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tv   Government Access Programming  SFGTV  April 18, 2019 9:00am-10:01am PDT

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on page 32, you could have probably until column line maybe -- i think you could have at least one, maybe two stories, that came up to column line four that were sort of back here, and still be sort of in conformance with the standards. you really would not see that at all from the street. i think you could get more in the full preservation alternative by have another two stories that were really set back further again. maybe they're set back where you've got the first setback and the second setback, and it would be another setback. so it would be about 60 feet back from the front or something. >> chairman: commissioner? >> i must say, i am taken with the whole package, without any alternatives. i know what you're saying, commissioner wolfrin, about this is not
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necessarily a steller example of this particular style of architecture. however, one of the things i've been impressed with is how much restoration and focus has been gone on throughout san francisco, particularly the buildings on the waterfront, the ferry building, down pier 70 -- i've spent a lot of time in those buildings, featuring the interior, the trusses, the interior construction. and it's fascinating to see how all of that has been going on. so i am in favor with keeping as much of the character-defining features in that regard, the wood truss wood system. i can see that the full preservation does not retain that, and i can see why, but i just wanted to comment that i think that
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is a particularly strong feature that we're talking about here. so, i mean, i'm going along with what you're -- what the comments have been thus far, as far as emphasis of the full preservation alternative, and maybe all we need is one. i would be interested in knowing -- i see there is no preservation alternative that does not have retail at the bottom. and it would be interesting to me to see the project without retail on the bottom and dedicate a lobby or whatever -- i can't remember how much space was allocated for that -- i know it's in our packet -- to an interpretive scale model, some kind of an interpretive model of what
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the building looked like before it is gone, the interior. i would be interested in that. do you have any comments on that, about no retail on the bottom, what impact that would be? with dedicating the space to interpretive... >> i'm seeing retail. >> chairman: she is suggesting no retail. >> no retail. >> no retail at all? i'm sorry, i misunderstood. >> no retail. >> it could be a community-serving function. >> that was my thought, that the space would be dedicated to public interpretation. there would be enough glass access -- public access to the sidewalk into the interior to see what the building might have looked like in its time. >> chairman: commissioner johns.
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>> thank you. commissioner black made some comments which reminded me that i had forgotten to say one or two things. so i'll say them now. the reason that i like alternative one is because it's important to me that insofar as we can, we preserve enough of the building to give someone a legitimate feel for what might have been seen in 1926 or 1930, during the time when this garage was built. now, it is true -- i do agree with commissioner wolfrin, that if you're going to pick great examples of design, this probably wouldn't be chosen. on the other hand, it does
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reflect what the street looked like and what people did choose to build at that time. because i'm interested in, insofar as possible, preserving the look and feel of the street, i'm interested -- i think that preservation alternative one is good. >> chairman: great. >> i don't have any particular feeling about whether the trusses are so important that they out to be preserved because they were never really seen by the public. >> chairman: okay. >> may i make a few comments? >> chairman: sure. >> okay. so specific to some of the questions, it's a curious question, can that thing be increased and still meet the standards? and my understanding is how we interpret standard
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nine, as far as massing and scale, is something we can actually decide locally. i think having justin on this project is really appropriate because we're exploring this vertical addition idea around buildings that that could potentially actually accommodate a vertical addition. there is a desire to maintain the facades. we have at least two, i think, projects: one close to the hub, where we kept the facade, and we had them bring the front face closest to market, instead of setting it back, because in that location the street facade along market was really important. i personally think that both alternative -- preservation alternative one and preservation alternative two do provide a good contrast and allows
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us to understand what the impact would be. >> you mean partial -- >> partial, yes. the two partial preservation alternatives. so i think it wasn't time wasted. i think it is a good study. i think this building can accommodate an addition that is flush with the front of the building, better than than other projects that we've seen. on the projects that have the auto row -- the auto shops, the actual space of that ground floor is a little more usable than in a parking garage. so whether we maintain or keep some of the portion of the interior space, if we can, and we can turn it into community room or retail space, then, yeah, that would be a great way to address some of it. but i don't feel that we need to.
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and last, i would just say that the reason the -- we keep the urban feel of the block -- it's why we're studying the existing building. unfortunately, i don't think that the new design actually speaks to any of the urban fabric. it is a nice design. i'm not criticizing, and i'm certainly not opposed to a more modern, contemporary design, but i think on the corner lines, which is really tall or the original corner line, i think that could have anchored the building a little more in the district. >> i didn't know if the preservation alternative could be a little taller,
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and you would get 38 units instead of 30 -- >> i think if you set it back that far, you could go even taller. >> okay. that would need view-line studies. and there was also a question about should the partial preservation alternatives contain a portion of the interior space, and i was curious, going to commissioner hyland's question about the potential guidelines -- what did we say in those guidelines? >> chairman: is there a specific question? >> in the draft, the facade refebruary retention guidelines, isn't there a portion of the interior -- >> it talks about retaining some sense of the volume so there is a meaningful transition to the new construction. >> i think you would do that in the first partial one -- the second one is really a stick-on facade. it is really not relevant. >> i think that's the point, if the interior
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space behind the retained facade was there, it would give the meaning behind the facade -- what made it important to begin with. >> and that's why i was thinking about having that somewhat available to the public. >> how would that work with this building? because you go into it, and what would you see? presumably, that's the first floor of the garage. you wouldn't see the trusses or anything -- >> that's right. >> and that's not too inspiring. >> and the apartments are double-height apartments anyway, so they're being kind of kept somewhat intact. in the full one -- in the full, they're kept as double height. >> so that's more successful, as far as from a design perspective. commissioner black? >> i thought it would be worth for the commissioners to look at page six, in the 11 by 17 packet, on the top right,
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there is a really nice parking garage around the corner -- it is actually a little more articulated. not gothic, but more renaissance survival. right around the corner to this parking garage. >> okay. >> it looks like the windows are actually intact in that one, so it has more integrity. >> oh, yes. >> chairman: commissioner black. >> i like your idea on the full preservation alternative. go up as high as they can. >> as long as you set back -- >> so i'm definitely in support of that alternative. but i really am also in support of alternative two. i know it is complicated to figure out what to do in that first 20 feet. but it allows them to get thertheir unite count. unit cou.
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i wouldn't want to restrict the use of that first 20 feet to just community space only because i want the project to be as viable as possible. you know, the cost of doing a development like this, especially when you've got such a high percentage of inclusionary units -- i didn't find the hyphenated -- i didn't share some of the members' feelings that the alternative -- sorry -- i prefer alternative one, not alternative two. >> the partial. >> yes. the partial -- the full and the partial -- i'm sorry -- and alternative two, the hyphenated version, i don't think it works as well visually. >> yeah. >> and since they both attain -- one and two both attain the same number of units essentially -- i
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recognize the value of the rear-yard setback, but in terms of a loss to the street scape -- >> i'd like to address the question of why we included partial preservation two. this shows the adjacent buildings, which have significant light wells. and the massing of the building as proposed, and as in partial alternative two, has this configuration where there are large light wells joining the light wells of the adjacent buildings, plus you have a code compliant rear yard which allows full windows on the back facade, and full light on the back facade. if nou push the whole building back 20 feet, you lose those characteristics. the light wells get all mashed together and don't match, and the rear yard goes down to 16 feet.
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and we'd have to get a variance from the zoning district. partial preservation alternative two, which ceeches thikeeps this massing, s better. >> all three, the full preservation, maybe expanding it to include some units -- partial preservation alternatives one and two are in line. i'm not in love with this facade to say this is something that should be kept, but i do think it is possible. i think the current, new, proposed design needs to speak a little more to the buildings adjacent to it. >> i had a comments. i wonder if in partial alternative one you have to lose some units, but i think it is important to
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address the light and air unit. so i think you tight have to sculpt out the one -- there are two one-beds, and maybe it becomes a two-bed, and it loses a corner or some things, but i think it would be better if it was a realistic -- to address that issue. >> chairman: right. all right. commissioner john? >> i wanted to say that the explanation about two -- partial alternative two -- was helpful, and getting a better understanding of why that was included. i stillin still think the setbas are important, but i see why we need to compare, so that's fine. i also agree with going up as high as possible. increasing the massing would be okay with me. >> chairman: commissioner black. >> i wanted to second the vote on making whatever
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modifications to address the light wells, which is important. i would also suggest increasing the height of the hyphen. and i know that is complicated, but in order to retain alternative two, i think there needs to be a more pronounced fiv hyphen between the two structures, if that gets pursued. in terms of all of that, i think the e.i. rr. is adequate. >> this is coming back to us again, right? >> no, no -- this will come back to the full h.p.c., after publishing the draft. >> there are the alter alternatives right now, and when they finish that, you'll get a 700 page -- >> and when does the planning commission see this? >> after the draft -- >> we're all learning what
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this new process is, too. >> no need to go into my next version -- >> this is for guidance for the project team. >> okay. good job. >> if i could kind of summarize the general comments, it is the opinion this isn't the greatest resource in the world, there are better sources of gothic design, and unionl generally the h.p.c. would push for to see the full alternatives, the increase in height. and the partial preservation alternative one would probably need to see some sculpting to address the sort of conflicting light wells, and the partial preservation alternative two, it seems like there is kind of a mixed reaction to it, whether or not it is actually successful as a preservation alternative and might need some
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tweaking, if not being removed entirely. >> chairman: i think that's fair. that's accurate. >> if i may, i want to go down as saying i think this is actually a nice example of the garage. you know, some really charming elements, like the little balcony and that. so i don't think -- i don't want the message to be that this isn't a valuable architectural resource. >> chairman: understood. >> it is a contributor to the district. you can say that. we can all agree with that. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> chairman: commissioners, if there is nothing further, we can move on to number seven. 610 gary boulevard. this is an informational presentation. >> good afternoon, commissioners, michelle taylor, planning department staff.
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the item before you today is a proposal by partner city agencies, recreation and parks department, and public works, to rehabilitator tatrehabilitate te plaza. the subject project is on the landmark designation work program. following initiation of the designation in june 2017, the h.p.c. indictmented h.p.c.adopted a reo recommend designation to the board of supervisors. at the request of the japan town taskforce, the designation is currently on hold at the clerk of the board to give the japan town time to consider rehabilitation and redesign of the peace plaza. it is not an article 10 resource. however, the subject scientist its characteristics are considered an eligible
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historic resource for the purposes of the california environmental quality act. therefore staff is currently reviewing the rehabilitation design to ensure it conforms to the secretary of the interior standards. although your review is not required for completion for the ca the cat catigorical view. any comments from this commission will be taken into consideration by the design teams. if designation of the property moves forward in the future, then lan landmark designation report and ord noons will bordinance will be ud as necessary. it was designed by yoshiro gamagoochi in 1968. it has served as vocal points for an array of events, including the
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cherry blossom festival. considerable alterations to the plaza over the years have resulted in diminished integrity of the site. even so, staff has determined that the peace plaza retain several general features that allow it to be understood as an open space and setting for the peace pagota. the proposed rehabilitation of the receivesly altered plaza is in conformance of the secretary of the historic resources. the design of the proposed project would be of its own time, but would utilize materials from the surrounding development. it retains the general designing features of the site, including cherry blossom trees, and the retention of flag poalsz flag pn the garr gary street.
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these features includes an interpretive representation of the internal flame at the lower plaza, a new water feature, and larger stones in the landscape. furthermore, the proposed project will not alter the peace pag negotiato get pagota. in conclusion, staff finds the proposed project bears a harmonious relationship to the surrounding setting. this concludes my presentation. our partners will now present an overview of the project, and i'll be available to answer any questions. thank you. >> good afternoon, commissioners, my name is mike degregoio, and i'm a
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project manager at the san francisco recreation and parks department. i would like to walk you through the design, and talk a little about the community outreach we have done for this project. and i would like to ask if two community members can come up as part of my presentation afterwards and say a few words. to start out, i'd like to say that although this is rec park property, we really worked hand-in-hand with japan town task forces to the greater community on this project. the project came about because it has been leaking to the garage below for the better part of its 50 years. and when it was renovated in about the year 2000, that issue was exacerbated. so that coupled with the sentiment from the community that the plaza could use a general update to better serve their needs is really how this project came about through a strong community voice. and so the design team
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with san francisco public works, and in keeping with japan town's traditions, we also brought on a cultural design consultant from r.r.j.a., and they helped consult with the community and back to us. we started out with this mission statement, which is -- i should say we started out in june 2018 on this project. and this mission statement is actually shared through many various documents being created for japan town over the years. it is similar to the bear neighborhood's plan, in that there are these commonalities and that was intentional, and we are building on those plans. just to briefly touch on some of the engagement, this is really critical to what we're calling the vision plan. so it was the concept design development, but also a robust community outreach. and what that resulted in
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is dozens of focus groups and community meetings. over 700 responses to either intercept surveys or digital surveys, and two design shurets, where we brought design consultants in and a design team to work through some different design issues, and three community meetings which were kind of the milestones as we went through the design. so in the first community meeting, we really focused on doing our homework and presenting that back to the community. what that meant was inventory and analysis, and understanding the historic nature of the site, it's position in the city, and the community, and even internationally. and then these are excerpts, but you can see we also looked at what are these cultural and historic features on this site, and starting to inventory them and talk to people about them. we took a lot of that feedback that we've heard from the first meeting in
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the outreach and developed three initial design concepts, all pretty much maintaining similar attributes to one another, but they do take on, as you see, a very different look and feel. the wave, if we had to pick -- people picked the wave as their favorite. but we also had a number of questions asking what elements of each was most successful. so it wasn't a wholesale chose. we used that idea of the wave as a base to move forward. but we also recognize these other positive attributes that we would like to integrate as the design moved forward. in the creation of the single design concept, five of these goals was set out. and they -- this elaborates on them a bit more. generally it is to connect at the post-through entrance, through to the cannon street mall. [please stand by]
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>> and so here's the concept plan which kind of gives you the overall layout of the site. we see the site in these three main areas, the post street terrace, which connected that to third street man, the 3 agoda terrace, which is the upper terrace where the pagoda is today, and the geary street
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edge. at the post street edge, as you come in through the central entry, you're flanked on either side with much more planting which we heard was a really big desire from the community, which spaces where you can have moveable tables and chairs on one side, and an area for the cultural monument for the other, which has been relocated to where it is today on the sidewalk. you can see the entry today, it's very exposed. and also, there's a series of entry. we'd like to see one entry that didn't overpower the piece pagoda. so through looking at many o options, we found that this was a successful way to do that, to create a guiding entry. you can see the two separate sides as you go through the area of the moveable tables and
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chairs. this is just illustrating the different components of that upper and lower plaza and also to show the general level of the plaza as they are today have been maintained, so we're keeping with that. and looking underneath the grove of cherry trees, illustrating the idea of flexibility on the day-to-day, this could be cafe bistro tables, and perhaps on the weekend, these could be moved out for areas for informal
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exercise. next, we really wanted to investigate the history of water on the site, but we understand some of the constraints of water over a garage, so we found a dissolution, what we are calling the water mirror is a blend of the facilities of the site. you can see how it's been done in other places throughout the world. it can be drained quickly for events. it's really just a thin skim of water, but it has a very strong presence, and you can see from sitting under that pagoda terrace, the reflective quality it would give to the site, and another view looking to the pagoda, and you can see that being reflected in the water feature. as we move towards night, we start to think about how we can
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represent the eternal flame, which was at one time a literal flame. it's now been relegated to a tiny flame in a glass block in one of the walls. what we're proposing is a small embedded flickering lights that at night could have a really nice overlay with the reflection of the pagoda and transform that space. as we move down toward the geary boulevard entry, you see it as it is today. it is a bit ominous along the bl boulevard, but it's a great opportunity to open up that stairway. we have that butterfly stair gives a larger opening, and we
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thought art would be appropriate on that wall, and then, the parapet, thinking about it in a little bit different way, perhaps a screen on that to give it some cultural tie. this starts to become really more of a welcoming wall as opposed to what it is today. and we start to think about materiality, though we're still in concept phase. this site will have predominantly concrete paving. we really think the warm tone is important. if you've been there today. it doesn't feel warm, so any paving that we introduce, we do want to think about in this way? but in the lower plaza, we may have an opportunity to do some interesting paving expressions, so this could come through with stone paving or precast concrete. thinking about the wood terrace and other wood elements is really important. and then finally, all the walls
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throughout the site that could be precast concrete or stone. this is a really important graphic to show that when there's a proposed design, the circular element still remains. here's some different examples of how event layouts could happen. so we worked with the community on actually checking with them how they staged event and how they could do that. on the left is the plaza today for cherry blossom, and on the right is how the cherry blossom could occur in the proposed design. with that, i would like two of the community members to come up and say a few words, but i would like to leave you with this, thinking about the reflective quality of the site and the pagoda, and with that,
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i'd like to hand it over to sandy and alex. thank you. >> good morning, commissioners. my name is alice, and i'm a long time resident of japantown, also 30 years, but i am also very involved with the japantown task force. i'm also on the land use committee, and i'm currently on the peace plaza committee, as well. and i just wanted to come to -- you know, thank you for listening to our presentation. i know you're not going to be voting on anything, but i wanted to kind of remind you that this place that i live and many people visit is a place of history. it's a place where people will come to not only shop and eat there and dine there and visit but most importantly to feel the heart of the community, you
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know, the pagoda and the peace plaza is the heartbeat of our community. this is where a lot of the festivals are presented. we have interfaith festivals with the clergy. when things are happening in our world, we join together there. this is also a place where people gather, they meet people, and they sit and they talk and they discuss. it's called the peace plaza because we hope when people come to our peace plaza, they feel peaceful, but they remember the history of our people and our culture. i come here today to number one thank the rec and park for putting together such a great way that the community can work together on giving feedback. i've been involved in all the different areas of outreach that we've done to the
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community, which is very important. we've had focus groups to not only the youth to get their input, but also the seniors, which is a huge community living within japantown. i've been to the design cherette, which rec and park got together with the department of public works and our architects, and we all sat down at the table and discussed various issues and areas. and the most important was the community outreach meetings. we've had three of them, and they've been wonderfully received and also attended, which to us is really important to get the input of our community. and also, there are many visuals around the room, and there were areas where people could write notes, ask questions. our third one was just completed, and that's when we broke up into different groups
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and the different areas that michael just mentioned. you know, the plaza itself, and the other areas, the entrances and everything, we broke up into different groups, and then, we were able to discuss them in detail and get more ideas and output-input on that. so this is not a -- you know, approved yet design, it's a design concept, so we wanted to share that with you today. there's going to be wonderful trees there, the calligraphy. the eternal flame and the water feature is still in discussion. we understand that water and the eternal flame is really important concept in our culture, so in some way, we want to have that included, so we're still in discussion about that. but today, i just wanted to thank you for listening to the
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informational segment of this and to get your feedback on this, your thoughts. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> good afternoon, commissioners. my name is sandy morey, and i am representing the japantown task force board of directors. i am also here with richard hashimoto, director of the japantown merchants association. when he and his staff produced all these different ways of
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communicating, whether they be focus groups or surveys, we had many different representations from all parts of the communities. we've had representations from nonprofits, residents who live in the area, churches, seniors, all the different business owners, japanese speaking people who had translated issues given to them, and youth. we really reached out to the youth because that's our future. part of this whole process, we also had very positively design advisors from the architectural ho rhaa. the importance of perspective is very important to us in the community, and with this whole peace plaza renovation, we
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wanted this whole feeling of openness, and that's why a lot of people supported the idea of whole greenery, because we see a lot of concrete there now, and concrete is very cold. so we wanted to try to promote a little bit more warmth and feeling of being invited. the whole issue of a large permanent stage, that was also included, and cherry trees, and of course the boulders and the calligraphy that's been included in there, too. so we really wanted to give you an update of just what we've been dealing with and what we've been discussing, and we really welcome your comments and any ideas that you may have, too. thank you. >> great. thank you.
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>> good afternoon, cochairs, richard hashimoto, o. i've been at the peace plaza pretty much my entire life. i started there at the japantown garage in 1977, right out of high school, so i've been through a lot of the problems, especially with the water. for the record, i'm just about the only opposition for any type of water feature because i lived through all the leaks at the plaza. i want to commend the recreation and park department. during the past two renovations of the plaza, community had no input, no input at all. the last time was essentially forced upon us to accept, and you see there, we're not proud
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of it at all. you've probably seen the concrete fixtures. there's nothing cultural about that at all in my aspect, so i'm very pleased that the recreation and park department, public works, are willing to work with us in the community. it's purely community driven, and this is something that we would really like to see happen here, so thank you. >> great. thank you. so pretty much had public comment. >> still open it up for public comment. >> are there any member of the public that wish to speak to this item? seeing none, hearing none, close public comment. bring it back to the commission. >> commissioners? >> commissioner johnck?
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>> my first question is what's the process from here? this is such an exciting happening that -- for us to hear about, and i've had several members of the city speak to me about what are you hearing about peace plaza, so it's very exciting to see this. i want to know what's the schedule for bringing something back? >> sure. i can speak only to planning review, so we will conclude our ceqa review, and then, i think rec and parks -- >> once ceqa review is complete, we can bring this back to park commission for concept design and approval. we're currently assessing how we can currently move forward with the next phases of design. the project is currently unfunded for construction, so we are awaiting on how we can figure that out. but -- but seeing if, in the
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meantime, we can still progress the design to a certain point, so we're still assessing that. thank you. >> so it will be some months or what? >> we hope to move through design without much of a lag, but we do need to bring it to rec-park commission before we would start any future phases, so we're just waiting for the timing of ceqa and when we can get it on our park agenda, and then move from there. >> but you think this year? >> on rec-park commission for sure. >> okay. i was very since attuned to doug nelson's very nice letter that he wrote to us. doug and i have been collaborating on a cultural landscape program that we have been teaching at u.c. berkeley extension. i think it's excellent that he's been part of the process
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to bring in both the historic and cultural aspects of the design. nature, i think is key and would be a wonderful aspiration to the project. that would be my chief point at this point in time. thank you. >> thank you. commissioner matsuda? >> yes, thank you. i just wanted to ask a couple of questions about procedure. what happens to our nomination? >> the nomination is currently on hold. >> mm-hmm. >> if nomination is to move forward, we would update the designation report and the ordinance to reflect the changed setting. >> changed setting to the plaza. >> right. >> okay. >> so commissioners, just to follow up on that, it would come back here. we'd have to pull it from the clerk, you'd have to re-review it and revise the ordinance
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with the city attorney's office, and naturally, the japantown community would be informed of this and we'd likely go back to the japantown community to discuss those changes. >> i guess i have some discussions for rec and park. when you were having the cherettes, was there any talk about having a dry water feature? a dry water feature is very typical in a lot of japanese landscape, and it would maybe resolve the real water issue. >> yeah. we -- i think alice articulated it well that we want to see the presence of water here, whether physical or not, and so -- we have assessed other ways that we can represent water. >> was that considered -- a dry water feature considered? >> oh, yeah. >> and i think the concept is
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very nice, but did anybody consider having the installation of maple trees on one side and cherry blossom trees on the other? cherry trees are beautiful, but they only last two weeks, and maple trees have leaves, and they're very beautiful in our fall here in san francisco. maple is also a very important japanese feature. >> yes. maples were considered, ginkos, some emblematic species, but specifically, maples were considered in addition to cherries, evergreens, and ginkos. >> and just one last question, i see that the proposed is
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recommending the relocation of the three sided bar relief feature that is right in front on post street. and next on that is a rock, and on that rock is a description of why that was made. that was made to talk about specifically the three remaining japantown. and that was made because after people who are no longer of japanese american descent are around, that that rock and that bas relief will tell the story of the japanese community is, so i want to make sure that that accompanies wherever the structure goes. >> they should be seen as one, sure. >> yes. >> commissioner wolfram? >> i want to say, i want to thank you for your very well done presentation. the renderings, and the plans
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are really helpful in helping us understand the process. i'm a big fan of the water, actually, the real water. i think if this garage roof can withstand the rain, which it has to, it can withstand some water. >> water always causes worry, though. >> it does, but it rains here six months of the year. >> they've been strapped with this water leakage issue for so long. >> but going back to the original design, there was a lot of water in the original design, and i like the idea of bringing it back. i think this is a really elegant way of bringing it back. i think there are a lot of great ideas here, and i look forward to seeing it continue. >> thank you. anyone else? so i have a couple comments. one is i'm happy to see such a robust community engagement
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process. it's great to see all the community members coming out and participating in the evolution of this design. it's really important and useful. i did wonder if there was, some some of the early schemes, any scheme that kind of represented what the original design was, and if -- how that could evolve or be incorporated into any of the other schemes that you explored? >> sure. the one that probably most closely resembled that scheme was the frame. it was the most orthagonal, and people didn't like the frame because it reminded them of what was there today, not historically. we thought it was a really nice
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architectural feature to ground it, but mostly everyone didn't like it because it cut the view of the pagoda, and that, we learned, is a very significant view for them. so the frame is probably the one that harkened back to the original design most but was least liked by the community today. >> commissioner wolfram? thank you. i was going to say, i think the idea in the original design, there was some sense of mystery. you didn't see it all at once. like now, it's just there, you see the whole pagoda at once. there's no sense of the unfolding of the design, and i think with that walkway, there is a sense of passage. i like that. i can see when you look at this concept of the frame, it does have this elements of the design unfold, and it's not seen all at once.
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>> so i think when this does come back to us as an update on the landmark designation, one of the things that we're going to be evaluating is the last two design iterations really impacted the plaza, and the last two listed those remaining features that are still important, and so we'll be evaluating about whether it's lost its landmark designation. it does seem to be retaining all of those elements that have been identified as important. i do think the meaning and the memory of the original design had a significance. and just because it had been lost in the 2000 renovation and the one prior to that, i think it could still be brought forward.
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so i think how it gets implemented, i can see either way. i think the terrace -- the trellice structure could be obstructing the view or it could be some kind of mystery. i'll leave that up to the community, but i think it's good to see a nice design as opposed to what's there. >> i think we all concur with that. >> right. >> you know, maybe had the evolution been this thoughtful, we'd still have some of the original design intent and still a beloved space. anything else? commissioner johnck? >> mr. chair, i do want to say one other things, too, because mr. nelson is a colleague of mine, but i do appreciate his
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intellect and his sensitivity to design. he is trying to come up with -- with working with the community, both the retention -- the trajectory of bringing back the revitalization of the design with the new design, and there is an attempt to really try to do that so when we come to keep the landmark designation going, we can do that. >> some of the more successful projects that i've seen and been involved with, when you see something contemperary and new, you can still see the original design. okay. is that it? okay. adjourned.
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