in iraq, for example, first of all, the center of gravity of the whole effort in iraq is in baghdad, it's iraqi politics. those have to be inclusive if you can have a sustainable set of achievements there because rolling back the islamic state without having forces that have legitimacy in the eyes of the people, the sunni arab community of iraq which became alienated, once again, under the previous prime minister, that just won't work. so you've got to have sunni arab forces that are ready to hold areas once they're cleared, and we really haven't yet had to contend with that in a big way, though certainly tikrit was such an operation, and that does seem to be being held now by forces that are quasi legitimate in the eyes of people. but when they take back ramadi and certainly mosul, there has to be a plan for that whole force. >> rose: what is your assessment today of the willingness of the sunni tribes to participate against i.s.i.s.? >> my understanding is that they are quite willing. what they're waiting for is the authorization for baghdad, in some cases for us to provide additio

iraq, on a map, yes, we still see the lines. but there is no more iraq. this is divided up into groups now. the sunni controls a region, the shiites and isis controls a big piece of that now. is-- does that mean we should really allocate that? should we say that this is a new region? should we accept that or. >> i think in a sense what we have to do is recognize that what we have are these three enclaves, or three stateless. i don't think it is going to change formally. but the kurds are essentially self-governing in the north. the shiites are self-governing in the south and the bad land in the middle that isis controls. and i think again when you look at syria, the lesson to learn from that is, if you did end up, imagine your wildest dream come true, the assad government which we are battling, does get toppled. what is goes to happen then. you are going to have chaos. the the alawites will try to create their own little state, the kurds, it will turn into an intensified civil war with probably these enclaves just like you have in iraq. >> trevor: one of

the same thing in iraq. they defeated saddam hussein, removed him from power but what is happened after that? the problem is victory can be achieved but we have to have plans after victories. do we have any plan? what will happen to the middle east after we defeat, if we defeat the islamic state? no one can tell us about the future syria. no can tell is the future of iraq. how can we create persistence with this yet, this is the most important thing. >> it you mention some external vulnerabilities of the islamic state. the question i think was about internal vulnerabilities. do you see anything inside the administration that might weaken the organization question i. >> yes. internal and next are not related. that is almost impossible. usually the internal vulnerability is defeated by the outside. this is the most important important, yes it is foldable inside because as i mentioned because of the lack of government. because the people are not involved, they're not determining their future. this is the proble

commander in iraq. he had already done two long tours of duty in the country, but what he sees this time around almost four years after the war started was disturbing and different. >> first day, full day in command was traveling around baghdad to see the situation there, which frankly was really, really quite horrifying. i had known these neighborhoods as thriving, bustling prosperous areas in some cases they are completely blown up. the people moved out. in one case, it was almost metaphor, literally tumble weed blowing down this empty iraq needed an influx of american troops to secure the peace. petraeus had a plan to do just that. >> do you mind if i ask what you do for a living? >> and it started with this. >> the only way to secure the people, the only way to ensure security is to live with them, to be in the neighborhood 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. >> the general says this tactic was the exact opposite of what the united states had been doing in the prior months, pulling out of the cities and

>> kirkuk is part of iraq, so is kurdistan region part of iraq. right now it is and kirkuk is a kurdistani city, a kurdistany land with people other than kurds in it - turkman, arabs, christians - it has different checks. and kurdish means only kurds live in it, that's not the case. >> a number of others say it was their home. iraqi kurds were suppressed by hussain, but after he fled, many were displaced and some arabs say they were displacing access by kurds. some denied access to homes, and other arabs insist they are not welcome. the kurds were victimized. iraqis? >> i believe, and i have said this publicly and in private, we are totally against any oppression of a single person or group of persons. i have not seen the report of human rights watch. i wish if they had written their report they could come to me. if there is atrocity, i will join them in condemning it with them. sometimes you get reports probably depending on conversation in one way or another. they are not happy with the situation. like i said. we have more than 500,000 i.d.p.s i

and, yes, he was in american custody during the iraq war. al baghdadi has shown his face publicly only once. last year when he gave a sermon to his followers. but back when the u.s. had him under lock and key, he was seen as, believe it or not, a man who could be trusted. >> the americans seem to see abu bakr as someone who could keep the prison quiet. there are 24 camps within the sunni side of camp bucca, he was allowed open access to all of them. >> he wasn't considered from everything that we know now a high-level detainee, and he was allowed to, you know, lead prayers, he was allowed to give religious lessons. >> the future leader of isis was giving other inmates lessons on islam. those inmates were jihadists or former ba'athists, henchmen of saddam, or simply common criminals. >> it most assuredly was a jihadist university. unquestionably. >> put them all together in the baking heat of southern iraq, with al baghdadi, a man who dreamed of a new kind of terror, it was a recipe for isis. >> they were meeting, they were playing soccer tog

their involvement in both iraq and syria, where they have been? themorell: they were original savior of assad, so in the fall of 2012, assad was in a very difficult situation. runningntum was not against him, his own people were talking about the and being near. the iranians came in early 2013, and a very significant way brought shia militia they had trained in iraq, brought has ball in from lebanon, and they propped him up -- has ball a -- hezbollah in from lebanon, they propped him up any significant way, so they have been his savior in iraq. -- they have been his savior. in iraq, the shia militia there have been the most effective fighting force in protecting areas, and sharia taking back shia areas that isis had taken. they are not going to go any further than that. charlie: gates said on this program, one of the things i have not heard anybody talk about is the potential for what the western services, including the cia, could do on the ground in terms of infiltrating, sabotage, and other activities to make life harder for isis. there are a lo

of them from iraq. because that's the way you get around. so high risk, and you see it finished and it's just a lens, section 60, for every aspect of a recent conflict. you walk around as part with your eyes open. you see it played out every day. there's a question back there. >> i am curious to know, are your reasons for writing these two books, did you come it may be a painful question but did you have a personal interest in writing either one of these books? >> the question is a reason for writing these books. i hate to admit it, but the first, the history of arlington cemetery, i never would've thought to write the history of arlington in 100 years. i was talking to my agent about projects, and it was his idea. he said, you should write a history of arlington. no one has ever done it. i walked myself when i become and again researched the next day. there's an example. i have friends buried at arlington. i live at the time 10 minutes from the cemetery. i was over there all the time. it was an example

would fight again in iraq. this is the president speaking in june of 2014. >> i think we always have to guard against -- let me repeat what i've said in the past, american combat troops are not going to be fighting in iraq again. amy: just last month, president obama reversed course in afghanistan, halting the scheduled withdrawal of u.s. troops fighting in the nation's longest war. >> first, i decided to maintain our current posture of 9800 troops in afghanistan through most of next year, 2016. their mission will not change. our troops will continue to pursue those two now tasks that i outlined earlier -- training afghan forces and going after al qaeda. amy: in addition to the wars in iraq, syria and afghanistan, the u.s. continues to carry out drone strikes across the globe from pakistan to yemen to somalia. to talk more about the endless war, we begin today's show with phyllis bennis. she is a fellow at the institute for policy studies. she's written several books, including most recently, "understanding isi

then we were distracted by iraq. now, the islamic state controls territory much closer to europe with a porous border with turkey where president erdogan has been playing a vicious game with i.s.i.s. personally, i'm disappointed. i think we have to remove i.s.i.s.'s control of this territory and we have to do it sooner tha rather than later. >> rose: i'm going to peter then matt. peter, the president says essentially the strategy he conceived is what his best military advisors tell him. there may be dissent beenwin the military, i don't know, you would know better. but the president is firm saying, if you have a better plan, present it. >> part of what he says when he listens to critics, they say, you should do more this and that. he is saying i'm doing this and that, you just don't hear it or acknowledge it. the other choice is boots on the ground. he presented almost a buynary choice. for critics that say there are degrees that don't necessarily lead you into a ground force of 100,000 troops. you know, he has been

iraq is completely dismembered. iraq is a failed state now. this is the problem. do you believe the americans greatest superpower, the most sovereign, the most actual modern power cannot actually fix erratic? cannot create a democracy there? cannot create coexistence among the people and what is happening is the opposite, dividing them, this is sunni in this is shia? this is the problem. the american invasion of the middle east, iraq in particular, theting that environment, best environment for the islamic state and for al qaeda to continue their savagery, their terrorism, their brutalism against the people of that region. amy:b, thank you for being with us, author of the new book, "the islamic state: the digital caliphate." long time journalist who served as editor and chief of the london-based daily al-quds al-arabi for 25 years. now runs the rai al-youm website. he recently wrote an article for salon titled, "america enabled radical islam: how the cia, george w. bush and many others helped create isis." we will have part two of our discussion later this week. w

of course what happened was the 2003 war in iraq. the overthrow of saddam's government allowed a shia government to come to power in iraq. which has, you know, and many of those people in their government had long-standing relationships with iran. and so the relationship between the two countries has improved dramatically. pause of that. since then, it has been a mixed picture. some of the things that iran has done in iraq have been very destructive. some of the things they've done have been very constructive at times. but that's, that's the nature of foreign policy. the back and forth of it. but i think the bigger question is whether it's realistic to imagine a world in which iran has no influence in iraq, a country with which it has hundreds of years of relations, of which, with which it has many common cultural links. i think that's not really a realistic strategy. actually, as far as the united states is concerned, iran and the united states have many common interests in iraq when it comes to fighting isis, when it comes to maint

crisis was al qaeda anti-iraq - - in iraq and through november primary target of the united states. so now they just changed the brand name and marketing and strategy has evolved in a sophisticated manner that makes them all the greater to defeat. so it is the work of history going back to the early origins, a the founder of the feast the jailbird that went into iraq with the coalition campaign first he spent time in iraq and set up this organization which did not start as the al qaeda franchise but became one after a series of spectacular attacks targeting the jordanian embassy with sue wanted to give that average reader that we all have targets on their backs the would fly planes in the buildings into whatever they can to lead and humiliate and frankly every civilized country in the world so this is of broad history but it culminates with the profiles of who these guys are and what they want. >> host: can you go into what you describe very effectively in the of book of the social media and the internet campaign? keeping in mind the question of whether or not the extent to which is

you need a viable fighting force in both places, iraq and syria. you get one in iraq by having a political solution in baghdad that gives the sunnis a future stake in their country. once you have that, sunni tribes will fight for us against isis. and they will be effective. in syria, the fighting force is the syrian army. we need to get them focused on fighting isis. the way you do that -- charlie: you've got to take off the head. mr. morell: you have to take off the head and resolve the assad problem, although he may need to stick around while you make that transition. on the military front, and you could start this even beforehand, relaxing rules of engagement. more special forces on the ground to provide advice, forward air controllers on the frontline to call in precision airstrikes. charlie: advisers embedded at the battalion level? mr. morell: mm-hmm. charlie: but how do you convince the iranians, the russians, the turks, the saudi's all to come together with some idea that this has to stop? the other possibility is, what surprises me is that

. ♪ z >> the united states has run thousands of air strikes in syria and iraq. france and russia are now in the war. nato member turkey is involved up to its eye teeth, but as he saw in the russian jet shootdown, not always with the same priorities as its assumed allies. stop me when you think we have reached something that sounds like world war 3.0. it's the inside story. ♪ >>> welcome to "inside story." i'm ray suarez. no, i'm not suggesting that this conflict is as extensive or threatening as the total war fought in every corner of the globe in world war ii. but when the list of combatants in iraq and syria is as long as this, it makes both the war on the ground and diplomacy at the bargaining table extremely complex. exhibit a, turkey's recent shootdown of a russian military jet in the skies over syria. turkey says it warned the jet repeatedly. russia denies that took place. turkey has refused to apologize, russia has laid on economic sanctions. al jazeera america claimed responsibility for the paris attacks. france is fighting back hard. >> we would like

this is about learning the lessons of iraq. we have now this architecture of the joint intelligence committee chaired by a very senior official who has that independent view. i cleared every word of my statement very clearly with them. on the issue of civilian casualties, which is important, i believe the truth of the matter is this. in a year and three months of the action we've taken in iraq there have been no reports of civilian casualties. we believe we have some of the most accurate weapons known to man. i think extending our activities and to syria is likely to reduce civilian casualties rather than increase them. finally, he asked about unintended" is -- unintended consequences. he can have a big debate about the action we have had to take around the world. in my view we have to recognize that this poor business -- poisonous narrative is a battle for our generation. we see it in nigeria, we see it in somalia. we can see it in our own country. got,ting a everything went such as argument and all those things together. i be

it was only iraq's army that could have stopped isis. instead, iraqi soldiers threw down their weapons and ran. [ phone ringing ] >> hello? >> next on "blindsided," what drives these people? what makes them tick? you'll go inside the mind of a radical. meet a man who was prepared to die for a fantasy, the idea of an islamic caliphate. the greata property is that you can create wealth through capital appreciation, and this has been denied to many south africans for generations. this is an opportunity to right that wrong. the idea was to bring capital into the affordable housing space in south africa, with a fund that offers families of modest income safe and good accommodation. citi got involved very early on and showed an enormous commitment. and that gave other investors confidence. citi's really unique, because they bring deep understanding of what's happening in africa. i really believe we only live once, and so you need to take an idea that you have and go for it. you have the opportunity to say, "i've been part of the creation of ov

just as we reduce the scale and size of the so-called caliphate in iraq, pushing it out of iraq, so we need to do the same thing in syria. mr. speaker, another reason for action now is that success in iraq in squeezing the caliphate is put at risk by our failure to act in syria. this border is not recognized by isil and we tamper our efforts if we stop acting when we reach the border. when we come to the question, why now, we have to ask ourselves whether the risks of inaction are greater than the risks of taking action? every day we failed to act is a day when isil can grow stronger and more plots can be undertaken. mr. speaker, that is why their all says yes,ved that the risks of inaction are -- someto some of our asking specifically whether taking action can make the u.k. more of a target for iso-. the judgment of the direct general of security service in the chairman of the joint intelligence committee is that the u.k. is already in the top tier of countries that isil is targeting. i am clear that the only way to deal with that reality is to address the threat we face, and do so no

they were also heard saying syria and iraq. we now know there were three teams of terrorists cord authorities say seven attackers died, detonating identical suicide belts. whilil overhe weekendndn brussels authoritiesay a car leading them to make lee arrests in relation to the paris attacks and among the 129 dead, 23-year-old california state university student nohemi gonzalez, studying design and spending time abroad, a professor calling her a shining student. while here on the trees of paris this sunday, many here cannot t those images out of ththr minds. just ten months a aer the attacks on "charlie hebdo" new and troubling headlines this week amid national days of mourning now the flags at half-staff as paris struggles to get through this. and even here in a city that had already been tested last jan with the attacks on "charlie hebdo," the deputy mayor telling me they have never seen anyththg like that thh terror that unfolded here friday night. the fact that sevening thatters all died wearing identical suicide vests says

they were also heard saying syria and iraq. we now know there were three teams of terrorists coordinating the attacks. authorities say seven attackers died, detonating identical suicide belts. while over the weekend in brussels authorities say a car leading them to make three arrests in relation to the paris attacks. and among the 129 dead, 23-year-old california state university student nohemi gonzalez, studying design and spending time abroad, a professor calling her a shining student. while here on the streets of paris this sunday, many here cannot get those images out of their minds. even in a city that's already been tested last january with the "charlie hebdo" attack, the deputy mayor saying they've never seen anything like that, the fact that all seven attackers died wearing identical suicide belts, he said, is a signal that they're dealing with a new wave, a new front on this war on terror. >> thanks, david. we are joined by police chief fabien golfier responsible for 20,000 officers in the region. thanks for joining us

not in syria, in iraq. the only way the sunni tribes fight is if they believe that once they fight and get rid of i.s.i.s., they will have a say in the iraqi government. >> rose: so somebody hos has to promise them they will have a say. >> yes. >> rose: is abadi ready to make the promise? >> he doesn't have the political clout to deliver on anything. he is extremely weak. >> rose: would the iranians allow him to make that promise? >> i think it's in iran's interest to maintain the territorial integrity of iraq. i think it's in iran's interest for i.s.i.s. to be defeated by the sunni tribes, right, i think it's in iran's interest, and we probably need to have that conversation with them, right? we're not. but i think that's the way iran views it. what has to happen, i think the political solution in iraq, charlie, is a good dose of federalism. so a decentralization of power. >> rose: less power in baghdad, more in the province, to kurds and shia. >> right, and the only way if that works is there is a flow of

we go to the iraq museum in baghdad to see what is being done to try to protect them. >> iraq's ancient history and relics from the world's oldest civilizations on display in central baghdad. the walls and corridors of this gallery are adorned with stone carvings dating back to the syrians and babylonians. societies that pre-date joke by thousands of years. they have worked at the iraq museum since 1999. in the weeks leading up to th the 2003 u.s.-led invasion she and her colleagues warned that the museum was vulnerable. but no one seemed to listen. >> more than 50,000 peopl 50,000--pieces were stolen just from this museum. furniture and everything. >> almost immediately officials began efforts to get back the relics along with u.s. support, a recovery department was set up. objects were unearthed from private homes recovered in raids and some simply reappeared on the museum shelves. others treasures were seized in jordan, lebanon, syria, kuwait, saudi arabia, and as far away as new york. including this piece known as the statue, the 150-kilogram bronze relic dates back to the ancient m

okay they invaded iraq. why did they not bring sectarian to iraq? they are a multicultural country. they need help establishing a quality. how do you make people coexist with each other?? we did not apply the same rules to iraq and this is why we have a problem in iraq and syria. >> thank you sir. >> yes another question please. my question was, does he have any further comments to make about the role of iran. and just to follow-up on what he was saying, some say the middle east is not ready for democracy and we can't force it there. >> so when we think about the future of the region, after the islamic state, scholars disagree about whether liberal democracy democracy is possible in this part of the world. do you think liberal democracy with constitutions and elections and freedom of the press as possible in the arab countries? >> it's possible, but the problem is we don't have the culture of liberalism or the culture of democracy in our part of the world. you cannot actually import democracy and say to the middle eastern people you have to adopt it. the problem is we have to prepar

and, yes, he was in american custody during the iraq war. al baghdadi has shown his face publicly only once. last year when he gave a sermon to his followers. but back when the u.s. had him under lock and key, he was seen as, believe it or not, a man who could be trusted. >> the americans seem to see abu bakr as someone who could keep the prison quiet. there are 24 camps within the sunni side of camp bucca, he was allowed open access to all of them. >> he wasn't considered from everything that we know now a high-level detainee, and he was allowed to, you know, lead prayers, he was allowed to give religious lessons. >> the future leader of isis was giving other inmates lessons on islam. those inmates were jihadists or former ba'athists, henchmen of saddam, or simply common criminals. >> it most assuredly was a jihadist university. unquestionably. >> put them all together in the baking heat of southern iraq, with al baghdadi, a man who dreamed of a new kind of terror, it was a recipe for isis. >> they were meeting, they were playing soccer tog

, because the kurds don't feel that they are part of iraq. but the problem now, there are no arab boots on the ground in iraq. the arab army, it's a shiite army. and it's basic function has been to supply weapons to isil. it has not been able to fight. and it has turned over a huge part of its arsenal to the terrorists. >> okay, ambassador, one more for you here. what do you make of be russia's proposal for drafting a new syrian constitution and holding elections? is it simply to keep assad's government in power, and how far down the list of priorities to the kremlin is isil really? >> if wee look at the situation in syria, clearly, there has to be a political solution, and to say that assad must go, it might be very desirable, but he isn't going. and the russians have come up with a plan that i think could be the basis of a political settle: their plan is to have a new constitution, in which power is transferred from the president, essentially a dictatorship, to a parliament that would have basically all responsibilities except for foreign a

be a breakthrough against the islamic extremists who are occupying much of syria and iraq.

iran seems to be -- if you will -- more influential frs in iraq as far as in iraq and syria. isire out there fighting l, we are not protecting the people that put security back into syria. it is a confusing situation. it is hard for us to say what the endgame is. somebody has any explanation for that and tell me what we are trying to accomplish, i would be happy to hear it. >> i will take that, senator. objective paramount is to defeat of isil. >> that is our number one priority. -- on by : they said they would fight isil, that is not what they're doing. this is just fuels the civil war. >> the united states and russia has two complete different objectives. secretary carter: they say that. >> they are in line with iran when it comes to protecting assad. secretary carter: iran has office -- has also supported assad. the endgame has to be a transition in which assad is no longer running the country. we would like to see that occur, and as peaceful and promptly as possible. we would like there to be the -- of -- >> is it obviously that russia and iran will have more influence on

targets in iraq, from the charles de de gaulle aircraft carrier. he started the week by visiting the bataclan concert hall with david cameron. and he'll meet u.s. president barack obama on tuesday. on wednesday he's due to meet the german chancellor angela merkel. and then the russian president, vladimir putin. >>> third day of lock down in brussels. schools and museums are all closed. also the metro. let's hear from andrew simmons in paris. >> the mourning still goes on in various sections of the city of paris and there's an escalation in the military campaign against i.s.i.l. in position and operational, the charles de gaulle aircraft carrier, bombs loaded, taking off. the firs first attacks were in . the 20 aircraft on board this nuclear powered vessel triples the capacity of france to attack i.s.i.l. targets in both iraq and syria. the action coincided with he francois hollande meeting u.k. president david cameron. the two men were at the bataclan theater the dismal scene of mass killing at a rock concert, 90 people died. each paid homage by la

>> republicans have criticized president obama for not leaving troops in iraq. some have said if american forces had stayed, there would be no isis. but one believes that was never in the cards. iraq's prime minister al maliki, had a new set of patrons, his fellow shiites in tehran, and they made him an offer he couldn't refuse. >> that was part of iran's deal with him, we'll give you a third term, but the conditions are, no american soldiers. that was what tehran had demanded. there was no way it would have gone through the parliament. >> one thing is clear, it was only iraq's army that could have stopped isis. instead the iraqi soldiers threw down their weapons and ran. [ phone ringing ] >> hello -- >> next on "blindsided." what drives these people, what makes them tick. you'll go inside the mind of a radical. meet a man who was prepared to die for a fantasy. the idea of an islamic caliphate. discover card. hi! so it says here i can redeem my cashback bonus for cash. do i need to have a certain amount? nope, you can redeem your cashback for any amount, any tim

for al qaeda and iraq, the jihaddist group known as isis. it has a relationship as being kind of juarez to el paso if you like. those who were in texas so you know it's the mexican drug cartels. has san has an extended family network. knows everybody and his family knows everybody in this region. so for the purposes of doing the book we thought we won't write a book about isis unless we can interview guys in isis. you have to understand the nature of an enemy if you have any desire to defeat it. zuo got interviews with fighter tuesday lower ranking levels and even more important than that, their family members. how come a guy -- a 16-year-old boy who is studying chemical engineering or electrical engineering, wanting to live in the west, decides to cast his lot with a bunch of head-lopping barbarians? what is the driving mechanism behind this? so, the purpose of writing this book is to try to explain, by no means justify but to give an explanation and ant account for the rise -- an account for the rise of this terror army. by last clause now

iraq and afghanistan, it should. that is another thing. section 60 is characteristic of the most recent wars. the marines always do their part and then some. you really see what sacrifice they made and you also see something else that is characteristic of recent wars, the importance of special ops. it has become increasingly important in all that we do because there are so many special locks people out there, you see fighting, doing things out in the world. they are very well represented, section 60, many of them. not just people killed in action. it is also every war, go back through every war, there are almost as many people who died in training and accidents as die from bullets. you see a lot of that with special ops guys because it is high risks of, jumping out of airplanes, the parachute doesn't open. there is a disproportionate number of chopper pilots in section 60 from iraq and afghanistan. that is a way you get a round. every -- it is just a when, section 60, for every aspect or recent conflict, with your eyes open, you see everyt

but with raids like this one in northern iraq a few weeks ago, the u.s. is still being drawn deeper into this war. american specici operations soldiers helped rescue 70 iraqi hostages, but lost one of their own, the first american to die in combat here since the e of the iraq war. would you like to see america having a greater role on the ground in iraq? no? amiri told us he would not welcome a return to the days when thousands of u.s. troops were deployed here. >> amiri: why do you need to bring american soldiers to die on iraqi ground? we have young iraqi men who are able to defend their country, if they had thehequipment. it would be shameful for us. >> logan: on our trip with amiri's men, they delivered food donated by private citizens to shiite forces along the frontline, eager to portray this as an army of all iraq's people. but there are very few sunnis among their ranks, and the shiite militias have been accused of revenge attacks against sunni civilians in areas they've liberated. detailed in a u.s. diplomatic cable we read to him, including alga

>> well, you take it to them in syria and iraq. you destroy isis and then you build a coalition to replace this radical islamic terrorist threat to our country and to europe and to the region with something that is more peace-loving. we have to be engaged in this. this is not something you can contain. each day isis exists, it gains new energy and more recruits around the world. >> you know, everything is a divide here. there's democracy, there's security and stability. so, for instance, in dealing with isis, our coalition partners like turkey and saudi arabia they care more about getting rid of assad than they do dealing with isis. should the united states essentially change its policy and put the pause button on getting rid of assad? >> i think we need to do both. you don't see isis and assad fighting each other. the fight is with the remnants of the syrian free army. we need to build that force up which is not what's happening. this is viewed as a law enforcement exercise by the obama administration. we should declare war and ha

this applies to iraq and syria. as a discuss all these things, people want to know that we have learned lessons of previous conflicts. whatever people thought of the iraq war, terrible mistakes were made in the aftermath of dismantling the state and institutions of the country, and it was -- and he will never make those mistakes again. the political process in syria will in time deliver new leadership and that is what we will support. we're not in the business of dismantling their faith or institutions. the state institutions have been hollowed out after 40 years of dictatorship. when the dictatorship went, institutions collapse, but the difference between libya and syria is we have firm international commitment from the backers of the future syrian government at the vienna talks. the commitment is clear to preserve and develop the state syria and allow a new representative government to government from its people. this -- i have attempted to answer the main questions, why, legal,, like us, is it what other ground f

i don't think it's our goal to restore iraq. i don't think it's our goal to restore functioning national syria. i would say our goal is to keep as many innocent people alife and keep the terrorists from roll up territory. i think our goal is what we want to prevent the even that relatively modest goal will turn out to be sufficient. i think the announcement made over this week is consistent with trying to keep the middle east from going over the cliff rather than trying to remake the middle east in our image. >> stop it from blowing up anymore. very, very interesting conversation. thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> now from syria to iraq. the united states is talking about putting a handful of troops in syria, but already has thousands in iraq. how should we think about the united states's past and future involvement in iraq? you'll hear from the deputy secretary of state, next. ♪ ♪ (charge music) you wouldn't hire an organist without hearing them first. charge! so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check y