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tv   Cross Talk  RT  July 22, 2017 12:00am-12:30am EDT

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the u.s. military says friendly fire accidentally killed forces hits by an airstrike. three israelis some three palestinians lose their lives over a holy site in jerusalem continuing to rise. alarm bells in the west still over the first joint russia china drills in european water is just a day after the u.s. and twenty other states company massive war games send that reach and. we'll see you here on the top of the hour with the latest news but up next cross stuck with peter lavelle tackles america's neo cons and whether they could be
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making a comeback. blowing welcome to crossfire for all things are considered. like a bad cold you can't shake the neo-cons are back and they're back with a vengeance long associated with the extremist wing of the g.o.p. and tied to kind of structured policy failures they have now found themselves being embraced by the democrats and the liberal media it would seem being anti russia track strange bedfellows.
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crosstalk in the return of the neo cons i'm joined by my guest george samuel in new york he is a fellow at the global policy institute of london metropolitan university and author of the book bombs for peace in washington we have michael maloof he is a former senior security policy analyst in the office of the secretary of defense and in toronto we have andrew moran he is a libertarian writer journalist and author of the war on cash right gentlemen cross-like rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate michael let me go to you first in washington i think when i say that the term neo con you know who i'm talking about what group of people i'm talking about particularly since you probably were working with them during the start of the illegal war against iraq their road record their track history is abysmal i mean catastrophic the body count is high the prestigious loss is enormous and the drain on the treasury is almost hard to imagine but michael they're still in business how does a track record to fail you keep you on the major networks on the cable stations and
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on the main opinion pages of the papers of record how does that happen well in this town it's trying to remain relevant and i think that's what the neo cons of done by glomming on with the the hawkish liberals in this town and and the by that i mean they they all supported hillary and certainly because they were very very it wasn't that they were so pro hillary so much as they were anti trump and but hillary spoke their language and this is the help them carry on their mantra and to as i say remain relevant you you saw that with aliant abrams he wanted to be number two at the state department but he was one of those seventy who signed the letter against trump saying he didn't like him it wouldn't support him well that took care of his the number two slot but so they continue to try to get in and so what's the alternative to glom on with the. mainstream media the deep state and this
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is formed a conglomerate of types that are totally against trump it's a mess it's a massive wall and and as you pointed out i was in the pentagon at the time. were running the show there particularly paul wolfowitz. doug feith and it was what it really represented to me was that the pentagon was use that that time to carry out its really foreign policy and that basically what it was all about and that's that and that's what led us into iraq to try to set up a mate massive base there and we saw that then and they're talking about it again they still feel that it's a it's a job that has been left. undone and they want to go back as soon as possible that's why they're there so much against this administration's war approach toward
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the russians you know george you know weigh in on that because you know if these people traditionally were associated with the g.o.p. just as we heard from michael but the interesting thing for me is that this neal conn ideology of you know forced democracy promotion in force regime change around the world there's very little real constituency in the public for this ok i mean it's these are think tanks these are donors these are special interests this is said it very much at high levels but very fringe at the same time there is very there isn't a constituency out there that says we want more war we know that for a fact that isn't the case if you look at the runs of what dr ron paul in two thousand and eight two thousand and twelve and at least the campaign rhetoric that trump ran on he's obviously changed his mind since then but these neo cons don't have a real constituency i think they're a parasite personally go ahead. george or parasite is exactly the right word
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because they do they batten on to of politicians in order to get back into power and you're absolutely right because in every single election it is always the candidate who advocates improve relations with russia no more interventions no more nation building it's every that that's the candidate who wins it wasn't just the trump all of the twenty candidates who ran last year trump was the only one who said i want better relations with russia every single everybody else wanted to. wage war in russia as the first order of business but even going back before that it was obama who who was mocking romney in two thousand and twelve oh you want to go back to the 1980's it was obama who in two thousand and eight was mocking john mccain's belligerence it is
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always the antiwar candidate who prevails and this is the whole point about neocons of the neocon served in is always against democracy because if you leave it to the american people they would have people like anybody else prefers peace to war prefers to be getting on with. domestic affairs or all these interventionism and this is if you go back to the origins of neoconservatives and the very origins was in the nineteenth seventies and it was in the democratic party when he was scoop jackson who who essentially single handedly destroyed what was really his extraordinary historic partnership that the nixon administration was developing with the soviet union and scoop jackson scooped up if i may say so a segment of all the liberals who suddenly became belligerently anti so. yes and i
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saw that attacking richard nixon the. great cold war as being an impression of spock is so we've heard this story before and you let me go to you because i'm glad that george brought that up here because we have you know the neo cons that you know that were in the democratic party then they went over to the republicans now they want to find you know get into strange bedfellows with the democrats again here which is really interesting because if we go back to the soviet era you know the democrats were loathed to say bad things about the soviet union and now we have democrats can only say bad things about russia i mean this really is a paradigm shift is something that we saw maybe like in the in the one nine hundred sixty s. when we had the democrats in the republican shift forces in the in the in the south i mean we're having a complete cross for fertilization but at the same time it seems like the neo con ideology has captured both parties for the most part go ahead andrew in toronto i tend to believe that. added influence of both the republicans democrats for decades
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if you just over if you just look over the last sixteen years alone the democrats have supported the iraq war they change their mind because it became politically expedient to do so they supported the afghan war they were they remain silent when that when obama struck the libyans and hillary clinton led state department created the migrant crisis going to libya and had the regime change coverage of gadhafi and then the democrats celebrated president trump when he was bombing syria so this isn't anything new this isn't just out of nowhere but i would say that there have been we look at this to a bit too negatively at the same time because there are many people within the republican party and the democratic party who are trying to fight back against the neo con persuasion recently congresswoman tulsi gabbert and kentucky senator rand paul the co-sponsored legislation that aims to prevent the u.s. government from funding rebel and terrorist groups which is a step in the right direction it's the top leadership of both parties that are contributing to the. to the rise of the neo cons once again and this is dangerous
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for the american and as well as the russian people because let's say donald trump remains a peaceful candidate what about his successor what if a democrat gets in there and then he wants to wage war against russia has made the democrats have said because moscow supposedly committed attack against russia so we have to look at a also a positively because there is a ron paul movement occurring on occurring right now in capitol hill and we should be pleased about the likes of tulsa gabbert mike lee and rand paul who are fighting . ok you know michael one of the things you know everyone knows on this program my favorite mantra to go after is the media here and i think that's the single biggest difference because when we knew we had scoop jackson around in congress here we had a media that was a lot more even handed here and now we don't have that it all is a matter of i sometimes wonder if the democrats are taking their talking points from the media and not the other way around go ahead well of course they are they
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in fact they they're feeding off of each other you meant you mentioned scoop jackson i richard perle used to work for him and then richard hired me to go to the pentagon so it was because of my investigative reporting background so i have some some touch with that reality over there but there are they will play both sides and and you're seeing today the kagan's the who who is married to victoria nuland she's a real hawkish on the ukraine all of the and along with along with wolfowitz again there it's up it's their desire to want to push that agenda of being anti russian and pro ukraine. and this is getting into the mainstream media and it's also being fed by the deep state so it's it's something that is actually becoming more and more entrenched and more ideological and again. think donald trump wants to
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look at the world today through the prism of reality and not through the prism of ideology which is absolutely contrary to what the neo cons have in mind and i might add one other thing that the neo cons don't really care what the public thinks that's true of their their their their desire to go out and do what we did in iraq or or go after now dot try to set up a false narrative against the russians and maybe have a confrontation or two pair michael in that because we go to let me go to just go to your problem let me go to georgia thirty seconds we're going to break george i think that's a really good point these new cons have absolute contempt for democracy and the american people go ahead george twenty seconds. exactly and that's why this new organization that has been established very recently in the alliance for securing democracy is a complete misnomer because the one thing that people do not want is democracy the moment you will help people to have
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a vote they're going to vote for the candidate who wants peace the candidate once the reconciliation with russia so the last thing you want is to let the people decide they are not on that good point we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the return of the neo-cons state authority. in the u.s. a child can choose another because in school. with a total fizzes as teachers we don't. recruit will says to if the cadet is interested in going in the military but we don't recruit ourselves. the pentagon is funding a program to boost him. in the military. you
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can. still. do but some veterans are willing to children a little more they ask me call of duty is a very popular video. it's playing. call of duty. call of duty. to be told. just need more recruits. here's what people have been saying about reject. the only show i go out of my way to. really go back to. yap is the john oliver of r t america this is a. parent me better than. i see people who have never heard of.
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jack the. president of the world bank a. seriously send us an e-mail. welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter will remind you we're discussing the neo cons within. ok let me go back to andrew in toronto as i've said repeatedly on this program is that i do watch all of the cable news or a great deal of it a lot of it turns my stomach a lot of it makes me very very angry sometimes i find it entertaining and i must admit i mention tucker carlson again i'm sure all three of you gentlemen saw his debate with ralph peters and max boot and i was very pleased to see that finally.
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in a very large audience watching talking about ideas that all of us talk about on a regular basis i think it was new for a lot of their viewers and to how did you take that i mean i thought it was an excellent display of one person i think in a. smart person take on the entire establishment because i've never seen that really done on mainstream television in the u.s. go ahead. yes i was both pleasantly surprised because fox news what a dramatic shift for them where sort of promoting a war they're actually fighting against good pulling into another war but the same time i was also i was also terrified because you have the right likes of ralph peters and max boot who do have some for some reason the self influence of washington and he of ralph peter saying that vladimir putin is literally hitler and you have max boot saying that flattery putin is a left top five adversaries of the united states i wonder why these people still
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have platforms when they have a dia's from decades ago and and what's even worse that they never learn from their mistakes they keep wanting to have wars that never never succeed they want to have a gene changes that cause they create even more havoc in the middle east in the rest of the world so what i am pleased about those interviews where it was that approved how the washing still has a dr strangelove bad this is probably one of the most unpopular guys right now in the united states after that interview at least with tucker carlson oh he did make a mistake supporting the iraq war but he's not a policy maker is not a right he said any any say and public policy but mexico does and that's that's what's concerning to me you know you know michael after i saw that i thought you know well as long as there's stupidity in the world max boot will have somebody to talk with ok because i thought he he acquitted himself so embarrassingly bad ok go ahead michael what was your reaction well my reaction is that that's the nature of tucker carlson's. approach is to confront people with different ideas but
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but what they're boot and and ralph peters represent is something pretty serious that's continuing to rise in the country and that is the democrats the democrats support that montra because they are more hawkish toward russia and as long as the neo cons. spout that language the dems are going to support it and we we see that we're going to be. and this more and more it's going to become even more a fever pitch as the trumpet ministration seeks to try and work with the work with the. putin on on a variety of overarching issues which are very very serious and even when the when the mainstream media and the dems. trounced on trump just because he goes across the table and sits down and has and has a few words with putin you know they've lost it they've totally lost it and this is
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the is steria that we're seeing in this town and it's only going to get worse you know george one of the things i guess that you want to jump in and you go ahead go ahead jump in yeah i'll make one point i want to have a last one question how does people still have jobs like considering their past record. you know their of their their record in iraq the record that got a star the record of syria the record in libya and elsewhere around the world how do they still taken seriously why do they have the odds i haven't that i'm sure i job i have lately i have a theory that i have a theory real quick or they will go to michael to sleep they will probably be better than mine is that the cons because i've said earlier special interest donors they are they take care of these people so they destroy iraq the war continues in afghanistan and they just get an email or a text message on what's up you have a new office and still air condition it's a different neighborhood in washington and we have a new project for you oh maybe ukraine this time don't worry there's no downside
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that's my theory was yours michael. well basically it's along the same line they they go and they create new think tanks for themselves for example the kagan and wolfowitz were all part of this project for the new american century until it was dissolved back in two thousand and seven but but they'll create these entities to remain relevant and they become lobby groups and it's a way of life it's a feeding frenzy it goes it's cyclical it goes on and on and on and then they become sort of the shadow government if you will on the outside so that when they're annoyed when their candidate makes it then they can be tapped and they can move in just like elliot abrams he was almost as i say number two at the state department that was pretty scary in george you know when i was you know i watch that abysmal station called m s m b c i mean what a rag for when it comes to it's not even journalism you know you watch that station
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you learn no no when for me there's no new i watch a whole broad gives no new ways i don't know it's amazing to me you learn anything ok george what you know but what it really worries me here and i've mentioned this on cross before how do you talk back some of the things that have been said over the last eighteen months how do you walk about without looking like a traitor and committing treason against your country i mean this is boxed themselves into a corner you have to continue with the aggression which you know more and more troops on borders you know your turn off those. of these planes turn off their their radars and stuff like down i mean this is an accident waiting to happen i mean it's sleepwalking into disaster because i don't see them ever walking any of this back i mean sure maybe they won't get another country to screw up but they're never going to be held accountable and the stakes are just way too high i mean
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we're not talking about montenegro right now ok go ahead george. yes exactly. they can't walk it back and that's why it is indeed very dangerous because this isn't even a war in vietnam or you know some war in some third world countries this is really a direct confrontation with russia which is a nuclear superpower because this is these confrontations of the taking place now whether it's in the ukraine in the baltics this is very dangerous because they've now really pushed the united states and nato into into a direct fight with russia and this is something new this was even in the cold war as i said you know there was vietnam there was a certain amount of confrontation on libya but it was still quite a long way from russia now the new line of conflict is right on russia's doorstep
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and that is very very dangerous and i think that what the goal of the m.s.m. diseases route is is somehow to topple trump or this we teach land or to maybe demoralize them into ill health then they can get mike pence in there and and then pence which is probably just piss you the full blooded neocon agenda and so on so it is indeed a very very dangerous situation well if that's the scenario you go to andrew in toronto i mean it that it's that kind of scenario is just asinine i mean my goodness it never takes into account national security you know i thought of these people are all about is national security i mean they're the risk to national security and you let me go to you in toronto let's turn it it's go look from the outside in and i can tell you the political elite in russia they were absolutely bewildered by the behavior of the american media and of the political class in the
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deep state because it looks like they're just itching for a conflict and i will be say something that is very. herschel right now but president putin is a man of patience remarkable patience watching all of this going on and i am glad that donald trump decided to have been deserved with putin at the g. twenty i didn't know it was called a meeting until somebody in the media says that but the more talk there is the better there is there should be contact ok and politics my goodness gentlemen it's all about collusion it's about deal making go ahead andrew in toronto as i wrote of my article liberty nation dot com i said for for some that war is an addiction and a drug for others war is a political tool so for the democrats it's a political media it's a political tool for the neo cons it's a drug that they need their next quick fix now what i find funny from the news network or from the washington compost is how they for trade the situation in russia because they act as if russia is the aggressor but it's quite the opposite
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the west is the one who is the aggressor when it comes to russia they have although all the nato troops on the border of russia they helped overthrow the ukrainian government with the with the help of the ngos they had to keep having missiles in the direction of russia and then of course you have the sanctions which are an act of war that self so how can the media keep or training as russia's aggressor when the evidence suggests the contrary just because russia cares about its border or they want to protect their sovereignty somehow there are literally hitler of the next over the next bogeyman that the united states needs to topple so are the propaganda coming from the coersion news now we're going to just it's both comical and frightening michael if you've worked in government at the high levels here let's talk about the american election being hacked whatever that really really means because i don't know i mean you were sitting with people in power that were well aware of how the united states in meddled in elections all around the world
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and that they wouldn't think twice about doing that would they but the even the in for. since that the u.s. democratic system was being meddled with from the outside that's what they find shocking that it's a horrific double standard and it's very it's not even it's not even. thought about in a moral sense because it again this whole ideology is immoral forty second so i give you the last word my friend michael in washington. well i would agree with you on this because their mantra is to. do we we did the very same things we obama in fact tried to alter the elections against netanyahu there was direct interference money paid taxpayer money paid this is what the thing that is worrisome is that the robert kagan xah and the wolfowitz is need to a bad guy namely russia to remain relevant they've pushed the nato narrative to push for expansion into the border areas up to the borders this is been largely
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done at their behest and their and under their pressure and influence and it's not going to go away any time soon and i'm afraid that we're going to see this more and more and it's and it's not going to get well one thing is not going to i would run out of time gentlemen one thing for sure these neo-cons will never be held accountable still again for their behavior many thanks to my guests in washington new york and in toronto and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross titles.
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but i do think that archie is a propaganda arm of the russian government and helps to spread. information that helps advance russia's interests and so that's why i think it's important for people like me to come on if it weren't me would be somebody who was less capable who had maybe not do as good a job presenting the american point of view. i
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think. states. america's. fifteen. new you. know one point five million troops. generations of troops.


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