tv Sophie Co RT May 20, 2019 11:00pm-11:31pm EDT
you have for a long time you can be really a civil war that continues for 4 months time. austria's governing coalition goes into a tailspin as the freedom party says all of its ministers are quitting in the fallout over video being against the party leader. testing the limits iran is quadrupling production of low enriched uranium as tensions with the u.s. ramps up and a nuclear deal on rivals. this week prosecutor seek arrest warrant for julian assange after reopening a rape investigation and setting the stage for an extradition fight with us. during the conversation on today's top stories are next on sophie and co a former top libyan politician shares his perspective on the country's lingering conflicts with .
the turmoil in libya has been dragged into a 2nd month old ready all diplomatic efforts fruitless in getting military strongman. the government in tripoli to negotiate what is a future hold for the war torn country will ask dr mostafa. former deputy prime minister of libya. the crisis in libya is fast becoming a stalemate with the forces of field-marshal stuck at the gates of the libyan capital and neither side able to inflict a decisive defeat on the other as foreign powers throw their backing behind both rival factions will the conflict between warlord and government drag on for years to come and events. they destroy any hope of building
a new state war torn libya or can the international community put aside differences for the sake of restoring peace and order to the beleaguered country. dr mustafa shah gore the former deputy prime minister of libya welcome to the show it's great to have you with us once again. thank you for having me so i have to our hasn't been able to break through police to fam so far but there is no sign of retreat and even called on his troops to battle harder during the ongoing month of ramadan he you've been saying that he will not be able to take over tripoli regardless of all the foreign support he enjoys what makes you think that. i mean i mean clearly the 1st 4 i mean this this attack on tripoli it is really it is a crime against the libyan people and it is done only for one reason is for mr have to take over the country to be to rule the country so it is done for the person of interest and of course i mean it is it has been going on now for 5 weeks
and he did not move any further than when he started and because clearly the be built in tripoli they don't want to have to take over there that their city they will are defending their city they are not allowing this the square criminals to come in and the others what he could support because we know i mean he spent 4 years in benghazi fighting the small group of people there with all the support he got from all his allies so this is again the same thing the problem is that innocent people in in tripoli in libya both from their tripoli and also from the troops who they came with have to or they are dying for no reason but for a personal interest and this is really the reality of the issue and so this war can continue for a long time but it got this what support he might get because you have about one
and a half 1000000 people living in the city of tripoli. and now clearly they are being bombed they and night innocent people are dying for no reason and this is clearly is a nonsense and higher than that but he has have to has a lot of support from the united arab emirates egypt saudi and i'm telling dries out he will certainly not given his libya now bogged down into another year as long tug of war. oh it can be it can be a can be a war for a long time and also the same time of course as you said that makes it he got all the support from all these countries plus of course the friends and also some support from from russia. and all the support is really the only result coming out from this is more libyan people are dying boat those who they are the finger tripoli are those who they are attacking to believe because both these are libyans and those who they are supporting cuffe that they have they don't care about libya
they don't care about the stability of libya the only thing the cure is about their own agendas. and so we might be bugged here for a long time can be really a civil war that continues for for a long time so so there is no chance for mr have to take over tripoli i mean that's will not happen and he tore a need to understand that and his allies they should stop supporting him and he promised them that enduring to be will take no time from him it will be just a few days day or 2 at the most notes it has been 5 weeks and he still exactly the same place who would he just i want to talk about that the international reaction because the united nations and the e.u. and nato are all calling for a cessation of hostilities in libya but not of them have openly denounce haft are why does international community for the most part see holly for have to are as a valuable asset some countries in the west they see him as
a message because really they would love to see a country ruled by a dictator so they can get whatever they want from him and of course at the beginning he convince them i mean all right though that his allies now becoming got say otoh he did this the foreign minister of the united arab emirates he said honey for huffed i did not take their permission to attack tripoli so clearly him and his allies know the realizing 1st of all that he does not have the power that he promised them that he does have and he cannot take tripoli in the short time that he promised them to do so right now clearly in the coming weeks we're going to see a lot of his allies going to back up and probably will start from supporting him. so when they saw us they would try to get as much as they can to keep it going so nato secretary-general stoutenburgh is rejecting any military solution to the libyan crisis but offers help in creating effective security institutions now taken that nato is a military alliance 1st and foremost it is really unclear whether start number and
implies military assistance to either side or diplomatic help does libya need help from nato yes or no no no i don't think the he does again i mean of course i don't have internal information but this is what my understanding of the situation overall i mean i think everybody is coming out and seeing libya cannot be there is no military solution for libya libya's have to be a political solution and unfortunately we were only about 10 days away from the united nations general conference in libya and of course have there at the time if he did not attack tripoli who would have been seething on the table that he could have been part of the solution for the future but right now clearly he he does not want to see a political solution and he thought that he would be able to take over the country so he'd become the ultimate dictator that's what so he cannot be trusted to be
a partner in any political solution so let's see let's see about his opponent the janie's prime minister fayyad south sarraj has been on here pain tour lately meeting french german italian and british leaders and all this to trying to gain their support against. but all they could give him was ruling out any military solution to the conflict and calling for dialogue. jaron they have international support only on a paper. i mean clearly the mean janet has a limited international support and because it's clearly those countries that you have mentioned i mean some of them are not immediately a part of this this discount flipped i mean clearly. britain they are more you know the more busy with the brics that the germans they never taken any really position politically in the sky and of course when it come to italy and france these are
clearly they are conflicting partners and each one of them look at libya as as a place of as a center of interest for them and so so i don't think that that their support clearly the support that can be done is from the international community from is really to tell mr have to or to back up to stop this nonsense to stop killing these innocent people both from these are all libyans i read it makes no difference can live i'm thinking of killing humans they're all dying for him do you think should the international community really wants to conflict to stop do you think they're really interested in this conflict to stop us. i believe many of the international community are interested to see this stop some of them for who they are supported and who they are a bankrolled the supplied with with the military equipment
maybe those they would like to see the conflict to continue but i think they are realizing many of them are realizing that khalifa haftar cannot take over 3 believe he cannot be able to do this so i expected them in the coming days and weeks they will back up and he will lose a lot of his international support and i think that international alliance that he has is starting to crack down so libya is obviously key for the west in preventing uncontrolled migration from africa to europe can this be the reason for the western powers staying on the sidelines to abstain from taking sides maybe. of course i mean with clearly mr huff that he promised them that he would take over he will stop this illegal immigration and so on and of course that's clearly is a problem for for for europe itself but of course the instability and what's going on right now is going to make the illegal immigration even to to to rise to
increase because i mean of course if you look at the last couple of months or so in the libyan navy we're blocking the lot of those immigrants and return them back into libya and so of course right though that is not going to happen and those people who would be very desperate because of the world that's going on because of all i mean as we know the the whole of how 2 forces they attacked some of the detention centers for the illegal immigrants and killed a number of them so a lot of those people know they're of so desperate and they might just go and try to take the risk to cross the with the training to go to europe so clearly it is not in their favor when stable libya can revive its protection for all of that and i think but but the instability and the war that's going on is not really have been this issue so france has been a long time sympathizer of have to and now the genie has threatened to suspend operations for $44.00 and companies in libya with french oil giant that that is
standing on to suffer the most it looks like prime minister seraj is hoping to ban paris to its costs hassett show than they write strategy. 1st of all i think the 1st they're not a sympathizer they're a real supporter i mean i mean clearly the have supported have taught during the war in benghazi and we know very clearly that some of french troops that they have been killed in that fight and of course they have the right there supporting him again and this war and to believe because and that's that's this where they are doing. and of course yes i mean clearly for us has a lot of economic interest in libya i mean true to target many other companies who they are working believe. and friends does not help to stop this conflict i mean i don't see the libyan people will accept to see the french companies are working to libya and making money and at the same time they are causing them to die and helping the person who wants to kill them all libyan just the power. all right
we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to dr mustafa or the former deputy prime minister of libya discussing the current situation in the country stay with us. over the years i've talked to you about the insects. of the economy where oh humans are becoming like them call the of insects. and that's all enabled by this 5 year old surveillance pretty cool right.
this is a story about what happens on a bullet kills a young girl in the streets. what happens to her family and daughters in florida you know the mother daughter is buried in a cemetery it really messes with your head what happens to the community the public was screaming for a scapegoat the police needed a scapegoat so why not choose a 19 year old black kid with a criminal record who better to than him and what happens in court be. shocked shocked as far as society. we don't know she'll share this truthful. end of this trial unfortunately you. will still love no children.
we're back with dr shah who are the former deputy prime minister of libya talking about the prospects for peace in a war torn country so you say that the only way to stop the leiby in turmoil is if the international community under united nations leadership puts pressure on have to but earlier this month just hours after the u.n. called for a truce have to are called on his troops to fight a bit harder this it would make sense to rely on the u.s. help here one nobody really seems to be listening to them. i think it is i mean libyans they have lost trust in the united nations because i mean clearly over the
last number of years they have not helped but libya to be able to get out of this this is the ability. that is it is there is a number of countries in the and the world it is united they it's for united states it is russia france it is britain and so on who can really a bully image abroad. and and this is clearly it is in their own best interest because a stable libya is a country that can be a very important ally to all of them for both for fighting terrorism which right now because of this war that's going on in the stability terrorism can increase on those people from isis and darshan and so on they can find places to move easily. and also the same time this is the the the libya. country stable libya which need to be developed it be built can open a lot of approaching it is for all these countries and their companies so i think
it is in the best interests of the international community especially the measure countries the major powers of the world is to come to help the libyan be able to stop this conflict to stop this war and clearly libyan people will be able to remember who will stand next to them and who will be held in those who are going to be killing them but in your opinion can any sort of confesses fair reach between now. and haftarah at this point without a 3rd party mediator. no i think that that needs immediate needs and that's where supposedly the united nations supposed to do is to become a really unbiased and fear mediator but of course unfortunately i mean clearly i mean the mr salami his ties with the united arab emirates does not make him the. past might be able to help in
that way. back home says he wants to meet after to discuss a cease fire and resume peace talks will have to listen to my call. will he listen to the other while he listened to the frail president at the uncovered no he is very desperate i doubt it i mean clearly mr mccrone gave have to resist the more than once. and then he sees that no he is did not listen to him according to of course the french they said also that have to ask them when he attacked tripoli even though there is evidence that they did but anyway. i don't think that have to right now have to he sees that his ambitions his. life goal to be able to become the day to flee bear is they mentioned and is is is not ever have been so he's desperate unfortunately only the forces that they fight for him for
his name are the ones who they are paying the price so in early april u.s. secretary of state mike compare was calling on have tar to call a face offensive but just a few weeks later donald trump talked to how the after of the phone and according to the white house statement praised his role in fighting terrorism and securing libya's oil resources i mean does that mean that washington is now batting on the marshall. clearly there as i mean washington has many different positions in this case and very conflicting we have seen the congress the foreign affairs committee they have a meeting they have a hearing and clearly they condemned what have i was doing and even some of them have a threatened that they going to ask the attorney general to investigate have tours and war crimes a libya since he is a u.s. citizen and clearly the going to ask the f.b.i. and also attorney general to do that so there is a movement in washington which might change the position. and of course we have
seen many times the the mr trump has changed his position from the his 1st instinct that he took place trying to like to be on the losing side we all know this by now so is washington support a sign that despite the fact there have to as armey has met stiff resistance it's actually on a path to winning no i think they clearly don't think they're betting in him winning i think things might change in washington itself and there is a lot of movement right though the different factions between the congress and the state department so on which are a little looking very closely to this and i don't think they believe that tuft of his is going to win because he is not. i'm sure they understand this but when it comes to libya foreign powers have been madly in its affair since the troubles began in 202011 now to have to has political and military backing from egypt like
was said the u.a.e. the saudi arabia qatar and turkey have thrown their weight behind the g.n.a.t. so it's a current conflict really a proxy war or for an actor's rather than merely domestic standoff. i mean did not get to the point becomes a brock's war but b. because clearly if you look at the as you said the position of the president of turkey of the foreign minister for judea. for a judea tripoli is a very symbolic position because it supported the evolution no the sea the trouble is being bombed by the forces so i don't write that with is not a proxy war yet but i'm worried that this could be very long drug war might become ibrox would these countries and maybe others now you've been telling me that the foreign interference is only exacerbating tensions in libya but this by the number of resolutions the u.n.
has passed imposing arms embargoes and defying any foreign interventions in libya is affairs weapon still flow into the country could a un peacekeeping mission help here i mean why wouldn't the jane eyre request a un peacekeeping mission. no i mean clearly even your right to make leaders there is there is an empowered goal in libya and women's has been flowing in libya specially from from egypt and out of emirates and others and they are taking the united nations did not take a very serious position to really. to to enforce the same bargain there so clearly there is a united nations is becoming clear that becoming a very weak institution does not have much to offer to unfortunately the libyan people to the others because again because of the dispute that is taking place inside the right nation for course we know the security council completely split between those members and so they cannot even come to the agreement to even issue
resolution any more. just issue a very diplomatic statements which doesn't really help hafter has succeeded where the genie failed in libya's chaotic south rallying the local tribes around him why do you reject the idea that he can actually unify the whole libya so he cannot unify libya because 1st of all he is a dictator. and he is not welcomed libyans they would like to see a country which is democratic that is a civil we are tolerant of the group by a military dictator whose we have been gone through no 4450 almost 50 years of this so the libyans they would like to see a civil government a missing that is the g.n.a.t. is the perfect government for that but they would like to see a civil government they would like to see real participation they would like to see a real. mix change of power so it's this fully and so
other friends have thought i did not win the south and the south right now is but as it was when it is in chaos and when also when he was in the south he could to his his forces cope with a lot of war crimes against civilians in the south so so have to 1st of all if you look at the so-called libyan national army after it is made of few small groups of army people but they're the best out of militias who they call them a new son of the with me the supporters and so he's not capable of doing that is not capable of stability to the country. so in a larger picture however a we've heard the cost for everyone to get together and work out a way to unify libya for 80 years now and peace and stability looks as elusive now as it did in 2011 what's the better scenario for the country i can def a like strongman who would be able to drive the country towards at least
a semblance of stability or a new civil war. clue don't have only these 2 options if you mention either a strong run for leave huffed out of a lot of civil war i mean there is a other option which is a political solution to the country and the 1st thing that the world need to do to stop those those countries who they are intervening in the country who they are supplying to the water with with weapons and weapons and someone to leave the libyans alone then the libyans of the one left at all they will be able to come to a base will sort of whom they will be able to work together to overcome this and they will have a civil. country civil government. and so but but again this is where we are today and i hope that libya be able boat in both parts of the country in all parts of the country they would come to their senses on the stub their children from going to war against one another. we thank
you as well as by the by the women themselves thank you so much for this century and we're talking to shock parents. or the former deputy prime minister of libya discussing the conflict in the country and quite there are it's going to and any time soon that's it for this edition of cell phone call scenics. after the previous stage of my career was over everyone wondered what i was going to do next about different clubs on one hand it is logical to set off on fields
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