tv Sophie Co RT August 26, 2019 9:30am-10:00am EDT
the institution its power and its money that it was operated and directed by the vatican of the global level that it's been a global cover up i think that's something we've not very clearly exposed so we're going to go through all of that step by step but 1st ireland is a very catholic country when you came out publicly about your deal when you see the vatican where you supported by the irish or catholics around the world. it was a makes generally speaking when i went very public. i made a documentary with a european television station in 2002 and when that aired there was a very very strong in support of response from people here in our in our into particular but of course there were people who didn't want me to speak about what was happening i mean i got people warning me that i should spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder i got death threats while in the main i got a huge amount of support i think people were uphold not just the the the crimes of
rape and abuse that reflected on me and many others by the priest in my own case with more by the cover up of those crimes the facilitation of the collusion with them and that we were able to expose that by catholic bishops and indeed by the vatican itself so how hard was it for you to make your case how did church resistance change things for you where you prevented it from speaking out what was i mean 1st of all it was very difficult to get to the point where i could challenge my own. i suppose internal inhibitors the the the only spoken authority of the church wasn't something that was external to me it was internal so when i 1st start to think about in the mid 1900 about 1904 about doing something about what had happened to me more than a decade earlier. my 1st instinct was to contact the bishop from as opposed to contacting the police so i had bought into this idea that the church was the ultimate authority and that it was it was to them that i needed to look to
thankfully i didn't instead i decided about 6 months later in february of 1905 that i would make a complete complaint directly to the police here in arlington that's what i did. the priest who would abuse me the priest who raped me when i was 14 years of age was known to be a sexual abuser when he was ordained a priest the church knew about his offending behavior and they were doing to me he continued to abuse. from his ordination right through his entire career as a priest and he was still a priest and active ministry when i went to the police in 1905 he was only removed from ministry immediately after that the church's response to what i and others were alleging was to 1st of all deny deny that abuse happened then to deny the idea that they knew anything about abuse of the that they understood us and when they finally had to acknowledge that abuse was happening they tried to suggest this was just a few bad apples this was about a couple of you know bad people who had infected the priest children who were doing terrible things. when we called from when i campaign for accountability on the part
of the institutional church there was an effort to suggest that the church was above the law that the state could not investigate the church that the church was protected from any kind of station vest a geisha and indeed the church asserted here in arlington it's done across the world that their own rules canon law the internal law of the church is superior to the law of the state in any jurisdiction which is within which they operate so we have to get over lash and of course there are all the accusations of being dishonest of being deceitful of being anti catholic of trying to undermine the church. of being a liar of being a fan to the were attacks on my personal integrity all of that kind of thing was so based on the whole everything that you have cite right now are these the only reasons or is there like something else that actually makes victims of child sexual abuse choose to report the crime many years later like you did as well
well i suppose the 1st thing i've worked also clinically with with people have been sexually assaulted my background actually as a psychotherapist working with the terms of sexual violence i've never worked with an adult or child victim of sexual violence who hasn't somehow spoken of what happened to them now in the context of children they speak of their smaller behaviorally them verbally because they don't have a language to explain what's happened to them i mean even when i was. 18 years of age this was back in 1981 there wasn't a language available to me to allow me to understand nevermind explain part of happened and what this man was doing it was an incredibly frightening confusing threatening time in my life when suddenly the act that he perpetrated upon me. called into question everything that i believed about the world i mean up until that point i've been told some fairly fundamental things as fact warm but the church was good and the priests above all were good and were never to be questions they were absolutely called to that if i behaved myself and was
a good person everything would be ok 3 that adults would only ever hurt me if i did something wrong so therefore if i've been heart i must have done something wrong and then suddenly i'm raped by a catholic priest that was there was no way i could understand that never mind articulate and i was soul shamed by a part of happened. i internalized all of that shame and that silenced me now that was me at 14. at 6 at 7 at 8 at 10 it's going to be even more difficult for children to speak of victims of sexual violence carry the shame of society the shame that society on the perpetrator of the crime. and that shame becomes very internalized and it's very silencing. i should also say that it's very threatening to speak out you know if one knows that the perpetrator and the institution around the perpetrator is incredibly powerful and at the time and up until relatively
recently the concept of church was more powerful than the state of the conflict church was more powerful than our parliament when it came to what happened within our society. but it's a fairly intimidating institution to challenge so we're now seeing a flurry of sex abuse scandals around the catholic church once again most of that church that has been accused of covering up sexual abuse to german church is mired in the number of sexual abuse scandals there's another case in france some more american scandals popping up with federal a torn is a lot of what is behind the latest wave. well you just see more and more revelations i mean i think what's significant finally is that we're seeing state authorities federal authorities in the united states have announced that they've opened up the department of justice has opened up an investigation into pennsylvania and it's believed that investigations into other states at the federal level will also follow. but there has for whatever reason been a reluctance on the part of states to step in and investigate these crimes and in particular these cover ups that finally happened in australia recently one of our
big successes from 2002 on was winning those inquiries here in art and so i campaign for an inquiry known as the friends inquiry in 2002 but finally got up and running in 2003 and reported in 2008 and it was one of the 1st such inquiries to look at the role of both the church and state authorities in the management of concerns our suspicions our complaints of child sexual abuse perpetrated by roman catholic priests here in ireland and that found very deep and systemic failures within the church but also within state law and policy and practice but it also pointed the finger at the vatican so states need to step in and that's only happening more recently but of course what's also critical is that as soon as a victim speaks as soon as somebody decides to speak publicly provides an opportunity or an opening for all there is to speak. and that's been very significant it's you know i'm i'm 2124 years more nearly 25 years at this point
since i went public and spoke about this for the 1st time and it never ceases to amaze me that every time i speak on this i get contacted by people who say me too who say that. i never thought i could speak about this but now i think that i have to. so it's the opening up of us really the breaking open of silence allows people to speak but also of the new law that are being. made for this kind of cases have a lot of loopholes in them for instance in pencil ennia which like you mentioned has seen the. as wave of child sex abuse revelations a law is in the works which on one hand will allow the dems to sue their predators even if the abuse is beyond the statute of limitation but on the other the victim will only be allowed to sue a person not an institution so what sense will this law make for victims of their predators maybe dad by the time anyway there's no one to bear responsibility for what happened to them. well i think that's what we have to be very clear about the
critical obligation of states so if we look at what international law says about states it's for the state to guarantee access to justice and remedy for victims of human rights violations and obviously the rape or sexual assault of a child or of any person is a human rights violation so in however a state is going to put in place a remedy to guarantee access for justice that has to guarantee access and blocking . remedies involving institutions is problematic but i can also see why from the point of view of taking on the roman catholic church it might be important to begin to identify named individuals because for example the catholic church has so many different personalities legal and otherwise that it can be very hard to identify how the institution is to be sued so when i decided i would sue the pope i had to work out what am i going to sue the pope as the bishop of rome i'm going to sue him as the supreme pontiff of the roman catholic church i'm going to sue the legal
personality of the holy see which has observer status of the united nations i'm going to sue the vatican city state and him as head of the vatican city state which personality will i pursue and we've seen in australia and even efforts to do the same here in ireland where catholic diocese of effectively said well you can sue us because we don't exist we are not legal persons they're not incorporated they don't exist as an eagle entity as with any kind of. statues and so they can be very very difficult to pursue the church has been very good for 2000 years at a developing structures and mechanisms that allow it to be accountable to find a way to not be held accountable for its failings on its own crimes and it can be tricky to find laws and to design laws that can hold a property accountable but it's the obligation of states to do the. right we're going to take a short break right now while we're back will continue talking to a warm and. survivor and fighter against sexual abuse talking about the sex abuse
each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. seem wrong well we just don't all. get to shape our. answers. and indeed. the trail. find themselves worlds apart when chance to look for common ground.
very. now we're back with call. again sexual abuse discussing the. revelations of child sex abuse. church a call one pope francis was elected in 2013 he called for decisive action in tackling the issue of child sexual abuse do you feel that the action has been taken . frankly no i think francis has been enormously disappointing on this issue and i
don't say that with any pleasure i admire much of what he has to say on a whole range of social justice issues from refugees to people on the margins to poverty. to discrimination i think he's a strong advocate for a whole range of issues but on this issue he's been he's been enormously disappointing for example when he went to chile a couple of years ago a country that's been really blighted by revelations of sexual abuse and cover up of those crimes within the roman catholic church there and when victims spoke out about the appointment of a bishop who had known who was known to have covered up the abuse of a perpetrator by a priest rather than honestly respond to that charge and address that the pope accused the victim of that spoken up of slander he accused them of comedy which means slander and the attack to their integrity now afterwards when there was a huge public reaction to that he rolled back and said oh well i haven't been properly briefed by bishops and i've been misled by them before i before i travel to well you know that's either dishonest or it's incompetent and the vatican itself
had carried out investigations into that case as early as 2011 and for many decades now it has been an obligation on bishops to report any allegation of the sexual abuse or rape of a child or minor to the vatican which decides how that case is to be handled and watch what happened next so the vatican had chapter and verse on modern happened in chile francis knew he was going to a country where the abuse issues were a big deal so he either didn't bother to get briefed or he was briefed and decided to be disingenuous and dishonest in how he responded there none of that look schooled well how do you think that public repentance will help the problem how will it stop perverts from molesting boys and girls. well i think 1st of all it's i can understand why some people might fixate on the idea of repentance almost from a religious perspective what i'm interested in is truth and justice and frankly love in its in its power in its truest possible meaning and the kind of principles
that churches are meant to be grounded in and the values that they're meant to reflect so i have no desire to see pope francis or any bishop or cardinal are any church leader humiliated. are exposed in that way when i do want them to do is to stand for truth to stand for justice to reveal the facts of what was known of what they knew of how their institution and they responded to these crimes and to make themselves properly accountable including before the law i wonder if the pope is doing as much as he can in a framework that and the paradigm that he exists for and says i know that in february he's going to simone as bishops counsel to a council to discuss the sexual abuse problem i mean i don't know if that's going to change anything but he's doing that and he has said recently that his efforts are kind of bearing fruit that the number of new cases are law compared to the old ones that they church attitude towards sex abuse has changed and now has
a new conscience about it do you feel that he may have a point there i mean it's kind of heart to doubt his sincere conviction. i'm afraid it's not hard to do. the objective evidence is there for why people should 1st of all pope francis is the last elected absolute monarch on the planet he is an absolute monarchy is the supreme pontiff of the roman catholic church under church t.c. teaching he is the representative of st peter of god on earth he has that kind of power he has an entire judicial system available to him he has the mecca mechanisms of a state of washington city state its laws its police force its criminal justice process he has the own questioning loyalty of many many many billions of catholics are millions of catholics around the world he is an incredibly powerful individual with one wart with the stroke of a pen he can change much of church law when it comes to how these issues are to be
addressed he has not done so and he's not the 1st pope to summon bishops to rome after revelations of scandals are revealed and those huge public outrage pope benedict of the pope john paul the 2nd did us and these summits amount to an awful lot of pictures of people looking solemn and very little change and as far as the suggestion that we can now believe that there's less of us will based on what evidence the church doesn't reveal the number of cases that are reported to us are i would manage as such there's absolutely no transparency some afraid i don't take any comfort in any assurances from the vatican that they're taking this seriously because to this day no pope has told the plain truth not a single pope no senior representative of the vatican has ever honestly acknowledge the fact of the coverup they've denied they've suggested it's a lie and when they've begun to acknowledge that there may have been a cover up in recent years they've pointed the finger to bishops at the local level
despite all of the evidence that clearly exposes the fact that this cover up was directed at the more senior level from the vatican i always wonder why those most of this. you ponder upon you think why do all this sex abuse and sex scandals are within the catholic church maybe being celibate is not something that is required for a precise by the bible right now it's not required for critique orthodox church for my priest has like 8 kids so other christian churches do not require celibacy from priests the orthodox church like i said even encourages priests to have families at some point the roman chris could marry as well if i remember correctly so maybe if . it isn't something that is set in stone could it be overturned do you think that could partially help the problem could the pope say one day enough of this and go and find wives would that maybe help get rid of this problem but a couple of quick things i mean 1st of all we know about what's happening within
the roman catholic church i think in part because of its size and scale and its global influence the fact that we've been able to expose much of what's happening right across the roman catholic world that's become a huge and significant issue but i should say that as a as a therapist i've worked with many people who've been abused within different faiths and within different religious sessions and churches so it's not unique to the roman catholic church and the roman catholic church is perhaps unique because of its global reach and scale. on the question of the link between celibacy and pedophilia i don't think the link is a direct one in the way that you're suggesting as. indeed there's no research to suggest that it has and just personally as a man i don't understand how a requirement to be celibate would somehow turn. an adult into somebody who was sexually assaulted child if i'm in a position where i'm being forced to be celibate and i don't feel that i can manage
that i may well decide but i have a clandestine sexual relationship with another adult but not with a child. require our you know needing to break the requirement for some. say doesn't turn people into child rapists it perhaps turns people into people who have hidden sexual adult relationships and you know there's there's no link to suggest something between between the 2. however the fact. the catholic church is an institution and the priesthood is a is a vocation an institution within which one hides one are denies one's sexual south that itself may or may be one of the reasons why he explained people with very dark and sinister aspects to their sexuality or their sexual conduct are attracted to it and equally it's a role that gives and has given people extraordinary access to children and i don't question control and access to children so the ability for
a sexual offender to access victims to be free to abuse with with impunity has been extraordinary so i think those are the dimensions of the church its structure the structure of the priesthood the fact that the church not only want to prevent abuse from happening but it will collude in it being corrupt it will facilitate it is often seen the priest almost as a victim and the child as the temper of the priest it's over it's concern has generally been for the priest and for the institution another role for the victim just really briefly because we're running out of time but if you take away the white colors and the oregon sounds other stories of sexual abuse will end up looking very similar to those who just discussed the way i talk to women who suffered rape in the u.s. military the same attempts to cover up to shame the victim are there it's the same there are many cases of sexual abuse of minors in boarding busy schools orphanages you mention that as well is the charge really that different from the rest of the
world and as regards i feel like it's probably maybe a marrow of the society. absolutely norm in the church at the end of the day despite its proclamation of itself as a divine institution it's a human institution it's run by people it's run by men and we are flawed and we don't always conduct ourselves properly or appropriately and institutions generally work to protect themselves on the more powerful institution the more money the more authority the more position of house the more aggressively and even violently it's inclined to protect itself and we see that right across the world i worked for many years in the united kingdom we saw their major investigations into historic abuse of children in council run homes and in homes in institutions that were run by the state their institutions work to protect themselves and again that's why it's incredibly important that we have laws put in place by the states and that ensure and demand good child protection practice but also but punish those who would cover
up or facilitate these crimes as well as those who perpetrate them called thank you so much for. your interview for your time for this inside will wish you all the best of luck in that was that you're doing. thank you very much and i hope you succeed for talking to call mom bormann survivor insider against sexual abuse the man who said that it can be about the crisis the catholic church is going through the latest child sex abuse revelations that's it for this edition of so i'll see you next time.
that nothing not oh. oh oh. oh oh oh. please. oh why a paradise with so much around turned into a round the experimentation field the agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants there's no question otherwise why would that the chemical company workers themselves be geared up that suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments that often in day you have many of these people have one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in
the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of environmental research going on in hawaii whether these companies feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. for food.
and a very warm welcome to you what an awesome scene. as an officer. to get up off the ground sir began to down. democrats on the sounds of. a grown man like wrestling essentially. twisted away from the office or. the obvious or did they kind of lunge for the weapon once missed and then when it happened on tree swung at the observations didn't hit them i never saw any contact with. any kind of went back to where they were so the officers back here they're probably again 15 feet apart at this point and that's when the officer is gone and he did it on 3. welcome to. the.
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