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tv   Meet the Press  NBC  November 23, 2014 10:30am-11:31am EST

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call the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 800.974.6006 tty/v this sunday, tension in america on two fronts, race and immigration. in ferguson, missouri, ground zero for racial tensions. >> once you push so far, what do you do? you fight back. >> the governor preemptive lly prepares for a state of emergency. >>nd an officer awaits the decision of whether or not he is going to be indicted for the murd er of a unarnled teen the ager. and damaging the presidency. >> he did it himself. >> and unveiling a sweeping executive a action to give 5 million immigrants the right to
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live and work in this country legally. >> the system is broken and everybody knows it. and an icon accused. bill cosby under the allegations of sexual assault while a tv deal is canceled and venues cancel shows. and marian berry died overnight at the age of 78, former mayor of washington, d.c. joining me is joe scarbrough, and former governor bill richard zorn, and amy klobuchar and bill richardson. welcome to "meet the press." this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. two big stories dominating the news this sunday. we will go live to ferguson, missouri, in a few minutes, but it is the aftermath of the president's decision on immigration. in total about 5 million undocumented immigrants are shielded are from deportation
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under president obama's plan. who are the 5 million? 4 million undocumented parents of legal american residents and 300,000 are young people who were brought to the country illegal h ly but when they were children, and the plan also affects children who were in the u.s. for five years or more and they can pass a background check. and who is not there? 6 million who are not covered at all and no pathway for citizenship for those who are not covered. and also, tougher border security promise and the deportation security promised. and on the gop, they are unified for one issue, how they describe the president. >> he is not an emperor, but he is sure acting like one. >> unaccountable monarch. >> and now the question is whether or not republicans can get a bill passed through congre
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congress. the president says he has done his part. >> i cajoled and i call and i met. i told john boehner, you know, i will wash your car, and i will walk your dog, whatever you need to do, just, just call the the bill. >> i i asked my colleague john yang to go to arizona to get a firsthand look at how people on. >> reporter: el mirage is a place where the president's immigration policies become real and potentially changing lives. >> i am going to be able to go to college now. >> reporter: myra gomez brought here by her parents ten years ago from el salvador is now eligible for protection. what do you want to study? >> i want to study to be a nurse and then a detective. >> reporter: and maria flores watched the president on her laptop the at soccer practice. how did you feel this is. >> i felt happy, because my mom is going to be able to come out
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of the shadows. >> reporter: and she is citizen, because she was born in arizona, but her mom is an undocumented mexican citizen, and now her mom can work legally and not worry about being deported. tell me what is it like to be living in the shadows. >> it is a big thing, because a lot of people are like scared of the sheriffs, getting deported or not seeing their families ever again. >> reporter: this is maricopa county where sheriff joe arpaio is known for his tough stand on immigration, and he is already vowing to sue for the policy and calling it a free pass for the the undocumented immigrants. >> what about the people who come into the country and wait for years to get in here, and they do it the right way and how do you think they feel when you are giving to get out of jail free card to these 5 million people? >> reporter: and we asked a number of republican groups for comments, but they declined. el mirage was founded by migrant
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workers from mexico who came here to put down roots on their own, and today, there are descendents who are documented an undocumented who still play a crucial role in the area economy, and nobody knows how many already work in farms or restaurants or in construction. what would it mean to this community if everybody who was undocumented was deported? >> well, it would become a ghost town. it would be empty. >> reporter: fourth generation fa farmer kevin rogers says he helps the agriculture get the workers they need. >> today's folks don't want to work in the fields and they don't want to drive the hay bailer at 4:00 in the morning, and harvest the lettuce and even at $10 or $15 an hour, they choose not to do it. >> reporter:r and for maria, it means going to college. >> it means going to college and not going through what my mom went through. >> reporter: a kind of future that anyone would want for the
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next generation. john yang, arizona. >> again a lot of republican groups in arizona did not want to respond on camera when we sent our reporter down there. and no the so-called group of eight. they drafted the bipartisan bill in 2008 that passed the senate only to essentially die in the house, though technically a few more weeks in the session there. republican jeff flake of arizona, and democrat bob menendez of new jersey, and senator flake, let me start with you sh you, maricopa sheriff joe arpaio, and his lawsuit and possibly a koum more that states may file, and do you support the arpaio lawsuit against the president? well, what we need to do is to put the legislation on the president's desk. you know, the president has addressed one small portion of what needs to be done with immigration reform. we have to do the border security, interior enforcement, and guest worker plan, and deal with those here illegally, and
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he has done one portion of the ladder, and i would rather move all portions and put oit on the desk. that is my approach. >> so i understand that, but for or against the lawsuit? >> i have not even seen the lawsuit and i don't know what it contains. >> do you think it is appropriate to sue the president on the action? >> i think that the president moved beyond his authority, and no less than the washington post editorial board has opined about that. having said that, from myle role in the senate, i think that we ought to put the legislation on the president's desk, and that ought to be be the response. >> senator menendez, let me pick up on the legal case here. the question is whether the president can be impacting millions of people with prosecutorial discretion and things like that, and are you comfortable that this meets a constitutional test? >> oh, absolutely. look, 11 presidents going back to president eisenhower on 39 separate occasions, issued executive actions on immigration over the last 60 years.
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and the most e recent sig miff can't one was president reagan and the first president bush who issued executive a actions that protected 1.5 million undocumented people in the country, and just about 40% of all of the undocumented in the country at the time, and over 100 constitutional law professors in the country have issued statements to the president before he acted that this is well within his authority. so, look, as a reresult of the president's actions more felons will be e deported, and more border patrol at the southern border, and more people will pay taxes, and more families will be able to stay together, and those are the goals that are worthy of being achieved. >> senator flake, is there -- are you against the policy that the president is implementing, because it does not sound like that you are? >> no, we did much of what the president did, and in fact, we went further in the senate bill, and in almost every piece of the
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comprehensive or other immigration legislation that has been proposed in congress did at least what the president did, but the problem is that the way he did it is going to be making it dif can cult to move t-- dif the other parts of immigration reform that we need, and he will make it more difficult because of owhat he did. >> and that is the point that because he did this, no urgency to pass immigration reform in congress? >> well, not farther from the truth. look, the bill that senator flake and i put together along with others that got 68 of 100 votes in the senate, we don't get those types of votes on major contentious issues, and with we did over a year and a half, an languishing in the house. they have time to pass that dill bill and do the comprehensive nature that will strengthen the security, promote our economy, and preserve the history as a nation of immigrants, and so there is still clearly a
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persistent urgent needed to do that. the president could not and did not extend his legal authority beyond that which he could, a and this is why he could not deal with the whole issue, and the congress did it, and the house needs to act and only one person who stopped us from achieving that, and that is speaker boehner. put the bill on the floor and it would pass and we would move forward. >> i want to table immigration for a second and ask you both a quick foreign policy question. the house senate relations committee released a benghazi report, and findings, no intelligence failure prior to the attacks, the security at cia facilities sufficient, and security at state department facilities inadequate, and some of the talk thing points that susan rice used were wrong, and no wrong dogs, and none of the conspiracies found, and is it time for the republicans to drop the benghazi conspiracy theory?
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>> i always thought that the benghazi problem was the way it was cast by the administration, and the remarks of susan rice flew in the face of what we knew was going on, but with regard to other things going on that were addressed with the report, yes, i thought that for a long time we should move e beyond that. >> and senator menendez, the president has said that he will be expanding the troops in afghanistan beyond 2014, and president joe biden famously said in 2011, they are getting out of there in 2014 come hell or highwater, and that is not go going to happen. are you comfortable with the president's decision? >> well, look, we have to preserve the essence of what we a achieved in afghanistan in pursuit of our own national interests and national security which means making sure that the taliban is not resurgent, and along the afghanistan/pakistan border that we deal with the remnants of al qaeda there, and i think that the actions are appropriate, and in the other issue, i am glad that the witch hunt is over, and that is a
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bipartisan report, and it is time to move forward and have the aem embassy security that the xhoit tee passed. >> is benghazi a lesson learned for what is going on in iraq? >> well, they are not exactly the same, and in afghanistan this leadership, the new presidency invited us and has signed a bilateral security agreement essential for us to have the troops there, and in iraq, we could not get former prime minister maliki to agree to that, and that is a big difference. >> senator bob me mendez and senator jeff flake, thank you both for joining me. and i want to bring in joe scarbrough and reporter jose diaz belart. now, bush's plan for
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undocumented immigrants, this is the plan, 63% approved it, but now, here comes the republicans for president bush, a smaller majority, but a majority were in favor in 2006, and essentially the same plan that president obama is pushing and guess what, near 80% of the republicans opposing it, and are you shocked that the political party of the president matters so much? >> well, the are republicans and the democrats turned further on president bush, and turned further on john mccain and almost cost him the presidential campaign to go under. so this is a tough decision for either party to approach. but for the republican party, and i think that the president has overstepped the bounds and wh he has done may be proven to be unconstitutional if you look at the case law and go back to youngstown. and if you go to look at impeachment, and political suicide and shutdowns, and political suicide and
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de-funding, it is not possible. what do you do? you get a system right now that has 11.3 illegal immigrants in the country, and you can only deport 400,000 a year, you will defund the agencies more? so it looks like it is turning to the supreme court makes the most sense, and if they just use the words that president obama used in 2011, 2012, 2013, where he said -- >> well, hang on, joe, i will play them so you don't have to read it. >> this is not how the democracy works or how the constitution works. >> because i want to set up jose here, and i want to set up the remarks of the president, himself, questioning the the legal authority. >> there are enough laws on the books by congress that are very clear in terms of how we need to enforce the immigration system and for me to simply through the executive order to ignore the congressional mandates would not c
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conform with my appropriate role as president. we start broadening that, then essentially, i would be ignor ignoring the law in a way that would be illegal. i'm not the emperor of the united states, and my law is to execute the laws of the united states. >> jose, you have researched this and you are finding many scholars with disagreement of this. >> yes, in context, that is january 30th, 2013, and the first time he went back to dell sol high school. >> and he was cajoled. >> and optimistic and i have tell you that he did not feel that he had the authority, and that is a very specific question that i asked him and about the docu-parents, and he did not include, and this is important point, and on the statement of immigration, h and this is not a wishy washy president. and he has deported the entire
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population of houston to deport someone. every single time someone is e deported the question that someone asks is what about the kids born in the united states of america, and should they have their families destroyed, because their parents are undocumented? and he is dealing with this issue, because the house of representatives didn't do squat. >> well, jose, you just, and i have to say this, and every time i see the white house or the democrats say he had to do this because congress wouldn't do anything on it, i know that there are liberal justices that cringe, and say, okay, that is what the separation of powers is for, and if you go back to controlling the precedent, the president's executive orders are are looked at most suspiciously when he does something against the will and -- >> stated, and you were with the president friday, and should he have been trying to, should he have given congress five more months and said, essentially, i will sign the order june 1st if you don't act? >> no, the president didn't take
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this action before the election respecting the will of -- >> you think it is the right call? >> no. i think that he should have done it, because i think that it would have increased the turnout in colorado. look, i was around and i am that old that i voted or the simpson mazzoli in 1986. and then president george herbert walker bush signed the executive order just like that, 1.46 million, and just like president obama did and no uproar because they did the right thing. >> but it is for a specific bill though, and that is what the presidential order worked, and not the make new policies. >> and but they had it -- >> and this is a critical point. that is pertaining to a 1986 bill passed by congress, and it is cleanup operation, and this is -- >> cleaning up the bill, and it is a difference, yes. >> and the president here is making new policy, because he does not like what the congress has not done and that is what makes all of the difference. >> it is surprising that the republicans knew it was coming and they are talking about, let's have a response, and this
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has been coming down the pike for months. something, anything. here is your bill. >> and the politics, 10 million families are now affected by this act and by the affordable care act, and they will be loyal. >> and yes. >> and so is maria and her family. >> and i have to apologize, because -- >> and that is why they have to pass lemg slagislation. >> we will is more on this. and the tension awaiting the grand jury decision in ferguson, missouri. [ male announcer ] ours was the first modern airliner, revolutionary by every standard. and that became our passion. to always build something better, airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. that redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. after all, you can't turn dreams into airplanes
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welcome back. the eyes of the nation are focused on ferguson, missouri, where residents are awaiting a decision on whether police officer darren wilson will stand trial for shooting dead 18-year-old michael brown in august. that killing triggered violent confrontations between protesters and police in the town outside of st. louis over the summer. missouri governor declared a pre-emptive state of emergency on monday and hundreds of reporters and satellite trucks have converged on the town. are they preparing for the worst or making an already delicate situation even more tense? ron allen starts our coverage this morning in ferguson. >> reporter: just about every one of the 107 days and nights since michael brown was shot and
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killed, this man has faced down the ferguson police. what do you think you are accomplishing now? >> i mean, we're continuing to keep the presence here because we want to let them know we're not going anywhere. >> reporter: his passion taking him to the halls of power. his shirt says demilitarize the police. he was appointed to a high-level commission, tasked with finding solutions to poverty, education, policing, issues fuelling the protests. you can be on the governor's commission and also out here? >> yeah. i'm going to be me. i'm not going to join the commission and be a sellout. >> reporter: at 20, he is the youngest member, a student who washes cars to help pay for college with goals well beyond justice for michael brown. do you think they will indict the officer? >> no. >> reporter: you don't? >> if there was an indictment we would continue to be out there trying to seek change.
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change is changing the system, the justice system. people are not in the system for time that they don't need to be in. change could be a livable wage for people so they don't have to live paycheck to paycheck. >> reporter: the tension builds where the grand jury decision whether to charge the officer expected any day now. the governor declared a state of emergency criticized as too confrontational and too soon. he said it's his responsibility to protect public safety. >> i'm not preparing for war. i'm preparing for peace. >> reporter: now with protests planned in as many as 100 cities across the country, from los angeles to boston, the nation's top cop has called for everyone to take a deep breath. >> the justice department encourages law enforcement officials to work with the communities that they serve to minimize needless confrontation. >> reporter: back on the streets of ferguson, aldridge who sees this as a generational fight
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vows to be out there regardless what the grand jury decides with his young comrades. >> they understand this isn't the same standard civil rights protest. this is a group of folks who are just tired of being pushed against the wall. once you are pushed so far, what do do you? youí! fight back. >> reporter: here outside the courthouse this morning, you can place. we expect the grand jury to reconvene monday. it's unclear whether they will vote, unclear whether they will hear more evidence. it's a secret process. that's creating anxiety because people don't know what's going on. there's distrust, especially from the community of the victim. they don't trust this process as being fair. everyone taking precautions. a lot of businesses boarded up, barricades in place. we wait to see what the grand jury will do. chuck? >> ron, thanks very much. i'm joined from ferguson by anthony gray, a lawyer for michael brown, rudy jewly aknee
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who joins me from rockefeller center and michael eric dyson who is here in washington. mr. gray, ron allen brought up the anxiety of the process of the grand jury. to be effective, they need to be secretive. what are you concerned about in the process? are you concerned about the secrecy or that they are not going to indict? >> i'm not concerned they're not going to indict. i'm concerned about the process itself. there seems to have -- like you said before, there's a level of distrust over the process and those that are involved in the process that i think that that's adding a level of anxiety to this whole situation that doesn't have to be necessary had they done things a little bit differently in the beginning. >> do you believe if there's a trial, even if it's a trial that the cop is found innocent, mr. wilson is found -- officer wilson is found innocent, that
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having the trial itself will be therapeutic for the community? >> i think it may be therapeutic. but you got to understand, chuck, there are people that are locked and loaded into how they feel about this situation. anything short of reaching their full expectation will just never be satisfied. you got that small or maybe perhaps large group of people that feel that way. i'm not so sure if it will be therapeutic for them. it may be they arapeutic for th community. >> mayor, i'm curious what you thought of governor nixon's decision. you managed the largest city -- bigger than just about every -- most states. governor nixon declares a state of emergency not for a natural disaster. was that the right call? >> you know, it's hard to second guess a governor in a situation like that. what i would have done -- i have had -- i had three situations similar to this. i would have had a state of emergency, but i would have kept it quiet. i would have kept my police on alert. i would have kept them in places
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where you couldn't see them, be ready in a moment's notice to stop any kind of violence. but maybe not do it in advance. it's hard to second guess him. he had a tremendous amount of violence in august. had he not declared a state of emergency, he would get criticized for not doing it. what i'm concerned about is no one is explaining the grand jury to people. we're not educating people. grand juries are secret to protect innocent people. that's why they're secret. it's a federal crime to release information from a grand jury because a grand jury has a very low burden of proof, probable cause to commit a crime. and this grand jury is under incredible pressure, incredible pressure to indict. i feel sorry for these people, because they know if they walk out of that grand jury room and have not indicted, they may have created a massive riot in their city and maybe throughout the united states.
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to me, that kind of pressure is completely inconsistent with the american criminal justice system and the people who are putting on that pressure should be ashamed of themselves. >> michael, i want to go back to the decision to pre-emptively declare a state of emergency. it's interesting to say the mayor would have done it without telling anybody. that's the criticism. when troops march in with an expectation protest will become pry lent, it creates ugliness and conflict. the concern has become officer safety not to protect and serve the community. >> right. i mean, the mayor speaks about what's unconscionable and what should be indicted. what should be indicted is the criminal justice system that continues to impose undue burdens on african-american, latino and other poor people. number two, the police force is not to be an occupying force. it's there to be there to protect and serve. if you happen to be in the majority population where the police have acted that way, then your expectations follow sue.
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if you have been in the community where i have been, personally subjected to countless and repeated efforts of the police to contain for no legitimate reason, then that's a different story. yes, the sources tell me that attorney general holder is highly upset by governor nixon's particular actions there, because they send the wrong signal. they are not there to protect. duly appropriate forms of protest by people who are citizens. >> let's talk about the larger issue here that i think other communities8 confront. i want to show you this graphic isproportionality of white police forces not look like the communities that they serve. i highlighted six here of the most dramatic. this was a washington post analysis where the proportion of white police officers was much higher than the proportion of the white population. miami gardens, florida, right outside miami, gary, indiana,
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newark, detroit, that's all of those places could become future fergusons. how do you make a police force that looks like the community they serve? >> well, starting with mayor koch, myself, mayor bloomberg, we have tried to make the police force in new york city as proportionate as we can. we go out of our way to do that. i think we do a pretty good job, not a perfect job. but the reality. >> you're not on this list. that's a good thing. >> right. i was glad to see that we ren't. the fact is, i find it very disappointing that you are not discussing the fact that 93% of blacks in america are killed by other blacks. we're talking about the exception here. >> go ahead, michael. >> let me finish. we are talking about the significant exception, 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks. i would like to see the
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attention paid to that that you are paying to this and the solutions so to that. >> can i say this? first of all, most black people who commit crimes against black people go to jail. they are not sworn by the police department as a agent of the state to uphold the law. in both cases, that's a false equivalency that the mayor has drown which has exacerbated which is imbedded in american culture. black people who kill black people go to jail. >> it's hardly -- >> if a jury can indict -- >> it's hardly insignificant. >> it's the trust issue. this is a trust issue. >> it's hardly insignificant. >> i didn't say it was insignifica insignificant. >> it's the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community. >> not at all. >> 93%. >> not at all. the police presence cannot make a distinction between those who are criminals and -- >> what about the poor black child killed by another black
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child? why aren't you protesting? >> i do protest. they go to jail. why don't you talk about the way in which white policen are undercut the abilities of americans to live? >> where don't you cut it down so so many white police officers don't have to be in black airs? >> they don't have to be. it's the matter of the affect of the state occupying the forces. >> how about 70 do 75% of the crime in my city -- >> how about your attitude reinforced the prop attic -- >> this is a debate that -- >> how about you reduce crime? >> when i became mayor, i will do that. >> let's not make this. >> the white police officers wouldn't be there if you weren't killing each other. >> the second -- >> michael -- i'm going to stop it there. michael, mayor, as you can see, this has a lot of tension to it, a lot of heated debate. thank you both for being here. anthony, thank you for coming on. let's hope there's peace in ferguson. are you confident there will be peace in ferguson? >> i'm not. it's just difficult to predict how people are going to respond.
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i'm hopeful that there will be peace in ferguson. i'm prayerful that peace will reign. >> mayor, michael, anthony, thank you all for being here. spirited conversation for sure. >> let me quickly go to the panel. amy, i think he would saw the emotion and the tension that comes out of here. i think it's clear the issue here is trust between the black community and a white police force. >> it's not always just about the police. this is about a bigger, broader cultural issue in terms of communities feeling like they are outsiders and not coected to other parts of america. i think that's what we're seeing here. we are focused on this grand jury, on the specific crime. but it's more than what happened that night. that's why people are turning out. it's as much about the feelings of being misplaced -- >> it's almost as if the shooting is? the background there.
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this is not part of it governor, did you declare a pre-emptive state of emergency that was not about a natural disaster during your two terms? >> i did one or immigration. i think calling in the national guard was a little excessive. now, in a state of emergency, a governor has flexibility do it silently, add more police. but i think we have to focus on the lessons learned. the grand jury, as i understand it, only has about 5% of the information. let the grand jury proceed. let's do something about the diversifying police forces. >> that's the issue. diversing police forces is the issue. >> training our police officers more effectively. and then i think last, do we need all these tanks, all this equipment and all these mill -- >> it makes it worse. >> i think at the same time, let's be calm about this, peaceful protest.
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there were a lot of inequities in our criminal justice system as the professor mentioned. >> joe, are you concerned that d -- there seems to be too much preparation. news media playing a role. >> there's so many things to be concerned about. concerned about a police force in ferguson that was disproportionately white. the criminal justice system obvious to obvio obviously, two -- >> we saw it play out right there. >> i'm concerned right now about this police officer, that there is a burden on the grand jury to not indict. michael said, you can indict a grapefruit. but i would say pgrapefruit wou opportunity than this -- >> that community needs a trial. >> you say they need a trial. they need a trial -- >> and they need a trial.
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>> if this is an indictable offense, if they get the evidence, if they pour through the evidence and if it's justified. this guy -- >> no doubt. >> has constitutional rights as well. >> very quickly, i do think it's all about michael brown. i think that's the focus. i think that's the focus since day one in august when this occurred. one more thing, if people are upset they're not being represented by authorities, change the system. register and vote. >> there you go. in a few minutes, the story that has been grabbing headlines. this is the front page of sunday's -- this sunday's washington post. more accusations against bill cosby. we will be right back. when change is in the air you see things in a whole new way. it's in this spirit that ing u.s. is becoming a new kind of company. one that helps you think differently about what's ahead, and what's possible when you get things organized.
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in this case, our top lean process engineers. so they showed us who does what, when, and where. then we hit them with the important question: why? why put the tools over there? do you really need those five steps? what if you can do it in two? whoo, that's an interesting question. ideas for improvement started pouring out. with a little help from us, they actually doubled their output speed. a hundred percent bump in efficiency. if you just need a loan, just call a bank. but at ge capital, we're builders. and what we know... can help you grow. we will be right back. the fight over keystone. how important is it really? and a discussion on the bill daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money?
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and welcome back. there were many takeaways from the road trip across the swing states ahead of the midterms and one thing i could not help but notice is how cheap gas was. and right now it is cheap because of the slumping e global oil price, and it has huge huge implication s f implications for the u.s. economy an also raises the question that with all of that going on, why is washington so upset with a little pipeline known as keystone? the debate of the e keystone pipeline that would transport canadian crude oil from alberta, canada to, nebraska has become a caricature of itself. >> it is called keystone xl, and
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extra lethal. >> hooray! we can also create jobs not just in the u.s., but in mexico. hooray! it can help to solve some of the immigration problems. >> reporter: and hence the confrontation in january. it was temporarily blocked this week, but a republican senate will likely ap approve it next year, forcing the president to issue his third veto ever. and here is the fight, the oil refineries are getting to the u.s. by barge and train. and the state the department estimates that the pipeline's construction would support 42,000 temporary jobs, but only 35 keystone jobs would be permanent. and whether keystone is approved or not, a u.s. energy boom is already transforming the debate over energy policy. thanks to the domestic shale oil
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boom, gas price s as are at a four-year low. and below $3 in 35 states due to the dumbling oil barrel prices. by 2015, the u.s. is expected to temporarily surpass rush shand saudi arabia as thele world's top oil producers, but the environmentalists argue that there is a cost to growing energy independence, and they say that the shale oil extraction and fracking have a higher cost than traditional oil. i'm joined by daniel yergin who is the popular author of "the quest" and john hofmeister former president of shell oil company. and are we energy independent? >> no, with we are not, but we are moving in a direction that is not projected five years ago.
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>> that is what is so stunning, not expected in five years. is it all shale oil? >> well, that is why sit is a panic for opec because of the incredible growth of the u.s. oil production, because it has take taken them and everybody else by surprise. >> and john, it is not just the u.s. economy and gas prices, but we are in the middle of negotiating a nuclear deal with iran and sanctions against russia, and when it come ts to w they dealt with ukraine, and yet, the price of oil dropping serves as an extra sanction against iran and russia. explain. >> yes, it is an extra sanction, because it reduces the economic clout. i am sure that the russia, and we have seen what happened with the russian ruble and iran is not able to subsidize the programs. >> and they need oil to be at $100 or more dollars a barrel. >> and yes, russia needs more than $100 a barrel and iran more. and the consequence is that the
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people of russia and the people of iran will suffer as a kwons kwens -- as a consequence of the opec meeting coming up thursday, so the reality is that we are short of oil in the world over the next several years as the global growth exceed oil production, and so we need all of the production that we can have and all of the infrastructure that we can build to make sure that the u.s. is taken care of. >> and daniel, are we rushing things too much? i look at the new york times about the story of north dakota and there is not a lot of regulating going on and when the lead regulatory commission in north dakota points out that they are run by elected officials including the governor, that just screams potential conflict of interests. >> and in fact, the oil and the gas industry is highly regulated, but what happened in north dakota has gone from this nowhere to the second largest oil producing state in the k country, and there are 12 departments that do the regulation. >> but you are confident that
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decent regulation is happening? the "time" story didn't make it seem like it is. >> well, in every state, you have rapid growth and whether it is there or where, you have to have the machinery in there and it is stronger than three or four years ago and they have to have it in place to deal with the scale of the activity, because it is happening fast and happening fast in texas which has a well established regulatory system. >> and john, do you believe that the federal government needs to get involved in. >> no, the state government can do it provided they follow what the other states are doing. the federal government has a role offshore and the certain epa requirements, but the states have to take care of the states. i agree with daniel that the rush has been so rapid that it has not caught up yet, but the industry, the industry wants the regulation, and they want a level playing field for all of the actors and the reputation of the industry demands adherence to tough regulations. >> daniel n 2009 when i covered the white house, there was talk of a comprehensive energy bill that was all of the above including nuclear power, and it was close to happening, and
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there was a price on carbon, and is that urgency gone now, because of all of the sudden the shale oil boom? and is that a bad thing? >> well, it is changing because of the confidence and by the way, all around the world, people are looking at the united states, and seeing it as decline and they see it as a new source of trend. >> and any time you have a energies source, it is a strength. >> yes, and in terms of the nuclear, and obviously slowed down, and so we don't quite have an all of the above energy policy, but a kind of to some of the above energy policy. >> and john, are you confident that the oil companies are handle the pricing as carbon? sh. >> yes. many of them are advocating the pricing of carbon. i was heavily involved in the cap and trade when it was put forward by congress and helped with the -- >> there an argument to the republicans to make it happen or no? >> yes, cap and trade generates economic val u you, and the republicans have trashed it unfortunately, and it has a bad reputation, but it is far better than the carbon tax when all is
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said and done, because you can direct the activities to reducing the carbon with the cap and trade system. >> thank you, john hofmeister and daniel yergin, and we will be back in 30 seconds with an american icon who has been accused, bill cosby. as parents we hold our kids' hands when crossing the street so think of the internet as the world's busiest street. teach your kids to surf and post responsibly. they'll be safer with a dedicated crossing guard... the more you know. welcome back and the panel is here, and michael eric dyson has joined us because he is the author of the 2006 book "is bill
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cosby right or has the black middle-class lost its mind? " ""and we will start by discussing the new allegations against bill cosby. michael, the front page of the washington post has a bunch of interviews with new folks this morning, but let me go through the time line of events and how this came up with the rumors of him sexually assaulting women has been around hollywood for years. and it came about because this comic hannibal burris did a standup routine and then it went viral, and then are the was a publicist saying he raped me, and then there was a another woman who said she alleged that he raped her and then model janice dickinson said she alleged that he raped her. and then three more women come forward on november 20th. michael, you wrote this book on cosby, and is this something
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that the world, and whole bunch of people knew about, but a lot of us didn't? >> i think so. it was an open secret to many people, at least the allegations, but as dr. king was fond of quoting, truth will rise again, and you cannot predict the internet, and i wrote a book and mr. cosby was highly irate and a new biography has come out expressing his hatred of me and it is because i challenged him h giving moral lessons of black america, and they were nasty and vicious. >> and this is where it is coming from, because he was basically a preacher, preaching. morality. >> well, he se thris throwing r while living in a glass house and that contradiction is going to get you sunk. >> and amy, you are sitting there, but before oprah, bill cosby did more to bridge black and white america together culturally in a way that seemed to be inclusive and not
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exclusive. >> i'm a child of the '80s. >> and the "cosby show" and my kids watched "little bill." i grew up with "fat albert." and "the cosby show." >> and thele allegations coming out of the university of virginia and the fraternity system there, and it is almost like everyday there is another element here, and female on the panel here, where you feel as if all of these institutions that we are supposed to protect women, and the people that we saw as icons that were out there as, you know, the people we looked up to, it is rt sort of crumbling away, and so i think that it is a broader statement to culturally on why people feel so disconnected and so frustrated with what we want to call the establishment, because it is not doing what it was supposed to do. >> and the expression "say it ain't so, joe" came from
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shoeless joe jackson, and the part of the media not wanting to cover it, joe, is because people don't want to believe it. >> well, he is a transformative figure, and you talk about "cosby show" and i can tell you in the deep south in '67, '68 and '69, and my parents were playing bill cosby records. >> the comedy records, yeah. >> and bill cosby was transformative, and miikka, my co-host -- >> i have heard of her. >> and why aren't people like, you know, more interested in talking about this, and i have heard about the reluctance and he is a transformative fig you, and secondly, 40 years later, it is hard enough to prove a negative in realtime, and now, all of this is coming out 40 years later, and -- >> and the man has legitimate, hannibal burris made off comment as a comedian --
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>> and that is what went viral. >> and that is part of the cull dhacull -- culture that has been challenged. >> and the bell has not been unrung, and he is always going to be known as alleged rapist. >> well, he needs a real crisis manager to come out to not just say, okay, this is discredited, but he needs to come out to face these charges, and secondly, you know, my wife, barbara, when we were in office, a lot of the sexual abuse, and rain and domestic violence, and there is still a judicial system that does not respond adequately to dealing with these problems, and we have to do it on a national basis. >> and there is a difference of the public opinion and the private person, and regardless of the public person and the society's position, and guilt or innocence, but it is part for this part, the private part to
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be brought out. >> and amy says with the part that is going out there, and this, and it does feel as if women have a harder time proving this for some reason. >> and when they are big major figures and institution, and it is very hard and even in this day and age, it is amazing. >> and before we go, i want to congratulate my friend and colleague and mentor to all of us here, tom brokaw receiving the the presidential medal of freedom, and tom, you are going to be on a baseball card and there is a card that goes out of all of those presidential medal of honor winners. and happy thanksgiving, and we wi will see you next sunday, and you know why, because if it is sunday, it is "meet the press." a new form of innovation is taking shape, bringing media and technology together for more people.
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