tv World Apart With Oxana Boyko RT July 13, 2017 4:29am-5:01am EDT
are you i didn't mean that nobody talks to them or are nobody and writes them to parties i mean there are intellectually isolated but. most of the world's nineteen members of the g twenty have a vision about the needs to deal with carbon dioxide and the question of global warming sort of really quite a long term problem but something where immediate steps are needed and the position of the united states in the current administration is skeptical about that and thinks that it's more important to keep your island gas industry going and indifferent or keep. make the united states into a big oil and gas exporter well i guess i'm just picking up on this award isolation because it's understandable that any given country may have second thoughts about any given issue but it's still participated in discussions and i assume its allies d. try to persuade it one way or another why do we have to bring that isolation term in
because it my view it's almost like a high school day now i'm a green sort of bring you into the group or like you and be ostracized if we don't i mean there is a great deal of this going on at the moment you know i think you could also say for similar reasons that the u.k. is pretty isolated in europe and. the question of being excluded from a group you see prime minister may not going to some european events anymore and being left on the margin of a european events i think in general the world today is a much more fractious place a much more contentious place than it was in the early two thousand well that whole thing about isolating somebody really gained a lot of attention in two thousand and fourteen when president obama famously. proclaimed that he is going to isolate russia and russians at that point and i.
still at this point claiming that it's really counterproductive because it doesn't really matter whether you like your interlocutor or not your have to work with them it's your job to work with them rather than pass moral judgements and it struck me that i think europe is gradually graduating to dob point of view because it seems that angle or merkel as much as she may dislike don't know traum vladimir putin or reject a pair the one is pretty much adopting the same approach issue not i didn't really think it's a question of mrs macro personally disliking anybody but it's a question of suspicion of a certain style of politics and the problem is i think that some countries moving more and more way for a democratic and open debate and moving through it's a much more narrow and much more personal list a regime and the personalistic regime is i think probably months ago because you can really see that i think in these discussions that you simply construct gets an
agreement with the united states for instance by talking to don't. that's not the way the politics works in the united states is not the way the politics has ever worked in the united states well i agree with you professor james but i guess my point is that you cannot get an agreement by not talking to somebody at all even if some of the trends that you have just special specified may be true let's say for example for turkey i wonder if it's actually a good thing that i go america didn't try to pull another brisbane in hamburg because given the tensions between let's say joe money and turkey it wouldn't have made any benefits to the country yeah i would argue yes i agree with you and president other guy who was there in hamburg and he was talking to people you can also see that. there's a considerable opposition to president because. i think it's appropriate about our position is. expressed in that those demands are presented i guess i wouldn't
suddenly be in favor of excluding anybody. the summit to not talking to them but it really is important to make sure that discussions are not just between the top reaches but between societies as a whole now america now has a very unusual president i mean donald trump would step out at any gathering but i think i've seen a number of experts m.p.'s critics suggest that for the first time in in a number of months they they saw him acting presidential at the g twenty summit would you give him credit for that i did he certainly capable of acting presidential a and we've found some movements in the post where many many people a wide range of commentators in the united states have said that those presidential but the problem is that his behavior is really rather inconsistent. there are really very very different messages that come out from day to day so that i think
for that reason they're also it's really important not to just talk with one person but extends the range of the discussion and if you think of how the united states is going to develop in the future what happens in congress what happens and in the media what happens in the civil society is really crucial well. that's true but i think media are also in part responsible for creating the kind of climate but that we are now observing in the united states when you know people across political spectrum have very great difficulty simply communicating one another and i think some of that isolation is if those are playing now into the american domestic politics i wanted to ask you something about the meeting between russia's president putin and. president trump there was a lot of analysis. a lot of sort of. stories about their body language but i
haven't seen as much of a criticism as i would have expected to see the aftermath of that meeting and i find that very interesting moreover just before it i had a chance to interview a former high ranking member of the obama administration and he too as much as he did task agreed that meeting was crucial i might too optimistic in thinking that these russia gates story may be starting to wane when i think it's important that there is this meeting. i think it's important that the presidents of both countries express their views and. strange their analysis i think that did take place but i think also the mood in the united states and the discussion of the events up to the november election last year is still going to go on and in fact this meeting rather than soothing the discussion or ending the discussion has actually inflamed
the program well hopefully that could be contained to the united states because one thing that i noticed is that it seems that europeans are increasingly ready to give up on this story they're increasingly ready to leave it behind them as an evidence of that i would side both germany and france issuing reports suggesting that there was no way they found no evidence of russia's interfering in their electoral system they now need russia to do they have a lifting in syria they're very straightforward that about that at least in the impersonal discussions don't you think that going along with this russia gate obsession is actually playing in into russia's hands by and maybelline this reparation between russia and the old your reach i suspect the kremlin at this point of time craves much more than the rapprochement with washington well i think that's an interesting suggestion. the obsession with russia. it does any good to
anybody really but on the other hand it's an important part of the post. is the suspicion remains that as long as the issues in your plan about you i think it's going to hang is a cloud over u.s. russian relations and it's also going to figure in the story of europe's relations with russia because there were indeed concerns about russian intervention in the french elections i don't think this is a story that is just confined. to the united states i think it's something you know there's a there's a presently a song about suspicious minds and i think what it stunned is is to make west relationships in europe in the united states and in the world as. well my point is that europe in general has many more and much more pressing concerns then you know whatever has been cited by a by russia's critics especially given that there is no evidence i think it is.
getting increasingly difficult to press the same point while you actually have to address very very pressing issues of migration and what have you speaking of reach i want to ask you about something that you wrote about a year ago there was an article in which you suggested that chancellor merkel and president putin embody opposing archetypes of national leadership the former representing openness and the latter defensiveness and i can't help thinking that the current situation in europe i didn't do well in general actually created and operating for the ice in a g. doesn't put didn't need merkel as much as merkel needs putin at this point in time . i'm not quite sure how or i should understand. needing putin i mean of course. we've got these enormous international problems we've got issues in syria we've got issues with migration. issues in ukraine. normal
visitors can really be solved i think with collaboration with the with president putin so it's very very important to this kind of dialogue because and you know that's why i think when you have something that's clouded over by suspicious minds you really need to do your best to clear up those suspicions well professor james what i meant is that there seems to be new lines of disagreement emerging within the e.u. itself all one would be between germany and poland where president trump made a stall on his way to hamburg and he gave their all what was generally perceived as an anti russian speech by a number of analysts also suggested that that may have been meant as a signal to america that don't allow trump has his own options in europe we usually hear about logic be a putin trying to play on the divisions within europe but don't you think that this is something that president trump may have obviously if i think the warsaw visit
was clearly the success for president crumb and he got a very large crowd a very enthusiastic crowd and he played two very particular points in poland's history and potence identity. it certainly i think it is right that poland has a tense relationship with the european union and thinks that some of the things that the european union during our encroaching on polish national identity but poland is obviously also very worried about its security and one of the things the president did to. poland it was to really reaffirm the u.s. commitment to nato into article five of nato and i think that was an important step in times of reassuring poles about the security position ok professor we have to take a very short break now but he will be back in just a few. moment's stated. credit
is one of the basic instruments to drive an economy but it can also lead to tragedy i did it i took a line the whole gist i came to god and meant that the death star game began and it was far enough to fall on. many lives have been broken my excessive debt to the banks got you into trouble on all the big bankers copy. of their income the government the banks but i just didn't think of the the ordinary men and the last morning through the back under done by creditors people see no future bad face and have become ill to job your relationship breaks down you become a casualty is debt a life long trip or is there
a way out of those actually come to bed covering old reichl to ditch bill from so much frustration from what. i've observed events of the past few years and asked myself several times what's going on in my native germany. millions of refugees. u.s. intelligence agencies in discriminately listening in on german citizens of the government. and once again judgment except at least. politicians from various political parties and various independent experts and journalists little effort to understand just how independent germany really is when it comes to decision making. whether it acts on its own national interests ok or is out someone else's will.
about your sudden passing i've only just learnt you worry yourself in taking your last wrong turn. your attitude up to you as we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry for me i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each breath. but then my feeling started to change you talked about more like it was again still some are fond of you those that didn't like to question our arc and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral in the same as one enters the mind it's consumed with death this one quite different i speak to you now because there are no other takers. to claim that
mainstream media has met its make. all of the bonds that were available to trade in the public market vendor socially taken private they've been purchased by the central bank and they've also purchased many stocks they purchased e.t.f. the central bank of switzerland is used by our of our stock the central banks are taking all the publicly traded securities bonds or stocks also market as a way to stealthily bail out all these corporations that are buying back their own cycle solve using that externally cheap money thanks to the low end low interest rates of banks like bank of japan. welcome back to. well department cheryl james professor of history and
international affairs at princeton university professor james let's talk about that meeting between trump and put in that everybody's talking about it lasted just short of two and a half hours off to reach. the real trump was very different from the televised tromp he also complimented him on being a quick thinker which i think kind of contrast with the traditional american media portrayal of trump as a cognitively and temperamentally challenge i want to if you think there is more to trump than meets the eye where i thought president putin's comments were really quite interesting and important but in a sense. nor was a complement to somebody to just to say that they'd react to does a human being good but they were people from just an equestrian i think with the point was more about he's an analytical capacity. but you know whether he could
understand questions or not i mean it's clear that if you're going to go into. any kind of negotiation you need to be open to understand the questions that are being posed but i think it's also interesting just. doesn't seem to have been discussed it was important i think to talk about syria it was important to think about ceasefire in syria it was important obviously also to talk about the election interventions and. the last year and twenty sixteen but i would think when the president of the united states is talking to or the president of the russian federation he would also want to think about the work goes on in ukraine and. how the world in general is responding to a set of economic technical social challenges professor james and it was their first meeting. even having you know that discussion was i think no small
achievement but what's interesting to me is that on the eve of that meeting both of moscow and washington i thought were quite conscious in trying to lower expectations many sources at the kremlin told us that there were no agreements drafted for for the meeting and yet they did manage to agree on the cease fire in southern syria something that i'm absolutely certain of would require some preliminary work between their respective bureaucracies militaries isn't that actually a sign of progress not just the president's having this discussion but that bureaucracies working together each has been to major challenge over the past year or so where there were no absolutely i mean that's important it's important to revive the minsk process and to stabilize eastern ukraine the fighting is increasing because well so who brought these issues and it's really important. there is this high level discussion i completely agree with you on the two you're absolutely right about now
for a number of years to be hurried speculations about the so-called grand bargain that the russia would yield to the united states and syria while the united states would make concessions on the ukraine but it looks now that the opposite may be on the way that the united states may accept the russian plan in syria while russia is already encouraging more active american involvement in ukraine what do you think about that do you think that could work it's not clear whether those negotiations are going we're really right at the beginning of this exercise and the last months of seeing an intensification of fighting in ukraine rather than. pacification serwer the problem ought to be done better and i think you know when you think about the situation in ukraine you need to think about the involvement of russia or obviously but you also need to think about the involvement. of europe and the european union but isn't that also i guess an admission that at this point of time
russia have really has no influence on the ukrainian actors as much as russia put like to be by ukrainian actors i mean be the government in kiev first and foremost obviously it has some leverage with the parties in the breakaway regions but by bringing the united states in a more active role in the you know that there was a new out of lawyer appointed by the trumpet ministration do you think americans would be getting in the way of the europeans because up until recently europeans have been very consistent in keeping the within the normandy format. if you did it is crucial i think to have to have the european engagement and you know it's sort of conflict that is producing. a kind of spillovers into europe. that it's enormously damaging to have this this this this conflict in the ukraine and it's. right that the outside powers have probably limited influence the but
they can create a framework in books and the walk was trying to be done. in the minsk agreement now speaking about ukraine secretary of state tellers and the flu to keep from hamburg for a three hour a visit which included a meeting with the president meeting with his critics and news conference so it was a very very tight schedule especially. as far as the meeting with the president is concerned which only lasted one hour should be read anything into these designed the fact that he was meeting both with brush and i am his critics could that be a sort of signal. washington maybe of trying to sound ticky if given of course all be and to russia rhetoric routine but until russian rhetoric was also given some air there. i mean again there's the question of stabilizing ukraine is a question of providing a long term framework for the viability of ukraine for western ukraine for eastern
ukraine and creating opportunities economic opportunities social opportunities there's growth as those are. the the country is going to be unstable and so you're going to do need to think of this prototype framework and of course you're going for thinking about a visitor for a day or so it's impossible to address all those issues it depends on. very very detail your. very precise interactions on a much lower level the presidential secretaries of state one thing i noticed is that the language the ukrainians deployed with trump and his people isn't very much different from the one they used with president obama the same talk about values and principles your crane belonging to the european family ukraine standing in the way of russia rebuilding its evil empire it said there are do you think that kind of argumentation will work for trying. well i don't think i would want to
associate myself with the evil empire rhetoric i mean i think in. many ways the kind of critical discussion on this issue was way back in in one thousand eight hundred nine. off the coast of motorway. mr gorbachev talked with mr baker and baker talked about western values as gorbachev said not western values the universal values and i think that's exactly right. the idea of basic human rights human dignity. an inclusive society that's not a particularly western vision it's not an american version of the moon it's wrong but embodied in the great post-war decorations and the un declaration of human rights and i do believe that anybody in europe will drop a kind of language well president thank you for saying that because i think that's the argument the russians have also been trying to put forth also that people who
like democracy who appreciate the rule of law who want to leave and transparent society of good governance and so on but if russians are also included in these community of nations who appreciate the virtues of doing democracy don't you think that the ukrainians are going to lose that main geopolitical argument you know i don't i don't see that's a totally. you know it's not really in this case i think an argument so much about the. need to these basic issues that we've been talking but it was also an argument i mean what was work was at stake beginning in the ukrainian discussion there was the association agreements with the european union and there's a trade agreements that are very very technical dry stuff and it's important for ukraine. to be able to participate in the. big european my friend to suggest but i
think you would agree with me that the that drive technical issues have been framed as a martial artist civilizational choice for the ukrainians either with backward russia or with this glorious euro bad that leaves me i guess to my final question because i do want to ask you about the russia's place in europe and the worst of the world in general i was watching your lecture on bracks it did reach you describe how the u.k. sees itself in europe with them but not all of them and that's strikes me rather similar to how russia relates to europe with the west in general but north of the west do you think europe could accept dot kind of sort of framing of russia within its system where it's a very interesting question and in a way were quite a very long discussion because i think there is something peculiar both about britain and about rusher in terms of being on this on the edges of the european geography and one thing is they've got a in both cases
a much more stable state traditionally. most of continental europe where the state boundaries have been shifting all the time so the worry about the state boundaries and about security is really really intense for much of central europe and that's something that i think it a both the british and the russians for great respect about the central european position well professor james this is all we have time for i really appreciate your being here and to our viewers please share your comments in our twitter facebook and you tube pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.
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