tv Cross Talk RT May 28, 2019 11:00pm-11:31pm EDT
i mean. it is a virtual certainty that you will fight on the battlefield for america some point you like the u.s. vice president tells military graduates they should be prepared for active service around the world including in europe also ahead. serbia puts its military on full alert after police units in kosovo enter the disputed territories of service dominated north making a string of arrests. in southeast asian nations fight back against a flood of toxic non-recyclable waste being dumped on them by richer countries. the latest on these stories you can head to archie dot com stay with us now for cross talk discussing the european elections.
hello and welcome to crossfire all things considered i'm peter lavelle leads have suffered another humiliating black eye and bloody nose all across europe voters put the elites on notice the status quo is not working for the people the surge to the right and the rise of populism maybe a game changer was the elites now listen. cross talking the e.u. elections i'm joined by my guest john white an edinburgh he's a political commentator and writer in brussels we. luke reeve
a he is an independent journalist and in paris we cross to francesco so rich you know he is deputy director at c e sciences poll all right gentlemen crossed means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate it let's go to luke in brussels let's go to the belly of the beast itself how is brussels meaning the e.u. stomaching these election results because you can't say they were unexpected maybe a point here or maybe a point there but more or less it was expected there would be a populous would do well the right more right wing parties would do well and we have to point out in spain the left did pretty well there as well but there's certain you can't say it's a protest vote anymore the trends are there and the and the number of people that went out to vote were quite astounding considering european elections. elections are not that popular with with voters but they it was this time around so luke what is changed go ahead. while i would say they are saying much for the moment at least
i mean brussels is preparing itself for designating the president of the commission and the all the presidents of the council and of parliament etc in the coming weeks so. this is a moment where of course you can reflect upon the results and these results are never as fantastically good often testicular bad as expected because you have 27 countries 28 still with the britain that participated and the statistical rule makes it that it is more land than expected but the victory of the populist the so-called populist is there there now must the something must have something like 25 percent of the votes in the european parliament which is quite big at the less than expected maybe and the greens on the other side and the other major whereas with the losers being the 2 traditional parties and the liberals defending just their turf the extreme left is also down at european level of course there are differences of national differences. but generally speaking that was expect ok well
john in edinburgh i mean the european elites just can't say well it's business as usual the elections are over we move forward i mean the people have spoken there and their voice is getting louder in louder in more focused here i mean what's democracy for a p leads don't react to it go ahead john yeah but these are incapable of reacting to the words of coal marks the lakes or sort of who are unable to control the power of the netherworld that they have called up by their spells they are the architects of their own demise and to paraphrase teller own they have lived nothing and forgotten everything we have learned nothing from the brics a vote in the u.k. in 2016 lead nothing from the election over you know skeptic tell you coalition government last year and the forgotten everything about the impact of the server just added to that the people of greece in violation of the country's democratic will in 2015 so these people are incapable of changing or they can do is carry on as if nothing's happened move along nothing to see here and they're heading for
a crash course for these european elections continue to the key is in inexhaustible momentum of you know skepticism from the right and posing the question that either the e.u. cheese me a little isms near liberalism or it's people's will that the e.u. the former is not happening and a lot of as francesco and paris i mean i think one most important take away from it all is that there is a growing part of the european electorate there are who want more of their sovereignty back or at least not they don't want to keep ceding it away and i think that that is a very important political cultural expression on the part of a lot of voters because these voters are very motivated to get out they have something that they either they want to gain something more or stop losing what they've been losing inside the european union go ahead in paris. i think i think you're right i will see it wrong at the same time because let me explain to you because there is not some not so clear back that he it's true that we were
expecting a breakthrough of euro skeptics but these are the only a few counties and not by chance is the counties where actually the. need is. carrying the body more and my own country that where of course we have been suffering the most from the wrong body you mentioned before but not not on you not know how to use these and some other countries use many different way of protests that most not abuse the green party that have been doing better you had almost so. i mean them i'm always trying to. restrain from simply sticking to patients on one side of the room. and not only in europe of course in europe i mean fighting against what you call the elite that would pull this war but then you're saying these policies are using the challenge but it's not true sure that the un sort of your pm people who want us let's go and read the fury that these soldiers home you
know that they were very very spare that's a very fair point ok but i think what people they know what they don't want to right now that's the stage we're in right now they know what they don't want here let's go back to luke air i mean can i get something on that just a few words because then go ahead go ahead go ahead and. on both sides the those let's say the europeans are still the majority to find i mean they don't know what they want because we see in the europeans you have everything you have those who say to keep going with you going to forms those who say we should reform europe and make it more fair that an eccentric setter among the no europe in the you also. might mean he tries to forge an alliance we are bound for example and we will be there for get you know these guys that we. you know so little stereo that you can hear me knowing he's not you know so you see you see within 2 camps you know so much they're very. very hard to see how european and i could be involved from here
it's a very interesting let's go back to luke here i mean i've often been very critical of the democracy deficit in the european union the distance between the the the voters and i will continue to use the term elites because that's what they are they're very pampered and well taken care of elites in europe ok but one of the things i think is very important is that there is a democratic surge people want to use the ballot box what i worry about is that these people that want to hear their voice heard they will be continued to be ignored and i think that is what the real danger is here because people who want to use democracy to change their lives that's what they expect go ahead in brussels. well you are absolutely right i think that the people will not be pleased by the solutions that will be found by the traditional parties that will of course continue their style and majority of typically pro european parties by the way we're all pro european we're all europeans we know that even the brits want to
leave they feel europeans who we have something in common of course we do but we don't want to have this united states of europe that the present elitist trying to impose on us an immigration that they try to impose in the globalist view that people refuse to see is of course also that people might not realize it but the traditional parties have manipulated the committee work in the european parliament for example not to give any power any decision to the populists so these parties start ready have now something like 25 percent but you should also count victor autobahn in d.e.p.t. in the christian democratic group you should council so the conservatives the conservative group not only the british ones but who. also very sovereigntists very much for the national identity so all these people feel national identity 1st and
they won't get it in the well in the decisions that will be taken by the next parliament will tell what they want russia what's wrong for wanting to defend your country's sovereignty and you know i really don't like how people criticize that word populist ok i mean populate it because you want to defend your own country your own sovereignty your own borders that's a that's a dirty word i really hate how the mainstream media pollute our politics go ahead in edinburgh. well you have to be careful when you talk about national sovereignty peter or a war such as national interest that has no national interest in any country there are class interests and i personally cannot die on the whole of british so frontier given britain's role in the world going back 500 years as a corneal imperialist state but the point that comes to the point of a democracy and what's wrong with the rise of nationalism that we've seen in a lot to be occurring is due to conditions of economic. extremis caused by the global economic crash in 2008 and the refusal of the proponents of neo liberalism
to recognise that this model is a corpse it doesn't work and they've only keep it alive through life support under austerity programs and that's only deepening the problem so it's economic at the heart of this issue and democracy is a symptom of that and it's been refracted through nationalism and national particularism in paris so i see you nodding your head go ahead jump in. i mean i think the it's really the. somebody say a few years ago it was little clinton yes exactly be the surge of national interests coincide with the moment in which europe stops being able. to you. being and that. was not united that will people like me when i mean by the. policies kerry long since 2010 i think i
still believe the best way to serve the family and the french and the germany there is use within europe how can we compete i'm talking to you in russia and you compete with russia. how can how can we compete with china how can we compete we the united states so the best we conserve the agony there is is the european inputs now that probably means that you know you need. then yes and that's why the concept. but that he's not a long. term solution would never be a long term solution ok gentlemen i'm going to jump in when i think it's very interesting here is that you know this always gets down to the argument on either. limits centralization or an increase integration and that's a point we'll talk about when we return here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on the e.u. election stakes.
you know world big partners. and conspiracies it's time. to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the troops the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks. i mean we were at camp rounds of america i think it's called there's like a chain of these campgrounds and trailer parks across america so yeah these types of organizations would be rolled out. so you have economies of scale you now have
lots of trailer parks all socialize reporting to one corporate behavior on wall street and they're extracting nickels and dimes and a lot of people are so. welcome back across town where all things considered i'm peter let's remind you we're discussing the e.u. elections. ok let's go back to luke in brussels i mean francesca a man had a very interesting point in the 1st part of the program here you know of about how italy and the you know the it deals with the world and how the european union deals with the world and it seems like every single crisis point of this project somebody
says sort of elite say we need to integrate more we need the united states of europe but not one single citizen of the european union it's ever voted for such a proposition it's just assumed that it's the right way to go to get out of a crisis but you don't ask the people and that's why i think this election is very important here and if these parties in the parliament are not going to be allowed on committees and all that it does show is a lack of democratic commitment on the part of the elites it's just going to perpetuate the frustration so many people have because as i said in the introduction this program the status quo isn't working for the average person luke after my diatribe there go ahead and brussels. so as you say you know we all feel europeans but we don't want what they have in stock for us and and the little games in brussels the people really don't like when they hear about it they they're not really interested the distance is too high too too big between the citizens in
their country and europe in brussels or in sa school by the way said hospital brussels that's crazy to have this move every month between one capital and the other that's that's really crazy they should decide once and for all but they have been things that are you know really disgusting martin said meyer who was the secretary of mystic has been designated in a corrupt way the general secretary of the administration of the i mean this b. and now of course he's of the party of mrs merkel and now the part of mrs merkel the c.d.u. c.s.u. that they want to have missed of a but as the president of the european commission what else i mean this is a little games and little power games that should stop in the coming days and weeks they will have to decide who will be the president of the european commission the executive arm and replace them stephen curry and that promises some
some difficult discussions ok in germany it's go back to edinburgh i mean the european economic community i was a big fan of that ok because it wasn't about it didn't take your sovereignty away from you but actually the you found synergies with other european economies and that's what should be happening right now ok that it is building of the united states of europe it is a it's a fool's errand because you know what i've been to greece and i've been to scotland and i've been to a lot they're very very different places ok why you have to you know square the circle with all of them in it ok i can i do get it you know that the low countries are most german. ins they like the european union does very well for them but it doesn't do very well for it it stunts the growth of some cunt countries look at poor greece greece is going to live in the gutter for generations because of the e.u. and the euro ok i mean it isn't the same all the way across and they may i just wonder
of what this election you know the elites are going to say hey we have to start again having a much more nuanced look instead of looking after our own personal interest goes out and just reflecting about what luke just said in brussels go ahead. in its current form the e.u. as a lot of the present herself nations locked in seyda neen a liberal straight jacket with a single currency which doesn't work because money to union with a fiscal union is untenable i am you're right there is absolutely no upper take for the political integration and it's the jew politicization of course concerned given the huge rule in the crisis in ukraine and given the rule of the. reliable has you know washington in many years and this is the elephant in the room washington this is a europe of the americans the other was to go understood this yet when he when he opposed the formation of its initial incarnation $151.00 the european court of course still community he understood this if this was
a medal of an american project this was not triumph of european diplomacy it was a triumph of us to pull missy come out of the 2nd world war is a global economic hedge more and so how can you have argued a peanut when you have russia and america walked in and told her various that we'll never have a harmony of nations across europe we need to return to some semblance of sovereignty your great europe of nations as chose to go so prescient we advocated after the 2nd world war ok let's go to back to paris what role did immigration play in this selection across the entire continent. immigration is a perfect example of what i was saying before. the united states of europe are also nobody was. course the sort of focus on one of them but not done must be something we have seen wrestle documentary nobody wants to have it says i've personally seen that that would be the best possible solution for restoring democracy in your
thirty's my personal computer what they was meaning before is that we the in the data set up we can have different policies in these different policies in both much better called of the nation across counties and that the. who. will these normally these old moments be the kids almost their kids who are alabama they need more different from new york than you see last year from greece so we have the same type of. movie blah i'm not really sure that's a very good i'm not sure that's a very good analogy because i mean what you have in the united states you didn't have set identities the only one broad identity was american so this being an alabama or an american there was no tension at all ok i think there's a lot of tension in the european union about being european and italian ok because
being an italian doesn't so it doesn't necessarily serve your interests ok i have heard this argument before didn't work ok keep going to paris see more complicated but let's let's pass on that it's not very important that by the make the mediations are very important what these work is the problem with immigration immigration is a few of the counties in the southern belt have been left with and are their own ok so who are the nation if you commission policies will be this sort of the other solution is found to by itself we try to please more efficient your in your opinion in the world. well i mean what i mean by and by that i mean if you have frau merkel you know let's go back to brussels here i mean you know with a few sentences chichi determined europe's immigration policy to the detriment of many many people ok i mean again where is the democracy in that everybody knows germany is a powerful country inside the european union the most powerful country and only
more so when there is a break is it ok but i mean again that breaks all kind of democratic norms consultations and worrying about how it's going to impact other countries in the european union look at poor greece again people is walking right through ok and they can do nothing about it luke go ahead and brussels medical in a way created deltona to $4.00 yet now it's a little early cent of the vote in the european parliament that's her doing and the key of course it's a bit better for the moment there are less people trying to cross the mediterranean they go to spain mainly that's why you have folks appearing in spain because people don't want this but the problem the coming problem looming on the horizon is a silent danger is the fact that europe gives the family reunification possibility to all the people who have arrived and so these people why are. looking for a job desperately in school it's called chain migration raining it's called in migration cetera they will bring their families they will bring their mothers their
fathers their kids to wives and these people will be net receivers of social security that we pay not then and so that's what the people hey didn't europe they say look we don't want this we don't want family reunification that brings nearly $5.00 more people for each asylum seeker that's accepted that's the key problem and no putting in process in the. i mean the bad i mean you know when a country does take a stand on immigration like hungary you know it is turned it's turned into a pariah. when italy wants to do something about it it's turned into a pariah i mean again we talk about this tension about what sovereignty means inside the european union and this election is telling us that that tensions only going to increase because you have to ask the people about these issues and not the whims of the german chancellor go ahead in edinburgh. well i think we have to identify the source of the problem the source of the problem is the rule of western
hegemony and disrupting meena especially middle east north africa which is producing those flows of refugees or economic migrants or people who are seeking a better life and after all we would all do the same and their positions are sometimes we have to try and see the world through their eyes but the thing europe it's a free movement of capital as a real distorting impact and as a driver of economic migration and it goes back again to the neoliberal economic model which is the very antithesis of democracy and national sovereignty and it told countries can control the flow of capital going out of their countries then they will never be able to pull the control their own economies and meet and have some form of intervention in terms of infrastructure in terms of providing jobs public works programs especially in a frame of economic recession so again when it comes to the roots of neo liberalism and how it works to distort economies across europe and throughout the world and the wealth of the northern hemisphere peter we must recognize is predicated on the
poverty of the southern hemisphere and so until we address that imbalance these global economic imbalances will always have problems with migration coming into your income and to the wealthier parts of the planet so we can't control these problems until we address the drives not the pull factors but the drive the push factors and that goes back to the free movement of capital ok well let's go back to paris i mean what is the next step for the european union after this election i mean is it just something that they're going to ignore and just keep keep their fingers crossed that the they can continue their on their merry path here because again you know this this deficit of democracy i think is building in tension and if there isn't if these issues are not addressed the way individuals an individual countries it's only going to get worse for the european union and the the belief in the european union i mean for god's sake go what's going on with briggs that last 30 say. against a periscope i thought i'd agree that we need to have
a change of person to be what you were mentioning before it's clear the problem is not the 5 people who use the word perceive the problem is what we do without learning what precisely what the how do we finance it how do we find ways. to make it to the. global world these are the questions we have to us not how we protect ourselves some people from the south because anybody think was perfectly right i mean the problem is that these guys are poor because we made them poor so we collectively made them poor so they're coming they will be coming so the problem is what do we do our social model i know you can do with your back to the 1st time we're going to. agree with you that going on as we were going. so far will not solve our problems you can make us much worse than we were ok that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guest in brussels paris and in edinburgh and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. next time and remember crosstalk.
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