tv To the Contrary With Bonnie Erbe PBS August 24, 2014 3:00pm-3:31pm EDT
>> funding for "to the contrary" provided by the cornell douglas foundation, committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection, and eliminating harmful chemicals. additional funding provided by the colcom foundation, the wallace genetic foundation, and the oak foundation, the e.y rhodes and leona b. carpenter corporation and the charles a. frueauff foundation. >> this week on "to the contrary," >> first terrorists use sexual enslavement of women as a watch warp. then the ethics of surrogacy. behind the headlines efforts to end child abuse and neglect.
>> bonnie: hello, i'm bonnie erbe. welcome to "to the contrary," a discussion of news and social trends from diverse perspectives. up first, women and terrorists. as terrorists from the group known as isis or isil threatened to behead more american journalists, the world reacted in horror. to its beheading of journalist jim foley. less known is isil's equally horrendous history of extreme violence toward women. the group recently kidnapped some 500 women and girls in territories isil controls in iraq, condemning them to a life of sexual slavery, all in the name of islam. >> they're going to impose on these women wha or marriage in e
cause of gi had or whatever that is. >> isil members claim to be "defenders of islam," but according to noted islamic jurist dr. azizah al-hibri, their acts completely violate the faith. >> this is not as only contrary to the corn but the prophet himself said that when you enter a city or a village or laned in war, leave the women and the elderly and the children aside and only address the fighters. these people are oblivious to the prophetic statement and have done everything contrary to islamic values. >> anew shay does the world viw seriously enough the view of violence against women was a weapon of war. >> no weeks, i think they need to take this more seriously. >> violence against women is one of the hanie usness of this
terrorist group. >> it does not take i seriously enough and we need to take very seriously the threat of this organization and do whatever we can to end it. >> i think that sexual voyages against women is not longer a casual tiff war, i think it's become a weapon, and educated members of sort must know we have to do something about that even though we're far away from it today. >> we already made more than 90 airstrikes in iraq and syria against eisel, but it's intensifying after the beheading. should it have intensified months before when isil sent out this declaration that they were going to capture 500 mainly christian and yazidi women in the mountains and throw them into sexual slavery? >> i think before the strike, after the strikes. can we talk about this country, iraq, was supposed to be a beacon of democracy in the emailed? i don't i think with the u.s. declining their troops and
slowly recareens the number of troops, they completely i can in order a massive power volume that was arming in iraq, and i feel like we're kind of dealing with the aftermath. we should have done a lot more prevention, but we're here now and i think it's always minorities, women, children that are the most vulnerable members of society. so it's very easy for extremists to come in and the most tangible demonstration of their power is to threaten these first. >> i think we need to be using in the tool kit, one to make sure this new government in iraq is stabilized as much as possible and there's as much regional and international support for getting rid of this terrorist threat. as well, we need the united states and every other country who is eager to help needs to stop this terrorist pipeline into and out of the region. >> one thing the u.s. can do that they're not talking about and yesterday defense secretary chuck hagel said that they have
seen a group like this that is so organized and so well funded. the u.s. needs to follow the money. we know that a lot of the people -- >> the money is coming from in large part the kidnappings and the germans and the dutch and the french not yet the -- we and the u.k. are the only ones. it's not the only source of funds. they also grabbed -- they were funded originally by qadir, saudi arabia and turkey, and then they took over iraqi oil rigs, started selling oil for $25 a barely versus $100 like the saudis are, and now the saudis are upset with them. but the kidnappings are a huge source of their income. how do -- can we go to our fellow countries and say don't pay 30 million, $100 million ransoms anymore? you're funding terrorism? >> that's been part of the u.s. rational for not paying such ransoms, and so that's a debate that needs to be had. >> but are we -- 9, we can go to
these countries and say, knock it off. are we? this. >> i think that model is one that we should be serious with our allies about, yeah. >> unfortunately, even if we do who is to say they're going to take our advice? this is a massive problem, hays ha number of heads and be unfortunately i don't really see a way out of this unless it's through the use of force. we're there now, but i think that -- >> sach i race bomb them. >> i'm with you. i'm not even sure that it's all -- i'm afraid to say that but i'm not sure that this is going to end with bombing. i really do think that this is one of those situations where we are atrocities at a level that could lead to the extinction of people, entire groups. so at this level it is really to me, if there's any time when you are justified in using all force possible, this certainly is it, and i think that the american people, most american people would agree with that. >> this is a threat unlike no
other. we've never seen a socially sophisticated group like isil. social media fission, the execution of foley was unfortunately in h.d. voice-over, facebook. >> and it was tweeted out. >> westerners are going over there. the men that executed foley had a british accent, now the british government is really worried about their citizens going over. >> i think they've identified who he is, too. >> they're working on it, yeah, and i think the development is really scary, that we are going to see more executions happening. we've still got steve sotloff missing from florida, and on thursday there was a tweet out by isil saying we're going to deliver his body by courier to the americans. >> this use of technology, is there a difference, i wonder, off the top of my head, whether women advice men are watching the beheading video or should people be watching the video at all? >> the use of technology? i don't think it affects who is
watching the videotape i think it affects the number of people that are watching the video. i thinken women and men are sexually on the internet. but i have to quickly say there's -- equally on the internet. the kurds that the ewes u.s. who the u.s. have finally decided to arm, they're very, very feminist and they have an entire battalion, the 2nd ballottian that are all women, and isil believes nur killed by a women you are denied into heaven. i'm excited because it's a matter of time before they actually meet these female fighters. maybe women will liberate all of us and save iraq for us. >> that would be fabulous. how about using -- how about using our leverage with turkey, with qadir, with sawed raub yeah to cut off the funds? in the name of what's being done to the women there. will that wear caught? >> i don't think that will carry much weight now to be honest. i think because there are so many unknowns in the situation, just on thursday we learned from the joint chairman chief of staff that he's thinking about
syria. let's end gape syria. what kind of move that? we're not sure how to go about this. i think the administration is grappling with what is the military instead of cells of terrorism happening. >> what does it take ultimately to have abuse of women as a watch war in whatever form, a reason to go in and strike a country or strike an organization? >> that's a good question. this is a horrible instance but it's not the only instance. this is something that has happened probably as long as there has been war. we just need to understand as human beings that this is something that is a procedures and we need -- a -- atrocious and we as human beings cannot sit idly by and watch this happen. >> that conference was all about that, angelina joely and others and we just accept sexual violence as a part of convict in war, and it's not. angelina vol jolly was saying that we have to start prosecuting enough so people know it's not something that you
can get away with. >> i and that was put on by the british government so there is hope there in london. let us know what you think. please follow me on twitter @bonnieerbe. from terrorism to surrogacy. a new documentary challenges the ethics of surrogacy. the film's producer, jennifer lahl, wants to stop the practice altogether. breeders, a subclass of women features former surrogates who deeply regret their decisions. lahl, the president of the conservative-leaning center for bioethics and culture, equates the multibillion-dollar industry with selling organs. she also charges women aren't told of health risks or the possible suffering of newborns. a cambridge university study last year found surrogate children at the age of 7 showed higher levels of psychological problems compared with naturally conceived children. however, they also showed above average psychological well-being. and differences disappeared entirely by age ten.
so we'll get back in a second to the effects on the child, but we don't allow it legally. the u.k. affirmatively bans it, although it is -- contact are made here in the united states. what should be done about that? >> i really don't think there's much that the government should be to be honest. this is a country find on liberty and personal freedoms. if somebody wants to have this gift of life, and there's somebody volunteering to say, hey, i'm going to be your surrogate and give you that gift, left it happen. i think there's a patchwork of states that are criminalizing it and you've got california that's totally unregulated, and it's now a tourist industry out the there, reproductive tourism. >> oh, my goodness. the business of reproduction and women's bounds i think that it's two parties together and they agree, that's great. >> what we're seeing is so many women regretting it. there was coverage of a woman in
minnesota who surrogated for two gay men, and she's an account ant, educated obviously. and she totally regrets and it had to work out a deal to have part of the visitation rights with what turned out to be her daughter. >> better protection and prevention for the women, period because i mean not everyone is going to be educated and know their rights. >> i think it's very important, and i think feminists should have serious problems with surrogacy. i think it's very problematic. i thank jennifer allow him for creating this documentary. she's raised the question of life, the pressure that gets put onto women, usually low-income, people in financial distress. >> military wives. >> who are pressed into feeling this is the way they they can make some money, but lots of complications with it and problems, and at baseline a mod if ication of life that is pad for the future for all of the our culture. >> so our railroad banning it?
>> certainly not for legalizing. are you for banning it? >> this is not a road we should go down. >> what do you say to couples who, you know, let's say the woman can't hold a pregnancy or something? you're going to tell them you can't have your own child? >> we've also talked on this show about all the needs for adoption and foster children and so on, so there are ways to love and care for and bring a child into your family. we should look at those. >> but what about the people that are going overseas in in india, in tie rand where it's completely unregulated. >> guatemala. >> and you can rent a womb, and these women are really being treated for, i hate the metaphor of a cupcake often but it truly is. don't have any control over their bodies, the children that they're breading, -- oh, nigh god -- reproducing. but also when these children are born with abnormalities will they abandon the child? >> there was a couple from australia in thailand and the child turned out to have down
syndrome and they walked away. what do you do in a situation like that? >> this is one of those situations where i think that there needs to be severe, severe regulations. i'm not necessarily to the point where i think it should be totally banned because i think there might be some situations where there is agreement between the parents and the surrogate, but generally speaking i'm very wary about the degree to which impoverished women can be exploited in this situation, and you never see a rich woman about to be somebody's surrogate. >> in the minneapolis case i just talked about was clearly upper middle class. she didn't do it for money. and i've heard other women say they enjoy being pregnant. there are those, i mean, they're not the majority, but -- >> also, she had the power to do something about it when she changed her mind. what about the woman who does not to have opportunity, she does not have the funds to hire a lawyer and she doesn't even have the ability to get the connections in any other way? >> how much of the 20, 40, $50,000 price tag is the woman
getting if you have agencies in the middle. the surrogate for nicole kidman and julianna ransic is not going to be the same for some other woman in texas or guatemala. >> i totally understand standing up for the woman that's poor and uneducated, but it's not like somebody's coming over to them with a turkey barefoot and saying do it, be a surrogate. if we regulate this, are we going to regulate that people can't breathe? >> you two work it out, then. i you're both conservatives. work it out because you represent the conservatives predominantly catholic, i would assume, who think that life should not be, as you put it, come odd fid or made into a commodity and you're saying free patrick. >> i think this is a free enterprise. i know this sounds horrible talking about a woman's womb as such but i have two friends in the past year who got experience children that are now alive and well today through the gift of surrogacy. i have to stand up for it. >> so when we talk about freedom, we are talking about freedom for life, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness, and at the basis of that is our view of life, and so i am concerned about all the kinds of reproductive and new different ways of approaching family that are seriously impairing our view of what life is all about. and if we are, ab jennifer allow him says, making children and shining them according to wishes of adults that's quite a different view than we have had. >> our conservative women are going to work that out because where's the middle? is there middle ground? >> life is a fundamental premise of our entire structure of freedom and our constitutional order. >> but there are a lot of blurred lines, and whiley agree with that in many ways, we can't eliminate, right? but at the same time there's just -- it's a gift and it's a volunteer, then it's very much okay. i understand the people that are saying pregnancy for hire is wrong, but if we regulate that there's a short while until we regulate the other two. >> what about the children? what the about the kids in this situation?
again, we need to go back to the one in minneapolis. she ended up donatinger egg, which i think is actually legally and ethically a whole different story from being given an egg and a sperm from the -- from whoever that, assuming one or both are from the couple who want to have this child. than if you did it the other way. >> exactly. >> and a whole different set of worms. but the -- but what about the kids? shouldn't we thinking legally, ethically about the child involved? >> i personally think so. at some point if the child wants to know who is my biological mother, i think they should have the right to know. i personally do. this is something where i don't have any friends who have been through this experience so i can't have that perspective, but just in terms of my own moral compass, i would know that if it was me, i would want to know who
my biological mother is and i wouldn't want anyone to say that i didn't have the right to find out. >> do they draw up agreements where the child p can't know? >> i think all kinds of things are going on, but we're finding in the the first generation to grow up and not know who their parents is, their father in particular, they expressed exactly what you did about wanting to know their heritage, her they came from. >> the children go through the same thing, and i think the same things should be available. i agree. >> what about the psychological health of the ripped away at birth and the psychological impact of being ripped away at birth from your -- you know, the woman who bore you, whether it might be her egg or somebody else's? what about that? >> not all kids are ripped away. but if they are ripped away, will they know the story, that they were ripped away from their mothers? all human beings go through this -- it's just a part of life to find out who you are and where you came from, so we owe it to the children, and we also owe it to the mothers. but some parents don't want
their kids to know. >> i have an adopted spinach my brother and i are biological. our sister was adopted birth. and we've gone through all challenges. you name it, we've gone through it, and we gave her a loving home, and she still misses the relationship of that with her biological, so it's very -- there's a lot parallels you can draw here with adoption. >> interesting. so we go to behind the headlin headlines. child abuse and neglect. a new federal report shows 9% of children nationwide suffers some sort of physician, emotional or sexual abuse or seers neglect butted often these cases go unreported due to the delicate nature of such crimes. >> in general child abuse and neglect are about 100 times as common as all forms of child cancer combined, so it's a tremendous problem with child health and adult health in our country. >> peed craw fric pedia tritiong
helps those children. >> the vast perpetrators of child maltreatment are people who are close to the child and have access to the child, and so we hear families worried about that, you know, stranger danger and chemocoming in a van to snatch children but that is a tiny portion of these cases. p. >> child maltreatment can lead to life-long mental and physical health issues, including even an increased risk of diabetes and heart disease. these impacts are often associated with toxic stress. >> when a child in early life experiences stress that is very severe or prolonged and at the time they don't have a healthy protective relationship with an adult to help mitigate the effects of that stress, then that stress can become toxic and
create changes in, even in their body and their mind that can b >> the only way to help these targets of abuse is to address them medically and psychologically and give them services all too often financially out of the reach of middle and lower class people. >> it is really brain health that we're talking about when we talk about mental health, and so i would say that it is absolutely appropriate for that to be recognized in the way that health care benefits are provided to people. >> with an increasing prevalence of child maltreatment, doctors and authorities are not the only ones who play a role in preventing child abuse and neglect. arkansas children's hospital is in the midst of a fund-raising drive to build children's house on the hospital campus, that so it can centralize clinical services needed for abused children and their families. >> this is something that is secretive it. happens behind closed doors and i hear so often we want to keep this in the family, we want to keep this a family issue and so they don't end up getting the
help that they need. part of what happens for prevention that we need to continue to change the cultural norms around discussing this openly and make it safe and acceptable for people to seek help that they need. >> so just talking about it, the mow people that are here they can talk publicly about it, the better, but what about this idea of more people peering into each other's lives to look for possible abuse or training medical personnel to look for possible abuse? are there problems with that, too? >> personally, i think that it makes sense to have we had yeah trition, for example, have discussions, to figure out what's going on and be able to link people to care if there is a reason to have concern. it is true that this is far morey pervasive than we like to think and that the number one danger that many children face isn't that boogeyman in the shadows. it's that person that's right
there in their home. it's not the parent, their aunt, their uncles, someone in that extended family oftentimes that's abuser, and we need to figure out how in the world can we crack that code of secrecy and get in there to help those children. >> so are doctors the best way? are doctors going to be the first to find out? >> maybe, and i know that throughout the health of profession there has been for some time tropicana to recognize the symptoms. in teacher training i was in college 20 years ago we were trained in that respect. i think that's a minimum necessity but we need to look deeper. so you need to look at where the risks are greatest, and we're seeing that risks for child abuse are higher where marriage is absent. so when it's a mother living with her boyfriend, a child in that household is going to be eleven times more likely to suffer abuse. we need to get at and try to create a culture that is helping restore marriage and stable marriage. >> a lot of times i don't think marriages is the answer. a lot of times the father can be
abusing his child. i think what is important is that we have to get the shame stigma away, especially from the children. if you feel like -- we have a two and a halfy-year-old and my husband and i are already starting to talk about how do we make sure she comes to us if she thinks something wrong or something should not be happening? i think we have to start with the child, make sure the child child feels like there's somebody they can go do. >> i think that teachers are sealed a great deal, whether it's rural or urban settings, and i think we need more guidance and licensed clinical social workers in schools. i think that's what's going to be helpful in raid aiding the diagnosis and pediatricians are excellent in this way. it's sad that with the degradation of the american family these are the side effects we are seeing as a society and i think people in this society are eliminating that stigma here in the western modern world, that stigma is going away and we are seeing more numbers reported. >> and that's a great note to end on. that's it for this edition.
provided by the cornell douglas foundation, committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection, and eliminating harmful chemicals. additional funding provided by the colcom foundation, the wallace genetic foundation, and the oak foundation, the e.y rhodes and leona b. carpenter foundation, and the charles a.frueauff foundation. for a transcript or to see an online version of this episode of "to the contrary," please visit our pbs website pbs.org/tothecontrary.
from washington, the mx laughlin group, the american original. for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. . issue one. off to the races. >> this november, two and a half months from now, voters will have their say on whether his or her congress member is worth reelecting. all 435 seats in the u.s. house of representatives are up for election, and 36 seats of the 100 members of the u.s. senate. as of today, the republican party controls the house, and as of today, the democratic party controls the senate. and also as of today, polling is giving us an g