tv The Stan Collymore Show RT June 22, 2018 12:30am-1:00am EDT
welcome to worlds apart israel has long argued against a permanent iranian presence in southern syria and to some extent its arguments were heated by russia but is the united states occupation of northeastern theories becoming more entrenched and permanent in nature and will israel act on russia's concerns well to discuss that i'm now joined by danielle allen for my deputy foreign minister of israel and former israeli ambassador to the united states ambassador it's very good to talk to you thank you very much for your time my pleasure i think you would agree with me that russia by and large has been responsive to israel's security concerns. it doesn't get involved when israel takes liberty to strike targets on the syrian territory obviously violating the sovereignty of that country and the up you know russia allows that to happen do you think though this kind of arrangement has any limits that israel has to be mindful off well certainly israel is very mindful of russian interests russian is
a very friendly country very much value and appreciate our very good relationship with russia i think it's also very important for russia is want to work together so many or far interests are converging certainly in the case of proliferation of nuclear material. or counterterrorism many many things russia and israel are working together and on the issue of syria and iran i think both countries both israel and russia have a very very strong interest of having stability in syria or having you know ending any. forces there. ok to provoke and cause
a lot of violence both in syria and also in the surrounding countries jumping in i think russia is certainly has an interest of not seeing forces that were active that would act provoke at tivoli in in syria but i think those forces at least from the russian point of view include not only the iraqi and forces but also american forces and to some extent is really forces because israel has become a increasingly assertive in striking targets on the territory of syria even if russia looks the other way i think indirectly it does impact on russia's own interests do you think russia will continue looking the other way or do you think it will actually become a little bit more proactive in deterring these type of assertiveness on the part of israel when i think the close cooperation will continue and there is a very good chemistry and personal relationship between prime minister and it's and
you know and president putin and in this case i think the things look very good for both our countries i think the last thing that russia needs in israel is a very active iranian presence. and with the other shiite militias at the end of the day we have to remember whether it's the shiite militias or whether it's sunni militias whether it's in chechnya or whether it's in israel or in europe we are all in the same boat so i think limiting the runyon presence in syria is very important and we have to remember senator that we are not the one who started it we have not been any we didn't have any involvement in syria whatsoever until the iranians came close and they also said that they were going to open a second well. i'm afraid our reading of the syrian conflict is very very different . because i think from the russian point of view it's not the rain ians who came
first of the americans and the saudis and the who started financing in supporting extreme sunni groups and i have to correct you that. since you mention that we suffered from the presence of extremist sunni groups not shia groups but. thing on that she issued because they see it c.n.n. has just recently reported that it was actually ease rail reach chock targets close to the in iraqi border last sunday reportedly killing twenty two people who are believed to believed to be to have belonged to the iraqi popular occupation force it's not only about iran anymore it's also about iraq because that group of paramilitaries it is officially part of iraqi military right now do you have any concerns that israel may be perceived as. striking or waging an undeclared war against the shia forces in general no not really and you know about
the c.n.n. reports i don't know how much credibility. i didn't hear any confirmation from any israeli military authorities really military authorities never and never come for it never confirm such incidents so that's not an argument they're ok but you know any case would be suicide your rights any of that there were sunni militias and as far as we're concerned you know well let's say that you do a christian heritage. whatever you know which is not based on me yes there is a big fight between shia and sunni but whoever wins they're going to go against us so there is not much difference between the extreme islamists in there. and isis or hizbullah or hamas or others but this is beside the point your rights and you know that there were. other forces saudis and others in syria but these forces did not. threaten israel and this is why we were not involved whatsoever in the
only way we were the only i would say a matter that we were involved in was putting you many tarion you know that we have on the border between israel and syria in the golan heights we have field hospitals we treat everyone who comes whether they are terrorists or not but when the iranians and hezbollah and their militias were targeting us when they were coming over towards our border and we saw an interview here because a i find these formulation by israeli officials or former officials very curious somebody coming over towards our border and you have to decide whether it is over your border or towards the oberoi because coming towards your border is not a crime people are entitled to be where they want to be if it's according to even the lawyer if it's according with the agreements bilateral agreements that exist there on the side but putting that aside you mentioned the sunni extremists and it
is i think quite obvious to everybody that israel is increasingly cozying up with the most hardline sunni regimes like saudi arabia other regimes in the region and those regimes quite clearly finance have financed and perhaps will continue financing the most extremist groups in syria do you see any danger coming from those groups to israel. well again i do not make any distinction between the radical sunni and the radical shiite i think they are against the entire world but when i say that they are coming towards our border they are not coming with flowers and with candies they come with arsenal of deadly weapons and just two three months ago the iranians sent a drone with explosives into our territory every now and then they are shooting. at our territory so we have learned from experience that if you let
the. terror groups like. in lebanon to build up and build up and build up then it creates a major war and we cannot allow that they will threaten our major a population centers and what iran is trying to do in syria is create another base in iranian base in syria just like they do they did in lebanon this is why we cannot allow it and i think that the russian authorities understand and respect it on the other hand you are right there is a closeness of relationship now between the gulf countries and israel but this is mainly because of the threat from iran iran is the main state destabilizer in the region you know they are in yemen helping the hoodies against the government they are in lebanon with against the government they are in libya they are anywhere they
are in but her reign they were trying to actually topple old the sunni governments and now they're trying to do the same thing in syria and we have to stop them now ambassador you left perfectly to my next question is around israel has long maintained that it was committed to preventing iran or any of its offshoots from establishing themselves in syria and for that it counted extensively on the russian understanding. i think even collaboration to some extent is israel ready to return that favor because we are now hearing about u.s. plans to establish a more permanent american presence in northeastern syria which definitely goes against russia's interests in that country should we expect israel to be an advocate of russia's interest with that merrick and especially now that you have such a perfect relationship with the white house yes i think i think this is a very good i think this is a very good thing both for moscow and from for washington and for jerusalem.
i believe that israel will do its best because here you know russia is our friend america is our friend i think we have a lot of interests against the against terrorism and against instability in the region so i'm sure that israel can do a lot in advocating in. sending messages and also trying also to influence the result in syria will be the best outcome you know that the united states now against the former position of the united states have said that they are not minding. staying in power now assad staying in power is a very important russian interest so we now support this russian interest and now america supports this russian interest so i'm sure we will be filled to respect this is not what i am i what i ask you about because for russia preserving syrian territorial integrity and sovereignty east paramount it's not just about who sits
in damascus it's about keeping the country intact and i ask you specifically on the american plans not official plans but actively discussed plans to establish a quasi i protectorate a quasi american protectorate in that country. what is the process and cons for israel they are well i would say the only pro for israel is. syria which has no press. of hizbollah shiite militias and iran and not only that not allowing iran to build a major ballistic missile facilities because we cannot allow the iranians to build missiles in lebannon or in syria and give it to the hizbollah and they use it as proxies against us this is something that has to end we have exposed their you runyan face now and they should be up front so far the iranians have been
very very methodical and very very sophisticated i would say very conniving when they were behind all the proxies they were willing to fight until the last hizbullah man or the last assad man or the last shiite militias now we want to see the iranians in the front and this is where i think when their interests are going to be harmed when their people are going to be at harm's way i think this will perswade them to go back to their territory and about their territorial in great integrity of syria i'm sure that israel and russia are talking together all the time and i'm sure we see things most of the things i too i well ambassador we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments they can't.
right now we're all set started five times that is the syria has a signal. isn't going to top up and. just leave it right after the arse explores one little bit of their. pool of rock. ok let's. hold them to sophie and tell him so the shevardnadze said today woke up lots to talk about in our program and our gas to move good luck to.
kentucky. boy suzy st. louis no coal mines left. the jobs are gone all the ones that showed. that it was love to see these people the survivors of disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that is anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in a million years i would see that and it's happened it's happened. welcome back to worlds apart with alun for my deputy foreign minister of israel.
ambassador just before the break we started discussing this. suppose that american plans of forming a more permanent presence in syria and. the white house i mean according to the leaks from the white house the main rationale there is just as you articulated is to deter the reigning in presence and historically i think american adventure is in the middle. it's time to empower iran the rather than the weaken it what makes you believe that this time around it's going to be different well i think the first thing is that the united states now has a lot of experience and also knowing the inner politics in washington and saying i'm sure you know it too and you follow it that the trumpet ministration actually does not entertain too much the idea of what we called boots on the ground or for american forces extended all over the world so i think their policy. in principle
the policy of the united states is to bring all their boys back home so this is why i think they're also in syria and on the border you know eastern syria on the border with iraq. i think that their objective is to finish the job as soon as possible and get back home well ambassador what i think the americans are planning to do is to pull their troops out and outsource the job to the saudis and qataris and i honestly don't see how it's going to be better because i'm not a great fan of the american military in syria but i'm even a lesser fan of the saudis proxies in syria but that customs of cutting have do you have any concerns that this kind of arrangement is going to give a second wind to this already extremely bloody conflict. well senator i hope not i think a lot of diplomatic now there is a room for a lot of diplomatic work and i believe that with the united states and russia
together i think the pressure should be put and can be put on only iran because once iran is out i think most of the problems are done and then you can deal also with the sunni's but first and foremost i think iran is the main provoke a tour if you will it's the most dangerous one you know. you asked about why israel is so concerned about iran iran is the only country in the world that says out in the front without their disguise they want to destroy our country of course we will not let them to do that your own government and the your allies in the trumpet ministration are pretty open about their vision change agenda in iran so you guys have to you're essentially equals i think you do you treat each other in the same way that provokes these kind of animosity between the two of you well again i think it starts with the ayatollah as the ayatollahs in iran which i don't believe they represent the people of iran they have been very dangerous they are very extreme
they want chaotic situation they want to hedge of money actually they want to control the entire middle east and we see that we see it in iraq we see it in syria and lebanon in yemen in libya about her and you just name it and i think this is the main source if you add into this the fact that they have become the iranian ayatollahs have become much more aggressive after the nuclear deal in twenty fifteen so you see a very very unstable situation and i think the only way to stop it is with russia and the united states work together i think there the interests here are much more there what what i think we share in common is much more than what separates us and i believe that the united states has realized that russia has legitimate interests in the middle east and before you know during the. cold war and even after the cold war it was like a zero sum game well ambassador with those due respect i think if the united states has a habit of changing its mind very frivolously his though even if it did realize that
i can easily imagine the teaching a different conclusion just you know the day or a few weeks down the line but going back to the actual discussion one of the reasons why syria is so dependent on the run is because the united states does everything possible to prevent it from generating income it is actively seeking to undermine no sabotage any kind of reconstruction it is blocking serious trade with its neighbors not to mention occupying almost thirty percent of its territory shouldn't shouldn't it be doing the exact opposite thing if it wanted to be less reliant on. well absolutely and i'm sure again this this thing will come but you know you have to do it you cannot just put as we say you cannot put the cart before the horses and first of all you have to get the iranians out they have no
business in syria once the iranians are out of syria believe me standing i'm sure syria will be in a much better place with their reconstruction with investments and most of all with peace so their people will stop being under the their rage of all the wars and all the infighting and again we have to see there are right now according to my estimates at least eighteen thousand shia militias they have no place they have no reason to be there whatsoever you have there a few thousand iranian as they call it advisers they have no reason to do it well if you ask a random guy in moscow if the united states and israel should have these strong militar. realize that you guys have most of the people of would tell you that it is that you're mental to russia's interest in the region but so what who cares and in the same line of argument i want to ask you who is israel to decide whether there
should be any security or defense called peroration between syria and iran well that's a good question but i would say you know the us is one relationship you know goes along back and we know we did not invite the united states that we don't have any soldiers or any american bases in israel we can defend ourselves by ourselves we have told the americans we never want any anybody else to fight for us we can do it if we have to but in the case of iran as they mentioned they came with very harmful intentions they are not only in syria but we see that syria is only part of the puzzle and if you look you know from a more let's say a strategic point of view we see that what the iranians are trying to do is actually to isolate and to circle israel what our demand from iran is not just an israeli demand it's the demand of jordan of all the gulf countries of egypt so you
see that the region itself sees iran as a major major threat in all of us and you know when you have israelis and arabs agree on something believe me this is very true so iranians are the bad guys unfortunately it's not the iranian people we respect the iranian people it's the iranian told us until nine hundred seventy nine we had good relations with iran hopefully i mean i'm not talking about regime change it's not up to us about their own fully the iranian people. will have a better better leaders to lead them and that's it is very very with all due respect i think the region is if we are being fair is divided when it comes to iran there are many countries that are eager to advance that trade and that context with that country. on the second point that israel doesn't have any problem with the people of iran i'm sure the you know the iranians would say the same that you know
even the iranian ayatollahs would tell you that they have absolutely no problem with the jews but they they do have a problem with the current political. structure in israel which puts its own security interests above everybody else which allows itself the kind of military and security tactics that very few countries to be honest with you would be a for that if they were not supported by the united states but rather than arguing about that i want to ask you one more question specifically about the trumpet ministration because you have referred to throughout this program to you you know new kinds of ideas the experience that this administration supposedly have. some of the people in that administration for example national security advisor john bolton have long argued in favor of the partition of both theory a and iraq to create something in the middle that he refers to as sunni stan do you think that's already the actual intention of the white house or are they still being weighed about
what's their ultimate game in northern syria is i think is still. work in progress . i'm sure that they have not come to any conclusions but just one thing is the difference between israel and iran that does not call for the destruction of iran even told us the iranians call for the destruction of israel so where by definition they are against the jews but when it comes to iran. iraq and syria what we see. is the residual catastrophe that the colonial powers in world war one caused you know france and england they are the one created iraq and syria is artificial countries and you know what they did if you look at it. they did conquer divide by and conquer because when they look at syria with a sunni majority majority they put. regime overeats in iraq with
a shia majority they put a sunni government so this is part of the main problem that we see now not only in syria and iraq but throughout the middle east let them better don't you think that you're conveniently forgetting a more recent history including the american intervention in iraq which really created a chaos in that part of the world to be and which was assisted them to some extent promoted by mr bolton who we're mentioning already do you actually because i know that you are a big supporter of the trump administration presumably of mr bolton himself do you think he has been a positive force in your part of the world well in hindsight i must tell you send him maybe. the operation back in two thousand and three should have been against iran iran is the more dangerous power iran is much more capable and stronger than saddam hussein's iraq ever was so in that respect maybe they should have gone
and clear you run from their. nuclear infrastructure against all the international commitments of iran iran is a member of the nonproliferation treaty and they have violated and we know how they hide things and iran is not the only country that is hiding things especially when it comes to nuclear weapons right ambassador thing you know better than i did that israel is widely believed to hold a few dogs and of nuclear war have but there is a difference iran is a member of the n.p.t. they signed they have to work they have to live by their signature israel is not a member of n.p.t. for our own national security we have a very very specific you know. with a policy that israel will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the middle east we abide by eat and nothing else but iran signed in chile and saw they
have the previous american administration signed to deal with iran and they cheat it so what i mean that that seems to be quite admissable behavior in these day and age don't you think so i hope not i hope not and we have to see who are the aggressors who are the ones that provoke were the ones that are really very very bad meanings and this is the main problem told us that they have very very bad meanings not only towards israel but towards the sunni countries towards europe and i think that from a russian point of view and of course i am and not in any position to do to consult the russians it's your prerogative and you do it the best but for russia to have a long border with iran with the possibility of a nuclear iran under diego told us i think it's risking everything well ambassador all i can tell you is that the iranians are definitely not the easy instead negotiating partners for russia but the what the russians have found is when you
need go shade in good faith you can actually find some common ground i think israel may benefit from exploring that approach as well but anyway we should leave it here i really appreciate your time on the show and i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going on our social media pages as for me hope to see you again same place same time here on the worlds apart. this is says holland kentucky. the
place you go. to. a co money city with almost no coal mines left. the jobs are gone all the coal was a said i'd. love to see these people the survivors of disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in the million years i would see that and it's happened it's happened.
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