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tv   Going Underground  RT  January 14, 2019 2:30am-3:01am EST

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if you believe in a last minute change of being delusional the idea that there is an option of renegotiating the eleventh hour is simply a delusion and u.k. mainstream media is arguably timidly turning against stories making to promote tory backbenchers like this one seen insulting germy corbin's labor party there is no serious opposition there is nobody challenging the government in the way actually it ought to be a challenge because go to opposition leads to good government there is to borrow does read his phrase a range of exhausted volcanoes i think some of them were never even volcanoes it's more like a range of molehills but is that true or is it a progressive progress of perspective and the next it perspective is not being given that i'm in britain his mentor to so many of labor's front bench is tony benn who's productive use first informed jeremy corbyn and which are agreed on not only by the seventeen million voted for breakfast at the referendum not only by jacob reese morgue but a majority of labor's working class space i want to cooperate and join
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international organizations but no international organization which we have members of the nato get can make laws in britain that we cannot train and every colony since the war has been to london we've had these great colonial leaders was to their rule was to look cruel all of them have been to london to ask for the right for self-government and independence and i want no more right for the british people than we gave the indians then we gave the americans took for the last two hundred years ago joining me now is holford begin to professor of geography of the university of oxford who together with sally tomlinson has just written rule britannia and the end of empire thanks so much dan for coming back on so what's the book about giving as a kind of remain vision arguably and we have that vote tomorrow which without gina miller who's been on this show maybe we wouldn't have had she probably like this book wouldn't she it's all pretty program aine. you could see it as problematic.
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you know. academics it is more the citadels of might but what we try and in the book is step back and back and back from this. and we do try to try to cover the other side mainly the pro tory argument for breaks it but we're fundamentally trying to answer the question of why this happened why he was put in the first country off to greenland to try to leave the you when you've won a slogan to take back control it's how important it is that back bit there was a time not very long ago where this country had more control of more people than any other country has ever had in the history of human can't you know we did have control and i think part of the reason that that slogan. is there's a sense that when we were in control things were going well and getting better so in a sense if we leave let's it the left wing case for it so this book basically explains
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why the right to one would expect to support new liberalism the city of london and so on why on earth they should be opposing what the next g. is a is a new liberal institution well some of them i mean some of the vital very for the opinion that because they are on the start of the city of london that's the depends on being in the opinion of those on the right seo larger financial picture i mean we smokers fall for about a book saying that the world will be a kind of part of the future and you really do want to be a treasure island of sight for mate but when you look at the leading packs of his so many of them grew up in former colonies so when he grew up in families which you had service workers. go through i don't want to be careful over scribing never take you live used to that charlton or. remember the movie which we have to be very careful wife in this book because you know they get the. we do list in the book
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a series of names of ones who grew up somewhere else in affluence and their families have gone and this includes the families of leading remain as they become and family were at the top of the world a few generations ago and you know will they be doing that with time to be shared you know you get a feeling of being diminished in britain if you in the top one percent in britain your grandfather and your great grandfather was deciding whether he wanted to run india or do something else big in london and you know trying to get a job with a stockbroker well i want to get on to some of that commonwealth colony stuff and enter second. ironic though that to morris vote seems just center on england's oldest colony. in the book you claim almost no with of understanding of england's first colony in eleven sixty nine was evident to twenty seventeen would you say irony that to morrow it will be the irish border it's incredible i mean nobody
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realized that that border was cyclists really you can't at the time of the debate load it decision was ireland hardly matters there were a few country roads crossing a border that's not and then we can have technological solutions remember without going thank god it's gone quiet but are there we're going to use some kind of supercomputer i mean you don't have to have our border and drones presumably there's a realignment a in the first colony of a glint in a country which the english treated in some ways almost more despicably than anywhere else in the world. to our engineers of course will be mostly content they will contest it but almost one of the few places the world has a lower population now than it had a hundred and sixty hundred seventy years ago which is quite incredible that you know this is kind of a sort of justice to design and. i think that it's the key sticking point is an ardent. if if becomes the only english speaking country
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in significant country in the union is the place you want to set up your business if the people you want to hire from england want their children to speak english but going back to the emperor thesis in the book yes it's natural that immigration and falsified narratives of immigration would play a starring role in the holbrooks a debate yet we only dream of movement well over other countries in europe when the question becomes so i ask is what's different about this country we did it significantly first we have had higher rates of immigration for a much longer period the much of the mainland and woman is also that is very multicultural society love that is the real big apple of the world but we've also had a legacy since at least ninety know what we have cut into more than one of incredible basis propaganda against each immigrant group associated with fascism and the same . propaganda was rolled out for i want
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a cli extremely white very pale white eastern europeans why was the favor of immigration stoked up and up and up in this country the fear being strongest in the air is at least immigrants it was partly stoked up because this was a natural trope of the british if one for longer than other people but also because these papers in the propagandists don't want to talk about inequality they will tell you that you've got the palm of your schools and your houses and hospitals and your wages because of the immigrants not because the rich are taking a bigger bigger slice of the pie that poses a question as to why german corbin is labor but he is also keen to say freedom of movement is a very important issue here around the people is the vote for labor why is labor saying labor doesn't have a particularly clean record on immigration it's never been as nasty as the tories so we haven't. realised that why did the brits have this problem you know you know
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power went out almost banking people to come here and work to keep the buses running in the health service running. we have this problem particularly the england empire much bigger than the others because. we are government of a people without their consent on the assumption that we were naturally superior to them and it was in their interests as well as well as ours that we should be in charge of them from the lexer point of view one could say that is uniqueness that you keep pointing to in the book could open a vision of a post bricks at britain that is equally as unique and that limits the power of the city of london and allows the renationalisation perhaps without compensation of housing of water of electricity of energy and the railways you could. you don't address that so much because i can see how theoretically you could if
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everybody agreed and we all work together to create this socialist utopia in a matter of say fifteen years working very hard. but we actually government did quite a lot in the body at the government did it after two generations of men had been forced to fight side by side in a war that could have been avoided and not get she the kind of attitude you need to get people to really you know we have mixed our population in the same way that they make when they're fighting a war we've actually divided our population into segregated schools more segregated anywhere else in europe much of the rest of europe where people have decent regulation on their vents. places where homelessness affording the places is already half and getting better ok the ones i would have the left are those different countries feels it is under attack it is as well as but as a as a professor at one of our elite institutions you do say in the book that history teaching is another key let me just a next generation want to go to decisions like this because basically excoriate
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history teaching in the schools history clarity in english history teaching and this is a lesson we all focus it is whether to flee easy teachers like you and me because if you were in germany the history you teach in germany is a very realistic history about what happened in europe because of losing a war. we didn't lose a war we haven't lost a war for a very long time we haven't had to correct the story we've told ourselves iraq. but then we when we do when we lose a war we pretend that we weren't really involved with the war that was the americans you know we don't admit to our failings we tell ourselves with pete it lines about ourselves i'm going to also ask that i mean your chair is walford mackinder reborn you know that much about what the tools that we're being given on television are mainstream television to understand why britain is voting. was in a sense the better dig cumberbatch stored in
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a film about bricks is what you make of this narrative a lot of people are talking about which is this is facebook maybe the russians maybe digital marketing it's nothing to do what does the social geography offer us is a way of understanding the real reasons for this you could look the thing we know more about the than anything else is a joke of it we are absolutely sure how many people voted labor made in each area and old people who don't go on facebook so the media marketing thing a bit but it wasn't as crucial as it's being made out to be we have a lot in about dominic cummings in the book because he is fascinating and if you're trying to strangle the figure credited with swinging it oh but also part of a group of young conservatives who were dedicated to this kind of thing happening and that's been forgotten and then you look at his version of the history of england was he when he look at his great big thesis about the greatness of this
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place and so on and you can see that he thinks we've lost something he thinks we need to take back control to get back to. that we should be and he need to understand that to understand why this happened to us because we were a place where people like dominic cummings could win with countries like france and germany and spain and italy are not places where people like dominick cummins can. and consensus can wait but not people who try to take you back you know a hundred is to an idea that they have or that they've read the know history books in their particular schools that they went about the greatness they think should come back and give us an adoring thank you thank you but after the break we told class war and ziggy stardust that spider from oz what he wouldn't see in the month david bowie would have turned seventy two. to have going underground.
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seemed wrong. just don't all. get to shape out. and in gains from. the trail. one song find themselves worlds apart. she still the common ground. zero officer. told you to get up off the ground serve began to get him down. and then freeze on the sounds of an mit grown man mislead essentially the officer. john. twisted away from the officer of the joy out of his group. they obviously did they kind of lunge for the web in one smith's and they would have been done she swung at the observations didn't hit him i never saw any contact
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with you do you any kind went back to where they were so the officers back here there try again fifteen feet apart at this point and that's when the officer pulled his gun in the behind tree. just financial survival. now. that's undercutting not what's good for markets it's not good for the global economy. welcome back in paul one we have from professor danny dorling on the effect the brics it may have on britain's future prosperity but it wasn't meant to be like this claim lex it's supporting bricks it is shooting for the stars exiting the neo
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liberal you project was supposed to be multicultural and invigorating for britain's working classes in the heartlands of the north of england my next guest is a musician from the north without whom there may never have been a ziggy stardust on the week of the third anniversary of david bowie's death we caught up with woody woodmansee the last surviving spider from to discuss how working class music culture helped create four of the most iconic albums of all time would be welcome to going underground never in viewed a spider before have to say tell me about the two of us. in february. during lots of different places and. all around the world. we're doing two tours of america. three tours in the u.k. and we stepped into europe last year tony visconti the legendary producer is with us and glen green. yourself were actually part of it all and you've added len gregory famous for having seventeen we satirize the hatches economic policies in
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the eighty's when did when did. it by accident it was in a plan to do an interview for the instant contemporary. and i thought that's a bit you know from a but. talked me into i did it did put a band together with a name and musicians like from belong day. one of spandau ballet steve norman paul bob geldof's guitarist and they were it did they did a festival with under the banner of the institute and they said well why don't you come and do two numbers so i went and did a couple of songs at the festival and i was amazed because i'd played the song for like a couple of decades you know the audience response was response was that manson and a lot were teenagers and then we had to go off and tow with long day so they said will you get the drummer in your own band and i went yeah as long as of the after all dish and you know these are the some of the most classic albums of all time
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certainly by david bowie the first hunky dorey and a lot and and i hadn't seen any of the oddest but you and the other spite is will from yorkshire famously from south london yeah you had to come down south had to go up north to find talent you know yeah that's how i got out of it saying it doesn't i love the music executives probably see it well i'm going to ask about whether things have changed but why is it you had to come to london well it does as i mean like the beatles left liverpool the consideration was you couldn't really make it from whole or manchester or whatever so you had to make the old you nose and just kind of leap towards you know which was a big go payable in those days what was the culture shock i mean i was born in a. an agricultural town called driffield which was outside old so. you know going to whole was a bit of a culture shock really well no. no no yeah. but it had
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a good music scene at that sounded hold there was a lot of kind of underground things happen and. and then. as i replaced one dreamer and abandoned holy went down to london to make it and was doing demos for david he was trying to make that move from acoustic. guitars really to being a rock n roll and we make them myself and being in that was our roots from blues to that zeppelin jimi hendrix old rock stuff so it kind of fitted it was i didn't like folk music i would still go on a photo but. actually sold a i. know obviously i don't know. i mean when i first met david i was in jeans with ripped holes and patches in a smelly t. shirt that was my stage we probably had them for ten days you know that was that
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was made rock'n'roll and he met me at the door in a rainbow t. shirt. bangle red corduroy trousers he had red shoes on and he obviously painted his own stuff on the top of his shoes. and it was that was a bit of a culture shock see him now but i had this list you know i didn't know much about him apart from you dad oh it was kind of a one hit wonder thing or that was the idea right because of the time of his baseline and yeah yeah but would he ever do it he told you to dress like. he was one of the spiders at a dress they did but he didn't you know if you did don't hold the date yet if they did then all those changes in one saturday afternoon would have all been back on the train and you know like you did yeah he did a few sketches were watching a movie any prospect them said what do you think and i didn't join the dots about
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the point now where you know nice you know but like the beatles were space boots on type thing and then two days later we were in liberties in london in the material department with him and i'm g. and he's possibly rose material going what do you think to the. woody and i'm like well get new curtains or grab the flat looked a lot but i didn't join the dots. i mean eight it was an educational trip really it want it is on the same page to be able to throw ideas and so after is losing he said oh we're going to see a play and i said i'll grab it with that cold he said i've no idea. why we're going to say that he said because the lighting diet is the best one in london at the moment i want to study the lion and see how it changes the audience reactions because i want i'm going to be asking you what color we should use during so i'm going to push out to go at the time britain was going through i mean nowadays it's yeah to say because it's going to recession then obviously the recession now is the
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living standard living wages are going on the yes the napoleonic wars the decline not quite as bad as that of the seventy's yet it was that was all colorful dark period yeah i mean pub the thing was to brighten up but right now the business you know give the rock'n'roll business a kick up the backside throw a bit control who say out that just to stay because that's what it was always been to some degree but it got a bit bleak you know the whole coal thing and you know a big bomb and at the time they would have like a red light a yellow light and a green one and if they had a bit of money it did have a strobe light and for the on call ad in was go and you know where it was we you know he took his in to fit proper theatrical langton so it it made it look larger than life more effects and it was always done to push the song that was always the intention does it get the song across to the outfits get the attention and then you rebel to put the music across yes so all those things were you know there's no talk
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these days that only people from elite the one percent can get into music or food to be in music why do you think. i mean he himself. wasn't was i guess what would you call it middle class why did he want it work with three guys who spend their teenage years in hell rather than some way i guess he was a visionary and he sold the talent. the talent is there i maybe it worked it didn't your albums and they hadn't gone anywhere problem space oddity not to now sit with it you tried a few session musicians in a different line ups and i think we because our roots were in blues and top ten stuff because she did cobras in those days but our bass was like the stones the bay owes that blend it was hendrix it was all in the blues if you could play the blues and understand it and feel it then when somebody brought a song but wasn't blue you could at least find the emotion and you could find what
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the guy was trying to say and how many did it take to records it. it took two weeks from record in and mix and it was finished i think we only recorded for about four days we never did a song more than three times in the studio it was nowadays they do what i can do ninety and then couldn't paste stick it together and get all the best bits. so we had to get it something like stamina jean genet they were first that was the first time i'd ever heard it and played it you know so you learn to play it you learn on the edge and that's what you wanted won't you know when we first recorded live we would go up to the control room and say let's have a listen to what we've just done on that song and i would go oh i thought it did i wasn't too sure about. let's go do on and he would go no that say it and i go what do you mean you know that's the first time we played it the correct it's the first
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time we played it and you go that's why i won't let me put my twelve string on it and he do that you go well that's nice and he got i'll do a vocal and then go down and do a book full under thing would just take on a life of it so it was like bigger than the sum of its products and nearly every track we did and i realised he wanted that you know when you're creating anything you get the idea you get the inspiration you radiate you doing it but like if you're doing it fifteen times by the fifteenth were you thinking about what you did on the third one you were you were already you attribute to yourself but you want to you know he wanted the freshness they want to you on the edge and he wanted it what do you feel like play and now you know and we did everything i could ask you about so many different songs you will have a story about each one but life is his name checks explicitly a political figure arguably cleanin and has become such
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a big song in this year and you want to do it as danny boyle wanted in the twenty twelve olympics but he said no he wouldn't turn up the woman would you make of that song when he suddenly tells you well after as well i was booked are introduced. to all the other you have to be honest romas have to go to the yeah exactly in rhythm yeah he had a piano in one room guitar in the oh that and he was doing a lot of fun miles but playing keep on kate it was a. like a brilliant period missed and then we had mickey mouse has grown apart and it's like ok what's weird you know i when we finished we've got rick management in obviously to play piano and he just took the piano part to another level and the whole string section lifted and we were trying to get a rock flying with the classical thing so that it really integrates. mixed you pulled as into air and i remember growing. up you know it was so.
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different to what was around then and and when you talk about going down and shout this as or things have changed much in hull and in the north of england when it comes to a divided cluster vital music i know you've been in southern rating hell culture it was the city of culture it it's. it's probably so it's so for the because of the fission thing that was the man with the yeah you know. a lot of it is great and it's just trying to stick it said down the some good things now you know there's some good companies have moved in and the thing is picking up the festival for them about what five months ago there were two hundred seventy bands in the hole which is i was like oh my dog you know would you have been say thank you thank you very much spider for maz what he would see there and you can get
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tickets now for his february tour is part of holy holy accompanied by the producer of heroes and low tony visconti and heaven seventeen frontman glen gregory that's of the show will be back on wednesday russophobia imposed threat to trade with russia's former deputy prime minister arkady dvorkovich until that keep in touch by social media will be back on wednesday is today that burnt to death but how does he formally the youngest of a female m.p. was shot fourteen times in front of a children by british army or the trees. when they came back from iraq. marijuana her way cocaine methamphetamine anything that's altering trying to get us out. that
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bad. use of the chemical that would be self medicating. going to be drinking and drinking enough just killing myself. drink to get drunk alcoholics drink to feel normal. that's why it's this way drug addicts. shot while surfing the net. star cool under which these guys are going through to do it it just needs to. they just need to be helped and not get pushed on by the v.a.'s r.'s drugs bill and stuff they need to be built. and they this really shouldn't be looked at like numbers they should be looked at like people if they go to a veteran center for health issues be considered as someone who really needs attention and. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy one from day shouldn't let it be an arms race is on often spearing dramatic development only
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closely i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. wolf like there's someone else living inside of me or controlling my body. the byproduct of that drug is the cause like some peer pressure. because that little you need him into a zombie is crazy. you know we don't have to do anything it's not our fault you know she is crazy and all that. here's traumatic takes a long time to get rid of. what
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. little most of them. for the. us media pressure on. suppress the details of. publishing a complete guide to impeachment.


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