian borders and i think we've just we've discussed before in the sense that actually you know iran and iran's involvement with the us in terms of isis in iraq was quite significant in terms of actually sometimes the people of the u.s. so are backing in syria are. fighting against assad who is obviously being you know is being funded in iran and i think you know iran has to be brought to the table iran is part of this inclusive approach towards syria and iraq and of course you have seen iran's iran's moves in iraq maliki was a was a person that the was supported by iran and also largely got rid of by iran and i think that is significant and obviously there are there are plenty of areas of agreement even if even if not in public where the u.s. the u.k.
7:49 pm
and iran can engage and can come work because of the threat the threat is to plenty of us whether whether we be in london new york. washington. at damascus or tear on you know if i can go quickly back to you in washington i can there's no political will for that because logically speaking logically speaking if this is the greatest threat to the world right now then you have to forgive a few things in and forget a few things and you have to deal with people you don't like with iran's one of them again this is an opportunity but because of israel and other lobbies it's not going to happen while the greatest threat in the world continues to scare everybody . well i don't think we can say it's not going to happen it could be happening right now we just don't know pat it will after all we're talking to iran about its nuclear program we're doing it openly i mean when you're talking to people and you don't have to stick to the script about you know all we're all going to talk about the nuclear program you could go off into
7:50 pm
a corner and say what are we can do about isis i mean it's clearly in our interests and obviously if the iranians help with isis we may consider giving them a break somehow on the nuclear program that that's everything you know goes into a somebodies calculations when you're having a negotiation hey if i give up this maybe i'll get that and so would not surprise me at all if there were people who are having those conversations right now but they're not making them public ok if you are in london one of the things i find quite remarkable particularly in the last ten years is that we just go from one war one conflict one sectarian conflict one after another it's almost if if it's pre or gain it just keeps the region boiling until you can get the right outcome you want because we all agree on this program you know you you you're helping some people that the yemeni enemies of some and then the opposite and you actually have these very strange bedfellows is again if this part of the calculation in the west
7:51 pm
particularly washington to see where isis is going to go before you make your final bets and who you're going to back in the region. and so what are puzzling question they have the program with the sun with the support of the. car the comes with the we all know what the car the. again the. zam of come out of the car. to go way to small to extreme brought up to parting. london the clock to the national so-called to the most probable and to believe. we saw a doctor who. the americans on their allies the british as well there had no pause . you know or war or war with saddam's a from power strategy always making. looks like try on out of and on the expenses of the
7:52 pm
people of the region. says should be dealt with immediately and they should be stopped and the only but that will not. advocate them definitely it's a long process. they really want to eradicate them they have to cut off supplies that's not only the money but the pouring of internationals to coming from all over the world even from china where the chalk turns on from the balkans of from europe these are all using the route of most of them are using the route of turkey this can be halted again going back to american policy of well i'm one of millions of iraqis we don't know what they're planning for to war even ok i know that you know that is one of the most interesting things said on this program today and i want to go to j.c. because do they have any idea what they're doing this is what i've been getting at
7:53 pm
for a year is right now do they actually have a plan because when we look at what's being said about a year ago about sarin gas in syria i mean it was just a few seconds away from hitting the button until someone said hey this doesn't make any sense at all and then everybody stood back and said yeah you're right i mean do you have any confidence at all that the policymakers particularly in washington have any idea what they're doing or are they just winging it. i think there is. there is a immense feeling that actually that really they don't know what to do and this is you had also seen the former military figures in the u.k. the other day saying there is no clear strategy and i think again there is this sort of hangover certainly in the u.k. and in the us as well of a hangover by intervention in iraq and that that does dominate any sense of intervention in the region and of course last year in london we had a parliamentary vote which david cameron cameron lost and i think this time if if
7:54 pm
there were to be a vote on intervention in iraq i don't know whether we would it would go through but i think there would be more support for it there are indications certainly in the british public that around forty five percent of people would support british strikes of seymour would more would support u.s. air strikes on isis targets in syria and iraq and this is significant this if increased since the beheading of foley and of course this idea the very real for it bring it closer to home with actually british extremists being involved in syria in iraq and numbers estimates around five hundred i think this this is motivating with the public opinion but also political opinion but whether it is just reactionary in terms of responding to this theory that that isis is creating and obviously there is a justification to the hysteria. but if their reaction is also in part hysterical and
7:55 pm
then there are dangers in a strategy that is dominated by that. you're in washington you're in inside the beltway there i mean how much is obama under pressure to do something as they always say something must be done you know he's got midterm elections up and coming up and you know there is this you know that creeping feeling of mission creep here he has to show that he's doing something. as commander in chief because well let's face it on his presidency and doesn't have too many foreign policy successes and he looks weak again is he going to be doing something that may not necessarily be in the national interest but to make a show for only the election's going to only a few weeks away well there's obviously the pressure from some people who want him to do something i mean primarily those are the same people who supported the invasion of iraq oh evan years ago and i think the verdict on that intervention is clear i mean most americans consider that a mistake even though they didn't like saddam hussein. you know you talk people
7:56 pm
inside washington the elites the political elites they favor some kind of action because that's usually what they do you look at poll numbers from you know polls taken throughout the country overwhelmingly not in favor of intervention in syria don't want to send troops back to iraq maybe air strikes because they think airstrikes are relatively antiseptic at least to the people in the airplanes on the ground. there's not an appetite in the united states for you know a long term commitment of ground troops they don't want to go back into iraq. you know yet they want obama to do something and i think in many cases the best action is to not do anything well you know it doesn't you know the people that want something done they have to make this look so bad but the baddest of the bad that'll help justify some intervention because the show you said there's no appetite for zero obviously. well i mean you have to make them look bad and they're
7:57 pm
doing a great job themselves of making themselves look bad and obviously when you have you know people there killed it's kind of an abstraction you take an american journalist who is there just doing his job and you take him out in the middle of the desert and cut his head off and on the video that you post on law and that gets a lot of people ok then gentlemen it gets a lot of ok we're running out of time many thanks my guests in london and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. in x. time and remember. me see.
7:58 pm
if you will be over the wall piece from. egypt to see that it has some full scoop scoop bruce lee it seems to be. dismissed. as the most will. be from them in years and i. want to say it's a political issue in this country any time soon but it raises the true gun control we can attack us but if there's a. skirmish with a sensible person twenty five or thirty years of a person they don't see. self living beyond these young people say that they will
7:59 pm
not live past twenty five or thirty years. determine the small scale. terror either walking or might. consider. several more. dealing with get it. done. language. we can. sometimes. place mrs shields that is the consensus can. choose the opinions that you. choose the stories that impact your life choose the access to.
8:00 pm
remembering russia marks ten years since the terrorist siege of a school which killed more than three hundred people mostly children and left the community forever scarred we hear from survivors of the tragedy. british prime minister david cameron not lines his vision on how the u.k. should deal with the international threat posed by home grown terrorists fighting the islam state. to find eastern regions present the kiev government with a list of them. for the two conflicts. to make peace. on the resistance plus.

4 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on