tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX October 5, 2014 9:00am-10:01am EDT
i'm chris wallace. the ebola patient in dallas is now in cry can condition. is the government doing everything it can. >> every ebola outbreak over the past 40 years has been stopped. we know how to do this, and we will do it again. >> we'll have the latest developments. we'll talk with the man in charge of the response. the judge who personally eescorted the family to new living quarters, and will pose the questions you're asking to the head of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases, dr. anthony fauci. a shake-up at the secret service after a number of
shocking security failures. >> how much would it cost to lock the front door of the white house? >> it's clear our security plan was not properly executed. this is unacceptable, and i take full responsibility. >> what's next for the agency charged with keeping our president safe? we'll have a member of the senate homeland security communityie kellie ayotte, and one of the president obama's former secret service agents, dan bongino. and with grohhing concerns over the scandals, can we trust the federal government to do its job? our sunday panel weighs in, all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. that liberian man who became the first person diagnosed with ebola in the u.s. is now in critical condition in a dallas hospital. meanwhile, at newark, new jersey airport, health officials who met a plane landing saturday
with a sick liberian passenger have now cleared him. we'll talk with two of the government's point men in dealing with the ebola threat in a moment. first fox news senior national correspondent john roberts joins us from atlanta with the latest. john? >> chris, good morning, the fact that thomas eric duncan is now in critical condition is not a good sign. of the other u.s. patients that survafd never game critical. after some serious slip-ups, public health officials say they are making progress to control the virus in dallas. after an exhaustive four-day search, officials announced they had circled the net. >> we have identified in conunions is folks on the ground, nine individuals who we're pretty sure are definite contacts with the source patient. there are about 40 other people
that we can't rule out had contact. >> officials also finally moved to clean up the apartment where duncan's family members were ordered to stay quarantined but not until they had lived with his soiled bedding and clothesing for nearly a week. despite years of preparation, the health department was unable to find a contractor or proper permit to dispose of has ardous waste. that was one of the many balls dropped. the biggest when he went to the hospital and then was sent home, despite telling e.r. workers he had recently arrived from liberia. >> that was not communicated to the whole team. >> they blamed a flaw in the patient sharing data systems. >> the first failures was in liberia. according to officials he marked no asking if he had been in contact an ebola patient. neighbors said he helped are a woman dying from ebola four days
earlier. the white house says screening efforts are adequate, but what what happened he hospital december. >> what we are doing is making sure that hospitals, health workers across the country know that when they see that, what steps to take, how to isolate, and what to do immediately when they see those steps. >> the surveillance system worked as it should yesterday when a man who had become ill was taken off the united airlines flight that just arrived from brussels. it turns out he did not have ebola, just a different type of virus, but chris, ultimately the goal is to prevent ill people from west africa from getting on those planes in the first place. >> chris? >> john roberts, thanks for that. now, let's go to ground zero for a potential ebola outbreak here in the u.s., dallas, texas. dallas county judge clay jenkins is the man leading the emergency response there. on friday he escorted the family
to thomas duncan was staying with to a temporary home for their quarn teen, and he did it without wearing any protective gear. judge jenkins faces the question, would you did i do that? why did you come in close contact with the people who were in closest contact with thomas duncan without any protective gear. honestly did you have no fear being catching ebola? >> chris, i wanted that family to be treated the way i would want my family treated if i were in the hospital and they were worried about my safety and catching this virus. i wanted to treat them as human beings, knolls a space man in a protective suit. i was assured by our top -- state's top health officials and the cdc that it was safe to do it the way i did it, and i know the family appreciated us doing it in that way. i'm glad that we got them out of
a situation where i was unhappy to see that family living in the situation they were living in, and they are now, thanks to someone who stepped up in the faith community at my request, and worked out the details with mayor mike rawlings, now they're at a place i would be satisfied to have my own family. >> you think they were safe and health officials say they were safe, because they're not symptomatic at this point and therefore can't transmit the virus, but it seems to me, and i don't want to put words in your mouth, that you were making a statement about the real threat of ebola. are some people in the dallas area, with all the talk about thomas duncan and about these 40 people you're monitoring. are some people in the dallas area understandably, if perhaps unreasonably panicking? >> there's panic out there amongst people, better there are
a lot of heroes involved in this and there are a lot of people who aren't panicking. you have 2.5 million people in dallas, and the -- it's a mixed bag of how people are dealing with this, but the science is clear, i think a picture is worth 1,000 words, both to louise and the three young men, and also to the public who saw that. these are people made in the image of god. i am not going to expos myself to ebola and take that home to my own family. i'm not going to ask my first responders to do anything i wouldn't do myself. we're going to do everything in our power to keep you safe, and you are safe. >> public health officials, as john roberts just reported are now tracking somewhere between 40 and 50 people who had some kind of sensible -- i mean serious contact with thomas duncan. how are you monitoring them? and how will you monitor them
over what could be two, three weeks? >> the high-risk individual are monitored by cdc or the county, twice a days with temperature checks and full protocol. the low-risk individuals are monitored once a day on a self-check with a -- taking their temperature and once a day by our team. >> judge jenkins, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us today, and for all you're doing in dallas to try to alleviate concerns and take care of the public health situation there. thank you, sir. >> thank you, chris. now, let's bring in one of the nation's top public health officials leading the fight against ebola, dr. anthony fauci, director of institute of already and infectious diseases. welcome. >> thank you, chris. >> let's tart with the one known case, thomas duncan downgraded to critical. what kind of shape is he in?
and what do we know about the treat treatment? >> first of all the most important treatment is good medical care, because one of the areas where people get into trouble, they have dirhea, they're vomiting, they lose fluid. getting ivs, acute critical care is what we have. with regard to experimental drugs, they're all experimental. zmapp is just not available. the crux and the critical sure of caring for this person is good intensive-care medicine. >> do we know what shape he's in? >> i don't know personally, but the hospital is saying in critical condition. he went from critical to serious and now they're saying he's back in critical. this is what we're hearing from the hospital. we talked with judge jenkins about the 50 people that public health officials are monitoring. to the best of your knowledge, have any of them shown any signs of developing ebola symptoms? confide frankly what are the
chances that one or monday will come down with ebola? >> to my knowledge, no, but i don't have privy knowledge of that. it's important, the crux of preventing an outbreak in dallas or any place else is to do exactly what they're doing, monitoring patients on a twice a day for basis. if they get febrile, you isolate them. the questions about the chances, we don't know, but i would not be surprised if someone who was very close contact actually comes down with ebola. the encouraging thing is that person, that small brup of risk people are being very closely monitored. if they start to develop symptoms, they will be put under the circumstance of not being ability to spread it on other people. >> let's talk about some of the question that is people are asking. these are the questions some you may think are sensible, some
maybe not, but these are the questions that folks are asking. british airlines have suspended ahn fligh all flights to and from the areas facted in africa. should the u.s. do that? and should we impose any visa ban? >> no, in my opinion absolutely not, chris. when you start closing off countries like that, there's a real danger of making things worse. you isolate them, you can cause unrest in the country. it's conceivable that governments could fall if you isolate them completely. importantly you can't get supplies in and out. they need help. they need equipment and they need health care workers to comes in. >> forgive me. i've haired that argument. you could send those things in without taking thousands of passengers out. >> that's true, but experience is when you close such a country, you create such stress and fear and amplify the problem.
so i think any health care person will agree with me that that's not a good idea to completely block off the country. >> but there's another side of this. how effective is the screenings? since these new guidelines were imposed in liberia in july when the outbreak started, 10,000 people have flown out of the liberia to other countries. only two of those people have been subjected to additional screening. they're just screened for a fever. they could have a fever from a cold, a flu, whatever. two of 10,000. i want to show you this pictures of a man, an american doctor, who came into atlanta airport wearing a hazmat suit. on the back it says cdc is lying. he says when he arrived from guatemala, the only questions he was asked are, are you carrying tobacco or alcohol? and how effective is the screening? >> the best way to avoid someone
getting on a plane who has ebola is to do the exit screening. you get your temperature taken and a questionnaire. obviously you're not going to be 100% risk-free. >> but 2 of 10,000? >> i'm not sure what you mean 2 of 10,000. >> there were 10,000 people who have left liberia and have been screened since july 26, only two versus subjected to additional screening. >> they got on the plane and they were not symptomatic. you're not going to spread it. >> would you you think more than two would have a fever? i'm not saying ebola, but a fever, period. >> of course, they wouldn't have gotten on the plane. if you had fever for any other reason. if you go to monrovia, and somebody has the gun and you have a fever, you're not getting on the plane. if you have symptoms or fever, you will not be allowed on the plane. what are the chances that
illegal immigrants are going to come over our porous southern border with ebola or the terrorists will purposely send someone here using ebola as a bioterror weapon. >> two plots to the question. i wouldn't be worrying about illegal immigrants coming from southern borders when we have an issue right now with ebola in west africa. that's a hypothetical that's very far-fetched. as far as terrorism, nature right now, is the worst bioterrorist. i'm worried more about the natural evolution in west african twhan i am about a terrorist. >> i spode if you're going to do a bioterror weapon, ebola is not the most effective. >> if i was a bioterrorist, that would not by mea choice. it would be inefficient. nature does it much worse than a bioterrorist. >> how long do bodily fluids stay dangerous? if i'm sweating and tough this tabletop, how long are the dangerous germs going to stay there? >> we don't know exactly how.
it's difficult to test that under the circumstances. we do know, a it's a relatively fragile virus. if you take something like anthrax, which is a microorganism with a spore, it can be days, weeks, a long time. we certainly don't know it's minutes, because people can get it from fine recalls with touching the body. the issue is by touching things that are contaminated, the experience with 38 years of ebola is it is rarely, if ever, transmitted in a way whether you might touch something two days later and wind up getting infected. the experience tells us even though it's a hypothetical that it could be spread that way, people always think of door knobs and things, by experience that's not happened. >> you and other officials keep saying flatly there's no wray that ebola can be spread through the air. it has to be direct contact with bodily fluids, but michael oster hoop, the director of the
research at the university of minnesota wrote this, and we put it up on the screen, the second possibility is someone that viralologists are definitely consideration in private, that an ebola virus could mu tway to be transmissionible through the air. the current hyper evolution is unprecedented. there's been more human to human transmission in the past four months than most likely occurred in the last 500 to 1,000 years. what he seems to be saying is ebola is already doing things we didn't think it could do. how solid is the science? >> i'm not loathe to discuss it publicly and will discuss it with you. certainly hypothetically anything can happen. if you look at the track record of viruses, viruses mutate and change. this kell more or less virulent. it's -- to make it transmitted
by a way it never transmitted before. is it theoretically possible? yes. is it likely? no. finally, a little over a minute left. what do you want to say to our viewers -- i don't have to tell you, i'm sure you come in contact with people who are scared. it's a deadly disease, it has no cure. what do you say? >> to the people who are scared, we don't take lightly your fear, we respect it, we understand it, but we have to get our actions and our policies based on scientific evidence. we know if you do isolation, contact tracing and appropriate treatment, you will not have an outbreak. there may be another person that will come to the united states with ebola, we may have another situation like that, but because of our health care system and our ability to do the contact tracing and isolate, we don't have an outbreak. west africa is not the united states. unfortunately those people there, because of the weaknesses of their health system, are having an outbreak. that won't happen.
it could be we'll see another case, but we won't have an outbreak. >> dr. fauci, thank you, thank you for tang time out of your very busy schedule to answer questions today. >>i good to be with you, chris. a breakout of the secret service and other failures, are we starting to lose faith in our government? our sunday group joins the conversation, and just go to facebook or twitter @foxnewssunday. we may use your question on the air. he world. so why does that matter? well, america faces tough foreign competition every day. facing the highest tax rate makes it harder to keep up. harder to upgrade equipment. harder to keep american jobs competitive. to level the playing field, we have to update our outdated tax codes. and get washington to help america stay competitive. join us at fairreform.com
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we retain confidence in the sophisticated medical infrastructure of the united states of america to respond to meet the needs of those individuals that have contracted ebola, and to put protocols in place that will prevent an ebola epidemic from striking the united states. white house spokesman josh earnest trying to reassure the public the obama administration has the ebola threat under control. it's time for our sunday group. brit hume, julie pace who covers the white house for the associated praise. syndicated columnist george will and fox news political analyst juan williams. julie, this ebola scares comes on top of the shocking security breach involving the secret service, the isis rise, which president obama says surprised
him, problems of either incompetent or corruption they i.r.s., and the v.a. do the white house officials you talk to worry about people losing confidence in the competent of this administration? >> i think they do. i think that they can trace this back even beyond these incidents that you laid out that are more recent. we have seen this for several years, when you look at polls, most americans it's upwards of 60, 70% think at the country is headed in the wrong direction. that's more than economic numbers. it's a sense that the government can't handle major problems. the white house would point to steps that they're taking. you heard about dr. fauci talk about some of those things, the director of the secret service replaced relatively quickly, but if you're an american looking at all these things that are happening, you can't help but question the government's
ability to manage them. >> we got question foss that. we got questions from twitter from jason brown -- have no faith in obama administration doing anything important. won't close border or quarantine country, so how are they protecting? brit, how do you answer jason when it comes to ebola or the secret service when it comes to the basic functions? >> it's not just these fail, of scandal and incompetent. one is also the response to them, or one would say lack of the. jeh johnson was being interviewed by brit baier at some length. his answers were einvestigations and bland assurances that everything is being done and so on. i don't think that works.
i think what's needed at a time like this when a government is going to respond in a competent and effective way is brutal candor and a sense right away that things are being done right away. jewel what pierson, she hangs around in her job, the morning she testifies, the white house is saying we have full confidence she was gone by the end of the day. >> or eric shinseki, who some say testified with the passion of someone ordering chinese dinner. >> exactly. while the public is alarmed, people in the administration are not particular alrmd. you had that with the irs as well, repeated assurances from senior officials. sometimes something like this will happen and you'll get an early assurance, but with this administration it goes on and on and on and communicates the sense the not only things are wrong, but we're not fixing
them. >> of course this ends up going to the top man and some conservatives are even comparing barack obama to jimmy carter and the famous malaise speech from 1979. juan, is that fair? >> my gosh, what julie said is right, we've had polls i think more more than a decade when you look at right track/wrong track, people thing they're going in the wrong track, that there's problems in society. but we're approaches the stretch run of the midterm eye selections. employment is down, stocks are up. i think that the united states is, you know, health care, obamacare is not working as a campaign issue for the republicans. i think if you go beyond that, we're in the middle east fighting isis in the way that republicans suggested -- >> you're saying this is all politics? >> i think there's no gop wave, it's a very close election, and people are saying can we blame
ebola on obama? zours the secret service, as if he would put his own family -- the gop brand is in trouble, congress is in trouble. >> he asked you a different question. >> i answered the question. >> he didn't ask about the gop -- >> i know, but when you talk about the crisis of confidence, we've had an ongoing it crisis in confidence -- >> you thinks it's worsened. >> do i think at the moment it's worse? >> things are about the same. >> if i look at the polls, which is what i do, i see the polls indicate that in fact the level of people saying we're going the wrong direction is about what it's always been. >> what about the level of people say the government is not competent. >> people always say that. the social security checks go out -- >> they don't always say that. >> and yet people say i hate government. we all say it. >> they say that, because government is not competent. frankly it's not competent under
republicans or democrats. it is always a monopoly and monopolies are not disciplined by market forces. teasing this segment, you said do we have faith in government? you asked, can we trust the government to do its job? what isn't its job nowadays? it's fine-tuning the curriculum of our students k through 12. it's monitoring sex on campuses, it's deciding how much ethanol we should put in our gas tanks. it has designed our light bulbs and worried sick over the name of the washington football team. this is a government that doesn't know when to stop. the distilled essence, and here i get partisan my friend -- >> i will say that's a small government argument, and i appreciate it. >> it's the distilled essence is that government is benign -- that is disinterested force, that's false. and b, it is stocked with experts who are really gifted at doing things.
republicans do it always. 2k78s do it in domestic policy. the republicans brought us nation building and regime change. a common theme is the excessive faith in the skills of government. >> now that we have brought the politics in, julie, are they worried this could play a role in the it november mid terms? >> i think they worry it could contribute to perhaps low turnout. i don't think they don't see this polling that ebola or secret service is showing up in how people affecting it how people vote, but if you have americans that worry that will keep them from voting at all, and a lot of these races, particularly on the senate side, if democrats will be able to hold their seats, they need large turnouts. i want to double back, because we have a little time left. juan, events have consequences, like hurricane katrina and the poor response, had an impact appeared the shadow on the rest of the bush administration. don't things like a person being
able to get in the front door of the white house, somebody shooting seven times at the white house and they didn't find out about it until the weekend under the janitors started clearing up, doesn't that have an impact on people's faith in government? >> it does. george made the point too that people think that government is not always acting competentlily, and there's often a lot of defense. they give you these vacuous statements. >> mistakes were made. that's my favorite. >> but to say that's not political is where i think we go a step too far. as george said, you see this on the part of republicans and democrats. the problem here is the deterioration of faith in american institutions that i worry about, because i am someone who believes in democracy. >> final word, george. >> the last time there was a sustained surge in confidence in government's competent was under ronald reagan who said the government will do less, but
it's going to do it right. >> but what did he do? >> won the cold war. >> grew the size of government. >> we're not going to relitigate the reagan years, though it would be an interesting conversation. some of us were around for it. sorry, julie. we'll see you later. how confidence are you in how the government is handling the ebola outbreak? do you feel safe? let me know, and use the #fns. a series of stunning breaching forces the director of the secret service to step down. we'll speak more with one of the president's former agents and kellie ayotte, next. creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country,
the secret service is the key line of defense between the president and any threat to his life, but a shocking series of lapses from a fence jumper making it inside the white house to a security guard with a gun on the president's elevator led to the agency's director being forced out this week, as well as plans for a full-scale investigation. joining us to discuss where the secret service goes from here, in new hampshire senator kelly ayotte, a member of the homeland security committee, and here in washington, dan bongino, one of the president obama's former agent, who's written a book "inside the bubble." what have you heard over the
last few weeks, do you still have full p. >> the rank and file, yes, the upper-level management, absolutely nothing. i think they have failed the men and women and the results of frightening. >> if you've got people on the front line who as the quote goes, willing to take a bullet, but they're being failed by the top management, does that create problems in the security for the president? >> of course. and you're seeing the results of it. i've said to a number of folks you can't view these in a vacuum. it's not just that the dog wasn't released. these all fit into a larger management, this insulated cabal at the top, and you're seeing a near mutiny with the agents. they feel like they have no one to go to and feel like they've abandoned. >> we're going to pick up on that. i'm going to bring in senator
ayot, same question, about the rank and file, but also the top management. is the agency capable at this time selfprotecting the president? >> well, we appreciate the agents themselves and their brave service. i think there is clearly a leadership problem. it goes beyond the head of the agency. it goes to the culture of the agency, the command structure, and if you look at these incidents, chris, there seems to be a training issue. also there needs to be a rule of engagement, and astonishing lack of attention to detail that seems to need to be the focus. i think this needs a fresh view like the v.a. and an independent review. >> dan, you talked about a cabal at the top, a mutiny of agency. >> there's a small group of management that group up together, let's say, and the problem is they are married to the way things used to be done.
the threat footprint has changed. world has evolved. almost that they've used the secret service -- and there are good managers there, but almost like a job search service for their secondary careers. the problem is the rank-and-file agents feel the allegiance is not to them, but somebody who the dhs secretary, say, that they could go into business later on, and it's created distrust. >> i want to pick that up and bring sonar ayotte into it. a number of people say one of the key turning points was in 2003 when the secret service was moved from elite agent inside the treasury department to the department of homeland security where it's one in a number of fife doms. the question is how big a problem is that, that it's now in a different agencies, and a
number of agencies in an undefined department and the fact that the responsibility is split, not only is it protect, but investigating cybercrimes and a bunch of other things. >> the dhs has suffocated the secret service. the joke the agents used to say among themselves is we were a big fish in a small pond, now your a gummy in an ocean. secondly the dual mission it's a vestigial -- i loved investigations, but chris, there's just not enough money in a growingly sparse taxpayer environment for them to handle these dual missions. listen, we're in an error-free environment with protection. you cannot screw up once. there's not must have money, time or resource to handle this dual mission anymore. >> but senator ayotte, jeh johnson, the man in charge of this department, including the secret service, was on special
report on friday, and here's what he had to say on this very issue. >> i think that it makes a tremendous amount of sense for the secret service to be under the umbrella of a department that has a homeland security counter-terrorism law enforcement mission. >> senator, is secretary johnson wrong? 1. >> well, he's not wrong given the threats we face around the world and some of those could be directed at the president as the commander in chief. however, i do think as we evaluate this, we need to look at whether that bureaucracy is hampering the primary purpose of the secret service. i think that's something the committee should absolutely evaluate to determine whether or not there is enough focus, going back to the issues i mentioned originally, where is the training? where is the command trier? the culture within the agency? i think that would have to be evil waited, but clearly they
have to defend the president in a context of the threats we face around the world. that's what's so troubling with what happened here. this was an obvious scenario of a fence jumping. what about a more sophisticated scenar scenario? >> as someone who is on the committee that oversees secret service, you don't get to confirm the appointee, that is a decision by the president. do you have an idea for the replacement as the head of secret service? >> i don't at this point, but i do think it needs to be a fresh view of what's happening at the secret service, not someone who is ingrained in the culture there existing now. as dan mentioned, in terms of hierarchy, so i hope that is what the president will consider, just like he did with the v.a. >> we also had this remarkable scene wednesday, where white house spokesman josh earnest expressed full confidence in secret service director julie
pierson in the morning and hours later said he sways out. >> she's more than qualified to do her job. she is somebody who has a difficult responsibility. >> over the last several days we've seen recent and accumulating reports raising questions, and the president concluded that new leadership of that agency was require. >> again that is a difference between thursday morning and thursday afternoon -- or rather, wednesday. dan, is there a basic lack of accountability inside the secret service? >> there is with the upper-level managed. the ombudsman program, chris, to give you a tangible evidence, where they can go to air concerns -- the program is a disaster. you would see people in that program and information would slip out, so you really weren't anonymous. they could use an outside independent op putsman and should take the inspections
program out from within the secret service, so the agents will be like they have a voice when they see an obvious security failure. >> senator, i want to switch subjects s leon panetta has a new book out, in which he blasts president obama for failing to push iraq to keep a residual force of u.s. troops there after 2011. he writing this -- those on our side -- talking about the pentagon -- those on our side viewed the white house as so eager to rid itself of iraq that it was willing to withdraw rather than lock in arrangements that would preserve our influence and interests. now, president obama says that this was iraq's decision, knolls hit. what do you make of panetta's remarks, all how big a role did that play that we're now facing a threat from isis? >> i think secretary panetta, i
have respect, and the military commander clearly wanted to leave a residual force that. the claim that it was within the iraqis does not withstand scrutiny. i think we have a problem where the president's foreign policy is being trapped by his campaign rhetoric. i'm very fearful as we look at the current military strategy that it is surrounding the november elections and he won't have the resolve to follow through with what needs to be done in a sustained effort to destroy isis, and we're about to repeat the same thing with afghanistan, which secretary panetta also mentions in his book as well. are you suggesting that after the november election and acting tough and talking tough, that he will pull back from confronting isis? >> i'm very concerned about that, chris, and his resolve in this regard. i think that's something that as a member of the armed services committee, we've got to stay
focused on. look at what happened in libya. we engaged in air strikes, and then none of the follow-on in terms of securing the weapons, and obviously whether happened with our embassy. we need to ensure this isn't just surrounding what we're doing now. he has made clear this is going to take a sustained effort. he has to be prepared to have the resolved to engage in that effort to destroy isis. otherwise we're going to be in a situation where we have a safe haven again where attacks can be launched against us. >> senator ayotte, dan bongino, thank you both for coming in and talks with us. >> thank you. when we come back, the sunday group digs in. did president obama ignore advice from his top military officials? is that why we now face the threat from isis?
would not have matter. they didn't want troops in iraq. they weren't willing to take the steps needed. state department spokesman pushing back on former defense secretary panetta's charge president obama could have pushed the iraqis to allow u.s. troops to stay in iraq, but that the president wanted out. we're back now with the panel. julie, panetta makes a number of tough charges in his new book about the president's policies, says not only that president obama should have forced the iraqis to leave residual forces, but didn't want to. he also said it sends a terrible message on drawing a red line, then fail to enforce it. how do white house officials react to this man, who the president appointed, first to be cia director, and then to be the pentagon chief, saying these kinds of things about his former boss. >> it puts the white house in an incredibly tough spot. leon panetta is widely
respected. >> and a democrat. >> someone the many obviously trusted deeply. you won't see a lot of pushback personally. it certainly irks them in the context we're in, as this issue on iraq and what happened there, you know, it is problematic for them. it is true that the iraqis would not give u.s. troops immunity to stay in the country. it is also true, though, that the president of the united states was looking to get out of iraq. after it was clear there would be no deal, he sold it as a fulfillment of a political promise. and what panetta said is -- >> he could have -- we were giving aid. there were a lot of levers he could have pull to force the malaki government to cave in, but frankly was very willing to take no for an answer. >> and once it became clear that
the parliament would not approve troops, and he floated the idea where he could agree immunity and that did not fly with the oobama administration. >> the first defense secretary robert gates, he also wrote a book in which he says that the president never believed in his troop surge in afghanistan, and from the start only cared about getting out of there. so this is not between panetta and gates, very flattering stuff to say about our commander in chief. >> it's not, but the president could counter, another description of what i've done is keeping my campaign promise. he did compare on getting out of both countries. he could in fact say what i've done is i had a mandate to do. panetta says we didn't leave enough people to preserve our interests and influence. i think a lot of people say what influence did we have? what influence could we have had with still 10,000 or 15,000
troops there? and what is our real interest in the middle east at this point, anyway? there is a consistent theme, though, you're hearing from some of the president's closest national security advisers, i think you would agree that panetta and gates are about as close as it gets for, what, the first four, five years of president obama's term. you heard it from a critic, senator ayotte, that the president cared more about the campaign promises about about hi policy and what he did than what some of the trusted advisers said was the best for the country. >> these are good people, these are for my money being around washington, these are the guys you want? charge. so i trust them, find them admirable people, but i will say this, i think there's more to foreign policy than military or intelligence options. their job is to present the president with reasonable steps
he could stay, the military portfolio and intelligent portfolio. they're economic options, diplomatic options. i think these gentlemen, as they're selling their books put on you -- i told the president i would have done this, but arming the syrian rebels? that's a very iffy deal. >> wait a minute, so we're not doing it now? >> we're doing it now, because things have changed. >> for the better? >> for the worse. >> so it was a terrible idea before thinks got in bad and now we're relying them to take down isis? >> if i had president hume on the form, with, do you want to harm these guys? do we know they're in fact not al qaeda reinvented? >> the point is that is the president's policy. >> no, because now we are going after isis per se, and we know
the rebels, the people we can identify opposed to isis. >> that's a different scenario. >> maybe. >> i would add to this note, chris. i think it's beginning to look more and mosh as if our effort is inspired by politics and a nears election as was the previous efforts in iraq. the bombing campaign appears to be anything but really intense. maybe it can't be, because we lack the intelligence to select the proper targets and proper number. it does not appear to have greatly retarded isis's progress. it looks like a quite mild bombing campaign undertaken for the purpose of appearing to do something toward the goal, the president says, of ultimately taking down isis. my sense is after he gets past this election, his effort to take down eye says, i don't think it's something he deeply believes in. i don't think he could possibly believe in the approach he's taken, will subside as kelly ayotte fears.
>> you think it will just disappeared -- >> first of all i think militarily the plan is so affect that it probably can't do very much. i don't think the president particular wants it to. >> how -- with the -- before kelly ayotte, i hadn't heard that claim before, this is sort of the october or september surprise, and it will disappear, it will go away after the election. is that something -- >> it's not something i have heard. you have to look at this in the text of obama being reluctant to takes military action, to take this on and abandon it, i don't see that as being something it would do, because i think it took so much to take that step in the first place. he would have much preferred to go after the group without taking military action. i think if they are going to be effective, they certainly will have to keep a bombing campaign and perhaps step up the targets. >> but remember this is the president who at west point
announced the afghanistan troop surge in one sentence and then the next sentence said when we're going to get out. it's not beyond him to set limits on how involved he's going to be. >> i think it will be interesting to watch whether the arab states continue to be involved. for them to back off immediately would be troubledsome. >> george, you're shaking your head like it's a fool's errand. >> there's bombing and then there's bombing. we bombed iraq intermittently, to no particular effect. i recommend that people read something in "the washington post" as andrew basovich. he lost a son in iraq. he's entitled to speak. he makes the point since 1980 we have bombed or occupied or invaded or all three 14 islamic nations. that's make just about enough, and he does worry there's something called threat inflation at work here, we need
to be more clear-sighted how much those guys in their pickup trucks with the machines ref vetted threaten the country. a that happy note, thank you, panel. we'll see you next week. we'll be back with a very special guest. your customers, our financing. your aspirations, our analytics. your goals, our technology. introducing synchrony financial, bringing new meaning to the word partnership. banking. loyalty. analytics. synchrony financial. enagage with us. she loves to shop online with her debit card. and so does bill, an identity thief who stole mary's identity, took over her bank accounts, and stole her hard earned money. unfortunately, millions of americans just like you learn all it may take
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last night they lost 2-1 to the san francisco giants in the longest playoff game in history, and they now trail the five-game series two games to none. we've been counting on our lucky jason wert garden gnome to root for the nationals, but now we're calling in reinforcement. one of the at the present time -- from -- is here today to help us urge on our team -- go nats! that's it for today. have a great week. we'll see you next "fox news sunday." okay. go. go nats!
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