tv Cross Talk RT June 24, 2019 7:30pm-8:01pm EDT
manufacture consent to public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the famous merry go round if. we can all middle of the room. for the new. low in welcome the cross talk we're all things are considered. with 10 minutes to spare trump pulled back from attacking iran reception of this new split down the
middle or depending on how you view the president what is not talked about is why the u.s. feels compelled to go to war washington's obsession with iran is hardly over. cross talking some real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow wendy's and he is a professor at the higher school of economics as well as author of the decay of western civilization and the resurgence of russia and in paris we cross to john laughlin he is a lecturer in political philosophy and i says the catholic university of bendy or a gentleman crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate let me go to john 1st in paris what we have seen happen with trump pulling back with 10 minutes to spare he's created in in amazing dilemma for him for himself and his administration essentially now he's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't and this is a trap that i would say in my. in that he he has allowed himself to be painted into
a corner by the figures such as pompei or bolton because this crisis and it is a crisis is far from over we are going to have to wait for the next step and i would say before i go to you the momentum and the initiative is on the side of iran now not the united states go ahead joe. i think that. donald trump is totally inscrutable and in a way that's part of his political genius and what i mean by that is that you know we've been talking about donald trump now for 4 years for 2 years while he was during the primaries and for 2 years since he's been president and he has an incredible talent for making people talk about him all the time because he never does what you expect and he does outrageous things and then doesn't follow through with them and nothing is coherent so yes as in your question of course like many observers i see the pressure of the neo cons. bolton and so on pushing him to do
things which he then doesn't do we told us over venezuela he venezuela fizzled out and it was clearly a failure but it was cooked up by bolton and pompei o ditto iran so you know what we have servers are left perplexed and i you know i have no special information is it that he is their puppet and that he doesn't know what to do is he playing some clever game it's impossible to say what we have is a kind of strange situation where we're led to the brink repeatedly we were led to the brink a couple of years ago in april 27th seen over syria we were led to the brink of course in venezuela now we've been sent to the brink again including with absurd false flag operations like the the so-called mining operation the grainy video and so on all this nonsense but trump doesn't follow through it's a kind of tease it's
a kind of political correctness interrupt us and. whether it's a plan or not a plan i just go for john let me go to glenn i mean john's absolutely right it's we're not we're still talking about donald trump and maybe that was going to divine was in the 1st place but i think you know the more serious here i think we have to remind our. viewers is that iran perceives all of this is the war is already started this maximum pressure is is hurting the economy it is hurting the middle class it is the economy is hurting ok and so iran sees this is just another step in america's war against the islamic republic. and i think for that reason it can be quite important for iran. to well to make sure that while they can read renegotiate this. thing tensions as well i'm not saying that this is initiative but i do think that they have something to gain by increasing tensions and get
americans to sit down because quite accurately as john pointed out. there the seems to be some confusion about what the trump administration is doing and i think for trump he says his main objective is simply to put maximum pressure on all of america's adversaries to negotiate something else while he said ministration from the pump aosta bolton as they are more intraday actually want to go all the way to warsaw in venezuela you know they want to go in. on this well so i think they seem to want to go the same way in terms of putting max pressure but then at the final stage actually doesn't want to go the last mile while they do which is why you have this you know we were told to the talk show host tucker carlson has been talking with the president and if you look at some of the. tucker carlson's commentary about what was going on right before the pullback he was essentially telling donald trump and i believe he was speaking to him personally to
on his broadcast is that if you do this if you follow through on this you will destroy your presidency you will not be reelected let me let me go back to paris to john i mean obviously what what the iranians would want if there is any kind of negotiations is sanction relief i mean that's exactly what they want and this is goes back to my 1st question to you this is a dilemma because trump is all in on maximum pressure it would be very difficult for him politically to withdraw all from that and we'll talk about the media reaction later but this is part of the dilemma if you want he says he wants negotiations but from the iranian side said we had to go with you we came with a nuclear deal and you walked away from it why should we trust you that's the dilemma john. yes but that is also part of trump's tactic you know his tactic is to go into a room shout a lot of totally outrageous things and then stomp out again and leave everyone wondering what the hell just happened he did that over korea let's not forget he called in rocket man he said he told the united nations he was going to obliterate
korea north korea from the face of the earth and then he went to meet kim jong il that is his tactic and i think it's the same with iran he disavowed john bolton publicly in the oval office he said i sometimes have to rein john bolton in and he said we're ready to talk with the iranians in as much as he has a strategy and i'm not sure that he does in as much as he does his strategy is to disorient everyone by his completely outrageous behavior and then come in and say i'm ready to talk and he has done that with the iranians so i don't think it's politically impossible for him to climb down on the country all i hope i can what he i agree with i mean what he should do what he should do right now is fire john bolton but fire him and say i'm taking charge of this right now i mean that would give him a little breathing space with the same time john iran's is not going to be understanding iran feels that is it is the united states is an existential threat to the islamic
republic and it is john. well i don't think that's what the iranians iranians would want i think if trump did say right. now we're going to i think they would respond maybe i'm wrong maybe i don't never go yeah but they would have to be sanctioned really they would have to say we will. lower the saying let me go to glenn on this i mean is that because i think i think it has to be the north koreans and he did a little bit is it possible but yeah i i think so but again it's a very different ball to can get out of this mix pressure because. iran this is not like these other countries the united states of bombed and invaded the past 30 years it is a large middle power so it's it has the ability to inflict. pain on you not exactly and for this reason that's a limitation for how much pressure of the united states can put on it because it
knows that america has a lot to lose if they would actually go to war so i guess for for the united states the ideal situation if they could put max pressure in or even like a bloody nose attack where they do a limited strike on iran iran is you know too terrified to retaliate because of the repercussions it would have would have for them if you know america would then escalate however because iran has so much capabilities it is it's quite vital for them to be able to hold up a red line and hold american psychology that's why they have the smallest infringement on their security such as this drone passing into the airspace it's imperative for them to respond and do so harshly because if the americans if they will use this military power then they will probably go for this but in those attack however if. if they believe the american that they run this will retaliate. with full force the only thing they don't strive to really don't have to we have with full force and go back to john and paris iran doesn't have to react in full
force with iran's greatest strength. when taking on the united states is fighting asymmetrically so a drone is. shot over for example then an in american air base in iraq yet it gets attacked or something in syria so this is this is the nightmare for the for the strategists because iran can react you don't know where or how and you can't plan for it john. well i'm going to stick my dick out i'm going to say i mean i think trump is completely unpredictable and like many observers as i've just said i found it impossible to reach him but i'm going to say stick my neck out and say that he's not going to go for it he didn't go for it over syria he's more or less structured grain he's more or less structured venezuela as far as we know it keeps he's a tease he keeps the neo cons on side by pretending he's with them and then he drops them at the last minute maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm being optimistic i think
it's fascinating analysis because if you everything you've said is that you can't prove that is incorrect ok so i mean that's fascinating in itself well give you the last word in this block you know your position trump either because on one hand his the. one on the peace president. obama or bush or clinton he doesn't start new wars on the other hand he's looking at his base and is he thinking about the allegedly but on the other hand he's he's pushing almost all countries into conflict of same time is threatening war us with more than anyone else so it's hard to tell if he is a war of what it is or is it is it there is the credibility gap i mean john just said you know all these countries here are so i mean he's just all what is it was a saying he's all happy. and no cattle well it depends because he wants to put too much pressure on all countries in order to renegotiate america's relationship with the world to reverse the klein however if it would actually go to war with iran
this would drain all of america's focus and resources for the next decade and you know while. all other powers to trust negotiate with would be able to walk free china would the rise to global privacy and so it would be it would be the worst thing right 22nd said john before we go go ahead john 20 seconds i totally agree with that and again i'm look i'm not like many people i've been deeply disappointed by trump i'm appalled by the appointment of bolton and bombay and so on but to the extent that he has a foreign policy and that he runs u.s. foreign policy which of course is itself a question yes what leonard said is right trump is focused on china ok i long to. be the topic for the next time you we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real news with our team.
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their food because they're already making a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. shows seemed wrong why don't we all just all. the world yet to shake out disdain because etiquette and engagement equal the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart. she still look for common ground. you know world of big partisan movies lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bath and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the
middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. welcome back to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing iran. and now we're joined by alexander me curious in london he is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com alex goen come to the program you i know you heard the 1st half we had with john laughlin let's switch gears a little bit here i was. unpleasantly surprised i'm i say that the media reaction in the media reaction to this polling back of this attack all has to do about how you perceive donald trump and it's really not about the
conflict itself all right because you have people that know that a war an american war on iran would be devastating to for the region for the global economy but it would be under trump's watch go for it i mean and then of course watching american cable with these low octane thinkers they don't know anything about iran or foreign policy all they could do was say that trump doesn't have credibility we can talk about that but it misses the whole point here why the united states needs to feels that compulsion compulsion to go to war all the time go ahead alex and indeed if you go to the media here in rishon and what i've seen of the media in the united states there is a world full lack of analysis of this there is very little discussion a war has led up to this conflict all of potential conflicts and there is even less discussion of what the potential consequences of this conflict would be as you correctly say and as was indeed discussed on the 1st segment of your program the
focus is overwhelmingly on the personality of one man which is donald trump ignoring the fact that there are multiple actors. this matter one which is of course iran which most definitely does have agency the rain ians are sitting back and calculating and making their own decisions and this seems to be incredibly little interest in. the media generally in finding out what they think and what they're going to do i saw a statement on a discussion program in the united states where it was suggested that even discussing it rainy annoyed years was somehow treasonable credibly incredible way of thinking given what how dangerous the situation is becoming you know when that's going to cure it springs up such
a great point in this in this is primarily the media's fault is that negotiating with an adversary is treasonous i mean that that that defies the very concept of diplomacy having state craft ok i've come across that too that any kind of negotiations with the iranians is somehow morally wrong and that is a very dangerous supposition. in that they refer to us as a character dilemma sensible to being able to put yourself in the shoes of the other serious because if you simply divide the world into the right versus wrong good versus evil. you know then you get the rhetoric to have in the u.s. now or you know iran's been behaving we have to teach them a lesson so you know i think that we're behavior hey there has to have a dog approach where you know the teacher address a student the parent address the child so you have to discipline them in order to get the correct behavior but that's not really how international relations work you have 2 states with competing conflicting interests what you really need to do than
the 6 i mean the interest of both states in order to find some way to do a compromise. there's a lot of noise here so you can't really actually have this process of what actually diplomacy is supposed to be all about. instead you have good country source and bad if you listen to the valid one it's the it's a piece meant so taking in to consideration what iran might need it security interest the us appeasement is treason and this is goes against peace so it's a really if international relations diplomacy put on this head because this is not how it's supposed to work furthermore because of this whole focus now and trump it to impede stability of the united states to act rationally and not simply irrational would suggest you're able to look at foreign affairs and do a rational calculation in terms of what's the best way to approach it to maximize their security but what we're seeing is it's a domestic politics of the united states that will dictate its foreign policy let's point out if if if you can criticize trump for how he's handling it are his not the
size of enough is too aggressive if this then if this serves domestic politics then he will do it so essentially foreign policy is shaped or even directed. at your door it is this whole mantra about socialism you know that's domestically driven in the united states visa be in his way or let me go back to london i got i have a way to get out of this mess here because it's certainly a dilemma that trump is a lot i'm south to be painted into a corner fire pompei i'll fire bolton and call and said again what do you think we need because of course the way glenn was discussing matters is very much if i may say so a view of international relations that you can find in europe and you can find in moscow but when she's not very current in the united states the united states isn't doing diplomacy at the moment love at all is a suit green diplomat and he is the foreign minister of the great power and he is
someone who's extremely skilled and adept at negotiating compromises and brokering solutions as was recently pointed out to me a good igs. well of how that can happen is the conflict between russia and turkey that existed over syria some years ago when a russian aircraft was shot down and we need not hear anything about military action being taken at that time certain sanctions were imposed but in the end the 2 sides found nothing commonality of interest to negotiate a compromise but that required diplomas and that is not what we're seeing at the moment if i can just say one very quick thing about some of the comments that have been made both by john and by clem i think there is riddle to this mystery of donald trump and glenn touched on it the riddle is that trantor needs to do
whatever he must as he thinks to win the 2020 points if he has tookie use the evangelical christians like tents and poincare who are fired up against iran and see things in that black and white terms the donald trump glen was talking about and at the same time he has to appease he's are that the other party's base which is against war which is what tucker carlson comes from and this is what explains to my mind these extraordinary zig zags in the decisions that we are seeing not a way to conduct diplomacy and diplomacy is what we need to clint i mean i think we've you know with john laughlin and we're going to hear it yourself any myself here i think we've kind of cut through the hedges here but we still have to deal
with the issue is that iran certainly doesn't see it this way they're not psychoanalyzing donald trump they are very seriously concerned with their sovereignty so if you're if you're into lock your adversary is. i'm sorry irrational or. not no sense predictable how how does iran deal with that because they're on the receiving end you know that's a good question and this didn't start with trump of course it is a very long american policy to put them or more pressure on iran so it's. how would you react if you're a country like iran as i mentioned before iran is a large middle power it's it's it's much greater than this country which america talked of a loss of 3 or so yet this doesn't have the turrent power let's say china or russia so. i guess the only thing they can do is trying to continue to negotiate with the americans but again the current has to be the basis of all of this.
it's very hard for them. we have like pump a 0 and using exactly that same word it turns you know but i find that really bizarre but the turn that they use that slightly wrong because the target is supposed to prevent someone from taking an action and that's usually the revisionist power but in this situation it's the americans who are the rishon as they are they are ripping up the iran nuclear deal and then they're telling their on the in-store to their to stop abiding by but you can't this is this would only make sense if you're telling them from ripping up the agreement but if you're the revisionist power you're the one expanding you're the one bombing the neighbors you're the one threatening the terrorist doesn't work in this way and. then we the thing that i guess we're going to be seeing moving forward because this isn't over i mean this simply is not over this is the beginning of something here because as i
said in the 1st part of the program iran already perceives itself to in a conflict with the united states and that is the it is on the receiving end of economic warfare but i always stress iran has a lot of asymmetrical ways to make the u.s. pay attention ok and its ability and it does how friends in the region. all the way to lebanon and we we a rock i mean the iraqis have made it very clear they want to american troops out one of the reasons why american troops are staying there is quote unquote watching iran i mean it could make it very very messy and even painful for the u.s. with this asymmetrical approach. this asymmetrical look she's followed by. response to this campaign of american pressure which to be very clear if you read american demands they demand iran's total could you lay
surrender so right. in a way which would make the entire political system in iran a known viable and unsustainable it is a campaign in effect for regime change but the radiance absolutely have to respond they have by the standards of the region an advanced military they are as glenn correctly said a significant middle ranking power and they have many many supporters in the middle east and these this campaign against them is going to win over more people in the middle east because there's so much there the perceived victim exactly if i could just say i mean the whole policy of maximum pressure when a marine has been a plant by the united states we've seen this with north korea we've seen this with cuba we've seen this with venezuela we see this with russia by the way we're seeing it now of course with the wrong we in nor the in the results based on experience is
that it causes the other saw it to harden its position exactly and popular resistance within the. country to stiffen juror in venezuela seems to be in a stronger position now than he was a few months ago and i. tried to jump in here and i know where i want to say something but we rode out of down here many thanks to my guest here in moscow paris and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are can you see you next time and remember across the tools. but there are older birds or to. go behind or to feel good but such.
an arguer. of it is that to me it's. just a city the mothership good. to see more money as we move. to nominate the fish you know not just go from home. they are the house of. god since when. can a man and any other mean don't hate. the spirit who in. your kind of open system definition in. the midst of them runs to. my objection or brags that it's not that i like to hear you but it without the
mollifying influence of the e.u. the brits are going to be exposed face on head on to people like boris johnson and jacob smog who are who are the of the certifiably insane. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. only it was. i am. lucky that i don't want. that i wasn't going to. leave.
us imposes sanctions on iran supremely to and wake of a drone she was saying look at how washington's dawns on the country seems to be pulling in different directions. the trump administration's middle east peace plan is rejected by palestine critics accusing washington of trying to bribe arabs into making concessions to is where. the parents of critically ill palestinian infants taken from gaza to better equipped hospitals in israel today they're being denied access to their children.