tv Government Access Programming SFGTV March 17, 2019 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
elections in both june and november in 2017 there were no elections. the number that you see in march of 2018, 45 complaints not yet reviewed is a reflection of potentially complaints that the commission had received going back to 2017. we had in overall, in 2016, the commission received fewer than 10100 complaints. in 2017 commission received just over 100 complaints. in 2018 the commission received 160 complaints. so 60% increase that we stacoming throug-- wesaw coming. >> are you currently fully staffed in the enforcement
division? >> we were lucky enough to make a hire to our investigative team. we hired a senior investigator. we were lucky in the sense that we made an internal promotion. our strongest candidate was already with us on staff. we have enjoyed the opportunity to elevate him and to welcome him to a level befitting of the quality of his work. the result of that is we went through lengthy hiring process, we now have an additional vacancy, which is opening that is promotion has made. >> increase in work as well as shortage of resources? >> yes. the director will provide additional context during her agenda item.
there has been amount of conversation in judge kopp's resignation, those were conversations that we were already having. one reason is intrinsic. these cases can be complex both factually and legally. if the commission wants to approach them with a thorough, fair and accurate effort, frankly that takes lot of time. another reason you suggested chair chiu has to do the impact of elections on the size of the
workload that the division faces. you highlighted the size of the division staff. there maybe procedural reasons why tha it takes us a long time. our division as control over the amount of time it take us to work on these things. we will be putting forth effort in evaluating what those processes look like. we have had some conversation between us and commissioners there whether the commissioners might like to adopt a set of priorities by which you as commissioners would direct the enforcement division to emphasize certain kinds of complaints.
another example, if the division were to exercise more prosecutorial discretion, matters may diminish. the approach of the division is to take complaint seriously and investigate thoroughly every matter that we open. we could in theory, emphasize some matters above others. variety of ways, we can bring those numbers down. if the commissioners believe that it would be important for us to do so. we do recognize that complaints have interest amount of time that it takes. we recognize respondents have an interest and that the public does also.
we will seek to balance the interest of complaintantts response and the thorough and accurate work. we look forward to having those conversations both internally and with the commission. >> following your internal review of your processes and if you have recommendations for the commission, i welcome that discussion. we could have in terms of priority setting. for my own part on if you look on page 5 and there's the chart at the very top of the age of the matters by month and we have 11 greater than 24, i think it my own view, it's critical both from a public trust standpoint as well as from standpoint of the freshness of recollection,
availability of documents that we get through this backlog of cases. i know that historically, there was a large backlog of cases and we went to staffing level of zero. there was cases coming in and inability through circumstance to be able to get through it. we would be well served to focus the attention on those cases and to move through the process such as it is now in order to reach the resolution, particularly the ones cases from 2015. which is coming up four years ago. that would be my suggestion to you. i don't know if my fellow commissioners have additional thoughts on this. i do want to say, for the record, i have full faith and confidence in this investigative team that you have put together. i think it's a a terrific statement that we make internal
promotions. it's not just one a culture of growth for the organization. it's really critical. it speaks highly of the leadership of the director. i look forward to working with jeff and all of you on the enforcement team to tackle these really important matters with respect. i look forward to your recommendations. any other questions? i like to invite public comment. >> good afternoon. i like to speak to the whistleblower protection
training. i actually gone through the process from beginning to end. i think experience enough to speak about it. in my opinion, most people, especially the people that are unable to figure it out for themselves, the process is basically waste of time. in my opinion, there are far more people discouraged than they actually go through the process. i would like to pose that question to a certain person but unfortunately, he's no longer here to defend himself. in my opinion, his time in the whistleblower program is not notable. the longer we go through the ethics commission, the more parent that the early days of the system is basically a
failure. you know you're doing the best you trying to do. realistically under the previous executive director and his number one assistant. everybody knows the record of what happened and what didn't happen. if he wasn't in physical pain, i'm sure there would have been a lot more people critical of his so-called action and lack of action. i think he got off lightly because of this physical condition. realistically when we talk about the enforcement action of the ethics commission as far as i understand it, the highlight of the whole history of the ethics commission was -- -- that is the highlight of the ethics
commission. obviously, we have a long way to go. i think in the future if you want to encourage people to file complaints and go through the system, you really have to encourage people to have faith in the system and realistically, in my opinion, they do not have faith in the system. begin this hearing lady that spoke basically said that. unfortunately, she feels that there isn't going to be any improvement. i will reassure her and people and will view this and listen to this that public corruption unit is alive and well in san francisco. thank you. >> chair chiu: any other public comment? item 7, discussion of exec
director's report. than >> thank you. i have a report that was included in the packet. i also have a brief overview of presentation i wanted to walk through to give context to our budget request. i will just make a quick plug on behalf of compliance team and city officials throughout the county and city of san francisco. it is coming close to april 2nd. which is the deadline for filing statements and ethics certification. it is april 2nd because of the cesar chavez holiday observance at the state level. we are still working with departments to get that message out to officials.
we are standing up and ready to assist with any filing questions that the department or individual filers may have. we look forward to providing that assistance and supporting a strong compliance of our disclosure requirements as public officials for the next couple of weeks. i also wanted to before get into the general budget background, take a few moments to do something i've been waiting quite a long time to do. that is to introduce our newest staff members who joined our office this past week and last couple of weeks. i wanted to note they are here in the audience with us. some of you may have met them. brian cox, you met earlier. who is our newest policy analyst. he's working with pat ford. we're delighted on he's on. he came to office from san francisco public defenders's office he has great background
in policy work as well as in the state louisiana. he is a graduate of yale with a b.a. in history and grad of tulane law school. we're delighted he's bringing his insights and energy and enthusiasm public policy to our work here at the commission. i wanted to welcome him. also, i wanted to introduce rachael gauge who is our new principal program manager. rachael is going to be working with them and another person i'll introduce you to shortly and she's going to be leading a number of efforts to really strengthen our outreach and compliance work across program areas. she most recently served as senior administrative analyst if
the human resources division. she's got a number of terrific skills and excitement that she brings to the table and we are delighted to have her with us. she has been with the city for five years previously did lot of work of company she founded and worked with. we're delighted she's joining us as well. john kim who is our new senior program administrator. john started on the 25th. he was with the fair political practices commission. he was a political reform consultant and since june 2014 where he was familiar with political reform act and worked
on lobbyist program, helped state agency develop conflict interest code. he's jumping in and hit the ground running. we're delighted to have him experience as well. i think you know that jeff zumwalt is our new senior investigative analyst. he's been with the commission for about year and a half i believe. he has been doing lots of work in a number of complex issue areas for investigation and enforce amount program. jeff also assumed responsibility senior investigative analyst on february 25th. he was a detective with the police department at virginia tech. he also had worked on major
public embezzlement investigations. amy lee, she couldn't be here. she had a parent teacher concentrate today. you know her as auditor with the commission. she went through the hiring process and is more new principle program manager for audits. we're excited having her help us develop that program to the next level. we have lot of work to do. lobbying audits as well as campaign audits. you'll be seeing more of amy as months progress. we're delighted that we have our new team members. there's so much to do. there's so much energy in the ram welcoming them. >> chair chiu: welcome. congratulations. hard earned and well deserved
promotions amy lee and mr. zumwalt. terrific. >> with that, the work doesn't stop as you know, february was the month we needed to submit our budget request to the mayor office. which we did. the letter we sent to mayor breed is in your packet. i wanted to highlight by way of brief background. some of the guiding principles that have been governing how we approach the budget and how we continue to approach thinking about the resources and the work we need to prioritize. when we think about the guiding principles, it's really as you heard from pat ford and brian report from the policy group earlier, lot of our focus is on evaluating proposing laws that will be strong, workable and practice and enforceable. this is something that is such a
foundational piece of work for us. affects all areas. we want to make sure laws are and understandable and people can comply and they are enforced. we continue to think about investing in the effectiveness of our program. this goes to the work ability issue. we also look to how we can leverage our resources as best possible. we know that dollars are tight in the city and there are lot of
needs. very focused on aligning our resources with the changing nature of our work. there's so much more that is not paper-based systems. we're focused on trying it make sure that we are efficient as we can with the resources that we have. that means aligning our staffing position to keep pace the work that's needed. one of the budget request you'll see addresses that topic to make sure that we have the level of the promote positions to support the knowledge skills and the ability that are increasingly needed from the jobs we're doing and to support staff development and staff retention. finally, the notion of adapting. we know that in order to be relevant and to make sure the laws work well and our programs have the reach and the impact that they need to, we have to be
thoughtful about leading practices. we have to be thoughtful about how we enhance transparency and accountability for our own work. jeff's report does that every month. just taking a quick overview of the budget request that we made for this past year. there are two possessions that you wanted tyou-- pieces that io highlight. one is the general fund request. that is request fund from the general fund. it total the roughly 8% of our current operating budget. it incorporated several items. position related changes that reclassify three existing positions that speak to enforcement, audits and
compliance assistance. to align them and the responsibilities and skills and knowledge with the duties of those jobs are seen. we're looking to reclassify those three positions to a higher level than they currently are. we detailed some material and supplies. in looks like a rounding error. it is something that's significant to us. we lot of our work invested in technology. we're looking at new software coming online for us. it helps us to do better compliance, guidance and maintain our work maintain our system. there are costs associated with that. we reflect that in our budget. we're asking for technical support from companies who's firms we're using to make sure we have technical support we need to adapt our tools we're
usininguse as we implement them. we are also relying on department human resources to provide us with violence services with our staff on boarding and other issues that we have not had the level of resources to address. we are working human resources department to retain those client services for coming here. that total request in our budget is about $350,000. i would say that same like a modest amount. it is something that reflects we believe we need to do in the work year ahead. it billeit buildings on knowingt filled critical seats. this is request we made for this year. we're looking forward to engaging with the mayor's budget team and the board discussions moving forward. separately, it's really also
important to highlight another project which is also part of request we've made. it is to the committee on information technology. it's a separate funding. it's not a general fund item. it is something that we're in process of responding to request for information that the committee made of us in response to the bid that we submitted. this would propose three-year limited term project that builds on the back of our pross we started three years ago. this is a project that we are really excited about and committed to make sure that the data that the is disclosed with our office o of all kinds, that all of the programs that we have can be converted broadly to digital filing. so that information can then be much more accessible to the
public. it builds on existing technology. there's a hunger in the city we found in conversations with other departments to establish improved filing process for things that help support the contributor band. there's a hunger for doing things in a much smarter, more efficient way. different departments and offices around the city all starting to use this technology. with the team that we have, we've been able to be helpful at the forefront. our technology folks have been visionary about how to do that work. that's a request we're going through the process that would be about 225 a year for three-year limited term. >> chair chiu: is the too manies common across the city? is this a stand alone unique solution that will be developed
by the ethics commission? >> it is something that would have applications throughout the city. for example when we're using dusign technology it eliminates lot of the paper filing. it gets to a database where public can access it. it becomes searchable. it eliminates unnecessary hand and time and inaccuracy. it frees up those people resources. certainly in our office. it frees up resources we used on much more value-added work to assist the public on meaningful questions. it will have a significant impact for us. we are selfishly pushing and
requesting it. we know it's critical. >> chair chiu: there's no city effort to solve this problem. this is our attempt to solve a common problem? >> yes. our processes rely on partners to implement. >> chair chiu: thank you. >> you earlier asked about some of the commissioner ambrose, about the anti-corruption and accountability ordinance and whether we were getting up to speed. this image, this slide status update on technology projects, shows a number of items that can be completed and a number of other ones other way. this is just to give you a sense and quick snapshot of lot of work that goes often unseen that
make these laws work. going back to the question, what process are coit would request would result in. this slide, it's an example of the way in which we're trying to streamline paper processing, make sure that the data gets to data s.f. where people can download and search. it's a process, a coit project that would help provide training to users to filers as well as staff around the city to understand and how to use the information and the process in a much better way. there will be an educational role that this project would provide to enhance public access
and understanding using this data. as tyler field said, when he and pat ford went out to meet with various organizations around the city, there's a real hunger for this kind of information. we want it learn from that. we want to learn more and really partner with organizations and places that use information like this so we can help expand the reach and breath and understanding of the role of money and politics. i provided abetted of highlightf highlights. there's major benefits to this project and impacts if the projects around funded. we're looking forward continuing conversation with the coit assessment team.
>> chair chiu: it's $225,000 per year f we're approved, i hope we will be. is that a guarantee for funding for the all three years? is this an annual submission? >> coit funding is a project term. it will be for a 3-year period. i wanted to highlight this because it wasn't something that was in the budget general fund side of the request. clearly that is critical to the work that we're doing which does have a reach, increase our efficiency to a large stint and focus on some of the things we haven't been able to. >> chair chiu: we can't under estimate impact providing public impact of this information.
if someone is looking for aggregated data it will be very painstaking and impossible task. the more work that we can do to make the information accessible is a top priority for the commission. >> the last couple of slides reason indication how we think about asking ourselves questions the jeff talked about. which is when we are improving our processes and thinking about where to apply our resources, where do we know to do that? how do we know where our places that -- we have pinch points. this slide is one that we have tracked since the commission started reporting. this is our slide about the ethics commission enforcement case code. just as we've reported over the
years about our case load each month, publicly, since april of 2016. we started that because we know it's really important to the public and to you all to be able to exercise oversight role of your staff also for us internally to be looking how is trajectory going. are going up or down? this is an example of how we've tracked this information and internally used it over time to try and redeploy where we need but also be transparent with reporting on these numbers each month. it walks through showing the dynamics that can affect how we do our work. it happens to be enforcement because we've been tracking the
numbers. we had fewer resources, how the case load shapes the time, the average age of cases. when you have fewer staff, things take longer to get to. when there are staffing changes or transitions in leadership in the organization, those are also periods of adjustment when we lose staff. those have an impact how we do our work.
this is just trying to give a sense of how we try to make sense of this information. we know that when there are elections, it has a peak effect on all of our operations. we've been trying to make sure that we're keeping our eye on the ball so that we can move our work to have the impact in the way we know the public expects and you expect and the way we know we need to be delivering it. i wanted to highlight that as one example how we look forward with the new staff that we now have to be able to do and expand this kind of work and this accountability much more broadly. overall the budget that we submitted this year, it feels like it's a modest one compared to the last couple of years where we did ask for more staffing resources. i feel confident with the tools that we are using, we have a lot we'll produce in the coming year
and move our operations and our impact of our programs to the next level. all of us are eager to get our feet in the midst and really work with that. with the tools we need. that was reflected in the budget. i'm happy to answer any questions that you might have about it. you look forward to engaging with further with the mayor's office and members the board. we appreciated the commission's vision on this effort over the last several years. we very much appreciated the mayor's office vision and support and board vision and support to keep these programs their best. we look forward it that this year. >> chair chiu: we support this budget submission. it's critical that we receive the funding. it's very modest ask less an 8%.
certainly the number of positions that have been open over the past year, indicates the mayor support for the work that we do. anything that we can do to help in that process and emphasize the importance of the resources to support the work, please do let us know. lastly, i think that these slides here with the information about elections and the resources that were provided, there's a clear correlation between lack of staff and an increase in time of investigation and preliminary reviews and number of cases. i think the slides do speak for
themselves. i do appreciate the work that went into this. it's very clear and it's helpful. any public comment on this agenda item? >> good afternoon. i like to thank the executive director for this report. it was a lot better than the previous ones from the previous executive director. it's kind of interesting in that the discussion of the enforcement charts, i would love to see what those same identify charts would show before 2016 from the beginning until when
this chart took effect. i would dearly love to see it charted out identically same way with the same criteria. i would guess that the data would be good for a laugh on saturday night live. realistically on scenario four that's in this report, if mayor's office tries anything to slow down the process of the ethics commission, i would like to suggest that mayor's office will fail. if they want to slow down the ethics commission, they will fail. i'll leave it at that. since three people, three so
called influential people are no longer here, that says something about the local process. i assure you gets away with it on a different level. thank you. >> chair chiu: any other public comment? agenda 8, discussion and possible action regardlessing status of complaints received or initiated by the ethics commission potential closed session. you want to go into closed session to discuss this item? we'll take public comment on this item. item 9, discussion and possible action on items perfum for futue meetings. public comment on this item?
>> good afternoon. one doesn't want to get too controversial. i think we need to make it a matter of record for this way in the future, when discussion comes up, it will be no statemented that we didn't know that it was coming up or we didn't have any idea that it would come up. number one, in the future, for everyone's benefit, we need to discuss the previous administration of the ethics commission. everybody knows who we're talking about. two people in particular. you need to look into it whether you want to do it or has someone else do it.
you need to do it in order to erase any doubt as to your future effectiveness. most people would not want to make the following suggestion but i tend not to shy away from it because i consider it a citizen's duty to bring it up for the record. i would like to know the achievements or lack of achievements of ed lee as it regards to his work on the whistleblower program. i would like to see a chart that shows all the favorable achievements and i would like a statement as to what wasn't done. let's put it this way, we all know that the commission has indirect influences and for the
record, i think it's important to say that you need to move on. there's no more influence from him any longer. you need to run the ethics commission in the proper way. the proper way means, no more stalling. in fact, the best way putting it that everybody understands including back east. the three famous words, obstruction of justice. obstruction of justice can mean lot of things to a lot of people. believe me, there are plenty of prosecutors that want to make a name for themselves by marching into san francisco and claim, i cleaned up this town. >> chair chiu: thank you.
>> happy anniversary san francisco government t.v. happy anniversary to you. happy anniversary san francisco government t.v. anniversary, anniversary, happy 25th anniversary to you. [♪] >> chair fewer: the meeting will come to order. this is march 15, 2019 meeting of the local agency formation commission. i am sandra fewer, chairman of the commission, and i am joined
by my fellow commissioners. the clerk of the commission is cynthia somera. colleagues, can we have a motion to excuse commissioner gordon mar today? yes. moved by commissioner ronen, seconded by commissioner pollock. we can take this without objection. [gavel]. >> chair fewer: thank you very much. madam clar madam clerk, do you have any announcements. >> clerk: yes. [agenda item read]. >> chair fewer: thank you. madam clerk, can you please call item number two. [agenda item read]. >> chair fewer: do any of the commissioners have any changes to the minutes from the february 22 meeting? seeing no changes, i will open this up for public comment.
are there any members of the public who wish to comment on item 2? seeing none, public comment is now closed. is there a motion to approve the minutes? moved by commissioner pollock, seconded by commissioner ronen. motion it approved. [gavel]. >> chair fewer: madam clerk, can you please call item three. [agenda item read]. >> good morning, commissioners. michael hyams, director of the cleanpowersf program for the public utilities commission. i have a short update for you as you can tell from the
slides. i'm happy to answer any questions you have, and i know we have special guests here from the department of the environment, and i know there's be some discussion around that presentation. i do thank you for the slides. just want to try to make a habit of providing you all with an update on our enrolment activities. and i think this is almost identical to the last meeting with the one exception, we had a slight uptick in our opt-out rate. it was 3.3%. i think last time we presented, it was 3.28%, so there was a little bit of a rounding. we also get upgrades, supergreenup grades, and i have some updates on that. i wanted to comment we are working really hard at the p.u.c. to prepare to upgrade
more than 250,000 san francisco accounts cupping up in april. i had noticed the -- announced at the last meeting the noticing that had begun. along with the noticing, we're seeing an uptick in activity with respect to customer calls, to our call center. we had almost 4,000 visits to our cleanpowersf website last week. that's up from 1200 the week before, so pretty dramatic. and on the call center side, call volume went up to 1200 calls last week, up from 240 the week before. so that's definitely the impact of the noticing. san franciscans are receiving the notices, they're taking a look at them, they have questions. so that's all very good.
and i think as tyler gamble, communications director of the sfpuc last meeting detailed, we -- cleanpowersf is going to be pretty visible in the city in the next couple of months. starting next week, you're going to start seeing cleanpowersf ads on muni. and this is -- one of the ads, you'll see something looking like this wrapped around the muni buses, trying to be light about what's going on, creative, hopefully get people's attention. and we've been -- we've been very active at various events. green family night, eco fair, arbor night, sunday streets.
we're trying to be as visible at possible. i mentioned the supergreen earlier. we had, in one week, about a 7% increase in our supergreen enrollment. i think the visibility is really having an effect. and i wanted to wrap up by -- i understand commissioner mar isn't here today, but he did ask a question at the last meeting about the pcia, and i committed to getting back. i believe his question was how much do san franciscans pay on the pcia? so i think during that meeting, the pcia represents commitments that pg&e made to serve san franciscans prior to the formation of our c.c.a. program, those costs are
embedded in pg&e's normal rates, so every customer pays the costs that includes the pcia. when a customer moves into a ccia program, the pcia becomes a cost of the program, continuing to show up in the pcia. so enrolled ccia customers this year will be contributing approximately $80 million a year in funds just through the pcia collections. to put that sort of into scale, into picture, we're projecting cleanpowersf generation revenues of about 160, $170 million. so that's a pretty big chunk. that's about a third of the total generation costs. and then citywide, it's about 120 million total. that includes some of the
largest accounts we haven't yet enrolled in cleanpowersf. i'm going to stop there. if there's any questions, i'll entertain them, otherwise, i'll turn it over to our next presenter. >> chair fewer: commissioner pollock. >> commissioner pollock: thank you. i appreciate so much to see that the advertising campaign will begin. i know that the last advertising that we saw was really about the supergreen opt in? and i hate to say i wasn't really a fan of the super hero part, but i just felt like it didn't communicate what people were doing. do you have some early information about what the opt-in advertising will look like? >> well, we moved away from the supergreen -- i mean, i'm
sorry, the super hero green. so the messaging continues to be taking action about climate change, but it doesn't have that, i don't know, kihschy super hero element to it. i guess what we did during the business enrollment last year, we moved to sort of a more businesslike approach. maybe a little less fun, but trying to really drive the message around, you know, what san franciscans can go to minimize their greenhouse gas footprint and address climate change, and this being one of the best and easiest ways san franciscans can take action. >> i think that's great. climate -- i mean, climate change is real, and it's
serious, and i think giving people an actionable approach to that is really helpful, so if you. if, on your next visit or the next time that you present any sort of marketing materials, would you give us a heads up and show us some of that? >> absolutely. >> commissioner pollock: okay. great. thank you so much. >> chair fewer: okay. thank you. commissioner ronen? >> supervisor ronen: thank you. i just noticed we had a classroom join us in the chambers, and i was wondering if you could explain what cleanpowersf is and why it's so important to our city. sure. hello, and welcome. so my name's mike, and i manage a program for the city called cleanpowersf. cleanpowersf is a new initiative where the city is attempting to transform our
energy supply from polluting sources of energy to clean sources of energy, including things like wind power and solar power. so we're trying to make the electricity that we all rely on every day when we turn the lights on, come from solar panels, the sun, the wind, and other forms of clean energy. i think we're doing a great job, but we need your help. we need your help to stay in the program and encourage our families to opt into our 100% renewable energy product. >> chair fewer: sure. that's a good plug. [applause] >> chair fewer: thank you. commissioners, any other questions or comments for mr. hyams? seeing none, let's open this up
for public comment. are there any members of the public wishing to comment? welcome, mr. brooks. >> hello. eric brooks, san francisco clean energy. it's important that pg&e and the other utilities know that, for example, in april, we're going to put hundreds of thousands of people more in the program. pg&e and the other utilities know that if they buy long-term contracts that are overly expensive, they don't have to worry about that, and they can have a higher pcia, a higher exit. that they can prepurchase contracts that are too expensive to make it harder for these little community choice programs to compete with them
and that is because of the pcia. i've already mentioned ab-56. there's another one. sb-350, and it's senator hertzberger again and what he tried to do with sb-357, which the lafco rejected last year. that one should be on your radar, too. and then hopefully, next month, i think next month is going to be a key month for the lafco to take positions on bills, and i'll send the bills to brian so that they'll get a tip off on what they're facing in this legislative session. thanks. >> chair fewer: thank you, mr. brooks. any other member of the public
wishing to comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. [gavel]. >> chair fewer: there is no action for the commission to take, so madam clerk, will you please call item number four. [agenda item read]. >> chair fewer: thank you. we have san francisco environment director here to present, debbie raphael. miss raphael? >> thank you, commissioners. it's an honor to be here at lafco. it's been many years since i've been at lafco, and i'm excited to give you a bit of a context on energy efficiency, some interesting new graphs and slides that we've either been creating or discovered and then talk about the changing landscape and where we find ourselves today because it's a fairly unique setting. so first in terms of context, this is what we were talking about in terms of climate
change. the city has bold, aggressive goals to do their part as a large emitter. we have a goal of setting our baseline of 1970 levels. it's 2019, it's a great question, how are we doing? so the great news is we're ahead of schedule. so in 2016 -- and we'll be publishing the 2017 numbers sortly -- we -- shortly -- we had actually reduced our emissions 30% below 1990 levels. that is a classic case of decoupling that you can have environment and economy. they can go hand in hand. all right. then, the next question, i know what we're do