tv Cross Talk RT April 19, 2019 4:30am-5:01am EDT
are never satisfied but a few things are for sure confidence in government has taken a hit and the reputation of the media may never be redeemed. stocking russia gate i'm joined by my guest here in moscow dmitry babich he is a political analyst with sputnik international in london we crossed alexander macarius he is a writer on legal affairs as well as the editor in chief of the duran dot com and in new york we have don de bar he's an anti-war activists and host of the daily radio program all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate alexander mackerras let me go to you in london happy no collusion day i think we'll make it official holiday all right. but you know you wrote to me earlier this was the biggest fishing expedition that caught no fish at all except for and we'll talk about it with dmitri it's still russia's fault that's what the report says alexander make errors you have
a great legal mind can you just sum it up if possible i know you read the report last night go ahead. yes i read the report i phone it relentlessly hostile to donald trump in a way that i actually i found slightly shocking you have the first part of the report in which are and he's team look of follow up every suggestion of contacts between the russians and the donald trump campaign and you get almost a sense of disappointment when they repeatedly come up with nothing and then the second part of the report is an extraordinary academic exercise i should say a flawed academic exercise in my opinion in which outbursts of anger on the part of an innocent man to say don't drum construed as some sort of attempt at obstruction even though there is actually no attempts to impede miller and his team in doing
anything and none of the threats that donald trump talks about from john to on the bow sacking will ever actually amount to anything so i mean i found it actually a rather disturbing document but the important point to get to get to understand is that even this extremely aggressive very hostile team of investigators clearly out to find something against donald trump and to create some kind of collusion narrative are in the end unable to do so and they can't even convincingly construct an obstruction narrative only ever dream of but it's also clear in the report that russia is culpable to one degree or another they're pretty murky in talking about connections to we keep the leaks and then there are the parts that have to do with g.r.u.
that's what they call the russian agencies redacted so it's pretty much a mystery right there but it's very leading isn't it go ahead. well not only the part about you is redacted there is a whole page devoted to you have given you pretty gorge and that scene is to cuckoo from the kremlin. back to the american election and you only have the name you have given you pretty gorgeous in there and the rest of the page is just black and so it was hilarious story that but i think even more if you areas you know for the financial times has the least all of the cases of russian involvement in the election and i'm just going to go with it because i can't quote of course the whole report but it's pretty much it's pretty precise so these russian efforts consisted in invitations for campaign officials hundred percent of the us or the russian government to meet invitations for kenya to trump and putin to meet in person and this is the most awful thing board you see position seek an improved us russian
relations all fool you know all fool and the biggest crime mentioned in this report is that curial dimitrios you know the head of russian agency for their wrecked investment he has gone and all of this from president putin to seek reconciliation with the united states so this is just awful and the report says you know the whole business listen to some of mr conversations and he called putin the boss you know a russian state official called to tell the boss he's a criminal all the misery you know the united states doesn't have to worry about getting involved in the wars in libya in iraq. and this is not important ok is important is that he called putin the boss and he wanted to improve russia u.s. relations ok if not i got you don this is taxpayers' dollars at work here i mean this is trivial i mean it was worse than trivial because it really showed the how
well we'll find out to what degree the government tried to. did invent all of this against donald trump i mean with that team that miller had and its expense account and they gave us this drivel go ahead on. it's worth a lot worse if you ponder what what the miter just said. and then read further into the say just into the executive or some of the thing where they do interpretation. one of one of the it's like self throws it so that the kremlin had motive to do this thing because they felt that trump would have a more favorable foreign policy towards russia than clinton would well you know clinton's foreign policy could be deduced from the foreign policy that was in place while she was secretary of state when her husband was president then well you bomb
administration was in power which is the movement of troops that material up to russia's borders while the war game from the baltics the korean peninsula to me that looks extremely intimidating and someone that would recommend that there was some other way of engaging between the u.s. and russia suddenly that's evidence of a crime or of a mindset for a crime rather than sanity i mean that all by itself isn't even subtle and it's a frightening thought but as terms of proof what they were referring to both and you're at the mitri you have. a situation in there where it's akin to saying hillary clinton prefers to sleep with goats we have photographs see exhibit a and you got it was a bit of a and it says you know react lead back as it means ok elegant alexander the the that it's really quite amazing if you watch like c.n.n. and m.s.m. b.c.
it's is it is as if the last two and a half years didn't happen because now it's all about obstruction i mean there's no reflection there's no inward looking how they botched this i mean fuelled it on can help create this this hoax they do. it's very dangerous for international affairs i mean you know we've seen that we're the new cold war i mean that's and it's because of all of this it in something that was completely invented out of nothing so now it's obstruction gate and we're going to get two more years of bad i'm sick and tired of this story no evidence stop it it's move on go ahead in london. what only obstruction and i absolutely agree with you i mean i personally think that he's going to be impossible to sustain substantiate to sustain this instructional argument for any length of time i say that because the what and he's people have done is that they've parodied all out with very very very complicated
legal arguments full of citations of cases all intended to make it look very impressive in reality on the anybody who understands this area of the law can see one through it very very fast the fact is there was no underlying crime and i think that's absolutely clear if you look at the first vote of the report the second part is donald trump was clearly an innocent man out knew he was an innocent man and thirdly he did next do anything i mean he threatened and talked and stormed and thundered about it but nothing actually happened because he would give instructions to various people they would refuse to carry them out because i'm pretty sure they knew that they weren't to be taken seriously and in the end donald trump pulls back and miller goes on unimpeded and gets everything heals swore there's apparently no
a use of executive privilege privilege to withhold things roll him he's able to see everything he's able to do everything he gets says and donald trump that he doesn't really like but you know that's donald trump. but really as of the g. under interrogation act you know how the end of the day you simply can't see obstruction here there's no real evidence of it so i think if the democrats in the media want to flowing with this one this is not going to get anywhere with it because it isn't the american people are going to be a tool interested in something that never happened something that never happened to conceal a conspiracy which didn't exist yet it is it's really the highest level of being in denial because if the underlying narrative main is maintained that well we
don't know exactly what it did and we can't really show you but it's their fault in a way it keeps this ridiculous narrative going because they have nowhere else to go because they're not going to apologize for what they did. well basically i don't want our viewers to get an impression that we justify everything in drum dhea to you know no no we consider him a good target of that now but mostly he hang on to my debts a really good point and we could make a lot of programs with what donald trump has done wrong and even in his illegal foreign policy we could go on and on and on about that but this is about the rule of law keep going so we have actually what we're seeing is a clash between two very bad factions i'm sorry it's like hitler having a conflict with a room the kind of strong group us in one thousand and thirty four war trump and his opponents were very aggressive in their foreign policies they basically destroyed several contests well just didn't destroy any new ones but he continued. the so-called operations in syria and in many other places but what happened is
that basically we have these these factions clash and and they use ridiculous arguments i mean from this report the most interesting part for me was what actually my. michael flynn was talking about with the russian ambassador the city gate he said you know we were told that this was terrible that they said wall street isn't you know fleeing misinformed the vice president actually friedan try to talk the russians into a veto and pulling in iraq a notion which was good for raising well ok so we don't look for him not to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the russia gate ochs with r.t. .
after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next the multiple different clubs on one hand it is logical to sit in the home field where everything is familiar on the other i wanted a new challenge and the fresh perspective i'm used to surprising people and i saw one on t.v. . i'm going to talk about football not the or else you can think i was going to the. by the way what is it that slide here. this. is were for books with the i'm just at the to
everybody used. cocaine you can smoke it to six words like fifteen thirty. twenty. k. to this is about. a fifteen people smoked this one figures a sweetie you go for these drugs in any city in the united states that you walk along as you or want to get the. make money. and that's what. seemed wrong. when all the old just told. me you get to shape out these days become educated and engagement equals betrayal.
when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle term and you were discussing the russia gate hoax. you know down in it nowhere in the report that we did we learned that the the people looked into the f.b.i. not taking a look at the d.n.c. servers and if we could get that whole issue resolved definitively then it would take on a very different direction but we don't get there and it's i get the impression that they're relying upon crowd strike which is obviously a tainted organization so it was some one of the most fundamental simple things to
resolve was not even looked into and not resolved go ahead don well. first of all alexander had crew actually correct the. emphasis on the fact that this whole thing was taking place in front of the american public does nothing to address the actual concerns of the american public they were they could care less about russia good they want to know you know where the next meal's coming from and how their rent their mortgage paid to college tuition health care and the democrats are serving up still russia gate moeller and all that i think that it's very very important to understand the significance of the declaration by bar that he's now going to be looking into the other side of the point which is you know what your it's a meeting should have been done inside of this study that is you almost in plain view you had a privately assembled funded by the d.n.c.
and by one of the republican candidates smear report on trump that was shepherded to the f.b.i. used as the basis for. or fraud in the inducement basically on the pfizer order to get a warrant to wiretap trump's campaign which but the obama administration which was actively campaigning for when in the position of having access through all of trump's communications that is something that you know makes watergate look yeah what happened here and that investigation is just about to begin you know a few months out from the beginning of the twenty twenty election so i think that if trump is able to satisfy the economic concerns of enough people in the right places you know. whatever calculus they use and ammar on this theme through the media as much as they can get it out i don't see how the democrats have
a chance to win next year unless they come across with some of these little actually satisfy people's needs is that it more rushing ok i see damon once a jumping ahead yeah i mean that media at. ups truck to justice you know he basically tried to obstruct the investigation of something that never happened to you know it's going to sit with rush right so that is absurd but what we're seeing now is basically the media obstructing justice because a lot of gave this press conference minutes before releasing their report and all of the media lashed out at him for what for saying that probably they were going to investigate the investigators that they were going to find out who started the whole confusion thing which is of any nature will move and body did nor did not in a new way distort the distance of the report they didn't fight and they didn't find any evidence of collusion but the media just at dak bar and i think it was
a classic case of us obstructing justice before that justice was even nolens to be served you know alexander donald trump throughout this time. period and his lawyers called it a witch hunt i think the term will stay in vogue because that's exactly what the media's going to say is investigating the investigators basically the obama administration they're going to call about a witch hunt and i think they will will get still very skewed coverage of it and don de bar is absolutely right people are not interested in this story they're being forced being forced to listen to it and do get involved in this political battle but the democrats have against this duly elected president so alexander i mean the the the media and the democrats they don't want the other shoe to drop they don't want the best gaiters to be investigated that's the only part of this whole tragedy that i am interested in because all of us on this program found
this hoax to be ridiculous from the get go go ahead in london what it will indeed and i mean don't is absolutely right about this because of course so many of the things that we are i would judge important on all actually in the report i mean to give you an example christof who steal and he's famous dosia which played such a big role in so many of the media stories back in two thousand and seventeen and which is used to pay the fines of warrants on counts of page it's barely mentioned i mean you don't have an admission for example the this report played any role to all triggering the investigation and that is mean and very flawed so it's as if it didn't exist and all the many of this sort of catalogue of characters. were involved in investigating this report in some tangential
way then only then will mention dolly so that of course we need to see prawle put. investigation into how this whole thing to call for in the way that it did leading to a report a four hundred twenty two page report. i mean must be tens of thousands of hours of investigations millions of dollars the intellect political system of the you know he states paralyzed foreign policy held hostage russian american relations brought the crisis all to achieve nothing nothing because there was nothing there and that really want to be something people should see looking into and of course you're absolutely right the media will oppose it for oceanus lee and i predict that
the witch hunt allegation will now switch to the other side the with far less justice because there's no doubt at all certain very unattractive things happen you know done i watched bars testimony in front of congress when he said really. very clearly and with great deal of confidence that trump administration had been spied upon now i don't know if our viewers saw the entire testimony but at the very end it congressman want to do you really want to change that word maybe you want to sit in your buying bar the only adult in the room it is refreshing to have an adult in the room for a change because we haven't seen it for a long long time he said no you can also be one spine whatever you want to god but we're going to look into that we're definitely going to look into i thought half the room was going to faith because we have enough we have enough evidence already in the public realm to know that that is that exactly what happened we just need to
connect all the dots and and have a a grand jury and start the investigation they now it's their turn to do some talking go ahead don. and see the this advantage that. the perpetrators of that. face the the disadvantages position that they occupy. basically rests on the fact that what they've done was assembled into a sworn affidavit and submitted to a court rather than a bunch of hearsay and collateral references through computer input in st petersburg and kiev and wherever else these various communications were supposed to take place in other words rather than just some amorphous allegations that can get strung together in a timeline that looks impressive but rests on no factual evidence there is an
affidavit sworn to you know with no to or with the notary at the end of it submitted to a court that could be presented these people actually did say these things to a court and here is the court order that they received that allows them to wiretap and hears the wiretaps these things exist in the material world and they can be dragged into a court room or before congressional committee and they can be exposed to the world and those things in my estimating that's looking at it right now but i think i see serial felonies there were helping a whole lot of players including a lot of people in congress who covered or did what knowledge of it and people in the media as well you know there was a conspiracy actually a grand conspiracy on a scale that we have never seen before and that it was to undermine the candidate in the in the opposition and a duly elected president this is far far bigger than watergate you know and when
people say oh there's no comparison there is a comparison and and watergate was a small beer ok because this isn't the kadir of all conspiracies and it's really real daemon. go ahead. i agree with you completely about also taking on water and xander said about the damage of the material damage done by this investigation it's not only thirty five million dollars which were paid for it officially it's not only thousands of working hours of joy in this you know the new york times sent a team to prague to find out if trump's official met with the russian representative there and they've never happened also don't forget there are sanctions imposed on russia to be exactly exactly collusion and the sanctions if we take into account the slavish polish of the european union which also impose sanctions these sanctions according to u.n. estimates cost about one hundred billion dollars to that to the western wall to the
european union and of course billions of dollars to russia so basically it's the damage from all of this story is huge and unfortunately it continues you know right before the report was released stephanie call and published a very good piece in the nation where he singled out three markers of lies that's what i would call it markers of the lies he hasn't read the report he hadn't yet read their ford report by that time but he said that if the old narrative about comparing russia gate to. harbor continuous if the so-called steel door see a continuous and if they continue to suspect people who met russians or who talked about drums business in russia to suspect them of crimes that means the whole story continues and unfortunately this is true you know every media outlet after the
release of the report which had the same stories in the press mentioning again michael cohen who who is now in jail in part because he did not reveal all the details about i'm quoting here. you know discussing gift in russia's president vladimir putin and fifty million pound calls them that sassy the right you sound like i have fractured it counted in here we have run out of time and this is it would be funny if it weren't tragic here many thanks to my guests here in moscow london and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember.
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midday from moscow that much much anticipated mother report this two years of media speculation. collusion between the twenty sixth presidential elections in the us but it hasn't silenced the attacks on trouble the democrats finding a new angle now. no collusion no obstruction president trump engaged in obstruction of justice certainly obstructed justice multiple attempts by the president to mislead the country. and headlines today described as an historic and moral duty by the great premier athens demands three hundred billion euros from germany in world war two reparation. generation.