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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  April 12, 2019 12:30am-1:00am EDT

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an american ambassador to canada. ambassador it's great to talk to thank you very much for the real pleasure now you made quite a splash resigning from your position last year as citing the difference in values between you and president trump and valleys especially american values a very broad concept the russians it is sometimes difficult to grasp was there anything specific that made you quit. there were a number of factors nobody decides to leave a thirty year professional diplomatic career based on just want to vent in my case i was very concerned during the election about the rhetoric that i heard the president using with regard to building a wall on our southern border i had served in mexico twice i knew the country well i knew how well and green we were in terms of our economy in terms of the flow of goods and people legitimate goods and people across the border as well as
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illegitimate drugs and human smuggling but i also knew how important how vitally important mexico is to the united states and vice versa so i was very concerned about the wall i was with them in their will doesn't mean cutting diplomatic trade ties with mexico does well the president has threatened to do many many things but threatening and doing are two different things what was my catalytic moment was had nothing to do with the wall it had to do with the riot curd in charlottesville there were neo nazis who marched and sadly one woman was killed by somebody who ran a rover with a car and the president did not condemn it. and that is what triggered me to say if he doesn't condemn the neo nazis then i don't believe that i can represent him over she i have a sense that you also had the issues of his. personality because in one interview you compared him to the loss or after he. sees every known person as
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a threat ready to kill anyone who doesn't show him deference and so with claim that the united states has little tolerance for challengers i mean they have the history of the united states in latin america provides many of examples don't you think that trump reflects some. characteristics of the united states as a country the style of it's in the neighborhood around the world i would suggest to the putin doesn't accept challengers very well either that's not a. very very different styles i think i disagree i think they have a very similar style and their defense is not very bombastic tromp is bombastic but it's that idea of not brooking dissent of not accepting when there is criticism of shutting down media outlets in russia or in the united states calling it fake news and shouting everybody. so i think they're very similar but they have
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different styles but ok but doesn't own style reflects something about the way the america historically has been the. neighborhood supporting the united states does not have like no nations has an unblemished record in latin america but if you take a look the united states has a self correcting ability that very few empires and i'm going to use that word empire united states doesn't hold terrain outside the united states the way previous did but the united states undeniably has deep economic relations with latin america we have the largest number of free trade agreements in latin america we have supported democracy in latin america over the last seventy years and if you take a look if you take a look at the last coup that the united states did actively support in correctly it was a bad decision i'm not here to defend it was nine hundred seventy. three well it was
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in latin america but later on president obama was somebody who was much better received by the world. he was talking about changing the way that america the united states of america just with the world i think that was a major part of. the last office re grabbing a policy decision on libya which turned out the country into a complete chaos i guess my question to you is is that really about values because there is a i think your question. is an american value that speaks to pushing us towards war and in the. answer is absolutely not if you look on balance which is the only way you can assess and remember we all live in democracies in the western hemisphere. on four and five year political cycle or so go over the whole history of the united states in the world i
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unabashedly say we are a force for good well i'm not ready to go and i'm actually not claiming that the united states is a force for bad but if you look at the very very very long history of cia support of coups in latin america which sometimes deposed democratically elected government supported military regimes can you know can you name them well many of them argentina in no not a coup not united states in the they were number one. fifty four nine hundred seventy three and the only reason i know this is because that's where i've spent i'm sure your knowledge of latin america is my. mind but i spent a lot of time in arab countries in syria in libya a little bit in iraq some time in afghanistan and i can tell you that there is that police is no limits and. you don't have to be an expert in the region the united states has deployed its military power and its diplomatic power and its economic power around the world for many many. years in support of what we consider to be
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a liberal world and it's been credited with that yeah. perceptions i don't need to argue about that what i'm my point is that the americans regretted what they'd done on many many occasions iraq would be one of them libby is another one president obama had the courage to recognize that this was the biggest. vietnam there is in retrospect but i think it's fair to say that every country looks back on its history with what we call twenty twenty hindsight and sees where things could have been done better or decisions were made for the united states is not every there are very few countries that. military invasion zones other countries as liberally as the united states has my question is different why do you think that americans find it so hard to resist that urge to bestow their values you know that's a marvelous question generals always fight the last war in the united states it
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tends not to be the generals who decide to go to war we have a complete subordination of the uniformed services to the civilian elected democratic leadership one of the reasons i think that happens and i would disagree with you that the united states is the most overtly interventionist is there anything to disagree with who is the most overtly interventionist. let's take a look at where but i mean you're talking about saying it's not i'm talking about a good looking about scale i'm talking about the times where you deploy national power that's not necessarily just an invasion that can be poisoning somebody in london that can be exporting revolution to cuba and putting missiles and. that's not going to i mean we understand to say that one is right and one is wrong and. that's not that's not just that they go. to use that power to advance their
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interests while i think there is a legitimate question of whether you can use foreign invasions to. enhance your interest. well crimea is like. our declared independence and on not incorporated into russia that they're not today but was there an invasion there not at all there was a warlord initiated by georgia was recognized by the european union i was covering that horse. show but you do not deny that in fear of influence russia routinely deploy you know military well i would absolutely deny saying its right. solution and so tell me why there are one hundred right now one hundred russian military men in venezuela living me perfectly to my next question i want to leave the un recognized government of the seller has
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a military cultivation agreement with the un recognized government of russia international law allows certain governments to maintain so if they. win withdraw its recognition because fifty four countries have recognized one goh i do as the legitimate president of the united nations leave tomorrow and the united nations withdraw i think the russians will take a note of that but since you mentioned me as ella because many of my questions were sort of leading to the main theme of their station mr trump. sort of the conversation it's important the regime change in a minute and you said that once this could actually be a case where the administration has gotten something right what is that something that something is that they are not militarily invading elliott abrams who is the counselor for venezuela has testified twice in open court. invasion is not the
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preferred way to go forward hang on let me answer. the second in south com southern command which is the military command that works in latin america with our military cooperation agreements with sovereign countries recognized by the un they do not have a war planning cell number three you have the. secretary of state who has said publicly on several occasions this cute line and they say all options are on the table how long have we been engaged in this several months have they done it now you know. really you know the history of latin america much better than i do and you know the history of us and you don't necessarily need to send troops like it happened in panama. if you say let's go we do you can't you can send a small contingent of you know well trained guys and that would still work in deposing like ninety nine russian soldiers well to go after one could that be
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could that ninety nine group be a group of guys who are very well trained who could. work for this state affiliated television then i can only tell you my personal opinion but if i should does it i think that would be wrong and that would be represents an interference in the end we are as americans because if the united states invades i think that would be disastrous and it would be wrong apart from invasion the united states historically employed for example economic warfare with very little regard for humanitarian suffering. ca as i said was involved around the continent extensively come on just in cuba they have been involved in cuba you mean where we have been we've had our diplomats attacked with potentially huge history on what you think. you're doing with donald trump you're saying huge i'm saying there's two and a mask. it is
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a third well documented. of cia involvement in trying to assassinate fidel castro. actually don't have enough time to name it i don't think you will have to go with that for several days you said who's ok the united states for many years trying to join to the leader of a foreign country even attempted school shooting but what i'm saying is you would have delays here huge and then at the same time give me three or four examples over a hundred year period because that's what you're doing if i were to say that peter the great ok your great russian tsar was a marvelous man because he dragged russia into the sphere of europe and you say wait a minute he didn't really succeed we're still the never told we're still russians he didn't give us western values and i say no no no but he did because he really tries a very simplified understanding of peter the great i come from st peter's were very good build my own city but he did it as an enormous cost and a lot of people died while trying to build that city but you're making my point i'm
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not even a simple point that the united states has invaded repeatedly i didn't say you gave it as a libertarian or i said interfere curve earthly economically diplomatically into the affairs of many many election american countries and that's a statement of fact you can no debate that i mean anyone who has the minimal off know it's our history will agree with me and i'm sure you agree with me as well you're just being a contrarian here but. i mean i'm a former diplomat i would never do that but you're also a special kind of deploy an ambassador can we take a very very short break now but we will be back with this very spirited conversation in just a few moments stay tuned. most
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people have this picture of the. rather remote part of the world probably the part of the planet where we have sheen in geo political economic. transformative. picture. much more than.
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welcome back to one's apartment asking the question about the car what kind of tools of change you would support in the case of venezuela economic deprivation economic warfare. called verdant cia action you said that you're an old in support of the military invasion but i think that would still be can contingent on what's happening in the country or strictly again regardless of what happens sure i remain very much opposed to military intervention militarily we clearly have the. very
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militarily. we could kill madeira we could arrest madeira we could not going to go to float is ok i am opposed to it because i fundamentally do not believe it is in u.s. interests there are several issues at play in venezuela one is the terrible terrible humanitarian state into which venezuela has fallen under the regime of the first to go childish and. that alone in my opinion is not a justification for an american invasion what is there is at this point there is no justification but that you still support the. president constitutionally article two thirty three of the venezuelan constitution says that when a president is either incapacitated or arrives in office by illegitimate means now the world the un the oas international observers they. may know they have you know they made very and i'll tell you this the funny thing is that maduro might have
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actually won that election on his own but he read the election he kept the ballots out he didn't allow but his state to come in and so forth they let you know that it was one of the only reason that i really should have the constitution so you now have who is the legitimate president and he even is the person in the case and mr maduro said disputes that but even if that is the case that happened to him a number of countries that the united states made no noise about i mean the elections in egypt for example have also been questionable the last elections but the united states played along rather the united states doesn't play along the united states. lays along with any of trumpeting the democratic values unless. it is meant that i initially rejected that is compelling long. as it is in keeping with its own interests and again the history of latin america provides ample exam.
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some of which we discussed but let me ask you a policy a broader policy question because power transitions are always very precarious especially in a country is asked polarized as venezuela facing as enormous economic differences difficulties as. do you have confidence that they trump administration has what it takes to guide us through these power transitions that the two previous american administrations the bush administration and the obama administration failed so miserably because the united states tended to bring democracy to iraq to bring democracy to libya that failed does the trumpet ministration half what it takes to you guys when you sell it through the democratic transition without major bloodshed there without major shocks to its economy by itself no the united states is not the protector of venezuela the united states is a very powerful country that has a responsibility in its fear of influence in the western hemisphere to work with the lima group to work with the oas the organization of american states to work
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with fellow democracies to provide a humanitarian support that minutes we desperately need because nicolas maduro and his cronies have stolen all of the money but there are a lot of no no no no no no no what he. mentioned an important point a lot of money is frozen abroad if you're so concerned about humanitarian suffering some of those funds could be it will eventually do it so you're be happy to know that's what we're attempting to do that's a big part of our policy you might remember. elliot abrams on the phone they asked him the same question now realize there baiting him they're trying to get him to say something that's going to be embarrassing about american policy they're trying to get him to say that yet really look we're doing all this but what we really want to do is invade and then fully believing that he is talking to senior swiss bankers says look we're really not going to invade what we want to do is freeze the money in your banks in switzerland so that we can provide it to the legitimate government in good humor. terry needed until there's the that's the policy and this is why for
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as much as i dislike donald trump i have to be honest enough to say that on venezuela so far his administration is getting it right that the administration officials over the last couple of here over the last couple of weeks made a statement something with regard to the russian presence on the ground in the not only military presence but also canonic presence and it's essentially. dahlan to a call for russia to pack up and leave if you are so concerned about people in israel and why wouldn't it be a bad idea to get china russia turkey iran and all those countries on board to put pressure on moderates or how human can all make lead to help him with advise on how running how to run that he's economy and do something you know a collective international action that would actually benefit people venezuela rather than benefiting the american interest there because that mission is pretty
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clear that what they're after there is not democracies not some sort of values but it's economic interests first of all why wouldn't they i wish they would i wrote a column in univision a couple of weeks ago where i said if i were them i said my next phone call would be to mr putin and mr hu the two largest creditors to the mature regime and i would talk to them and i would say look. we all have our interests the biggest interest in venezuelan oil is russia next session that's a fact so you have been running. i mean is it not i suppose it is isn't it he went and russia gave soft loans that the venezuelans now campaign actually you're not getting paid what i said in my column was that the world should address the humanitarian crisis and that the next call that i would make if i would mr peo would be to miss. a lot of and i would have the russians the chinese the biggest
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creditors the united states the lima group all of these countries i would have them work to deliver humanitarian aid to effect a peaceful transition a transition and this is not happening you understand i don't know i don't understand it's not happening and i think that's a shame but you know why it's not happening it's not happening because nobody of those three major powers but remember they're not the only ones who count but nobody has yet seen that there's safety in an outcome why because maduro will not give up power if moscow were to offer you could ask mother would. and a little country home and to be able to take a certain amount of money and live comfortably. do you think he would leave i think that would be a very corrupt offer i think it should be up to the people of the to decide who they want to be allowed by and i agree there should be an elections but. i also think that you should not have elections every time when the united states doesn't
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like the results oh no but this wasn't the united states this was the national assembly that nicolas maduro out any country where. there are major questions about the competence and mental fitness of your own president he was accused just a short while ago of being essentially installed by a foreign nation and yet that's wasn't good enough for mr warner i think mr interest happily let's say i'm very happy about the results of the molar report i'm very happy that we had a deep investigation i'm sure he still hasn't released these reports i think there are many russians who have well i have to say if we're talking about obviously i mean doesn't wasn't good enough reason for interference you would be appalled at the thought of somebody interfering into the political or economic affairs of your own country would you absolutely why should it be the case for the venezuelans why shouldn't they be allowed to sort it out for themselves so we had our wish and that is a realization that you should ask the venezuelans because right now according to viktor
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and that analysis which is the only polling company left in venezuela seventy five percent of the venezuelan people want a u.s. invasion i live in miami there are literally hundreds of venezuelans who are living in miami who have fled their country i am telling you and you can disagree with me but they all want the u.s. to invade venezuela and are dying venezuelans are hungry venezuelans have no penicillin venezuelans have no schools the economy is completely broken down if you were in that situation you would want to. know i mean i don't know where you saw many american the wars and every time i heard this same argument the problem with that is that once the united states interferes it's not getting better its usually gets worse that's a. panama nine hundred eighty nine the united states when a country where i was the ambassador nine hundred eighty nine the united states when they took out they arrested manuel and they brought him there not including
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relationships with the united states. he was a cia about speaking about value he was a cia operative who went wrong who went bad that he began to traffic drugs so we arrested him we brought him to miami we tried him twenty five years later panama is about to celebrate its perfectly peaceful perfectly democratic transition in may that's a success story you can't deny that if you take a look at what the united states did after the central american wars we supported democracy in all of those countries and what did we do wrong and i'm the first to admit we focused too much on the counter-narcotics aspect of it and not enough on building institute and i'm sure our viewers in comments to this show will let you know what the united. and how many of them watch i'm pretty sure it's. going to be an authentic response we only have a minute left and i have i guess
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a space for only one question william burns president obama's deputy secretary of state he recently warned about policy risks in venezuela saying that trump could make the same mistake a bamma did in syria going in getting involved without having a coherent plan doesn't give you pause for thought absolutely you won't be surprised that bill burns was my former boss and i share his opinion as i've said several times in this interview i fundamentally disagree with the u.s. invasion not because it wouldn't be but it wasn't proper i mean formal invasion it was all sorts of ways of trying to you mean like i should diplomatically. we're not diplomatic in syria the barrel bombs came across as part of an irregular warfare look we can point back and forth all you want i am saying very clearly i do not support a u.s. invasion in venezuela because it is contrary to u.s.
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interests i mean even putting the invasion aside do you think the united states has a case here at this point has a coherent plan of interacting regime change in venezuela by canonic means by diplomatic means doesn't look like. it has its structural supported the united states is supported by virtually all there are only three countries and that of course can be very well again you know but the iranian regime not to you was supported by everybody in the region but it still failed miserably in terms of conducting its policy you like that don't you miserably but then when you look united states has international support to support the military in venezuela the plan is one it's labeled little pieces it's this is it is not a plan written in washington that's good i believe the plan should be written by the legitimate representatives of the venezuelan people which is the national assembly not the bogus constitutional assembly that president maduro set up when he
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didn't like the results of the election in may and you do believe that this plan whoever writes that should be put to the venezuelan people will make a decision on that we can agree we can agree but we have to leave it here ambassador it's been a great pleasure the real pleasure thank you so very much appreciate it and preserve years to keep this conversation going in our social media pages our. same place same time here in the worlds apart. it is finally how often julian assange was arrested within the dorrian embassy in
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london is widely expected he will be extradited to the united states to stand trial expected charges are espionage this is truly a dark day for journalists and journalism. you know world of big. and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. and nine allegedly linked to wiki leaks founder julian assange is arrested in there
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that just hours off the police drank the whistleblower himself out of the south american countries embassy in london where he'd been holed up for almost seven years. that works. as long as faces charges both in the u.k. and in the u.s. with politicians ounce human rights groups expressing concern that a dangerous precedent has been set by his arrest. a military coup seized the downs president a restaurant emergency room.

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