tv Government Access Programming SFGTV December 25, 2018 11:00pm-12:01am PST
there's not been just two. also, the offers of soundproofing, you would like to hear that they've been trying to help us. after three months, what the conversations have looked like is russell sending us an e-mail, do you guys want your windo windows soundproofed? yes. silence. hello, can we follow up on the offer? silence. russell comes back, tony, like, did you want this? i thought we said yes. so it's back and forth. nothing has been done. i brought the quotes, but she's turned that against me. the one in san francisco that wanted to especially had us in all my -- that wanted to help us, in all my windows, not just the ones that she's talking about, came out to 30 to $50,000. >> hi, commissioners. also just want to point out that pictures that -- >> can you state your name, please. >> oh, yeah, sorry. my name's phil wong. and i just want to point out
the photos that gina had captured of our apartment, it's actually the wrong windows, so i just wanted to point that out? >> so i really want to say that i feel like we've been having similar conversations for the past two years where gina has been giving the commissioners and us, the neighbors, the run around where she's promised to uphold the conditions but failed in countless accounts. she's rather focusing her energy and attacking us instead and continuing to operate as usual. i'm looking to the commissioner for further ways to alter her operating permit until gina starts complying. >> thank you. any other public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. gina, if you don't mind, and i
want to stay focused on this. so we do have a lot of recommendations that our staff has given us, and i just wanted to -- before we talk about the solutions that you -- >> i also just want to state that in the -- there were three things -- first of all, tony's information is not in -- in fact actual. we were not cited on december 1. we did not receive a citation on december 1. the reason we pealed the citation -- appealed the citation, we appealed the previous three citations. we would have won the appeal, your meter was not properly calibrated. one thing i would like to address, as well is that we were -- it also mentioned that we're operating without a sound person on-site, and i think inspector fiorino, there was a
sound inspector that's on-site. >> until there's other commissioners that have preference is, i personally would like to go through each one of these and talk them with you very quickly. this is a very specific situation for us, and there's two sides to this dispute, and boyds a both sides feel genuinely victimized by the other and that they are being treated unfairly. these are the situations where this body has a very difficult job, which is to try to step in and mediate between the two sides. so with that in mind, i just want to go through these and maybe we can find some common-sense solutions that would maybe work and ask you how you feel about them, and we'll probably discuss after that what you want to do. so the first -- what you already -- your lawyer already indicated that you would be
okay with, that you would provide a calendar of events for extended-hour entertainment past 4:00 a.m. at all times. that's definitely on the table for us, because i think it was a little unclear before, but it seems -- it seems that would be helpful. is that something that you would be open to? >> yes, and i would like to point out that we have the events -- like, the june events were noticed on june 5, and the december events were noticed on december 6, but i would understand you would like it further in advance, and more beneficial to have it further in advance. >> yeah, and you mentioned making an executive decision before, and we're trying to avoid situations where you have to make an executive decision. we're trying to make this very clear, i don't have this option tonight, or i do have this option. >> understood.
in gratitude, mrs. weiland told me if -- >> yeah, so this goes to the next -- i think the next item, which is the -- you know, that you would keep a nightly record of when you closed by taking a date and time stamp picture and just sharing it with us. it's maybe a little bus onerous -- bit onerous, but i can imagine this would be a situation where it would be protective of you. >> sure. one of the things that we considered submitting was all of the time clock departures of our staff. our staff departs at certain times on certain evenings, and generally speaking, our staff is out at 4:00 a.m., with the exception of the manager, who's counting cash and things. >> do you playoff a computer or -- >> it depending on how many people -- i actually was thinking about submitting video
to you. it's not like it's 50 people i'm kicking out. sometimes it's just huge numbers of people that we're being forced to remove from the venue at 4:00 in the morning. you know, the venue is really busy. there's tons of people. it's really unfortunate that my licensing was changed and limited to 4:00 a.m. and brought in line with all of the other night clubs in san francisco -- >> miss milano, i just want to tell you, i juyou've made this exceptionally clear. i'm trying to be your advocate to the extent we can be. i just want to understand, we've got to get through this. >> okay. understood. >> i'm going to call it an ipod, even though no one uses it anymore.
sometimes that gets very loud and causes disruptions to the neighborhood. it's not our exact parameters, but as an after-hours permit holder, we take everything into account. do you play dance music. >> no, it would be, like, disco. like, christmastime, we may play mariah carey. >> the next issue, it seems like an issue despite your best efforts, it seems like there is decibels that spike despite your best efforts. having something that would record your decibels. how do you feel about having a limiter? >> are all of you aware how a limiter works? how it compromises the sound system? a limiter really damages the
quality of the audio of the night club. my system is very specific. it's a graed sound system, so that sort of thing makes it very obvious when the limiter kicks in. it squelches the sound and makes it very obvious. it's a crowd killer. i would like to explore ways to be in compliant without putting a limiter on the sound system? that's not what my first choice, by any stretch of the imagination. >> okay. and then the final -- well, actually, it's not the final. there's an idea that's been proposed to us to do a -- a separate ambient noise reading for times after and before. how do you feel about that? >> i think that this is actually a good idea. i think this is the best proposed one thus far. i think that i have also -- you know, i've been speaking to other third-party providers who specialize in sound mitigation in large markets, and i think that, you know, conducting a
study of the ambient sound during operations, like in real lifetime, and when other venues might be closed, and then also changing the dba ratings inside, based on the opening hours, which we've discussed before, i think that's a reasonable -- a reasonable way to approach this. >> okay. thank you. >> yeah. >> so that's -- the last two, we kind of already covered. questions from the commissioners? sorry. i usually go last, but i wanted to just kind of make sure we were all on the same page here. >> hi, miss milano. >> hi there. >> i have a few questions. so you openly admitted to us that you made an executive decision to do something we conditioned you not to do. >> i did that because steven lee said -- i told him, i said at the last commission -- >> okay. but your permit condition said that you can't do it. steven lee, we have opinions up
here, and they come out, and then, we vote, and then, we figure out what the words actually say. so i'm curious because this is obviously not the first time we've seen you, it's not the second time we've seen you, it's not the third time we've seen you, my concern the last time we conditioned you was to be sure you could just follow the rules. and you've told us that you don't think your rules make sense. you think that maybe somebody disagrees with the rules, and you go along with that, that you make an executive decision because you have a crowd that's appreciative of breaking the rules. what's going through my head is a lack of trust of you being able to follow future rules. we have new ideas, some of them you're saying you like, some of them you don't like. the challenge is better or worse, being able to operate here in san francisco. to your credit, i your security
is top inasmuch, your crowd isn't violence -- notch, your crowd isn't violent, but those are the issues. it's about sound, how many times you can be open past a certain time. i don't want to be insensitive to how you run your business. any bad actors are bad apples unfortunately does spoil the pot. i don't know if you were here earlier, but we were talking about some incidents on broadway. there are some bad actors, some good actors, some in between, and it's those that aren't able to meet the rules that we set, that are the publicity, and on 11th street, that's you.
i think i really want to support your work. i love that you're a woman operator and that you're a single woman trying to run the show. but it's tricky when you make moves that say, well, forget that, tonight, that's okay. i'll take the penalty, i'll take a $100 charge, whatever it is, and that just doesn't show a good-faith effort from my point of view. even though we might add additional conditions or change conditions, i still have issues around trusting whether you can do that or not because the last time around, i think we were saying let's just see, let's see how this works. like, i really, really believed you saying hey, i'm going to step up and do it right because my interest here is to actually loosen up all these conditions, and let you operate until 6:00 a.m. every day of the week, but we can't do that if we keep getting complaints, and we can't do that if we keep getting comments not just these
neighbors that we always hear from, but other folks, too. so that's a lot of statement. that's really a statement, not really a question. i guess my question is, i don't know, how do you feel that you can build the trust again with our commission and follow the rules? i mean, i guess i'm just looking for a verbal agreement here, but you've already given that before. >> i understand that, but i think that i can -- i can -- i'm not saying, i know, i can honestly say that when commissioner lee said if you go over -- because i explained to him, it's very difficult sometimes to control these things, he said if you go over, you have to notice us. so in my head, i was not thinking like, oh, i didn't notice that, therefore, i absolutely, positively cannot go over, commissioner lee said oh, if you go over, you must notice us. that's what i did. that's not a blatant i'm going to disregard what the
entertainment commission i said, it was me, in my head, thinking that i can notice you, and that would suffice, that was not a blatant disregard for what the commission had said. and actually, i think it's the -- i don't know the language director, but it says something like as is reasonably possible, right? so it wasn't a blatant disregard by any stretch of the imagination, it was me, again, reflecting on what commissioner lee had said and said i will notice this after the fact. it was our two-year anniversary weekend. so that is where that came from, basically. >> how -- can you just explain to me, how can you not predict a 6:00 a.m. night?
like, how does that happen game time? >> this is, like, a brief history, or a brief lesson in deejay bookings. you get a deejay, and he says i want to go to this certain time. or i'll get something that says oh, the deejay is flying out at 5:00 p.m. on saturday, they would like to play an extended set for you. sometimes, it's a deejay that's not worth my time, and and it's like no, it's not worth my time, i have to close at 4:00 a.m. and sometimes, it's pete tong, who's one of the most famous
deej deejays in the world, this is live, b.b.c., live from halcyon. for us, it's a little bit more of a juggling act, at the same time, trying to preserve our reputation in the industry. we did a lot to build this reputation for ourselves. >> okay. thanks. >> let me follow up. >> commissioner lee, and then commission commissioner falzone. >> when i said if you go over, you notify, and you take away from your 12. the thing is you know you have an anniversary, and you have a pretty decent deejay, and whether you stay open until 6:00, you can call us and say we closed early. you can always notify us, let us know that you are going to
6:00, but if it happened or maybe the deejay cancelled, it can happen this way, but if you ignore this, that's the issue that we're having. >> that's the best way to do that. i do understand that. >> i guess my question is -- and i don't know if this is still a solution or not. are you still willing, if the neighbors are willing, to get sound proofing on their windows, are you willing to pay that if some kind of mediation or mitigation can happen that kind of -- >> i've already invested more than -- >> i'm just asking yes or no. >> no. >> is that a no? >> no. i've already invested that i think is more than my fair share. secondly, i will say that i did offer to pay for the windows at one point, and i was actually -- you actually were the one that brought it up and said we don't want to set a president of venues paying for a neighbor's windows, right?
skbl well, that already exists. that's been going on for decades. >> okay. thirdly, thirdly, to be honest, i was completely disgusted when i saw the notice -- the estimates from him, how low they were, and the fact that i could have mitigated this for so much less money -- >> okay. let's not talk about the past. >> and at this point, i'm willing to pay for their windows. >> i'm not saying that's an active solution, but are you willing to pay -- >> yes, i'm willing to pay a reasonable sum for their windows. >> okay. commissioner falzone. >> miss milano, i have a series of comments more than anything, and i would appreciate it if you would just listen. i really appreciate the comments of commissioner tan. here is the thing that i've gotten out of you in the short time that i've listened to you.
you say that you agree and understand, but then, we get the big butt. you act like it's so difficult for you to shutdown because everyone is having fun. what happens when you have to pull the booze at 1:30? my take away, actually, is you seem to have standards for one agency and a different standard for another. so i really think your problems, going back to commissioner tan is you have a real credibility problem with us. we actually all want to help you, but if you can't follow the most basic rules. you have 17 conditions. adding 50 to your life is not going to solve the problem, and that's why i agree with commissioner tan. we should be heading in the opposition direction, but you simply will not afford us that
opportunity because you will not comply with what you have. i would love a one-minute response. i think th >> i think in terms of the noticing -- the noticing is in your files -- i did notice in may. >> i don't want a hand picked response where you complied. the under written issue here, and everyone is on the same page -- there's no question that you have a dynamic environment. i think where you're missing is your skills give you poetic license with the law. i made an executive decision, we ran one more hour, and it was great. this just adds to it, and we'll keep going. led me add a comment, and then, i have a solution long-term. any time this is brought to a government agency, expecting
the government to fix it in a fair and reasonable way, that is a daunting thing. all of you should have met a long time ago, sat down, broke bread and tried to figure this out. and now, it's before us. what i expect is going to happen, and this is my two decades experience, someone is not going to be happy. i will recuse myself working forward, and i will work with you guys to find a solution. it will be voluntary. that's the best i can offer. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. that was quite an offer. yeah. so i just have a couple comments, and then, i think you can take a seat and we can just kind of discuss this up here. i think, you know, there's a lot of extreme language that's used by all the parties.
i'm not flagrant, i'm not irresponsible, i can't shutdown night life, this person's a liar, this person's a liar. it makes our job harder. i think what some of the commissioners have said, commission tan and commissioner falzone, the way you interact with us, i think it would be better served if you put some of that aside. you can say whatever you want, but i'm trying to think solution based. we love that you have a top-notch club. that's fantastic, but we have very primitive means that are by the law to measure if you're in compliance. they work, and they generally work. we can generally find out over time if somebody's going over their sound limit, and we can find out if they were supposed to inform us or they didn't, and we can cleanup the language around it.
we're trying to use these primitive tools, like commissioner falzone said, to measure the levels of government. i would appreciate it if you would work with us. i think commissioner tan, the whoest true thing -- i could think speak for myself. i want to be able to see you open to 6:00 a.m. seven days a week. but we can't. we can't, and the idea that we're treating you unfairly or differently, it's just not true. we're using the exact same tools that we have for everybody else. that's just my comment. so the idea that we could just work a little more in concert is, i think, the way out of this. i do want to move this along a little bit. i don't think there's any purpose in belaboring the point. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> so we did have a number of
conditions that were suggested by the staff, and i don't know if we want to make a motion to -- i don't know if we want to discuss them first or if anybody has comments or if we want to then move toward a motion. >> and i want to say, i appreciate the conditions that staff have put forward, and i think, you know, they do -- will help us do a good job of having more objective information of when the club is open and when it's closed and when it's staying late. i think miss milano was fine with all of them except the sound limiter one. i mean, i appreciate that what she said was she wants to figure out how to operate in compliance without using a limiter, but i feel like that's what hasn't happened so far is that she hasn't been able to operate in compliance without the use of a limiter.
so i'd like to move forward with adding all of these conditions. >> i have one thought about that, and there is an outstanding citation that's being appealed. if we want to set that specific condition aside, and maybe reexamine it after the results of the appeal. >> you talking about the limiter? >> yeah, because that was an above db violation specifically, and it was a citation specifically, and it is being appealed, and i really specifically to not want to make any decisions tonight on a decision that's making its way through the appeal process. but if we were to calendar a conversation about that specific item pending the appeal, that would be -- i'd be open to that. >> if we calendar an item, the permittee has to come back, and then, we kind of rehash all this again. >> so maybe there's a more creative way -- >> well, i think definitely respect the idea that there is an appeal.
i don't actually know the full content of the appeal, but i imagine that it's questioning the actual number decibel limit and how we measure that? i don't know -- is that -- >> so we haven't received miss milano's submission yet because it's due on friday. it is very much pending -- in terms of the current status, in terms of my prehearing statement, it's in the director's report. so the appeal is specifically around the citation that we gave on october 13 when she was peaking around 123.7, which is above her db limit of 116. but since i haven't received her response yet, i don't know what her arguments are. >> sure. i think it's fair to talk about a limiter because we're not talking about the decibel level, we're not talking about how we measure that -- but we're not talking about our own equipment.
i think she's going to make an argument that our equipment sucks. what she's going to do is say she can get a manager to regulate that. so, you know, i don't have a strong feeling that we have to discuss this today, and i'm happy to defer to the chair. i'm just worried it would reopen this whole thing. >> the only thing is if her ticket's being appealed, what does it have to do with the limiter? >> well, the idea is the limiter, we don't want them going over the db level, and one of the issues, they were cited for going over the db level. >> mr. president, if i can make a suggestion, i think what we're having to lock imposing the limiter is why. if we're imposing it for the totality of what's been playing out, then i think we're on solid ground.
and i think it gets tricky if we start second guessing an appeal because truthfully, it's just that. if we start looking at it from strictly a legal perspective, it will play out its own course. what we're talking about today is imposing on the totality of the circumstances, not because there's a citation. >> i mean -- >> or at least that's what i'm suggesting that we look at. >> correct me if i am wrong, but there are -- no, this is not -- we're discussing amongst ourselves. the limiter only dampens the sounds when you go over the decibel level -- >> but it's clumsy. >> yeah. if you go over, it's going to sound terrible, and everybody's going to know it. i remember back in the day when the police required a limiter on our systems. >> hoorah. >> i don't know what happened, but, you know, and if that's the only way to kind of keep us
from coming back here all the time, i think, you know, until they can prove otherwise -- this takes a lot of time and effort on everyone's part. i think set it at the level that you set, and it's done. and if it goes over, it's because they did it. i hate -- i'm industry, i feel for you. but it happened at my place all the time, but at least i didn't get complaints and calls in the middle of the night. >> let me ask a -- on a positive note, in the event we did impose a limiter, and maybe executive director, this is directed to you, and i thithin significantly improve, can they come back to us? is there a limit -- can they come back in a year? can they come back to any point? >> they can come back at any time, and then, it goes to president bleiman. >> and then, he'll determine if
he's going to put it on calendar. okay. >> just for clarification's sake, on this staff recommendations document, i did put an either-or for the -- you're talking about setting -- or looking at ambient levels, essentially, for the p.o.e. and e.h.p. i gave an option for just the e.c. staff, and i gave an option where they would hire a third-party consultant, and they would do it in concert with them. i do think you should ask the permit holder. >> can we say either-or? here depending the decision of the permit holder? >> yeah, you can, or you can invite her up and ask. >> i don't know, if gina, would you like, miss milano would you say, if we did -- i know you agreed to ambient sound levels at a particular time of night,
would you be comfortable with our people, would you prefer a third-pert alternate kent? >> i think i would prefer my people given my history with the commission. >> okay. >> thank you. >> then i would like to make a motion that we add the following conditions to the after-hours permit for halcyon. first one is that the permit holder shall provide a calendar of events that will extend hours of entertainment past 4:00 a.m. one week in advance to the president of the entertainment commission, concerned neighbors, and sfpd central station. second, the club shall keep a nightly recording time by a picture with a date and time stamp.
condition number three, permit holder shall keep a nightly record of the decibel level inside the permitted establishment from start to finish of all hosted entertainment. a host of the entertainment log may be made available if entertainment commission staff is unavailable to address them in real-time. the next condition is that the permit holder shall hire a sound consultant to conduct a sound study from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. on a night when halcyon is operating past 4:00 a.m. to gather ambient sound levels and during the extended time perioded. entertainment staff shall be on-site during the study. the sound consultant shall conduct new sound tests in concert with entertainment commission staff for new -- potentially new place of entertainment and extended
hours permit sound limits based on the study of ambient sound. and then, the last two that, that the permit holder shall use a sound limiter at all times, and permit holder shall have staff on hand at all times while using equipment that understands sound equipment and knows how to adjust sound equipment at any time. >> if i could just offer a friendly amendment, i think on condition number three, staff suggested second-to-last sentence, if there are complaints, i'd prefer to strike that and just have us the ability -- >> yes. >> that's it. >> that's accepted by me. >> thank you. >> commissioners, i'd like to make a clarifying point. condition four, entertainment commission staff shall conduct a sound study, if we're trying to establish ambient, we should
be conducting a study while halcyon and all other clubs in the vicinity are not operating if that's the goal of that condition is to establish ambient. >> wait. that's not clear. what do you mean? so when halcyon is operating solely past 2:00 a.m.? >> the definition of ambient in the code states that the source at issue should not be operating and other sources in the vicinity should not be operating. >> so ambient is the sound when it is not in operation. >> i honestly don't think that that's a workable piece of code honestly just because the ambient sound levels that we'd be gathering during the p.o.e. period, it's going to be very challenging to do that at a point some other clubs are not operating. this has been going ongoing
issue for 11th street in particular, that their ambient is potentially based on other clubs being active while we do those readings. >> in my opinion, and based on the ambient sound testing in a i performed previously, i was -- that i performed previously, i was able to pick a time just past 2:00 where all the clubs in the vicinity within in operation. >> so it's not an anomaly, so to speak, there are times when they are just operating. >> okay. >> so essentially, the amendment is that we should do this a two-night period from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. when halcyon is not operating. >> other clubs. >> other clubs. >> they're the sole operator. >> so we have an ambient noise level -- i understand what you're saying, sean, but it's
attainable? >> yeah. i think we'll figure out a time when everyone is closed at 2:00, and we would have to have another night where we did a second test to establish a sound level while just halcyon is operating. >> potentially, we can just defer to the code instead of getting in the weeds with this condition. >> okay. >> at a minimum, we've certainly provided a foundation for an argument down the road for their defense. no charge for that, by the way, counselor. >> one other friendly amendment, commissioner thomas, is just the fact that you said these are extended hours to their premises permit only? and i think the limiter affects the place of entertainment, so does the staff person on-site, so does the sound test. you may want to apply these to both permits. >> thank you very much for that
clarification. yes, i did intend for this to apply both to their place of operation permit and their extended hours premises. >> and finally, did you want to note when these conditions should go into effect? is it immediately or do you want to set a date for this? >> in particular, we should set a time frame for the sound consultant study since that's the most time specific. >> yeah. for that one, i think it's okay to say shall. >> right. >> i think they can take effect immediately, but then, they're going to have to coordinate -- >> right. >> the limiter is really what i'm referring to. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so the conditions can take effect immediately. none theless, they're going to have to coordinate the testing because the condition doesn't state actually -- i mean, if we're really going to get into the weeds. >> i think the condition doesn't state when they have to do it.
>> i think we can give them 30 days to get their acts together with it. i think by february 1 would be reasonable. >> by february 1. okay. >> and can i clarify, so that first additional condition about the calendar events, is that going to replace or are we striking how we stated it on the actual conditions, just to be clear? there's two conditions. one set permit holder shall provide a calendar of events one month in event to the commission president, concerned neighbors -- this is the old current condition, and the new one. so -- >> yes. so we are replacing those permit conditions with this new permit condition.
>> does anyone happen to know exactly when they're going to be open till 6:00, right? and if they're not open till 6:00, whatever reason, they contact the director and say -- because they only get 12 -- >> no. as far as i heard from the attorney, they're going to give it a month in advance, at least 30 days in advance. so by december 31st, we'll know what's happening in february . >> right. and there's no more like, oh, there's a lot of people here, let's keep it open. that eliminates that 100%. >> right. which is consistent with how every other club in the city operates. >> i'll second that motion. >> thank you. >> no. we're going to vote on this, and then, you can follow up with the commission staff for implementation of it.
we already did public comment. we should do public comment on this, as well, am i correct? >> you can. >> we'll do two minutes of public comment on this specific item. it has to be -- not the representatives of the venue. seeing none, public comment is closed. [ gavel ] [roll call] >> all right. the conditions have been amended. what's the proper term for this? >> i don't know. >> amended. >> the amended commission -- >> staff considerations and recommendations have been amended. all right. thank you very much. moving onto the last and almost final item, i'd like to get through this one as quickly as possible, but we have to cover it tonight kbauz the staff and a small group of -- because the
staff and a small group of us spent hundreds of hours adjusting the good neighbor policy, and maybe, director weiland, you can very quickly or inspector burke tell us what the impetus was behind this and what that was going to solve, but i'm going to assume that we've all read this already. >> that is the hope, yes. we hope that you all did your homework. i did hear back from commissioner tan today and worked to incorporate some of his changes after speaking with the city attorney. so essentially, our good neighbor policy is very outdated. i'm not exactly sure even the last time it was changed. i'm assuming that it was probably worked on by terrence allen and audrey joseph and a former iteration of the entertainment commission, and they did a fabulous job of
putting this together, and the police department, but over the last 15 years in enforcing venues and looking at good neighbor policy conditions as it is a condition of every permit, some of the previous conditions were unenforceable, didn't give our inspectors the teeth essentially needed in the field to be able to do their job and bring folks into compliant r compliance. some of them -- into clie compliance. so we tried to get really specific here. i can certainly go through each and every one of those conditions, although i don't think president bleiman would like me to do that. >> i think we all had a chance to read over them. >> it sounds like commissioner tan had some suggestions. can we -- >> yeah. i think it's already reflected. >> so it's already in those changes?
>> yeah. it was around trying to have a phone number. it was trying to combine a couple of ideas from the previous good neighbor policy that i thought was getting too vague, so there's just additional language. >> that's number four? >> yeah, number four. >> and then, i do have a couple quick comments that i would just like to share, and if i guys object, i duly accept that. let negame just start with the easier of my comments. permit holder shall maintain records at the premise of current lead certification for all persons working at the premises. my question is are we trying to achieve that all employees are lead trained or on-site? >> yes. >> so we're not asking that everyone is lead trained. that's what you're saying, i'm just trying to get clarification. >> sean burke here. i think our intent was that everyone should be lead trained, and the operator
should have proof that everyone is lead trained. >> i understand. unfortunately, that's not what it says. so i agree with you, and it can be a very quick amendment what we want to do it, but maybe let me get through all my stuff so you guys can chiu on it. my only other comment is regarding number two -- and some of this is just regarding thoughts regarding continuity. my make a comment regarding surrounding neighborhood. i like the word surrounding, but it's not enforceable. i would like to suggest surrounding remain, and then followed by at a minimum of 100 feet as that would be consistent with number zblix. >> -- number six. >> security plan shall be followed for safety of the venue, patrons, and surrounding neighborhood. my only concern is the word surrounding isn't definable. so i was just going to suggest, i like the word, but maybe if
you are -- my fellow commissioners are receptive, i would define by a comma, 100 feet. and that would be consistent with what comes into play on number six. lastly, i totally appreciate that we're addressing staffing levels at 10:00 p.m., but one of our challenge areas is broadway, and i just wanted to bring everyone's attention that we actually have clubs that are opening at 6:00 a.m., and the challenge on broadway is the club's opening at 6:00 a.m., a lot of their customers, they're coming for after-hours clubs, and the police have challenged it at 6:00 in the morning. i didn't have the language. i just wanted to put it on
everyone's radar. so i would -- >> i'm -- personally, i'm ak with adding that as a condition to others when we see fit at 6:00 a.m. >> so i guess the only friendly amendment i would be making is with regard to number two, after the word surrounding, we would just add a comma, at a minimum of 100 feet. and then, number five, that we reword it, in simple terms, that the permit holder shall maintain records and verify that all employees are lead certified versus what we currently have. >> and we had had one discussion ashround that. and i would just say -- i don't mind if their accountant isn't lead certified. >> i grow. i think it's hard to define what a customer service staff is. that's okay. if we can't --
>> i'm comfortable with either. >> i mean, i just want to -- can -- can we actually do that, and what does it -- you know, is the employee, the janitor who's cleaning after hours or is the -- >> i understand. >> well, that's the president's point. he was trying to say those involved in the service. >> you can totally go above the city attorney's head with that. >> i don't want to do something that's in disagreement with them? i just think that some of these venues may have employees that for whom a lead certification is just not relevant. >> i'm okay on voting on this and -- >> what about those that serve alcohol zm. >> -- alcohol? >> well, there's other people that are involved that don't serve alcohol. bar backs. i'm okay with adding your friendly amendment. i totally trust or deputyized staff to go back to the city
attorney to cleanup that language, and if not, we keep it as it is. >> the whole spirit is to get this document to where it's enforceable. >> well, i think the city attorney will have to tell us how we can specify that. >> okay. >> honestly, they can make recommendations, and we can -- she wouldn't mind, honestly, if we added back in verbiage that said customer service staff as long as we can explain very thoroughly to a permit holder what that means. >> prior to enforce. >> pardon me? what was that? >> prior to enforce. >> i think it lends itself to a lot of conversation on-site. well, this door guy's not customer service. this bar back's not customer service. >> you know, lead training is on-line, and it's not difficult. i'm comfortable with saying if you're in this industry, you get lead trained. >> and hopefully, those
dishwashers will advance up to more important positions. >> one can hope. >> i know i'm not the industry person up here, but i'm wary of adding something that may make it challenging to hire staff including for -- i mean, is this for, like, part-time or fill in? this is an industry where folks can move from job to job, and i don't want to be making it difficumore difficult -- i don't want to make staffing difficult as much as i support the intent behind this? and i think our goal as an industry where everyone is -- >> i see this more as a management issue than a staffing issue. i think the lead training is offered in every language, and if it means a manager has to go above and beyond to get somebody trained and working with them, i'm okay with that. >> it's also an asset for the employee, and i would encourage we take a strong position on training. >> i just -- i think lead training is really important. i also think what we're talking about, is offers an
incredible -- it offers an incredible amount of cover to the venue itself, because everyone involved in the incident -- if everybody involved is lead trained, that's a really good thing for the venue, so we're kind of encouraging the best nature for that. >> i'm just worried, like commissioner thomas says, it's hard enough to find help. >> but to sit down with somebody and do a 30-minute lead training or an hour-long lead training with a manager. >> well, the manager does it. >> well, in the situation where somebody was not lead trained and maybe needed more help in order to get lead trained, that would be on the management in order to help them get lead trained and walk them through it and facilitate it. they don't have to be prelead trained, they just have to be
plead trained. >> it's all eyes and ears. >> great. well, i'm happy to defer to my industry colleagues. >> you don't have to be prelead trained. >> i do have one question. assuming we pass this, are all our permit holders grandfathered into the old good neighbor policy or does this apply to the -- >> so the verbiage on folks' permitted is they must adhere to the good neighbor policy. so this would be adopted now, and we would do an out yaereac campaign. it's hard to reach everybody, so we'll also use our enforcement staff to actually go out in the field and provide copies of the new good neighbor policy to folks. >> great. thank you. >> all right. did we have a motion yet.
>> just one more point of clarification. sorry, inspector burke here. i realize that number two, the first sentence is more of an druktory sentence, saying the -- introductory sentence saying that something is -- >> i think 100 feet is totally fine. i don't think we need to scrutinize it. >> well, i just think that first sentence, maybe we can workshop back in the office with the city attorney as opposed to adopting that exact verbiage. >> well, the only problem, from my experience being here for a very long time, we can't defer things out of our committee and then staff fixes it. if you do that, you're going to have to bring back the fix. >> i do think commissioner falzone's friendly amendment made it clear. what do you think? >> i think the 100 feet is
great. i just need -- i'd like myself and katelyn to have exact verbiage for that sentence. >> i provided it. what i'm saying is it is going to stay the same, except for an surrounding, with a comma, a minimum of 100 feet. >> all right. did we have a motion? i got lost in the -- >> i thought mr. thomas was on top of one at one point. >> i make a motion to approve the good neighbor policy as drafted with commissioner falzone's amendments. >> i'll second it. >> is there any public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. [roll call]
>> it has been adopted. great work, everyone, and i want to just commend chief inspector -- is that what we're calling you? >> it is now. >> sean burke for bringing this to our attention, and that was really forward thinking and proactive of you, and i think we made a really big difference here with kind of -- with that move, so thank you for that. >> thank you for your help. >> all right. last agenda item is commissioner comments and questions. anybody have anything interesting? >> sichly thank you to the commission and staff for the great holiday party fantastic job, everybody. thank you. >> absolutely. >> i'll second that. >> is there any public comment on commissioner comments and questions? seeing none, public comment is closed, and this meeting is adjourned at 8:33 p.m.