tv Worlds Apart RT December 5, 2019 4:30am-5:01am EST
and european union was established. to show we are of the same age of course. this. very long tradition the russians or addition european integration tradition and so on indeed. on what will happen inside the european union. and we need to know what kind of transformation is ahead of european nations before we conclude or we can speculate what kind of relationship we can build between russia and when you talk about a new dawn which is you know it carries a positive meaning i think you're somewhat suggesting that the whole should the e.u. enlargement actually preserve a chance for improving this relationship whereas the continuous expansion i would presume would have. jeopardized this relationship even more. yes it
would relationship even more in. extension. it's officially called in the european union would continue i doubt because i think the. growth of the european union is over we see the 1st ever example of a country. leaving the european union the whole atmosphere is completely different than we remember from 1904 early this century when extension of the european union was seen as a. development inevitable development and one of the most prolific and. colorful politician of federalist politicians in europe. former
a belgian prime minister give out hope he repeatedly called european integration a bicycle you cannot stall you should move on you should move forward otherwise you will. lose something and now we see that this movement is over now in your piece you suggest the e.u. will spend the next couple of years who knows exactly how many years focusing on its internal issues so it's rather a home improvement rather than the home expansion project and here in russia we have made any jokes about home repairs how arduous it is how it usually takes much more time money and skill than initially in the visit in case of the e.u. how big is the challenge. the challenge challenge is very big the challenge is very complicated and drugs have played a very interesting role in the whole debate and the one hand it demonstrated that the european union has
a big problem. the 1st country is about to leave. at the same time it demonstrated to all member states how terrible it is and how. meaningfulness it is to try to destroy the times which have been established. centuries and. interestingly those skeptic forces in. france or belgium wherever they dropped the slogan of this mantling the european union and that was very. nice to do i think that for that transformation will be very complicated by the end of the european union will iran have to do new quality and we will see a new another union we don't know yet which one that one somebody renovates their home it inevitably f.x.
the neighbors you hear the sound you see the masses sometimes neighborly relations get sour and how do you think this round of ation is going to a fag the neighbors especially those who once hoped to move in with the e.u. . as far sounds i think sounds the contrary it might become vocal unless allowed. with a lot of sounds from the european union at the peak of its euphoria and extension well we still are hearing accusations that it's russia that is ultimately on demining be sure. to hear it from the european union. likewise from the united states but the main thing which all of us here in russia on the stand because we have same experience it's very tempting to blame anybody else your own fault. and in this country in the rush
to do it but we see exactly this phenomenon in the west especially in the european union but i think it's it it to move over it's a new stage because. for quite a long time the european x. was in the in the state of denial they tried to say that everything is ok there are there are some problems but mainly those are produced by outside forces now they finally concluded that shot something should be done in fact heard you make a very interesting point that for the 1st time since the collapse of the soviet union the countries between russia and the e.u. seizing to be the prime geopolitical real estate sometimes inflated values that they're finally alive to that own devices do you think that realisation has already started to sink in do you see any change in how those countries in between there
are relating to both russia and the e.u. . it's sort of difficult process because for those so-called in between countries i think is a terrible name by the way this has been their geopolitical. extremely discriminating. those countries most of them they got used to live in in in vironment went to perceive themselves as very juicy after office and from the beginning from 1090 s. it was consciously or unconsciously this willingness to play games between those who. russia against the e.u. russia gives the or maybe not. but the. entity has to get some benefits out of them. and we see the results unfortunately what happened in
ukraine 5 years ago. and what does continue to happen now it's still logic stand brought up though this this i call object of course this is a problem for both russia and the european union as well and i remember personally my multiple conversations with the european friends and american friends in 1900 special into silence when i tried to explain to them that. soviet union lost the cold war and the former warsaw pact states where. it was inevitable that the would go to nato or to to its western alliance but don't touch ukraine because ukraine is something completely different for russia and. they never never bought my arguments in that same article that i referenced earlier reach was published in july you also predicted that from now on the ukraine will be encouraged to develop
a less confrontational relationship and with russia and well you know next week the russian and the ukrainian presidents for the 1st time will meet in person under the watchful eyes of their french and german counterparts how significant is that. it's pretty significant because this is the 1st meeting in this so-called normandy 4 months since october 16th so quite the while and i personally have no doubts the. president really wants to move forward he wants to he was elected because of public demand for peace and normalization with russia but this is a positive side negative side since july. july when he was elected and then. rather the parliament was in place. he go it's enormous credit and he got enormous. he got
a historic mandate mandate you sad that he has not been skillful enough to use and my question to you is you know some people could argue that meeting with putin is already a pretty bold step for the ukrainian leader what else could he have done that he's not doing to move things forward you know meeting is rather or rather a gift from fortune to him because. you know he's facing a lot of political pressure from ukrainian extreme ride that not to do that i mean that there it he's also under pretty difficult political he's under extremely difficult political conditions and. she's struggling with opponents inside the country and opponents outside the country and now he is absolutely. positioned to be set to say bargaining chip in domestic infighting in the united
states but i mean speaking about his own domestic politics what else could he have done to fulfill demanded this unique mandate that you mentioned i don't think he could do much. on the line of don't boss in this music process yet what he had to do and what he from my point of view so far failed to do to establish a war kink mechanism how to govern the country as you mentioned a couple of minutes ago she got the historic mandate no one before nor ukrainian president had such a strong support from both population and the parliament and then this in this regard if. a more skillful a more experienced politician would be in his place maybe he would the chief more unfortunately zelinsky from my point of view is still in the position of playing the role of a president which he did before he became politician rather than to be
join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. my feeling with this world is white males were. here for this certain generation that's controlling all the politics around the world still when the generation guys all. children that are brought all this. movie are just materialistic don't really care about these things all the even more automobiles on the job want to ride a bicycle this movement is global and it's going the world is cause to go this direction and it's going to change.
welcome back to worlds apart be a further look piano fanatic turn in chief off russia in global affairs magazine mr mccann i've just before the break we started talking about this december 9th meeting in france which just like the hall normandy format was designed to address specifically the conflict in eastern ukraine as entangled as that issue is can it be tackled without reassessing at least in part this whole e.u. russia ukraine command drome and by that i mean economic ties between russia and ukraine. publicly warm but privately cold and distant relationship between ukraine and the e.u. the nature of that mutual commitments etc all these host of issues that precipitated the conflict in the 1st place. that's very difficult because
on the one hand you write the whole ukrainian disaster. was a product of the relationship between russia ukraine ukraine the us on the same time. on the stage who are now. you cannot start with the global big tasks and say ok let's discuss. and then the university can just start with the e.u. for example could start with having an honest conversation about the ukraine and discuss whether ukraine will ever be part of the e.u. what ukraine is getting from the association agreement whether ukraine once you have some sort of economic relationship with russia i mean we don't need to start big i mean those are issues that directly a fact the lives of everyday people yeah you know it would be great unfortunately in this particular case i'm afraid that no one. those involved. wants to
be 100 percent. open and honest that that was the nature of this conflict from the beginning it was based on very sort of to say. from all sides and to start with this. chance to undermine everything why russia is so. insisting on a very formal past. described in the minsk documents because this is a way to. formalize steps which should be done and to stop to. hypothetical it can lead to a much bigger solution in the future at the same time for ukraine.
agreement. was an agreement to stop war it was a very big war which ukraine was about to lose and they signed this agreement which from. that's argument that they don't have to fulfill it because it was signed under duress. argument not to fulfill them and president poroshenko. and the ukraine have no choice but that was a product of very complicated circumstances now on the one hand sometimes it looks like like a deadlock in the same time why all sides stick to the there is no other framework to go if removed. agreement form then nothing else is left and down for a new war it will be quite a time now the russian ukrainian relationship has 2. major components economic and security i want to start with economic and i'm sure you would agree with me
that in addition to solving the conflict in this to me a crane russia and ukraine now has a much more accurate. disappeared to settle i'm talking about the expiration of the gas transit contract the contract for transiting russian gas to the european union and what i find historically ironic that ukraine now after arguing for years that russia is using gas as a geopolitical of weapon against it it is now insisting on the long term called contract with moscow which moscow is trying to evade do you think the 2 will be able to meet each other halfway yes i think it's. fortunately or unfortunately not new so we have trouble with. the gas field since. 2910 years ago it was a huge crisis disruption. supplies to the european union. the
contract which is expiring now was signed at the moment. it will be difficult it will be. and i'm afraid they will sign it because they know after. will be. launched. basically a russian position will be much much stronger and ukraine will be not in the position to dictate now i don't know if you would agree with that but i think one silver lining in this genuinely awful russian ukrainian relationship is that the crayons over the last 4 or 4 or 5 years have stopped taking russia and the economic benefits that they derive from being graphically close to russia for granted and what we have to do it is disguise that flipping the. gas transit cop a contract is one indication of that is there any chance that these economic promises and this whole conflict erupted into what it is today from these economic
promises the promises of better life is it possible that their relationship could ultimately be patched up by the economic considerations as well that the ukrainians will see the pragmatism of having some sort of a very relationship with russia or do you think we have long been past that i'm rather skeptical of course we see how strong ties are and where because after 5 years of mutual rejection of a very very clear and. aggressive. government. to russia economically with russia. doesn't doesn't matter. consequences didn't matter and russia of course russia. suffered a lot from. disruption of economic relationship but this by that we see
that trade is growing so extremely strong nature a lot of go. and the same time you know for a very long. i cannot imagine any russian government to. a launch pad over konami time. now you wrote recently that russia is now and tearing into the real post imperial stage in which it can finally a rest assured that ukraine georgia moldova ville not be part of the e.u. and nato for the foreseeable future if the kremlin is indeed as sure of that as you believe why it is sticking to its guns and by that i mean insisting very have only on the autonomy of donetsk and lugansk as
a guarantee you that that's not going to happen. ukraine is a very special case it was from the beginning. there is no other territory no other country which would be that there are 2 russian minds and hearts as ukraine for a minute just about minds and hearts or is it ultimately about security and security is perception as well if you perceive certain territory as being highly vitally important for you then of course you extrapolate from that also security fears and ukraine you might say russia is crazy you might say russia is right but this is a fact of alive what we tried to explain to our west. why do you think there is the there is still this insistence on the former path is it just the then the willingness to recognize your own mistakes because if for example either the e.u. or i need. tallow russia in some formal matter that this is not going to happen
that would solve a lot of issues connected to ukraine i mean it's understandable how difficult it is for president but you know nato and the e.u. could do part of the difficult job for him no there will never see. russia but. because it's. our. alliances for blocks based on certain political values and perceptions. the idea that any country has the right to choose alliances was one of the fundamental i mean look what happened with this idea. and the infamous adani rich even changed i mean the like you know a hypo chorus is another pillar of political action in the west.
the sad story by by. or you should criteria that will continue indefinitely the same with ukraine at the same time no one ever . for almost ukraine membership especially in the e.u. the only statement i can remember it was made by mr younker the former head of european commission a couple of years ago when he said that for next. to 5 years ukraine cannot expect to join the european union for at least 25 years so in this regard what ukrainians created for themselves is imagination and there's the problem i want to ask you about made today alliance is celebrating 70th anniversary this week and i think it's fair to say that just like in case with the e.u. eighties going through a period of understanding what it is what it stands for what its future is there
are lots of internal disagreements there we just witnessed very interesting interaction between present across on and president tron but their formal alliance the official line remains the same russia is the existential threat do you think any amount of internal disagreements can undo that. because i feel sort of. in this way they have not just stayed but this stake cannot leave. portugal turkey and. greece. have. evolved their security about threats to no one they have a completely different context and situations and in this. to keep at least formally going you need something which. all members.
to point out he was russia wrong to take crimea yes ok. russia is a. and that's. i heard you say even before that this means russia's threat is very convenient very expedia and a both to the e.u. and to nato for canalize ing and reframing internal disagreements and. you know i think it's also ironic that they would find that own internal problems more threatening last possible to me down the russia thread to some extent russia's threat is much less threatening but i also heard you say that at this point the e.u. actually needs russia. to increase its room from when you were with the united states possibly for many other issues as well don't you think that sooner or later these
nesat city for cooperation with russia will prevail. but again i'm not very much of the mystic the only person in the european union who has a vision which is not strong but vision is present. and he understands that. because he he believes that france needs a relationship with russia to strengthen its positions in the united. states. but at the same time any 2nd european politicians start to discuss to. realize how we get they are themselves. without the united states and unfortunately. for russia they are afraid of russia so much that the media this stop the sinkhole to keep ties with the united states are the same time the more this. we could have also discussed what is really the united states because for all
their disagreements both present a chronon president trump. are both critical of nato and that both on the way open to developing a relationship with russia but mr know piano we have to leave it for some other time because our time is up thank you very much for coming although i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages as for me and the team. same place same time on worlds apart.
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dogs don't buy dog on o.t. . in. moscow slums germany's decision to expel 2 russian embassy stuff is calling the move on friendly an unjustified many claims as evidence to link russia to the murder of a georgia national the happened in berlin several months ago. for the elections looming the leader britain's labor party is smeared by accusations of spreading so-called russian this information but the main accuser the daily telegraph newspapers apparently used to say they'll see it before itself with details on that coming up with. a u.k. universities on the file for god lines it's set to start travelling to its new campus in dubai which suggests they should highlight this section.