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tv   World Apart With Oxana Boyko  RT  September 3, 2017 10:30pm-11:01pm EDT

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you know with all t. international all be back in thirty minutes time remember you can tell us what you think ball for your thoughts on our facebook page stay with us.
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welcome to worlds apart of the tomahawk missiles launched by two american destroyers in syria last week definitely had a bombshell in fact on global politics but they didn't change the balance of power on the ground did that strike represent a pitch for a new american strategy in the region or just a publicity stunt for the new administration well to discuss that i'm not joined by commander keke lippold former commanding officer of the u.s. navy destroyer u.s.s.
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cole commander it's great to have you on the show thank you very much for your time thank you for having me on today a pleasure to be here now contrary to the expectations the news cycle here in moscow today was rather slow the u.s. secretary of state the rex tillerson already had he's bidding with his russian counterpart sergei lavrov but it's still unclear at this point rather he's going to mit's with the russian president do you expect anything substantial to come out of his russia visit. i actually do i think the despite the obviously tense introduction that. secretary teller soon and lavrov had where there was no eye contact made on purpose by secretary lavrov the two of them said down and once the initial posturing for the cameras was all said and done the people that didn't really need to be in the meeting left and then the governments could sit down and start getting down to the real facts the real basis and start discussing what about
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the chemical attack one of the object is a beach country both in syria and for the region and so i think that there was some very good discussions these had to take place following these strikes to not do them what i think a been more detrimental to both country's interests in the region while commander on the eve of this meeting the russian official said that dire expectational for a fairly modest they just want to simply understand where they trumpet ministration stands on a range of middle eastern issues and i wonder if you think that the trumpet this ration if south knows where it stands i think they do i think in this case when you look at it one of the things that came through very very clear was while the previous administration under president obama put that red line out there and then never did anything of substance to enforce it through the trump administration felt that the use of chemical weapons in clear violation of international law merited a swift and forceful response in my opinion it was forced it was proportional it
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was appropriate and it's done i think it hopefully send a signal to the assad regime that this will not be tolerated anymore mr lippold the bombing of the syrian arab a says dramatic as it was does not amount to a syria strategy and let's admit that even the previous administration didn't have a coherent syrian strategy you said yourself it was sending a powerful signal but in military terms it didn't change and the thing on the ground i wonder how far do you think the trumpet ministries. can take these dramatic gestures the reaction there is gestures without paring down with actual military policy decisions well i don't think that it was a it was a dramatic necessarily obviously that's generated by how the news media covered it when you looked at what we did militarily they took those tomahawks you have to remember when the united states chooses to employ that weapon they put together
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a strike package and say ok one of the objectives of this strike what do we need to hit what we looked at was given that the strikes the chemical strikes came from that air base with the aircraft that were there they targeted those aircraft they targeted the fueling facilities the preparation of maintenance facilities they specifically didn't strike what they thought might be the chemical facility because obviously you don't want to create additional problems right there but nonetheless this was a military objective that was achieved the political objective goes to a larger strategy and when i think you look at it syria has always been a bit of a conundrum for the united states through successive administrations there is almost been this bubble over there we have not touched syria we have engaged with other countries in the region whether it is been and levanon coordination with jordan the u.s. has always been engaged in that region and we've always tried to be proactive to keep it stable because let's face it we want to make sure that the world's economies are not affected should oil get cut off i mean that's
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a real basis for it well commander you just said that you believe that strike was proportional and that reminded me of that famous george w. bush quote after nine eleven when he said that when he takes action he's not going to fire at two million dollar missile at a tan dollar and to thailand and heat a camel in the badat was his direct closed and we just had president trump spend around one hundred million dollars on. or rather sixty missiles destroyed a few maintenance hangars at canteen and six jazz that were already out of alteration daz these represent a decisive proportional action to you i think it does i think your facts may be not as well informed as they need to be delivered deleterious back commander my my my my colleagues on the ground that. facility your contacts are not there but my
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contacts there and the russian officials the russian journalists are there it's so they can clearly assess the damage raise you have to rely on the media so i think i tend to believe that the my the accuracy of my information is a bit higher than the accuracy of your information we can debate that but i would also look at the we have intelligence capabilities that are going to allow us to assess the amount of damage both an overhead imagery and satellites we clearly are going to have people on the ground that are going to be able to assess that as well so there is information that is coming out that is clearly showing to the united states what the strikes were intended to hit what the targets were what they were damaged and your folks can say what they want but the reality of it is you have to look at what are the aircraft the word damage to the group as a result of that strike having a one point three million dollar missile take out a take out a twenty to thirty million dollar aircraft certainly makes a difference well i just speaking about the efficiency of it tomahawk missiles are a highly powerful weapon do you really need sixty of them added prize of roughly
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one hundred million dollars to take out those few facilities that you mentioned don't you think that perhaps twenty would do the job well i don't know i have not spoken with secretary mabus he has never telegraphed operational plans so i don't know what the military objective was that was a stablished by the secretary of defense and the president regarding that airbase and what they wanted to target and take out the strike package itself turned out to be sixty missed. of which fifty nine hit their targets while dead this is why denmark and officials claims and they say disputed by the russian officials who believe that only twenty three missiles hit the target but clearly we have a disagreement here since you have had an experience of dealing with those missiles don't you think that perhaps sixty missiles would have been enough to take the entire city out oh it depends on again it depends on what you want to do the tomahawk missile is a very unique and very versatile weapon when it looks at it the warhead itself can
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be it is it is you have different types of warheads for different missions that you may want to conduct and depending on what you want to do you put together a package so that certain missiles are designed to do certain things some may be designed to take out a hardened aircraft bunker others may be designed to damage a runway so if the warheads on them are all different and you put together that combination of missiles necessary to achieve you know military objectives i don't know whether twenty would have been sufficient clearly the military felt that sixty was wild if they they felt they had that sixty missiles were necessary to take out whatever facilities that they were targeting but you know that the syrian air force resumed that flies out of the airfield just hours after the blowing raid isn't that perhaps a signal that the american signal wasn't really received well i don't think so i think when you look at it sure the syrians can launch an aircraft the one thing
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that we don't know is ok when that aircraft took off was it fully fueled was it armed was it capable of conducting operations against isis there may have been second and third order effects with the targeting on that base that while you can launch an aircraft no big deal but can it in fact conduct some of the military missions that assad may want to do hopefully it limited those missions especially with respect to chemical warfare let me inform you that a number of american supported groups in the region have already been complain. bad jabs flying off. the air base how been bombing them just day after the american a bunker bombing raid occurred so apparently they were able to conduct that military operations without any major obstacle again since you spoke so much about the efficiency of and the americans being able to achieve them military targets or the military goals i wonder if died again and again perhaps contradicts the
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american narrative here i don't think so because you have to look at what was the objective there the objective was to call the assad regime to the objects are you going after all political not military is that what you're saying i'm saying that it was a political objective that was achieved through military means by being able to conduct the strike let's face it every nation has political objectives you try to exercise other instruments of national power diplomatic informational or economic to achieve those but at the end of the day if you are unable to use those with any success i think every nation realizes that those instruments of power alternately may have to fall back to the military do it was recommended commander i fully agree with you here and i think the point i was making is that given how much don't talk about wasteful spending and spending on unnecessary of wars i just wonder if those political objectives could have been the t.v. ad the less surprised again that you you just wasted one hundred million dollars of
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american taxpayers' money and money to destroy a couple of hangers i suppose i mean my limited knowledge of technologists as that you can probably do that with five missiles you don't need to waste sixty on bad well i would take i would take issue with your with your term of the waste it was not a waste it was an investment for us that we were willing to spend that money on those missiles to achieve the objective of telling the a song. regime that the use of chemical weapons is not going to be tolerated and to date he has not used them again therefore as far as we can tell that objective has been achieved well commander we have to take a very short break but we'll be back in just a few moments don't go away. welcome
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to max kaiser that's. looking forward to that's the. yanks this is what happens to pensions in britain don't let this you watch kaiser report. welcome back to worlds apart and we're discussing the situation in iran syria with kirk lippold form a commanding officer of the u.s.s. cole now commander as you know the united states and russia have major differences on who was behind her wrist sick comically valid in the ad lib province and i
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understand there is no reason why you should give more credence to the russian version down to the american one and i'm not asking you to do that but i wonder if just in general if you find it a proper id to sound cruise missiles anywhere without a un mandate or a proper investigation would it be if russia china iran no any other country did so relying only on its intelligence sources and refusing to provide died of a dense to the rest of the world well i think the way you have to look at. is that had we gone to the united nations security council you have countries that clearly support rogue regimes around the world if we had taken it to a united nations security council vote where we had requested to take action undoubtedly both russia and china would have vetoed it come monday that it applies to every country that sits on the security council so next time china has some issue in the south china sea or russia has some issues in ukraine and it feels that it cannot get support necessary support in the security council you believe it
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should go it had and use its cruise missiles to achieve its political and military goals is that what you're saying well let's let's let's come to a common understanding first i mean surely you agree that the use of chemical weapons violates international absolutely i totally agree on that and i think that the people who authorized and carried out that attack should be absolutely brought to justice there is no disagreement about that i think where we disagree is who conducted that attack and as of now russia. houser reasons of not believing the united states simply because the americans have not provided any evidence or any of the intelligence that they keep referencing none of that is public we simply do not take your word for granted that's it i think part of the discussions that are going to take place today and whether lavrov shares that with the russian people is another point of discussion but the reality is i think that when secretary teller since it's down with him today he is going to lay out and he's going to say here's what we've been able to demonstrate and show you when the aircraft took off from
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that airfield what the preps were prior to those aircraft taking off what was uploaded on to the aircraft i mean these are things that the united states always shows nations like russia and others when they say oh this didn't happen let me just let me seize on that point if that's indeed the case if the united states has this information if it's willing to share that with the russian officials why doesn't go ahead and share it with the rest of the world we have we you haven't i've seen it on i've seen it on the net what i want in that clip is you see the letters are usually what i saw was the u.s. government the pentagon released information saying here's when the aircraft launched out of that base here's when they were over the area it coincided almost exactly to the same minute that the syrian gas attack was alleged to have started to occur and all due respect the the fact that there was some bombing raids in the area is not disputed what is being disputed is what kind of gas was used and how
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exactly it was delivered there the means of delivery have not been established as if you had this is what the united nations says at this point of time they have no accurate information but that's what they said they have no information on the means of delivery and that's why everybody wants to know i think would you agree at least that this is something that needs to be investigated and as of now we are not hearing any calls on the united states to precede the dynamic that allows an investigation but i'd be willing to bet right now the president assad is not going to. allow people in there in a neutral unbiased manner to have come and nab said they're in i'm not down on the control that terry terry terry terry is controlled by they i'm mary can alice and some al qaeda linked groups present does have can do nothing to get access to that area so if the americans want to put pressure on dire groups on the groups that they support in the region they can surely provide that axis well you know whether that area is under u.s. control or not i honestly do not know but i will tell you conducting those strikes
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on civilians is a violation of international law so clearly the assad regime has demonstrated time and again that they are unwilling to comport with international law the united nations has done nothing and i grow increasingly concerned look i understand that russia has had a long relationship with syria but at some point in time i mean even even secretary level of said our support for the assad regime is not unconditional saluki it's not unconditional command there but it will can to be contingent on the actual avid and snot on one side what some anonymous sources in the state department or the pentagon leaked to the media that's the only point of the discussion here if you indeed have the abbot and bring it out and make russia comply with the calls of the so-called international community and you know i think the pentagon is doing that and i think you'll see more that it hasn't done that well here's what i would also ask them. under what conditions is russia going to abandon support for assad
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because you've said it's not unconditional why don't you lay out the conditions so it's very clear to the assad regime in the world how far russia is willing to go and where they're going to draw their own red lines well russia has actually already stated that moscow sees the m.e. use of chemical weapons absolutely inadmissible so if it's indeed proven that they can make a weapons were used in deadly province absolutely it will not stand by who average conducted a tad but again in order to establish you will have to have something more than just leaks to the american media because american media have been manipulated into war many times before and there is little appetite of allowing them to do that again here in moscow at least well you know you've got to be careful casting stones on our media clearly russia through through its history as well has had a number of occasions when their media has been manipulated in order to make the people line up behind
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a military action around the world while i don't i cannot actually think of any recent examples of that but rather than arguing way way way way i'm not going to let you get away with that one just done said let's go back and look at crimea eastern ukraine before that you had afghanistan there have been a number of occasions when you have looked at countries your invasion into georgia those are still ongoing where russia has with the media your media into a frenzy. i'm not sure you are very. knowledgeable on the details of the georgian intervention i was there on the ground and i know for a fact that it was georgian school lunch today and that is actually an established fact you cannot argue against that crimea was not a military operation nobody was killed there that was a referendum there was the presence of russian troops there but it was preceding an event in the ukraine there was a russian base there already asked for east. and ukraine while it is clear and i
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don't think russia is even denying that it is providing certain level of support diplomatic political perhaps otherwise to the rebels in eastern ukraine but so does the united states and so many countries around the world this is not something that i think you can blame exclusively on russia but yet since you mentioned the syrian army and how it behaves i'm sure you read the recent news out of iraq where and enormous number of civilians have been killed by the american military i understand that that is almost impossible to avoid in any war any war is horrible but can you really say that the american military behave so much better in a rag assad military he's behaving in syria because the number of casualties is east comparable there is absolutely no comparison between those two there is no comparison between those two the united states and the time we put together any
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kind of strike package or we're going after a target we take extreme pains to ensure that there we minimize if not entirely eliminate. the last week some three hundred bodies were pulled out of the rubble in the city of mosul three hundred bodies is that what you call avoiding civilian casualties three hundred that isn't to say that in any war there won't be mistakes what it does say is that the united states unlike a sawed who specifically targets his people the united states makes every effort possible to ensure that civilians are not targeted i heard you say that the president trying by launching those missiles was pursuing american national interest and i'm sure you would agree with me that national interest and never need aligned surely the united states and russia. well as i'm sure i'm am most of the
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other countries in the world do have an interest of vital interest in making sure that chemical weapons are not used but there is also an interest in fighting terrorism and many of the groups operating in did that province terrorist groups by america's own admission don't you think that by pursuing one national interest which is related to the chemical weapons the template ministration may have undermined and the other reach is fighting terrorism i think both russia and the united states are fighting a very delicate balance over there unfortunately when the assad regime so four years ago had this civil war break out as a result of how he was treating his people the people that turned against him turned to the only people they knew would have the weapons and the capability for them to try and fight the assad regime unforeseen that was terrorist group regardless of who they are aligned with from that you saw the birth of isis when isis came out and rapidly expand took over iraq and began to take large swaths of territory throughout that area both in syria and in iraq you saw an explosion of
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violence and cruelty that both our nations agree is just beyond the pale well commander i hate to correct you but i think most american experts with agree that i still was borne out of the american invasion of iraq so that the cruelty that you were referring to. you know it was a it was created by i said an invasion that took place long before any actions by president assad i think that there were conditions that were created but isis grew out of the instability in that region partially part of it came out from the civil war that assad initiated and brought on himself by how he treated his people there was clearly the problem with iraq in the fact that they had a government that was weak centrally that did not get out into its regions did not provide stability for its people and so consequently isis was able to grow out of more degree of frustration but then became so radek. lived that we realized it is
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a threat to international order and this is where one area where both the russian the united states need to work together need to collaborate and cooperate well commander we've touched upon. your previous experience on already and i just want to bring into our viewers back in two thousand and october two thousand when you were at the commanding officer of the year is this call your ship was attacked by seventeen of your man were killed thirty seven were injured and i wonder how do you think the families of the victims would fail about their search and or the beliefs in some part of the world that the united states is now actively aiding al qaeda be it in syria where it is at least not stopping its own allies like turkey and saudi arabia from funding those groups al qaeda linked groups this is not a controversial statement this is something that them are can intelligence also recognize how do you think the the the reality of of the people who died under your
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command with feel about it. i think that these families are very frustrated that we have gone on almost seventeen years now and have yet to see justice for those sailors that were killed in that attack and the they when they look at it right now when i talk to them they trust that the u.s. government is doing what is necessary to go after both al qaeda first and foremost they're going after isis and at the end of the day i think that they are what we are trusting that the united states government is gathering the intelligence necessary to ensure that we take on these groups and that we do one of two things when it comes to terrorists who want to harm americans we hunt them down and we are capture them or we kill them but don't you think that perhaps here in the west in too much trust in the american government given the absolutely disastrous consequences of the american intervention in iraq which was launched as we all know a false pretax resulted in. million daf and the birth of ice is
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strengthening awful and so on and so forth don't you think that you perhaps all the american people and the man who watched me on to your command a little bit more captives says i'm about the actions that your government is willing to take in yet another middle eastern country well when you look at the united states and you've got to remember i haven't had haven't been part of the government except when i was on active duty as a military officer in command of that destroyer at a very unfortunate time but when you look at the larger picture i think that the united states still wants to have an active role throughout the world in helping countries learn about the advantages of being having a democracy of having a stable economy being able to provide for their people and i think that's very important a lot of the conditions they create some of these terrorist groups are born from the fact that the nations they come from are impoverished or poor don't provide for them and they see no hope so they turn to violence in hope of achieving these
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objectives they're typically an educated and so you have to do is try and create the conditions where they don't turn to this radicalized islamic fundamentalism that allows them to go out there join groups whether it's al qaeda or isis or all nuestra and begin to undermine the stability of regions and then globally well come out there with all of a deleterious effect i think what undermines the stability of the region. you know sometimes our cruise missiles sound into a silver in nation and it's very difficult for you to sell me the case that. sending fifty nine tomahawk missiles into syria is going to promote their democracy but anyway we have to leave it there we ran out of time i really really appreciate your appearing on the show it was a valuable perspective and i encourage our viewers to leave their thoughts in our twitter you tube and facebook pages i hope to see you again same place same time here on worlds apart.
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we have many military options we are not looking to the total annihilation of a country namely north korea but as i shared with many. u.s. defense secretary jim mattis promises a massive military response if north korea threatens the u.s. to pyongyang confirms it successfully tested a hydrogen bomb. the russian foreign ministry slants u.s. searches of russian diplomatic science as an illegal a diabolical circus privacies in san francisco and washington was shut down on the state department's orders. and in our review of the week islam.


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