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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  November 23, 2019 10:30pm-11:01pm EST

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the petition of yugoslavia once thought to be a colossal chapter has come back with a vengeance from diplomatic sabotage. to the government's paralysis in bosnia and hard to hold in that the balkans still struggling with the all premises while eagerly nursing the new ones in this period of increasingly result of the another conflict well to discuss that i'm now joined by the boston circulator dodik in the express mr dodik thank you for joining us on the ship got next year will mark the turns this is anniversary of the daytona courts which back then were widely considered a diplomatic win for the clinton administration about the state interestingly now it's russia who insists that this agreement should be observed rather than the u.s. . how would you personally explain this ironic historical twist. russia is the only one who false international law and international
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treaty in question which undoubtedly the dayton accords are going to throw out even after clinton the north of us administration continue to derogated the agreement and it will be in line was earlier promises to the muslims and bows to governor worth of that they would calm down and subsequently make the country for muslims as they wish. they had been doing this for 24 years. in any case they have dismantled the date on the words to the extent that republika srpska used to be destroyed. of course they failed to do so but they took many rights from people like a serb scum they were the only ones who systematically violated the dayton accords with their most introduce the term the spirit of dayton rather than the letter of the date and in that spirit to try to take all of the rooty away in turn serbs and croats you know i've been through the more 1st mass to be submitted politically to the will of the muslim. soraya you know if
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a border of the. collateral damage in that case call it that only would possible trace will be with me. in one of your recent insidious so you could boast in herzegovina i quote and i'm certainly created state if you're still living within the framework of this agreement at this point other daytona courts are doing republican serbska more harm than good. there is no doubt that bosnia and herzegovina was an experiment it goes up at the top when the dayton accords were adopted and that experiment of the main idea was to create a perfectly normal society of democratic principles from a conflict ridden society all out of the blue. of course this was not possible so if you not want to democrats in the former yugoslavia mostly in her to govern i was said to be a small yugoslavia because the relations of the same people who remained in bosnia-herzegovina were the main problem in the former yugoslavia. croats and
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muslims were the dominant national and ethnic groups in yugoslavia and then suddenly at the end of this process of the dissolution of yugoslavia someone powerful in the west sad that bosnia which essentially has serbs croats and muslims as the dominant national ethnic groups must remain in place more often the main question is if a large yugoslavia could not survive in the cold but how could a small yugoslavia survive or not. somebody is not recognized by the agreement were formed for such as the peace implementation council it is not only dayton accords. it has taken over the decision making process on the part of the international community in relation to bosnia and herzegovina. and it introduced a special way of governing in the last 15 years the neighboring the ambassadors of the countries of that council to meet in sarajevo and decide what to do most in herzegovina. that was. by introducing
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a new system of government for your children or call the system and equip them better. there is nothing like this in the world but we're told there's been 24 years after they went was signed. the international community remains here. they have not dismantled the dayton accords enough to destroy the subjectivity of republican voter to assure that is why the high percentage still here as well. 33 just like 25 years ago the issue of nato when it comes to determining the future of this region washington is adamant that wasn't in her its government but it should activate the membership action plan for the war and your public stance is the only reason it hasn't happened yet but why do you object. to woodridge over norm on a minimal ideologic now i will continue objecting talk to
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a lot of republicans serbska the everyone agrees those in power and their position which we must not become a nato member under any circumstances our reason is clear nato bombed pretty public . not to be bombed using depleted uranium munitions for throw that still is killing our children today. nato bombed serbia. nature was starting our nation huge material damage and killed many people. will be remarked if we decided to become a nato member but what we would give it a moral right to believe that it did the right thing for moral stand this way we would betray the memory of those who died as a result of. a new corporate bombing operation was called the angel of mercy can you imagine that. not on or. another important point of course is
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the fact that serbia were and is the home country of my people has established a policy or military neutrality and republican is following that policy or. we do not want to line or even the balkans which is now formally border to be strengthened and kept in place we wanted to disappear. secondly the more if we made the decision it would have to spend twice as much money as we spend today in our armed forces we war that would be a blow to our economy were not in our state budget do not true that would mean no more we have to buy military hardware and weapons exclusively from nato countries. is only one of the reasons for me to say that all possible ways of becoming nato member would definitely lead us into the situation room and we will lose our political autonomy. a few weeks ago there were hearings held in the united states congress with
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a new very interesting title successes and unfinished business and finance in the western balkans. you name came up a lot which i'll admit that mentions mostly in a negative context as the main obstacle to progress but tree no that leaves me just a bit different and she used to be quite well in washington right madeleine albright spoke well of here. wallace. what has changed. maybe the circumstances do you think that you might do more then criticize in order to take care of their so-called unfinished business and the western balkans progress through reform because we saw what kind of progress that was saw that with our own eyes being bombed here. and i think we should start with a battle of the united states was almost the only superpower in the ninety's had to go to. you know put through i was elected prime minister that was
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a very important step out of the political lobbying we were in total isolation what i was a previous leader of republic of recorders. other put on trial out of that your story we were completely isolated surrounded and probably as we saw it later. we were in the plans for destruction or never possible meaning of that word but we put them on over. me of course my role was 1st try to open up the public a service as much as possible at that time made sense to sort things out and work with americans of americans from what i did put out there so at the time we really expected to find a server who would become their contractor and what do you make them and their plans of dismantlement because serbs go without rather a venue where confirm that has changed they're going about through found a local political landscape has changed too i mean it's a global new order today that america is not what you used to be 10 years ago.
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when our own doctor i'm just trying to be realistic with russia would go up to 100 to leave story they ask me to accept changes to the constitution and make republicans serbska numb to shell i did not agree to that ground that is one of the misunderstanding started at least indirectly i have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments statement. the .
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welcome back to all the part of the boston syrup later we'll add thought it. nato membership is usually presented as step one to joining the european union. and we know you envisage republican serbska eventually becoming part of the commons in the european space. what do you say that still whatever realistic prospect. no documents that need to use a lobby leading to the european union today when the 5 few countries are not new to
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members. it was only because of the west's brush that the eastern european countries actually joined on a. they did it to get into the e.u. sooner. than they were we have separated history. and the e.u. membership talks today. at least as the e.u. says it's. you don't need to be a part of nature to have these storks. and that makes the situation way more simple . the european union is full of internal problems the latest messages that have come out of those about a large amount and enlargement negotiations with old man here and you know macedonia they have significantly harder mind our confidence in this whole process has never been an association based on equality and everyone is supposed to follow instructions coming from brussels i think they have internal problems and they
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themselves say that until they solve them any large land is impossible so clear messages have been sent to us that we need to look after ourselves here to believe in ourselves infusing hasn't for the european union has significantly weakened not only more of the story that it was standard 15 years ago so i can give you any estimate you have a hard sale of us press it appeared like to ask you about that. then. that you spoke of. they were not given the green light for membership talks because a man around the fronts objected to it saying that reforms should come 1st and only after that might anyone be invited to the negotiating table in your opinion can be an honest demand and that is this is a pretty good on the eastern european countries being deceived then he and north
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mess dounia agreed to becoming a to members. has conducted the necessary reforms for and even changed his official name. government had to pay a high price for that despite all that the 2 haven't been given what they're seeking not. significant price. of corn has been talking a lot recently making many promises there were no he's trying to secure a dominant position in the e.u. that is what we think emerged from the reason for that is that the u.k. is leaving their much course and germany will be without an important leader such as merkel next year. or. in any case would work i think we should remember the story of nato and the 5 nonny non-native countries in europe when it is true that they have promised negotiations to not and most don't in this country has entered this difficult process of changing its name to dawn and of course albania in the past was very easy to give it any promises given the strategic
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position. but this. could be very new cannot just likely that the 2 countries are moving towards a nato awarded but this will be very difficult considering the european union position not on or. not so the process is not the same for everyone. new toyota from the most need to comes from a position of force and this is not easy for us from europe here we are a little country warning for us is difficult to face such an enormous political military conglomerate and to push our independence through nirmal as well as our identity but here we are showing that this is indeed possible previously you said that oftentimes become a topic of conversation in the u.s. congress they say that i am an obstacle in the way of progress it is really incorrect to claim that progress demands on one person only on it's almost
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impossible to do it's not logical it's not true. and yet the congressmen say that that's the usual way of doing things for the united states does the government doesn't like it puts the blame on the one person only in order to break them and the u.s. is doing that to me and i'm aware of it one example is the fact that i have been blacklisted by the u.s. administration if anyone asked me how i feel i would say that it is easier for me that way because i don't have to interact with the american so often now. but once i'm here now let me ask you personally to theme to the question. i know the president mccrone triggered wave of resentment when he called boston herzegovina ticking time bomb on the contrary and him being friends. by definition. below a turning given time they say do you think that your country as it is today just.
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a route into war which unfortunately has already happened here because you did thought it was just which i was definitely story around old enough i'm definitely convinced that there is no conflict about to happen here but i cannot rule out the possibility of a terrorist threat from a grown considering what himself spoke about a book or a bushman on the door said that many people from france have gone to fight for the slum mixtape. because some people from bosnia went there to fight for. you not even one serb left not even one. moslems did. i mean the radical ones and they could be seen as a real terrorist threat to bush and bush has already today in bosnia from their own muslim communities where is based on. it's being promoted and that it could
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be a very dangerous mix if combined with the problem of those fighters who are returning from syria boy you really need to take care of that. when you add to that one part of the islamic community if not the religious islamic community from serbia most there ready to license officials. and others who provide the basis for such sentiments that we must not rule out the possibility of terrorist attacks by these very individuals or not but that could be just as dangerous as any large scale conflict with a lot. richer richer rather well for over a year now has been in the governance crisis it's been basically para lost that the 2 entities of the country have been unable to form a central government that isn't the reason for that and the political or even the joke only to. games around. talked about previously knicks are trying to internationalize the problem of malls and herzegovina once again the generation of
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those politicians who stood at the helm in brussels and washington at the time of conflict are leaving. they thought it at the public a serbska should move towards need to. be other ones who don't want to change nato . for us was not negotiate. they knew it and that is why they say you're not going to move to need to reform no government will be formed and i said what ok you're not going to move towards nato and we will form a government. one year after the elections you do know is that you have no elected government at the level of bosnia and herzegovina no more room to pick one i cannot really say when it will finally happened to certain is that we cannot accept the membership action plan. b. which just difficult to avoid cooperation was needed at least in some way we do not want to start membership go she asians and that's what they are trying to impose on
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us in brussels and elsewhere in asia they are saying that it is not going and republicans serbs. are throwing spokes in the will. just work i said well as a republican serbska isn't sitting idly by as far as i know the parliament discussed a possible referendum in nato membership last week not in the edition you are known for openly advocating for the complete independence of your country russia is what comes 1st for us to become fully independent or avoids becoming a need to mend the room you know they want to look through we're not taking any action on independence but republika srpska does not rule out such a possibility they for example if you were to vote in a referendum on republicans and asked for or against republican could be an independent state. according to all the polls that we have you know there were 3 as well as the foreign ones over 82.283 percent of people would vote
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for an independent country. that is a considerable number. of the number one story is that the west maintains that bosnia and herzegovina should be good through and that is you know to introduce a one man one vote system throughout bosnia and herzegovina for liberal societies in the west 3 cause this is understandable given the fact that there are 3 constituent nations that are leaving here that have their rights given to them by the constitution and force today to put us through this very difficult to expect list to be enforceable through my muslim and they stop with that kind of story they want the muslim bosniaks or in absolute numbers the majority to be given the country or at least waiting a bit where he would become a minority that is something we cannot accept a force and for these reasons the public in a public prefers the story about status after all what we should not be forgotten
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that with serbska was formed with the aim of 9 independent reward you know and after 4 or 5 years accepted an international agreement of the high degree of autonomy show to know that it only has been substantially corroded over all the stein by the high representative we have very dissatisfied with the worst we are not in the position to decide where we figure who decided to remove we would not state imposed in herzegovina not even for a 2nd. quite often vilified called one of the kremlin's puppets. of the russian what they entre and that is currently more active in the balkans that it was say 15 years ago to be perfectly honest i don't always fully understand the gills of russia's foreign policy in the region is this something you dislike about russia's presence here. russia is acting correctly in the region. russia is here to help you bomb which not to lecture anyone on how one should behave in the political arena going to throw anyway it's
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a completely different approach. have always had a special place for russian army. they know which in the west a very well known viral today. in the west to preventing their frustration was rochelle me and its economic growth and growing just gotten by talking about that going to the bad russian influence here in the balkans but in fact the only bad influence here is the one coming from the west you know the west that has broken our political and institutional will to get what it wanted to achieve its own political goals but we don't be russia has never done that. you're going to get any we're talking about russia. i have talked to president vladimir putin many a time is a thinker put you know there has never been a single request we could be in there is always one question with the public how can we help coming from russia who would be what. has refused to give its consent
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to bosnia to impose sanctions on russia at the risk of folk but only for mostly end up where we had a disruptive effect. if you knew going in the west or the neutral bridge will they consider this as an order from russia political points not an order you have never talked about it with i've led him a put an already one else. you know russia understands opposition and the context in which we act and we're going about as in a little whether they like it or not who is really more we want russia to be powerful and strong and we rightly expect understanding in the system was on the issues where we are at loggerheads with the west itself. when the europeans or the americans talk about the balkans feels possessive and says they have a claim and they learned i think it's not us then it's russia or turkey or even china they say it's almost like afraid someone else will come and take it that are
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you thought you also seem to talk about the balkans as an object rather than an independent actor in a global politics do you personally find this offensive in any way you or your peers there game or pro that's how they just defy their actions we hear from others that we need to talk about europe and america think that they could come here was a stake they don't ruin the man things from us that of course you go to go would never work 20 years ago it would have a broader nature's presence here was very strong there were 60000 nato troops in bosnia and herzegovina of course nato could dictate the policy they failed to break the will of people but that was really why do they think that they can change it now when everything has changed in my opinion balkans will organize themselves in the future as for the boundaries they like to say that they are definite that if you take history no more storage nothing is definite. but in any case you or i
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believe the things will have to be resolved in the balkans by organizing countries was one dominant nations were going to end this way it will be possible to define the balkans permanently as for the attempts to preserve these multi-national communities as they are as they try to preserve bosnia and herzegovina or to one of these attempts are doomed to fail. through what they seek also has the right to secede and that serbs are now a minority there so they basically have serbs in kosovo victims were taken out of the state of serbia and now that telling them to stay silent because they are minority all that is certainly not going to contribute to listen lucian of the problem. it is something that has proven to be historically unsustainable the will of people isn't viable one day that will is going to prevail in the west see a thought i mentioned russia and turkey who have historically had their interests in the region and the but often times conflict in interests. and over the past 10
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years we can see as in the case of syria. can reach compromise beats with difficulty when it comes to a 3rd party and its terror train hard to believe the balkans could benefit in any way from this experience being a problem. when the relations between turkey and russia deteriorated because of the downing of russia's plane or was syria. but economy of turkey experienced a very serious problems. later on america and europe tried to freshen urge. that did not undermine turkey's economy well sure russia's actions did though. i think it is good that turkey and russia copywrite today. it also means that we can count on some greater understanding here. because before turkey only supported the bosniaks on the muslims there. were good relations
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between turkey and russia could help the balkans and that's quite natural but i think that this cooperation that turkey and russia have today are a very good example of how things can get normal. but this does not of course rule out these basic political problems more of a post or you know the basic political problem here in bosnia herzegovina that serbs do not think that will mostly inherits a government is their country the problem. serbia is our country. so are the republicans serbska remains committed to certain amee reporter go through the best possible relations with serbia. we do not. want to do any harm to the bosnian. bosniaks must learn bosnia herzegovina this it's for all of us here inside that country and that's republika srpska is exclusively ours and when they learn that lesson then will be able to cooperate on this and have to leave it here thank you
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very much for your time. this conversation going in our social media pages ask for me and the team we hope to see your same place same time on the part. join me every thursday on the alex salmond short and i'll be speaking to the world
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of politics. i'm sure i'll see you then. and. suede both the suit. itself moving to. close in this way got so dark and so hard not to think of the mother decided this is the look and i know it's all right then if. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights his way. to. the floor you can fall to the feet all found visible facility that you have the ability to put on. what i think is this is the fund that is
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a constant. give me a trial donald trump wants his day in the senate dismissing this week's a democrat the lead impeachment hearings as a hoax. there is concern over germany's a new attempt to tackle paedophiles online as critics of volcan using police resources to create fake child porn videos on the dark well. and fabrication and false chutzpah would be assassin president evo morales stridently defends himself against allegations of sedition and terrorism but she says the locks up. you can find those stories and plenty more over on our website we will be back with a full round up all the all the latest world news in an hour's time kevin no one in fact will have the weekly in the meantime here on.


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