tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX November 21, 2010 9:00am-10:00am EST
>> chris: i'm chris wallace and this is "fox news sunday." foreign policy on the front burner. from the war in afghanistan to the push for a new arms treaty with russia to bringing terror suspects to justice we'll discuss the president's diplomatic challenges with secretary of state hillary clinton. the republican governor with more power than ever. we will sit down with texas governor rick perry to talk about an obama aagain that and what role it will play in the 2012 presidential race. with the holiday travel season about to start, airport security gets up close and personal. we'll ask our sunday panel if
these tsa procedures go too far. and your power player of the week that now creates works of art you can eat. all right now on "fox news sunday." >> chris: hello again from fox news in washington. president obama and other world leaders agreed on an exit strategy in afghanistan turning over security to the afghans by 2014. while nato does not expect foreign combat forces to keep fighting the taliban after that u.s. officials said they will decide at the time. earlier, we spoke with secretary of state hillary clinton from the nato summit in lisbon. sect remembesecretary clinton,e right back to "fox news sunday." >> thank you so much. good to talk could you. >> chris: nato agreed to 2014 responsibilityr mont to the
to the afghans. does that mean that the u.s. will have combat troops there for the next four years and possibly beyond? >> chris, i think what happened today was a real vote of confidence in the strategy being pursued by the nato coalition. we are following the lead of president karzai and the africans who have set 2014 as the year during which security will be transitioned to the afghans. there was discussion today and an agreement by the nato and isap partners that there will be a continuing effort to train and equip and support the afghans. but the point of the declaration by the nato isap partners is that the transition to lead afghan security will occur during 2014. >> chris: that means u.s. combat troops will be there for four more years and as i understand it, possibly beyond.
>> i don't know quite what you mean by that. because, for example if you are going to continue in a supportive role whether it is american troops or one of our other contributing nations, you are not there for the primary duty of security or combat. you are there to support the afghans. but toes that mean you are going to defend yourself, does that mean you will come to the aid of one of our afghan colleagues in trouble, of course. that is not the primary goal. the goal is to transition the security to an afghan lead. and what a we heard at the isap meeting was the contributions from contributioning nations to increase the number of trainers and mentors so that we could accelerate the training of the afghan security forces. all around this was a great vote of confidence in president obama's strategy for afghanistan. >> chris: you met with afghan president karzai the other day.
last week he said that the u.s. must reduce its military operations especially its night raids which are the very tactics that seem to be working. i know you met with him, as i say, a couple of days ago. did you get him onboard the new aggressive u.s. battle plan? >> well, chris, i think i just want to take issue with your characterization new aggressive american battle plan. i think what you will hear from general petraeus, president obama, president karzai and all of us is that we now have all of the components of the strategy that president obama directed a year ago. and we believe it is working and not only do we in the american government believe it is working what was particularly reassuring is that the expressions of support that came from the nato isap partner
countries also recognized that we are making progress on the ground. now, when you aren gaged in both trying to kill and capture the enemy and get support from the local population you have to be always asking yourself is what i'm doing keeping that balance. general petraeus understands that probably better than any one. in my conversation with president karzai and the meeting that i just came from that president obama had with president karzai, we were very clear in saying we have to continue to do what is working but we cannot do it to the extent that it turns people against the very strategy that is working. and it is a constant -- this is a constant evaluation and i think it shows the level of real dialogue that is going on between us. >> chris: and did president karzai agree to that? >> absolutely. he is expressing legitimate concerns that come to him from the afghan people.
if you have a night raid and you take out a taliban leader he is owl for that. if you have -- he is all for that. if you have a night raid and four or five other people who have nothing to do with the taliban are collateral damage that is a problem. everybody understands that. what we are trying to do and i think we are succeeding through a lot of hard work through the military and civilian leadership on the ground is to constantly try to get that balance right. >> chris: the obama administration is pushing for a vote this year and the new start treaty agreement with the russians but jon kyl says there is not enough time in this lame duck session before the end of the year and the fact is you only have one of the nine republican votes you need. aren't you taking a big chance pushing for a vote this year and running the risk of suffering a major embarrassing defeat on the world stage? >> chris, i have a great deal of respect for all of my col
leaks, democratic and -- colleagues, democratic and republican in the senate. and i think that everyone is trying to figure out how to do the right thing on this important treaty. i would just make three quick points. one, this is in the national security interests of the united states. there is no doubt about it. in fact, what i was a little surprised by at the nato meeting was the number of people like chancellor merkel of germany, foreign ministers and prime ministers and presidents from the baltic countries for centralle eastern europe like the editorial written by the foreign minister of poland, people on the ground in europe, nearby russia many of woman who were part of the former soviet union who are saying please ratify that now united states senate. why are they saying that? not because they have a dog and hunt between the democrats and republicans in our country.
it is because they know this would be an important treaty for the continuing cooperation between russia and the united states. secondly, we do not have any inspectors verifying what russia is doing with their nuclear stockpile or anything else that is going on in their sights. we lost that capacity. if you talk to any of our intelligence experts like general jim klappert the new director of the national intelligence agency they will tell you we can cannot go that much longer without the capacity restored. not just bipartisan but nonpartisan action on behalf of arms control treatias. going back to president regan who famously said trust by verify. right now we have no verification. we will find the time in the lame duck. i understand the legitimate concern there might not be enough time to debate and make
sure that everybody is informed. but as senator luger who is one of the leading experts in the world on the dangers posed by nuclear weapons and necessity of having more insight into what russia is doing, says we cannot wait and i agree with him. we are continuing to work with democratic and republican senators to try to get to a point where we can hold that vote this year. >> we have a verdicted this weekend, the first big civilian trial of a terror detainee held in a cia secret prison and then transforred to guantanamo who was convicted on one count but acquitted on 284 other counts, all of the other counts. is supposed to be the easiest trial to conduct. i guess the question is do you have any choice now except to hold all of the terror detainees at gitmo or either give them military trials or hold them indefinitely? the sentence.
>> the sentence for what he was convicted of is 20 years to life. that is a significant sentence. secondly, some of the challenges in the courtroom would be the very same challenges before a military commission about whether or not certain evidence could be used. thirdly, we do believe that what are called article three trials, in other words in our civilian courts, are appropriate for the vast majority of detainees. there are some for whom it is not appropriate. youle get no argument from this administration on that point. when you look at the success record in civilian courts of convicting, sentencing, detain in maximum security prisons by the civilian courts it surpasses what yet has been accomplished in the military commission. second baseman' well aware as a former senator from -- so i'm well aware as a former senator from new york on 9/11 how important it is to get this
right. i want to see these guys behind prison or executed, whatever is appropriate in the individual cases. now, we are moving to try to do that in the way that maximizes the outcome that is in the best interest of the security of the american people. so i don't think you can as a rule say oh, no more civilian trials or no more military commissions. president obama's theory of this is that most should be in article 3 courts. some should be confined to military commissions but as things stand right now we have actually gotten more convictions and more people, more terrorists are serving time in prison right now because of article 3 courts than military commissions. >> chris: secretary, one final question. you made some news recently in australia when you ruled out running again for office in 2012 and 2016. why? >> well, first of all, i love what i'm doing. i can't tell you what it is like, chris, to every day get to represent the united states
and that is why i feel so strongly about every issue from start to afghanistaning. >> chris: are you categorically saying that you are done with -- >> i have said it over and over again and i'm happy to say it on your show as well. i'm committed to doing what i can to advance the security, the interests and the values of the united states of america. i believe that what i'm doing right now is in furtherance of that and i'm very proud and grateful to be doing it. >> chris: you are done with elective office? >> i am. i'm very happy doing what i'm doing and i'm not in any way interested in or pursuing anything in elective office. >> chris: secretary clinton thank you so much. thank you for talking with us and safe travels home. >> thanks a lot. good to talk with you. >> chris: up next we talk politics with governor rick perry, the new chairman of the republican governor's association. (voice 2) how bad is it? (voice 1) traffic's off the chart...
(voice 2) they're pinging more targets... (voice 3) isolate... prevent damage... (voice 2) got 'em. (voice 3) great exercise guys. let's run it again. (voice 3) great exercise guys. if you live for performance, upgrade to castrol edge advanced synthetic oil. with eight times better wear protection than mobil 1. castrol edge. it's more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. from virtually any security threat. or, like fortinet, you can dream it and do it.
fortinet lists on nasdaq, the world's most innovative can-do exchange. fortinet lists on nasdaq, what are you looking at? logistics. ben? the ups guy? no, you see ben, i see logistics. logistics? think--ben is new markets. ben is global access-- china and beyond. ben is a smarter supply chain. ben is higher margins. happier customers... everybody wins. logistics. exactly. see you guys tomorrow. host: could switching to geico or more on car insurance?ercent do woodchucks chuck wood? (high-pitched laughter) man: hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!
vo: geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. >> chris: joining us from h his home state of texas is the new chairman of the republican governor's association, rick perry. and governor, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> chris, thank you. it's good to be with you this morning. >> chris: what role do you see the republican governors playing in the debate over the next two years and also in the
2012 presidential campaign? >> well, hopefully one of the most extensive roles that they played and i'm talking about even more than in '96 when tommy thompson and governor engler were involved. we will be very involved with working with counter parts and not necessarily our counter parts but colleagues and friends in washington as they devolve power out of washington, d.c. back to the states. >> chris: i'm going get into more specifics in a moment. this is an overview question. you have written a new book called fed up in which you say that the balance between the federal government and the states is out of whack and needs to be corrected. how far would you go? >> it has been for some time. once you read the book fed up you will i think agree that the
federal government has centralized so much power and taken away the incentive to compete from a lot of the states. states should be the centers of innovation and laboratories of innovation where people try out different ideas and healthcare is a great example. this federalized washington healthcare now may not work. as a matter of fact, we know it won't work well and i have an idea that other states can come up with better ideas and we will pick and choose what works best to deliver healthcare to our citizens. >> chris: let's pick up on healthcare. you want to repeal the obama reform plan that 25% of texans currently don't have health insurance. that is the highest rate in the country, would you just let them go without? >> one of the reasons, chris is, because of the strings attached from the federal dollars that come down here in our medicaid programs. as a matter of fact, that is one of our strong points to
block granting is we can create a better and more expansive insurance cover and without all of the federal strings attached. you make exactly the point that we will be making in washington. due to the things that you are supposed to do like securing the border, deliveringle the mail preferrabley on time and on saturdays, getting involved in the things that the constitution doesn't say one word about like healthcare. >> chris: are you saying on things like medicare and medicaid that those programs should be ended and federal money should just go to the states? >> what i'm saying is that between social security, medicaid and medicare there is $106 trillion of unfunded liabilities and not one dime saved to pay for them. my children who are in their 20s know that the social security is the ponzi scheme. medicare we think we can save
substantial dollars for the federal government and the state if they will allow us to implement that program. for instance, it is $30 billion a year between the state and federal government for one year of medicaid in the state of texas. we think we can cut that substantially, help our colleagues in washington, d.c. balance the budget up there and substantially help with us our budgetary issues here if they will just trust the states to do what the states that are bound into others actually was letting the states being the laboratories of innovation. >> chris: would you do the same with social security? end social security as a federal program? >> let us work on medicaid and while we are doing that they can have the discussion on how to our social security program on better and more solid footing. >> when you say a ponzi scheme, the fact is it is just a demographic fact, when social security started in the 1930s and i forget the exact numbers
but there was 7 or 8 workers for every one retiree. happens now because of the baby boom there are more retirees and fewer workers out there. not a ponzi scheme in the sense of bernie mad off. >> probably even would make mr. ponsi feel bad if he was still alive. it is a ponzi scheme. i don't know how you would explain it any other way than what you just did. there are fewer people paying into it and our kids are never going to see any benefit from this. fix it and fix it today. >> kimberly: let's go back to one of the other. >> chris: let's go back to one of the other prime targets of yours which is bailouts. i know you are unhappy with them but the fact is general motors had a big ipo which paid back the federal government $13.5 billion of the $50 billion investment with more to come and even a conservative republican senator
like bob corker was tennessee who was originally against the bailout of general motors now says you know what, it worked. >> i don't think government should be getting involved in private -- >> just to say that it worked. to back up, i don't know if it worked or not. frankly at the end of the day, i don't know that anybody can say that the government wasn't out any money or what have you u. here is what is more important. sending the message there are people out there or init at this times out there too big to fail is just wrong. it is wrong philosophically and wrong for a fiscal conservative to say that. i disagree with the senator. i think washington made a serious mistake. the reason we have bankruptcy laws is to restructure and make businesses more efficient and government needs to stay out of those things. >> chris: let's look at the real world effect of this, buff. there was governor.
a study released says general motors and chrysler saved 1.1 million jobs this year and 314,000 jobs this year. you would have just let those people fend for themselves. >> i think your study is looking at one thing. the state of texas over the course of the decade of the 10,000s, 850,000 net new jobs created during that period of time. when you have low taxes and low regulatory climate and legal system that doesn't allow for oversuing and continue to have a great skilled work force because we have accountable skills and then we get out of the way. the federal government ought to try that. i guarantee if this country's economy would go roaring back to life if they saw did not have government interfere with the free market. let it work and i will promise you jobs will be created and our economy.
fix the tax system all of those things together. evolve all of that power in washington, d.c. and let the states become the lab toy labos of innovation. that is what you are going to hear out of these governors. i got to think there are democratic governors out there that don't want, washington, down micromanaging the states. >> chris: let's talk about texas because you are quite right. you have one of the lowest tax burdens in the u.s. and led the country in private sector growth over the past decade. on the other hand, you are facing a state deficit of $25 billion over the next two years and you are saying you are not going to raise any taxes. so how are you going to deal with that shortfall? >> well, one thing i will take you to task on, chris, you got a better crystal ball than anybody down here unless you are just throwing numbers at the wall and with all due respect that number will not be known until january when the comptroller makes the official estimate. there is a lot of guesses.
but the fact is here is how we will do it, just like we did in 2003. we faced a $10 billion short fall and we can't deficit spend in texas, we have a constitutional amendment to the texas constitution, something that the federal government should have in place as well but we will prioritize what is important. keeping the economy, obviously our taxes and regulatory climate and legal system et cetera. we are considering the concept of losser pays to make the legal system even better for the business men and women in the the state of texas. we will prioritize what is pop, publiimportant,important and we our spending. we reduced our spending and fillle a budget gap of $10 billion and didn't raise taxes and we won't raise taxes this time in texas. >> chris: education accounts for 55% of the state spending. healthcare 25%. public safety you just
mentioned 10%. that is 90% of the budget. you are going to cut that by $25 million? and that is the number that is out there, sir. >> here is one of the -- and again, i disagree with that number but that is beside the point. here is whey would do for starters. block granting for federal government medicaid dollars back to us. cut that in half and we think we can get goes to that. that is $9 billion of saving tion for the federal government. $6 billion of savings right there for the state of texas. we have done this before, chris. i greatly respect your focus on our put and wha budget and wha. we are not going to raise taxes. we are going to reduce spending and i will tell you at the end of the day texas will be better off and texans will be better off as we will continue to lead the nation in the creation of jobs and wealth and this country will be better off from it. >> chris: running out of time
but there are a couple of other issues i want to talk to you about kind of a lightning round of quick questions and quick answers. in your book you criticize not only republicans but democrats. the big government under the administration of george w. bush and you say his compassionate conservativism was a near complete capitulation to the welfare state. >> well, look, president bush will go down as a great president because he kept us safe and took the fight to the islamic terrorists and for that we will be forever grateful but the fact is when you look at the spending from the bailout, when you look at medicare part d, when you look at -- listen, i don't agree that washington, d.c. should be the epicenter of things like healthcare or education. it needs to be devolved back to the states. that is where in my book that is where the 10th amendment and the constitution focuses.
we disagree on what washington's role should be. i hope somebody should stand up and run for the president of the united states and say i want to be as inconsequencal in your life as i can. that is a winning strategy. >> chris: you have said repeatedly you are not going to run for president. why not, sir? >> i think being the president -- or the governor of a state like, texas, or even for that matter oklahoma or new mexico is a more pivotal job in the future. i hope that someone says i'm he going to go to washington and try to get back to the constitutional roots and devolve back to the states. why would you want to be up there if the action is down here in the states? >> chris: and one last question along those lines and we are running out of time. you took the job as the head of the governor's association did you have to make a commitment that you would not run for president? >> i have made that commitment every time i have been asked and that still stands.
i don't want to be the president of the united states. i won't to work with the states to be more pivotal. >> chris: my guess is your appearance today will look you more attractive for a gop candidate. >> i hope i look attractive to the governors who believe that the the 10th amendment is what it says that the states are where the power should be. >> chris: thank you so much for joining us and please come back. >> gooded to be with you this morning. thank you, sir. >> chris: up next, our surge panel on the changing powers in washington. they see if they can fit it into their schedule. as a part time sales associate with walmart. when william came in i knew he had everything he needed to be a leader in this company. [ william ] after a couple of months, i was promoted to department manager. like, wow, really? me? a year later, i was promoted again. walmart even gave me a grant for my education. recently, he told me he turned down a job
instead of giving americans what they want, democratic leaders plan to use the last few days of lawmakers expect to spend in washington this year focusing on everything except preventing this tax hike which will cost us even more jobs. >> chris: senate republican leader mitch mcconnell warning democrats about lame plans for the lame duck session of congress. and it is time now for our sunday group. bill kristol of the weekly standard. a.b. stoddard of the hill newspaper. kevin math ne matthew and fox s political analyst juan williams. so something happened in washington this week that i
have never seen before. the president invited congressional leaders over to the white house for dinner and a talk with the next two years and the gop leaders said youngsters anoa we can't fit it into our schedule. mow about the week after thanksgiving. what is going on here, bill? >> first they heard about this was in the media that they had commitments with the new members in town this past week and they willle show up the week after thanksgiving. they would like to get the tax code set for the next two years. i was with 30 newly elected house republicans yesterday at the heritage foundation and they would love for it to not get done in the lame duck session and for those first vote to be to extend tax rates. it will pass the senate and end up on the presidents it desk and i think he will sign it and the house republicans will say hey put us in charge of the house and we just reversed an increase in tax rates that will go into effect on january 1. i think they are crazy enough
to do the tax deal in the lame duck from the democrats and obama administration preview but it might not happen. >> chris: i want to pick up with that on you. coming up against two deadlines. the bush tax cuts have to be extended or they run out and everybody gets a tax increase at the end of the year and also the budget, our continuing resolution for spending runs out the first week of december and if they don't pass that there is no government. so it seems like both sides are planning a little bit of legislative chicken here. >> seems so but really the democrats are in charge and they have been swallowed whole by their losses. spent all of their energy this week on the trial of charlie rangel on their leadership fight and altercations about the campaign. look at the calendar and november 30 is the day that the white house meeting is supposed to take place and also the day that the unemployment insurance expires. the following day december 1 is a report on don't ask don't
tell from the pentagon and also the day that the fiscal commission will be releasing its report and then on friday days later the same week the government shuts down unless they renew the funding for operations of the government. it is a lot to pack in a four day period. >> chris: why didn't they work on it this week? >> they are just paralyzed. they are still running a legislative schedule and they are paralyzed. if they could have come to an agreement on tax cuts buy now they would have. they couldn't do it before the election and they haven't yet. >> chris: i want to touch on that with you, kevin. sitting here a week ago after i talked to david axlerod and jim demint we all thought there is the deal on tax cuts, temporary increase of all of the bush tax cuts and no increase in rates for two queer years or three yr four years but that seems less likely? >> the interesting dynamic right now is just how opposed the democratic leaders are up on capitol hill towards this white house.
i think the white house always had a problem with capitol hill before and they were liked but never feared or respected. i think that have probably gotten worse. i think the other thing has to do with the simple fact that the republicans up on the hill are sowing their oats a little biand they feel like they have all the leverage and leverage right now is the most important thing you can have in the lame duck. and john boehner and mitch mcconnell are willing to work and wait until they have a clean slate come january. >> chris: why do you think that they put off the meeting until november 30? >> i take everybody at their word that there were different problems, scheduling issues that they had. >> john boehner was at a news conference at the time of the meeting. >> i believe there is a bit of a power play because they do hold all the cards right now. the same democrats up on capitol hill pushing the message before the election about taxes they had an election that wasn't rendered in their favor.
if they ten to elect the same leaders and continue to push the same message. they don't seem to get it and i know that the republicans up on capitol hill feel that they have all the leverage. >> chris: juan? >> the democrats after the '06 races met with president bush. i just think it was rude. even if it was a scheduling staff caused by the white house and in president obama's assumption that they agreed to meet then i think it ended up making republicans look as if they are still purr pursuing e policy of simply obstructing anything that obama wants to do. >> chris: the balance of power in washington right now in this lame kic duck session. >> it is republican. if all of the republicans have they gainait and they dwayne more votes in the house and the senate. that raises the question are you sincere in saying you want to get something done for the american people or is this just about politics and as mcconnell unfortunately said, about
defeating obama in 2012. >> chris: let's turn to the new start treaty which is a big issue. as i discussed with sec secrety clinton jon kyl is sort of a lead dog on this for the republicans said there is not enough time in the lame duck session let's wait until there is a new congress and new senators and consider it then. the white house, though, seems to be upping the ante for a vote this year. the president keeps pushing it. he kept about the strategic importance about this. got a lot of nato leaders to support it. got some eastern european foreign ministers to support it. they seem to really want to make this a big issue before the end of the year. >> they do. vice president biden had a bunch of us who talk foreign policy into the white house and went an hour and a half to tell us how important it was is that it happen in the lame duck. i don't see the strength of the
argument honestly. i think they will get the treaty through. you have ten year republican senators. the treaty was signed in april. if it were urgent they had plenty of months to get it through. they controlled the senate. they had 59 senators after all. they could have spent two creeks on the floor in september -- two weeks on the floor in september and got ten through. instead they negotiated with senator kyl. i thought they would be better off. i think secretary clinton said they are not going to try to go around senator kyl. they are going to play hard ball. if they do to senator mcconnell and say not necessarily push it through the lame duck give us the commitment it will be brought up in february or march and brought up in regular order. >> who controls the new senate. senator reid. republicans are not going filibuster a treaty and if they had 67 votes they will have 67 votes for it. i think the focus on the lame duck is self-defeating by the
administration. i think signaled the backing off from the white house sort of attempts to bluster. >> bill, it's not good -- >> what if they lose? >> they will not lose that vote. >> they have to convince 67 senators. >> they have to do that in the lame duck or the regularring session. >> why is it not a good treatia? you saw the lineup of republican who came into the white house i mean everybody said this is a necessary deal and it looks like jon kyl is saying you know what, let's get back to obstructing and taking away the key foreign policy achievement of this administration. >> i think the problem is that they worked hard to get support but they are not the ones voting up on capitol hill. i think the other big problems that they have is that they haven't done the work. >> they approved by the foreign relations committee on a bipartisan vote and a key senator with substantive
concerns and doesn't believe that this ought to be rushed. >> what senator has concerns? >> essential concerns about the funding behind the modernization of the nuclear armament that we have and assurances from the capital but hasn't gotten -- >> jon kyl said himself it is not a complicated document and that is true. this has been vetted. the white house has come pretty far in trying to ensure senator kyl and come u up with funding for it. he can say that he needs more assurance. i do agree with those that say that president obama is rushing this because he is looking for 14 republicans versus nine come january. does this have to be passed? yes. >> is it important and urgent? >> maybe not today or next week but urgent that it be passed to help set our relations with russia and help to isolate iran. it is important. >> you are never far enough until you have all the votes
and you don't have all the votes. >> that is certainly true. >> one crease lesson when i worked on capitol hill. 67. >> we have to take a break here. when we come back, how close is too close? we will debate the controversy over new airport security measures, after the break. ] pe to ge capital for money. they come to us for help. at ge capital, we've been financing taylor guitars for over eight years, helping them build a strong dealer network. bringing music to people... i like that. ♪ ♪ [ bob ] i didn't know you could play. i didn't either. ♪ i'm off to the post office... ok. uh, a little help... oh! you know shipping is a lot easier with priority mail flat rate boxes. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate.
plus, you can print and pay for postage online. and i can pick them up for free with package pickup. perfect! cause i'm gonna need a lot of those. wow! i knew i should have brought my sleigh. priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.90 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. ah, it's stinging a little bit more than usual! yeah, you'll get used to it. the longer you keep your high mileage car, the more it pays you back. get castrol gtx high mileage. it helps engines last longer by fighting the main causes of engine failure. i think a dime went up my nose. yeah, it happens. don't change your car. change your oil to castrol gtx high mileage. its more than just oil. it's liquid engineering. on this day in 1985, president regan and soviet leader gorbachev ended their
first summit. they remained divided on star wars missile defense. stay tuned for more ar panel ad our power player of the week. when i saw all the jobs disappearing, i knew i needed to find a better way to support my daughter. [ male announcer ] at age forty, greg flowers went back to school. [ greg ] i got a job as a computer applications engineer. [ male announcer ] but now, some in washington want regulations
restricting access to career colleges and universities, denying opportunity to millions of people like greg, letting government decide who can go to college. it's my education, my job, it should be my choice. [ male announcer ] don't let washington get in the way. what is all the extra security tonight? >> we have president bush on the program so everybody gets patted down. >> even you. in this is your show. makes no sense at all. >> tell me about it. >> chris: jay leno and former president bush feeling the pain that many air passengers will go through during this busiest of travel seasons. we are back now with the panel. so it was three weeks ago, kevin, that the transportation security administration again
has enhanced screening at airports including full body scans that are very revealing and new patdowns that are very thorough. so, is this big brother run amuck or is this a necessary response to a terror threat? >> i have my personal experience of having gone through the screening and i have flown twice in the last two weeks and i haven't seen that much that i would find very objectionable and then i look at how the public views the new cycle around this issue. you see a lot of experts after the abdulmutallab issue and they say we should have gotten smarter. many say we have gotten more ob tuesdaobtus. in how we do it. we have a current system that equates the 80-year-old grand mother from omaha bank ma with the foreign national who buys a
one way ticket with cash. instead of having a very efficient system we have an inefficient system and that is despite all of the money and technology that we have. >> chris: a.b., some passengers not just saying it is stupid. some saying it amounts to sexual assault and some are also saying it is a violation of the fourth amendment to the constitution's ban on unreasonable search and seizure. do you buy any of those? >> i haven't been groped at the airport yet. >> chris: i'm sorry for you. >> they have the option of the full body scanner. there is complaints about the choice between receiving radiation from the scanner and having an invasive patdown. the homeland security department is maintaining that the level of radiation you are exposed to is quite low and comparable to the amount we are are ex-potioned to anyway when.
they need to make sure that the scanners are safe or safe enough. but i think as far as the pilots, you know, having to go -- undergo these as well, that was a huge mistake. they have now been given special rules and they are going to be 2:they ar -- they e given a pass. obviously if they were terrorists they could just fly a plane into any building and they could be treated differently. as long as the terrorists are willing to kill themselves we are in a game that we struggle to win. >> reporter: as a rock red conservative, are you offended by what the tsa is doing? >> not really. there might be better ways to do it. in holland, they have some scanner less revealing and works as well. >> chris: i have seen it on tv and it looks like a cartoon character as opposed to the very graphic scanner we have in this country.
>> i think it is tough. i tried to actually think this through in the last couple of days and it is not easy to do say do what they do. they have ten mill air passengers a year and we have 600 million air passengers a year. >> and you can't have individual interviews of all of the air passengers which is what the israelis do. people say let's do profiling. we do have secondary issues. the nigerian who buys a one way ticket and stands on his airport will get a secondary screening. no question we are doing that universal level of of let's say strict screening for everyone. even the 80-year-old are grandmothers. seems crazy to do it that way. on the other hand, it is not to say that excluding 0-year-old grand mothers how you will give the tsa guidance as to who
would wave through. >> chris: are you saying there is an overreaction here? >> i'm not sure there is. this has been ginned up by a few media outlets. is is unclear. the percent of people that actually travel and have undergone 30s versus those washing on tv. >> i'm not entirely convinced that this isn't ginned up by and let's see, i don't know. >> chris: a lot more people will be flying this weekend. juan, you famously talked about your fears about getting on planes. where do you weigh in on this? >> t makes it safer i'm all for it because i get on planes a lot. i have been patted down and been through the new scanner and old scanner. if it makes them safer post 9/11 i'm sympathetic to the government's position. and i asked janet napolitano about it this week and i said
would you discover the christmas day bomber with the new scanner and they say, yes. not absolutely, yes, and i went back and said exactly how is it going to detect it. they said any kind of abhorrent possession on your body, they expect they have a better chance with this device than without it. if something happens in this country we willle hold those elected and appointed officials responsible so their job is to prevent another terror incident and that is what they have got to do. i must say that when i see a little old lady patted down i think what is going on here. and then as i have said, i engagehat they have to engainl in some form of criminal profiling. imagine my position on racial profiling. in terms of there is a higher likelihood for certain groups of people, i mean that is obvious, isn't it? >> just on the profiling issue, maybe what we ought not to do,
any time you profile somebody because of their race or ethnicity you make it -- if you make one mistake you have a big, big problem, right. why not start profiling actions and tactics. if somebody starts buying -- if you are buying a one way ticket with cash and don't have luggage, that person is somebody who out to get those versus an 80-year-old. >> chris: what worries me about the whole debate and it is carried out on national television. if a person has a one way ticket or, you know, if they show up at the airport with no luggage. isn't that almost giving a primer to possible terrorists about okay, i'll get the round trip ticket, it won't cost that much more. >> and that is where i think the heeding edge. >> you aren't going to pat down kids and a kid could be used conceivably -- the leading edge of this has to be intelligence. you are seeing movements on capitol hill to start targeting every single piece of cargo
because of the last scare we had with ink cartridges. that has to be the focus, too. put the technology and funding in place. now, let's start sharing the informationing back and forth so that we don't have to pat down three-year-olds during the screenings while they are traveling for the holidays. >> and once the word gets out grandmas aren't going to get patted down there will be a terrorist grandma. >> i think that if you are going to fly given the danger that we are in you have to accept these are the requirements to keep us safe. >> i think we are a nation at war. we should understand that we have some responsibility here. i don't think there is any question about that. and one thing to say, there is a layer of security already in place checking out people before they get on flights. >> chris: thank you, panel. see you next week. travel safely all of you and don't forget to check out panel must where our group here picks right up with the discussion on
our website foxnewssunday.com. where we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next, the power player of the week. [ male announcer ] you can dream of a mobile app that lets business owners handle payroll on the go. or, like adp, you can dream it and do it. adp lists on nasdaq, the world's most innovative can-do exchange. imagination and reality have merged. because of one word, a new generation-- a fifth generation--
of fighter aircraft has been born. because of one word, america's air dominance for the next forty years is assured. that one word... is how. >> chris: it thanksgiving is not only about thanks but also about food. not just it turkey but all those sweets which got us thinking about our power player of the week. >> it is that moment of disbelief and that moment of joy to say wow. >> chris: doug goldman is in the wow business. the star of the networks ace of cakes he is world famous for making one of a kind works of art you admire and then eat. the name is about the cake. wowed?rter: deadry tready to e
his five rice, an r 2 d 2 cake he made for george lucas. >> the it went back and forth and it had the blinking lights and it had the button. >> chris: and it was cake. >> kimberly: it was cake. >> chris: we went to baltimore to see him in action. it looks more like santa's workshop than a bakery. filled with brilliant artists busy creating. when isn't cooking he is back in the shop. >> safety first. >> chris: drilling the structure tsa suppors that sups cakes. he showed us one he is driving to arizona for a birthday party. >> they wanted a life sized baby elephant and want it to feed 100 people. >> a cake and a work of art. awesome. >> he will make 15 cakes a week and it is strictly first come first serve. serve.
but it is expensive. >> how much can a cake cost? >> a cake can cost a lot? >> chris: $5,000? >> sure. >> ten? >> absolutely. >> chris: up? >> yeah. >> chris: one reason people will pay that -- the show now runs in 40 countries. >> the show just got on the air in kuwait. hi, kuwait. >> chris: doug goldman's career started as a teenager when would break into train yards and spray graffiti. >> i would make trains pretty. >> chris: in college he studied metal culture but it was in culinary school where he found h his schooling. >> the two things came together in a third world cakes happened. >> chris: ace of cakes is part cooking demonstration, part reality show as doug and his
gang take on impossible projects with unreasonable deadlines and always seem to pull it off. >> very exciting but very stressful. we have a lot of work to do in a day and a half now. >> chris: but he keeps it all in perspective. >> we are not saving anybody's life here, we are cake decorateors but making people smile. these are things you see during the day that really to make you smile. >> chris: the food network announced friday the new season of ace of cakes starting in january will be its last. the network says its viewers still love dove so they are developing another show for him. that's it for today. have a great week and a happy thanksgiving. we'll see you next "fox news sunday." captioned by closed captioning services, inc.