tv Cross Talk RT August 23, 2017 10:29am-11:01am EDT
to shape out just to come out to it and it. equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground the one. hello and welcome to crossfire where all things are considered i'm teetotal of like a bad cold you can't shake the neo cons are back and they're back with a vengeance long associated with the extremist wing of the g.o.p. and tied to catastrophic policy failures they have now found themselves being embraced by the democrats and the liberal media it would seem being anti russia
attracts strange bedfellows. crosstalk in the return of the neo cons i'm joined by my guest george samuel in new york he is a fellow at the global policy institute of london metropolitan university and author of the book bombs for peace in washington and we have michael maloof he is a former senior security policy analyst in the office of the secretary of defense and in toronto we have andrew moran he is a libertarian writer journalist and author of the war on cash right gentlemen cross-like rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate michael let me go to you first in washington i think when i say that the term neo con you know who i'm talking about what group of people i'm talking about particularly since you probably were working with them during the start of the illegal war against iraq they were their road record their track history is abysmal i mean catastrophic the body count is high the prestigious loss is enormous and the
drain on the treasury is almost hard to imagine but michael they're still in business how does a track record to fail you keep you on the major networks on the cable stations and on the main opinion pages of the papers of record how do. that happen well in this town it's trying to remain relevant and i think that's what the neo cons of done by glomming on with the the hawkish liberals in this town and the by that i mean they they all supported hillary and certainly because they were very very anti trump it wasn't that they were so pro hillary so much as they were anti trump and but hillary spoke their language and this is the help them carry on their mantra and to as i say remain relevant you you saw that with aliant re abrams he wanted to be number two at the state department but he was one of those seventy who signed the letter against trump saying he didn't like him and wouldn't support him well that
took care of his the number two slot but so there they continue to try to get in and so what's the alternative to glom on with the mainstream media that the deep state and this is formed a conglomerate of types that are totally against trump it's a mess it's a massive wall and and as you pointed out i was in the pentagon at the time. were running the show there particularly paul wolfowitz. doug feith and it was what it really represented to me was that the pentagon was use that that time to carry out its reilley foreign policy and that basically what it was all about and that's that and that's what led us into iraq to try to set up a mate massive base there and we saw that then and they're talking about it again
they still feel that it's a it's a job that has been left done and done it and they want to go back as soon as possible that's why they're there so much against this administration's war approach toward the russians you know giorgio weigh in on that because you know if these people traditionally were. associated with the g.o.p. just as we heard from michael but the interesting thing for me is that this neo con ideology of you know force democracy promotion and force regime change around the world there's very little real constituency in the public for this ok i mean it's these are think tanks these are donors these are special interests this is that very much at high levels but very fringe at the same time there is very there isn't a constituency out there that says we want more war we know that for a fact that isn't the case if you look at the runs of what dr ron paul in two thousand and eight two thousand and twelve and at least the campaign rhetoric that
trump ran on he's obviously changed his mind since then but these neo-cons don't have a real constituency i think there are a parasite personally go ahead george. well parasite is exactly the right word because they did a baton on to of politicians in order to get back into power and you're absolutely right because in every single election it is always the candidate who advocates improve relations with russia no more interventions no more nation building it's every that that's the candidate who wins it wasn't just the trump of all of the twenty candidates who ran last year trump was the only one who said i want better relations with russia every single everybody else wanted to. wage war in russia as the first order of business but
even going back before that it was obama who who was mocking romney in two thousand and twelve oh you want to go back to the 1980's it was obama who in two thousand and eight was mocking john mccain's belligerence it is always the antiwar candidate who prevails and this is the whole point about neocons of the neocon served in is always against democracy because if you leave it to the american people they would have people like anybody else prefers peace to war prefers to be getting on with. domestic affairs or all the interventionism and this is if you go back to the origins of neoconservatives and the very origins was in the nineteenth seventies and it was in the democratic party when he was scoop jackson who who essentially single handedly destroyed what was really his extraordinary historic partnership that the nixon administration was developing
with the soviet union and scoop jackson scooped up if i may say so a second of all the liberals who suddenly became belligerently anti soviet and. that attacking richard nixon. the great cold war as being an impression of spock is so we've heard this story before and you let me go to you because i'm glad that george brought that up here because we have you know the neo cons that you know that were in the democratic party then they went over to the republicans now they want to find you know get into strange bedfellows with the democrats again here which is really interesting because if we go back to the soviet era you know the democrats were loathed to say bad things about the soviet union and now we have democrats can only say bad things about russia i mean this really is a paradigm shift is something that we saw maybe like in the in the one nine hundred sixty s. when they had the democrats in the republican shift forces in the in the in the south i mean we're having a complete cross for fertilization but at the same time it seems like the neo con
ideology has captured both parties for the most part go ahead andrew in toronto i tend to believe that. added influence of both the republicans democrats for decades if you just over if you just look over the last sixteen years alone the democrats have supported the iraq war they change their mind because it became politically expedient to do so they supported the afghan war they were they remain silent when that when obama struck the libyans and hillary clinton led state department created a migrant crisis going to libya and had the regime change a government gadhafi and then the democrats celebrated president trump when he was bombing syria so this isn't anything new this isn't just out of nowhere but i would say that there have been we look at this to a bit to negatively at the same time because there are many people within the republican party and the democratic party who are trying to fight back against the neo con persuasion recently congresswoman tulsi gabbert and kentucky senator rand paul the co-sponsored legislation that aims to prevent the u.s.
government from funding rebel and terrorist groups which is a step in the right direction it's the top leadership of both parties that are contributing to the the to. to the rise of the neo cons once again and this is dangerous for the american and and as well as the russian people because let's say donald trump remains a peaceful candidate what about his successor what if a democrat gets in there and then he wants to wage war against russia as many democrats have said because moscow supposedly committed attack against russia so we have to look at a also a positively because there is a ron paul movement occurring on occurring right now in the capitol hill and we should be pleased about the likes of tulsa gabbert and mike lee and rand paul who are fighting the cons ok you know michael one of the you know everyone knows on this program my favorite mantra to go after is the media here and i think that's the single biggest difference because when we knew we had scoop jackson around in congress here we had a media that was
a lot more even handed here now we don't have that at all as a matter fact i sometimes wonder if the democrats are taking their talking points from the media and not the other way around go ahead. well of course they are they in fact they they're feeding off of each other you meant you mentioned scoop jackson i richard perle used to work for him and then richard hired me to go to the pentagon so it was because of my investigative reporting background so i have some some touch with that reality over there but there are they will play both sides and and you're seeing today the kagan's the who who is married to victoria nuland she's a real hawkish on the ukraine all of the and along with along with wolfowitz again there it's up it's their desire to want to push that agenda of being anti russian and pro ukraine and worse and this is getting into the mainstream media and it's
also being fed by the deep state so it's it's something that is actually becoming more and more entrenched and more ideological and again i think donald trump was to look at the world today through the prism of reality and not through the prism of ideology which is absolutely contrary to what the neo cons have in mind and i might add one other thing that they need a constant really care what the public thinks that's true of their their their their their desire to go out and do what we did in iraq or or go after now dot try to set up a false narrative against the russians and maybe have a confrontation or two pair michael because we got it let me go to just go to your problem let me go to george here thirty seconds who are the break george i think that's a really good point these neo-cons have absolute contempt for democracy and the american people go ahead george twenty seconds. exactly and that's why this new organization that has been established very recently in the alliance for securing
democracy is a complete misnomer because the one thing that these people do not want is democracy. the moment you help people to have a vote they're going to vote for the candidate who wants peace the kind who was once the reconciliation with russia so the last thing you want is to let the people decide they are not on that good point we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the return of the neo con state party. here are going on right now after that one employer match.
should think muslims you may feel. a bit. the two thousand and eight economic crisis turned some countries into peg's these were the countries with weaker economies that needed austerity policies if you are in a situation of low bloat even the recession austerity is a very bad idea it doesn't work and it makes millions of people very unhappy those who are unemployed see their wages decline almost a decade how good are the results in new york city's will by the few. to watch it over get people to see what do i do. the beautiful blue she. was i mean if a legal. challenge if she was always think they see something.
why are the same measures still in place to one of the consequences. we. will for. the truth be considered is the consequences are actually quite acceptable to the discussion. welcome back to crossfire all things considered i'm peter you were discussing the neil column this revenge. ok let me go back to andrew in toronto as i've said repeatedly on this program is that i do watch all of the cable news or a great deal of it a lot of it turns my stomach a lot of it makes me very very angry sometimes i find it entertaining and i must
admit i mention tucker carlson again i'm sure all three of you gentlemen saw his debate with ralph peters and max boot and i was very pleased to see that finally. in with a very large audience watching talking about i. it is that all of us talk about on a regular basis i think it was new for a lot of their viewers and to how did you take that i mean because i thought it was an excellent display of one person i think in a on us in a smart person take on the entire establishment because i've never seen that really done on mainstream television in the u.s. go ahead. yes i was both pleasantly surprised because fox news what a dramatic shift for them where sort of promoting a war they're actually fighting against good pulling into another war at the same time i was also i was also terrified because you have the right likes of ralph peters and max boot who do have some for some reason the self influence of washington and he of ralph peter saying that vladimir putin is literally hitler and
you have max boot saying that flattery putin is a left top five adversaries of the united states i wonder why these people still have platforms when they have a dia's from decades ago and and what's even worse that they never learn from their mistakes they keep wanting to have wars that never never succeed they want to have a gene changes that cause they create even more havoc in the middle east in the rest of the world so one thing i am pleased about those interviews where it was that approved how the washing still has a dr strangelove bad this is probably one of the most unpopular guys right now in the united states after that interview at least with tucker carlson now he did make a mistake supporting the iraq war but he's not a policy maker is not a right he said any any say and public policy but mexico does and that's that's what's concerning to me you know you know michael after i saw that i thought you know well as long as there's stupidity in the world max boot will have somebody to talk with ok because i thought he he acquitted himself so embarrassingly
bad ok go ahead michael what was your reaction well my reaction is that that's the nature of tucker carlson's. approach is to confront people with different ideas but but what they're boot and and ralph peters represent is something pretty serious that's continuing to rise in the country and that is the democrats the democrats support that mantra because they are more hawkish toward russia and as long as the neo cons. spout that language the dems are going to support it and we we see that we're going to be. and this more and more it's going to become even more a fever pitch as the trumpet ministration seeks to try and work with the work with the. putin on on a variety of overarching issues which are very very serious and even when the when the mainstream media and the dems. trounce on trump just because he
goes across the table and sits down and has and has a few words with putin you know they've lost it they've totally lost it and this is the this steria that we're seeing in this town and it's only going to get worse you know george one of the things i guess that you want to jump in and you go ahead go ahead jump in yeah i'll make one point i want to have a last one question how does people still have jobs play considering their past record. you know their of their their record in iraq the record that got a star the record a seer the record in libya and elsewhere around the world how do they still taken seriously why do they have the odd i haven't that was your i job i have i have a theory though i have a theory real quickly they will go to michael there will probably be better than mine is that. cons because i've said earlier special interest donors they are they take care of these people so they destroy iraq the war continues in afghanistan and they just get an email or a text message on what's up you have
a new office and still air condition it's a different neighborhood in washington and we have a new project for you oh maybe ukraine this time don't worry there's no downside that's my theory what's yours michael. basically it's along the same line they they go and they create new think tanks for themselves for example the kagan and wolfowitz were all part of this project for the new american century until it was dissolved back in two thousand and seven but but they'll create these entities to remain relevant and they become lobby groups and that's a. a way of life it's a feeding frenzy it goes it's cyclical it goes on and on and on and then they become sort of the shadow government if you will on the outside so that when they're annoyed when their their candidate makes it then they can be tapped and they can move in just like elliot abrams he was almost as i say number two at the
state department that was pretty scary in george you know when i was you know i watch that abysmal station called m.s.m. b.c. i mean what a rag for when it comes to it's not even journalism you know you watch that station you learn no no when for me there's no new i watch a whole broad gives no new ways i don't know it's amazing to me you learn anything ok george what you know but what really worries me here and i've mentioned this on crossfire before how do you talk back some of the things that have been said over the last eighteen months how do you walk about without looking like a traitor and committing treason against your country i mean this is boxed themselves into a corner you have to continue with the aggression which you know more and more troops on borders you know you turn off those. of these planes turn off their their radars and stuff like down i mean this is an accident waiting to happen i mean it's
sleepwalking into disaster because i don't see them ever walking any of this back i mean sure maybe they won't get another country to screw up but they're never going to be held accountable and the stakes are just way too high i mean we're not talking about montenegro right now ok go ahead george yes exactly. they can't walk it back and that's why it is indeed very dangerous because this isn't the one war in vietnam or you know some war in some third world countries this is really a direct confrontation with russia which is a nuclear superpower because this is these confrontations of the taking place now. now whether it's in ukraine in the baltics this is very dangerous because they've now really pushed the united states and nato into into a direct fight with russia and this is something new this was even in the cold war
as i said you know there was vietnam there was a certain amount of confrontation on libya but it was still quite a long way from russia now the new line of conflict is right on russia's doorstep and that is very very dangerous and i think that what the goal of the m.s.m. to see this out is somehow to topple trump or this we each man or to maybe demoralize him into ill health then they can get mike pence in there and and then pence which is probably just piss you the full blooded neocon agenda and so on so it is indeed a very very dangerous situation well if that if that's the scenario you go to andrew in toronto i mean it that it's that kind of scenario is just asinine i mean my goodness it never takes into account national security at all i thought of these people are all about is national security i mean they're the risk to national security and you let me go to you in toronto let's turn it it's go look from the
outside in and i can tell you the political elite in russia they were absolutely bewildered by the behavior of the american media and of the political class and the deep state because it looks like they're just itching for a conflict and i will say something that is very controversial right now but president putin is a man of patience remarkable patience watching all of this going on and i am glad that donald trump decided to have been desert with putin at the g. twenty i didn't know it was a called a meeting until somebody in the media says that but the more talk there is the better there is there should be conned. ok and politics my goodness gentlemen is all about collusion it's about deal making go ahead andrew in toronto as i wrote of my article liberty nation dot com i said. that war is an addiction and a drug for others war is a political tool so for the democrats it's a political media it's a political tool for the neo cons it's
a drug that they need their next quick fix now what i find funny from the news network or from the washington compost is how they for trade the situation in russia because they act as if russia is the aggressor but it's quite the opposite the west is the one who is the aggressor when it comes to russia they have although all the nato troops on the border of russia they helped overthrow the ukrainian government with the with the help of the ngos they had to keep having missiles in the direction of russia and then of course you have the sanctions which are an act of war that self so how can the media keep or training as russia's aggressor when the evidence suggests the contrary just because russia cares about its border or they want to protect their sovereignty somehow there are literally hitler of the next over the next boogie man that the united states needs to topple so odd the propaganda coming from the coersion news now we're going to just it's both comical and frightening michael if you've worked in government at the high levels here let's talk about the american election being hacked whatever that really really
means because i don't know i mean you were sitting with people in power were well aware of how the united states in meddled in elections all around the world and they wouldn't think twice about doing that would they but the even the inference that the u.s. democratic system was being meddled with from the outside that's what they find shocking that is a horrific double standard and it's very it's not even it's not even. thought about in a moral sense because that again this whole ideology is immoral forty second give you the last word my friend michael in washington. well i would agree with. on this because they're montra is to. do we we did the very same things we obama in fact tried to alter the elections against netanyahu there was direct interference money paid taxpayer money paid this is what the thing that is worrisome is that the robert kagan xah and the wolfowitz is need to
a bad guy namely russia to remain relevant they've pushed the nato narrative to push for expansion into the border areas up to the borders this is been largely done at their behest and there and under their pressure and and influence and it's not going to go away any time soon and i'm afraid that we're going to see this more and more and it's and it's not going to get well one thing is not going to i would run out of time gentlemen one thing for sure these neo cons will never be held accountable still again for their behavior many thanks to my guests in washington new york and in toronto and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross titles.
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