pending against michael cohen. that's brent blakely's job out in los angeles. lanny davis was brought in for no purpose other than to effectively put a spin on the facts and the evidence and to be michael cohen's mouthpiece, if you will. and i have a lot of respect for lanny, but that's what he is in this context. on television and otherwise. lanny davis was brought in, people are asking, well, why would they release the tape and what is the strategy. it's clear as day to me. the strategy is for lanny to try to reset the narrative around michael cohen. and one of the ways to do that is to be the provider of information, to provide this tape to cnn tonight, get it out there, and put a spin on it. and that's exactly what he's trying to do. >> but michael, just quickly, how does that help michael cohen with the real problem that he has, which is with the fbi, which is with federal prosecutors in manhattan? federal prosecutors in manhattan don't care a word about what lanny davis has to say. >> well, they don't care ab

michael cohen secretly

nowhere in there does it say michael cohen says cash. >> michael cohen never says cash in what i hear -- >> check, rather. you hear him say check. >> i never hear michael cohen say cash or check. i hear donald trump say cash and check. the trump organization has this argument that he was talking about a way to pay for things and not green money. then why did he mention a check if he was talking about a full payment or prorated or staggered payments, he wouldn't have said check. >> so, listen, i spoke with some of michael cohen's friends. i just want to read it specifically. his friends say it certainly looks like he wants to tell the tuth to the most important person in america right now who is seeking the truth about trump. you know who that is, that's mueller. i asked lanny davis when he was on your set, i asked him, please come see me, i want to ask you about something i heard. he said, i can't answer that question. the truth is on our side. who wants to most hear the truth from michael cohen? i have to leave it at that and leave it unanswered. >> lanny davis is a very talented adv

all he was doing tonight was really trying to just destroy michael cohen and i think michael cohen would have been better served to have these conversations with the prosecutors. that's in the court of the public opinion. i don't know how that would play out in the courtroom. david, i will give you the last word. the reporting also says there were other in the room. they can do whatever they want with michael cohen. i do think there is some tipping with these stories. all the stories are for the people who's keeping quiet. meaning that we kind of know something abts yout you. >> david, how do you think it is going to play out? >> forecasting down the road. whether it is deputy attorney rosenstein, congress, or the court, will have to decide whether cohen is credible. the issue that jim was saying is that mayor rudy giuliani went on tonight and chum the waters and not really directing attack the under line feedbacks but more so trying to attack michael cohen's credibility. the challenge that he's running up against and i really with what jack was saying that maybe this is not the typical

would it just be in the hands of michael cohen's legal team, and michael cohen's legal team shared it. or is this -- is there some exception that would make this also material that would be handed over to the prosecutors. >> we need more details, john, but it sounds on the surface like you could make a claim that this was attorney-client privilege ed material. however, there is an exception to the attorney client privilege, if you are discussing something of a criminal nature, it's called the crime fraud exception. in this discussion, it is perceived as a planned illegal payment, then there's no privilege. now one possibility of course would be if the payoff is being planned in order to protect donald trump's reputation in the election and part of the plan of course is not to report it to the federal election commission because obviously that would be revealing the secret that the payoff is designed to hide. that could be a crime. and if you make the argument that this could have been a discussion in pursuance of that crime, then it would never be revealed. but as you said, we don't h

so according to michael cohen's lawyer, michael cohen is not the one who leaked this story. and cnn and nbc news now confirming the claim donald trump knew in advance of the trump tower meeting and in fact that he approved going ahead with that meeting, knowing it was an offer of dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government to help him in his campaign. michael cohen claims that, according to this reporting, and is willing to discuss that with the special counsel, but that claim is not being leaked by michael cohen. it is being leaked by michael cohen. joining me now, the reporter from vand"vanity fair." >> let me ask you, i've been reporting this as breaking news, as it is coming across, as i'm getting little pieces of payment across my desk on this. have i said anything that does not comport with your understanding? >> reporter: no. and i will say cynic the time was released on friday, people in cohen's camp had believed exactly as you were saying right now. that part of these leaks were coming from somewhere in trump's orbit. whether it was from his personal attorne

president, sir, is michael cohen lying? >> reporter: after news his former attorney, michael cohen, is prepared to tell authorities that mr. trump was aware that russians offered to bring dirt on hillary clinton to a trump tower meeting with donald trump jr. in 2016. >> mr. president, did you know about the meeting at trump tower? >> reporter: but his only response has come on twitter. i did not know of the meeting with my son, don junior. then suggests a motive for cohen under investigation. sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jab. amid the controversy, the white house is celebrating. new signs the economy is thriving. >> we're on track to hit the highest annual average growth rate in over 13 years. >> reporter: and, alex, sometimes there is just the unusual situation of two figures well known being in a space where you might not expect them and that happens from time to time at washington's reagan national airport and on friday politico captured an image showi

for them michael cohen's liability is a huge liability. we don't expect to see the attacks on michael cohen's credibility coming from current white house officials. they'll try to keep their hands clean with things coming out of there. you heard giuliani say michael cohen actually had done many bad things. of course those bad things likely would be presumably at the behest of giuliani's current client, the president. that hasn't kept giuliani from dredging up michael cohen's past to benefit other witnesses. >> we certainly see giuliani, he's gotten quite the media blitz this week going after cohen, really casting doubt on his credibility and going back and forth on lanny davis. is there a palpable strategy, one you can figure out, jill? >> yeah, the strategy here very clearly seems to be that they are trying to throw as much negative material at the wall as possible, seeing what sticks so that they can muddy up whatever conclusion is reached here. i thought the back and forth this week over the meeting at trump tower was absolutely fascina

if michael cohen is the source of this information coming out, then that's very bad for michael cohen's future as a cooperator. if he is the one putting it out there -- it is not just that it's out there. but if he's the one putting it out there, that is going to hurt his ability to be a cooperator because the government isn't going to trust him as easily. there is so many reasons why. however, if it is not coming from him and anyone associated with him, if he's not authorizing this information to come out, but it is coming from trump, giuliani and some weird plot to try and diminish cohen as a cooperator, it doesn't. it will not. in other words, the fact that the information is out there in the world in either does not take away as chuck said, does not take away the fact that the government needs to prove this. we all learn things and we think we know them. the government has to know it in a factual sense, in a provable sense. and the way to do that is through evidence and witnesses are one form of evidence. so they need a witness who can go into court or in an affidavit, whatever form

michael cohen is not reliable. this is the guy that one of the ways he gotten in trump's world is he did whatever it took to get problems to go away. donald trump is not terribly reliable. the washington post said that he lied more than 3,000 times of his first 266 days in office. simone? >> well, don, this makes a bigger point. if we can't believe the president and his allies and his family about something as small or as big depending on how you look at it as a meeting, what can we believe them about? >> what the president said matters and who the president matters. we have found that none of these folks are credible. we can't believe anything that's being said. for instance, when the president said he's giving $12 billion bail out quote on quote to farmers and he's going to do something about this, can we believe him? the president says i did not discuss x, y, and z, can we believe him? we can't believe the president of the united states. >> the only person who have said anything about this under oath that we kno

case against michael cohen. michael cohen has also just done a strange on the record but off camera interview with abc news with their star anchor jeff stephanopoulos in that interview, he vaguely hinted but didn't definitely say he might be thinking of cooperating with prosecutors. michael cohen is still adjusting in this new place in this world. by repositioning himself between trump and investigators. regionally that meant fighting back through the media. at the end of last week michael cohen got his hair freshly shorn and picked out a black suit to wear for his first on-the-record interview. on saturday afternoon, abc news anchor george stephanopoulos entered cohen's suite at the regency hotel where the two men spoke for 45 minutes. the interview was initially supposed to be on camera, but at the advice of mr. cohen's counsel, guy petrillo, the new lawyer due to start this week, quote that. >> stuck to an kaaudio only format. quote, for months, people in his circle told me about the possibility of him sittin

cohen squares that saying of course donald trump knew. is michael cohen lying? this raises a lot of questions. is there any corroboration? >> on another larger issue, michael cohen knows everything. he is the long time fixer. he has been at the president's side. so the idea that he is ready, he says, through sources to cooperate with robert mueller, is it a game changer? >> it could be, it depends on in michael cohen is telling the truth, and whether or not he has any corroboration, any other witnesses, any tape recordings, any e-mails or texts that corroborate what he is saying. >> all right special agent, someone that has investigated matters before, this information comes out overnight, michael cohen making this public revelation, cnn reporting michael cohen's mind-set on this. what happens now. if you're robert mueller, what do you do? >> i think at the outset, what this tells us is that for a group that is so tight knit, they're terrible at colluding if there was collusion. if you think about it, it doesn't look like they got information from the russians,

it is not michael cohen's words. the most important line is this: once petrillo fully assumes his role, a joint defense agreement cohen shared with the president, which allowed their lawyers to share information and documents with each other will come to an end, abc news has learned. if that happens, that will be the bitter end of the michael cohen-donald trump relationship. and it will mean that donald trump has even more reason to fear michael cohen. the rest of the report is michael cohen saying perfectly normal things that make sense. but for michael cohen, that itself is unusual. michael cohen used to say that he was, quote, the guy who would take a bullet for donald trump. now he's saying my wife, my daughter and my son have my first loyalty and always is. and there is no husband or father in the world who should think any differently. but michael cohen had that same wife and that same daughter and that same son when he said that he would take a bullet for donald trump and leave his wife a widow and leave his c

cohen with what michael cohen may say, for instance, what michael cohen says now that the president knew about the russia meeting in advance, i would believe don jr. and the president in light of learning that michael was taping conversations, the way michael was conducting himself behind the scenes and in front of all of us. >> so you're saying -- you brought up this infamous trump tower meeting. wouldn't it be unusual if donald trump jr. never told his father about it at all? >> look, under normal circumstances, if you have -- in general i would think the president was told about it, especially because this was a relationship, everybody can understand this was done through the ogilarov family, they had hosted the president perfectly legally in moscow for miss universe and talked about a trump tower moscow for many years. you understand trump tower, you worked through it. but the e-mail was sent directly to don junior from goldstone. it was not sent to then mr. trump's executive assistant, rona graff. so if you had to ask me specifically, and in light of learning that, one, michael

cohen, but the fact that michael cohen recorded the conversation at all. the president said what kind of lawyer would tape a client? so sad. is this a first? he said he's never heard of it before. why was the tape so abruptly terminated while i was presumably saying positive things? and the president says i hear there are other clients and many reporters that are taped. can this be so? too bad. the president doesn't elaborate on what those positive things he would have said while discussing a payment made to a playboy mod whole is alleging she had an affair with the president weeks before the election would have been. but we do know the white house is referring most questions about this and this recording to the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani who is certainly firing back, responding. and as you'll recall, rudy just last week when this -- it was first reported this recording even existed, said he believed it would exonerate the president in the end. now today on twitter, rudy giuliani responding to the fact that this audio was published saying if cohen,

what about michael cohen's lawyer, lanny davis? >> the statement we got from lanny davis was, we have nothing to say on this matter. so the story actually puts cohen and his team in a little bit of a box here, right, because if they want to ultimately cooperate with investigators, as they certainly signaled a willingness to do, kind of the fewer pieces of information that come out publicly, the better. ditto for president trump's people. but this is a thorny moment in the cohen/trump relationship. at one point, remember, michael cohen said i would take a bullet for the president. and this has become a very rocky relationship since the fbi investigation burst into public light in april. you know, what we also learned was that at one point, cohen's lawyers and trump's lawyers actually sort of, you know, talked informally about, how does this end for cohen? is the president going to pardon cohen, is that where this goes? the president's lawyers were very kind of cool to the issue, they were noncommittal. they didn't say, yeah, yeah, w

so according to michael cohen's lawyer, michael cohen is not the one who leaked the story. first to cmn nbc news confirming the claim from michael cohen that donald trump knew in advance of the trump tower ming in and in fact, that he approved going ahead with that meeting knowing it was an offer of dirt on hillary clinton from the russian government to help him in his campaign. michael cohen claims that according to this reporting tonight and is willing to discuss that with the special counsel. but that claim is not being leaked by michael cohen. it's being leaked about michael cohen. joining us now is emily jane fox from "vanity fair" who follows the michael cohen story more closely than closely. thank you very much for being with us on short notice. i appreciate you getting on the phone with us. >> of course. >> so let me ask you if i've been reporting in as breaking news as i'm getting pieces of paper across my desk about this. have i said anything that strikes you as wrong or that does not comport with your understanding of the story thus far in. >> no, and i will tell

did michael cohen betray you, mr. president? did michael cohen betray you? mr. president you worried about what michael cohen is going to say to prosecutors? are you worried about what is on the other tapes, mr. president? donald trump's answer to each of these questions today was thank you. when he was being bombarded by questions about the tape of his conversation with michael cohen as reporters were being ushered out of the president's oval office meeting with the president of the european commission. and in classic trump white house style, the cnn reporter who yelled those questions to the president was banned from the president's next appearance in the rose garden where another cnn reporter was allowed to cover that event for the network. but it didn't meater because the president immediately turned and left before reporters could shout their questions across the grass. if you are one of those people who thinks that donald trump does not have a good answer to any one of those questions that were yelled at him today, you are not alone. you are not alone toni

i have michael avenatti, michael cohen on the brain. has been a doozy of a week. >> we're all feeling it. anyway that they didn't need that payment because they had already given the payment. so that's number one on the sort of substance on it. one thing i want to clarify here is what i was told regarding other recordings between michael cohen and donald trump, what i was told is that others exist but that they're not consequential, that this one that we're discussing which is about two minutes long apparently according to people who have seen the crypt, and about this and about a couple of other topics, but that other recordings were things like call me back, i'll see you later today, things like that, that those are not consequential. that's what we're told. we'll see. i think it is interesting, i would love to know what mark geragos who is an attorney thinks, if this establishes a pattern of michael cohen recording his client, donald trump. one more thing i want to say is that i was told in addition to donald trump there are recordin

michael cohen has not been charged with anything. there's not even an indication that he has met with prosecutors. but two and a half weeks ago, june 13th, abc news was first to report that michael cohen is, quote, likely to cooperate with federal investigators. whether or not that story from june 13 is true, michael cohen does not appear to have been upset about that reporting. there was a single byline on june 13. it was george stephanopoulos. michael cohen does not appear to be holding a grudge against george stephanopoulos because this weekend he gave george stephanopoulos his first interview. the first interview in which he has gone on at length about this investigation he's embroiled in. i know this sounds like a little inside baseball but this is worth noting at pivot points in the news. george stephanopoulos was the first person who reported that michael cohen would flip. he also just got the first interview with michael cohen about this case and in his interview, mr. cohen strongly hints that he is looking to cooperate with

>> no. >> then why did michael cohen make those -- >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? >> no, i don't know. >> so he denied that and then referenced michael cohen, saying you'll have to ask his attorney michael cohen. so, do you think that this new recording, does it to you show that he did have an affair and he tried to cover it up or that he knew about it? >> i think it is certainly circumstantial evidence donald trump knew about each of these payments and knew what was going on in the months prior to the election day of what payments were being made and how they were being structured and michael cohen was consulting with him. i don't know how you reconcile this tape, don, with michael cohen's denials and others acting on his behalf when we first filed this case in march, april and may. how many times did we hear michael cohen and people on his behalf claim that the allegations were false and that hm and donald trump, that he and donald trump were innocen

michael cohen, giuliani's right. michael cohen lies. he's a liar. so is giuliani. so is the president. lanny davis looking at the tape, listening to the tape, you can't believe any of these people. can't believe the president, giuliani, my client, but you can believe the tape. he's getting people to shift their attention from all of these people who are professional prevaricators saying, look at the evidence and then decide. it's simple and in that respect pretty smart. >> can i ask quickly about the 2016 trump tower meeting with the source telling nbc news cohen is willing to tell special counsel mueller then candidate trump knew about that meeting. of course, the president responded denying this, blasting michael cohen on twitter. how does this change the equation for the president? >> politically? >> uh-huh. >> not a lot. look, it's all baked in. his supporters are baked in. the problem with trump's future candidacy in the republican party in 2018 is -- is that trump has failed to expand his base in any meaningful way whatsoever. looking at a poll earlier befora

we have one of the michael cohen tapes. the secret recording of president trump back in 2016 made by cohen in which he and then-candidate trump discuss arrangements surrounding a payment to former playboy playmate karen mcdougal that was made by a third party, david pecker, as head of the "national enquirer." this all happened in the months before the election. now, this is not a great quality recording, and that will be relevant to its analysis. so, first, i want to play you the entire recording, not all of which is relevant to the payment. so listen for yourself. >> let me know what's happening, okay? oh. oh. maybe because of this, it would be better if you didn't go, you know? maybe because of this, for that one -- you know -- get rid of this because it's so false what they're saying. it's such bullshit. i think -- i think this goes away quickly. i think what -- i think it's probably better, do the charleston thing just this time. yeah. in two weeks, it's fine. i think right now it's better, you know? okay, honey. you ta

you heard michael cohen say what? no, no, no, no, no. >> and you're saying he wasn't saying, no, no, i would never pay with cash. i'll only pay with a check? >> he was saying, no, no, new york -- no, you don't pay with cash. and that's why what you heard, no matter the spin, is about truth versus falsehood. this is what this hole thing is about. mr. trump used the word cash and he lied about it by having giuliani accuse cohen saying the word cash. now we've put the tape out, and you decide whether i'm telling you the truth because the tape says what it says. but this is about the big topic in america today. a president of the united states who consistently lies. now he has giuliani lying about the lie. remember, he lied about what he said on air force one, openly lied. he said, no, i had nothing to do with stormy daniels. then giuliani said, oh, yes, he did. then he lied about the statement in trump tower, that he had nothing to do with it. it wasn't misleading. he in fact was involved in the writing of a definitely m

what is michael cohen thinking? >> our understanding from people who speak to michael cohen is it's two things. 1, as you said alysn, he feels hung out to dry. now he feels the president is abandoning him. in addition to that we're told michael cohen wants to do the right thing now, he wants to show he values country over anything else, including his former boss. there's a positive motivation there as well. whether you believe that or not that is what people close to him say explains his change from being one of the president's defenders to saying, listen, i know what really happened here. and i'm willing to say that to investigators. the other thing i would say is this, someone is lying here, right? >> yeah. >> and that's the question and the question for investigators, perhaps juries and the american public to decide. but we also know -- we know that the president and his allies have given misleading accounts of this prior, right? because remember their initial -- first of all, they said there were no meetings wit

he trusted michael cohen for a long time and michael cohen knows his inside business, knows all of the secrets, knows where the bodies are buried, figuratively. so he is nervous and i think he should be. >> evan perez, here's my question to you. so far from the trump team, from the campaign when it was "the wall street journal" in the fall of '16 they broke this story and denied trump knew anything about this payment when clearly based upon this reporting he did. >> right, exactly. they denied. look, they denied everything related to any of these claims that have been made, and it does appear that information then comes forward that shows the denials are not quite accurate. look, we'll have to see whether or not this is something that prosecutors end up using in this investigation and they made clear that they are looking into charging michael cohen. we don't know exactly what necessarily the charges will look like, whether they have anything to do with perhaps an election law violation because obviously if someone made a payment to benefit the president before the election and that is

michael cohen was asked by our committee about the trump tower meeting. we're not allowed to go into what he said, but i do believe this is all the reason that the republicans should release the transcripts, not just for michael cohen but every witness who was interviewed around the trump tower meeting. i will say this, though. michael cohen is being accused of being a liar, but all of the lies that he has told were on behalf of donald trump, and we have seen every day in america witnesses who come forward, testify in court, change their story because they want to tell the truth, and juries rely on that, and that is often persuasive if it can be corroborated. that's what we have to do now is to see if his testimony can be corroborated. >> if it turns out donald trump jr. didn't tell the truth in front of congress, should he be held in contempt? would there be any appetite from republicans obviously to do so? >> right now, there's no appetite from the republicans. they closed our investigation. i think this revelation shows how premature and irresponsible

cohen? >> mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? is michael cohen telling the truth? mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? >> and that from a president who usually loves shouting questions and scrums with the media. but this week the typical chatty president hasn't answer aid single question. it's been a rough few days for the president. the start of the week we found out federal investigators have 12 audio tapes from trump's former fixer michael cohen and a new poll found that a majority of americans believe russia has compromising information on donald trump. on wednesday one of the cohen audio tapes was released and the public heard then candidate trump talking about buying the rights to a former playboy play mate story about an alleged affair. then a federal judge rejected the president's effort to stop a lawsuit alleging he violated laws regarding conflicts of interest with foreign governments. we also learned the trump organization cfo who has deep ties to the trump family was subpoenaed to testify before a grand jury in the cohen criminal case. and

>> this was the stuff that was seized by michael cohen's office. the feds went in and took stuff from his office. this is one of those things. michael helcohen did this secre two months before the election. they're discussing what would be a second payment to the model. the second payment that would ensure her silence going forward. this was after the nationa national -- this was another payment and a second payment. >> do you we know why michael cohen would be recording donald trump secretly. >> no, that's an interesting question. why would a lawyer be recording a conversation with someone. that could be seized. we know michael cohen had a history recording a lot of different conversations to a lot of different people but why on such a sensitive thing would he secretly do this. was he doing it as a way to have leverage on the president later or was he doing it in a way of protecting himself as a lawyer saying look, i have done the work that i am supposed to do and here is the evidence client telling me that. cohen is under a tricky spot here of al

president, is michael cohen telling the truth? is michael cohen telling the truth? mr. president, is michael cohen telling the truth? >> you have been watching president donald trump address reporters on the south lawn, talking about the new gdp numbers, new economic figures out today. the voice you heard is that woman right there, nbc's kristen welker, shouting questions to the president on another topic, which he didn't answer. i'll come to you once you get setup. your camera is still working on that. ali velshi is with us, as well. i'll go to you, ali, before i get to kristen. just on the economic piece we heard from the president. >> yeah. >> he talked a lot about how this is very, very sustainable growth. i think that was the word that he used. he hinted all day yesterday about seeing these gdp numbers, wanting to get them out. he was excited about it. he wanted to see a 4 in front of that, and it is what he got. >> yup. >> give us fact checks here. he talked about a lower trade deficit, for example. we know there are some things happening on that front. >> right.

but i'm concerned about michael cohen. if you spend five minutes with michael cohen you know he's not strong. he's weak. it's odd to say this but when he said he would stand up for the president, i knew from talking with him for less than five minutes that he was sufficiently weak, that he would cave in with respect to any wrongdoing. >> what do you mean by weak, though? do you mean he would tell the truth about his history or he would be intimidated by prosecutors? >> he could be counted onto protect the person who's paying him. very few people who face the prospect of jail stand up. in fact, it's difficult for me to recall any instance over decades of practice where somebody has stood up and taken it -- >> let me press you for a moment, jay. i understand the point you're raising, but if the facts that he provides to the federal investigators are not negative or incriminating to donald trump then it doesn't matter whether he's weak or strong, right? >> well, the prosecutor makes a judgment as to whether the person is tell

you ran into michael cohen. >> i ran into michael cohen by happenstance. you know, stephanie, that was not the first communication i'd had related to potentially sitting down with michael cohen and resolving things. this has been in the works for a number of weeks. but it was contingent on michael cohen coming 100% clean and disclosing what he knew about the president and the president's culpability as it relates to potential criminal conduct. on sunday, we had a meeting actually set up on monday, meaning two days ago, 4:00 p.m. in new york. i canceled that meeting on sunday because it became clear to me after speaking with lanny davis that morning that michael was not prepared to do the right thing and wanted to basically have it both ways. we're not going to participate in something like that. so my issue is as follows. our issues is as follows. there's a number of other tapes. there's a lot of additional damaging information, and michael cohen doesn't want to provide that information to the american public and doesn't want to come clean. he's playing, a

>> he challenged michael cohen to release all the tapes, publicly, even though michael cohen doesn't have to do that. but you just heard him say on the show that he quickly has to release everything. joining us right now is leon panetta, the former cia director, mr. secretary, thank you for joining us. do you have a problem with president trump inviting the russian president vladimir putin to the white house for a second summit in the fall? >> well, it races a lot of concerns, first of all, we don't know what went on in that one-on-one meeting between president trump and president putin. and i think the president yos it so the american people to explain just exactly what they talked about and whether or not any agreements were made. unless that is cleared up i don't quite understand why he would again invite putin to this country, particularly at a time when we're aware that the russians are interfering with our election process, and this meeting would take place just weeks before the midterms. so it just doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of the kind of diplomatic strategy that mo

michael well. >> it's like the michael cohen friends, family and tormentoring table. >> michael cohen reportedly has a story to tell. nbc news confirmed cohen is willing to inform robert mueller that donald trump as a candidate knew about that 201 meeting between russians and his top campaign aides at trump tower. a knowledgeable source says the president's former attorney is willing to tell special counsel donald trump jr. told his father in advance of the meeting. cohen's plames first rors erepoy cnn, cohen doesn't have evidence to back up his story and cnn reporting a source familiar with cone's testimony to the house intelligence committee says cohen did not testify that trump had advance knowledge, nor does that claim appear in either of the committee's reports. delining comment, his attorney, lanny davis. i have to wonder why the trump people put that story out. it was not from us. rudy giuliani had this to say. >> i expected something from this from cohen. lying a week, two weeks. lying for years. i don't see how he has any credibility. if he had a trial, and there won't be, wh

>> reporter: michael cohen breaking his silence. in an interview with abc, trump's self-proclaimed fxer, a man who has said he'd take a bullet for donald trump -- >> i'll do anything to protect mr. trump. >> reporter: is now making clear who his allegiance is to. to be crystal clear, my wife, my daughter and my son and this country have my first loyalty. in a 45-minute off-camera interview, abc says not once did cohen praise his former boss. instead he signaled that if he faces federal criminal charges, he would cooperate. possibly offering information on the president. something trump told reporters he wasn't worried about just weeks ago. >> want to know if you're worried if he's going to cooperate with federal -- >> no, i'm not worried because i did nothing wrong. >> reporter: after an fbi raid earlier this year which seized more than 4 million documents from cohen, cnn has learned that u.s. attorneys in manhattan are interested in his $130,000 payment to porn star stormy daniels before the 2016 election. daniels claims she had an

what we've heard is not that typical michael cohen bravado, not that typical michael cohen defense of trump, and of course no reference to this attorney-client privilege. the president doesn't claim to have him as his lawyer anymore. he has described himself as the president's fixer. there is no privilege with a fixer. in fact, fixers exist more on tv than they do, or in the movies more than they do in real life. >> right. the thing to remember about the attorney-client privilege, it only applies if a conversation or a communication pertains to legal advice. and if you're fixing problems for someone, it's there is a fine line. it could be some legal advice. it could be the other things. but you do raise a good point. they have really started going in different directions. >> in a legal sense as well? >> absolutely. >> they have a cooperation agreement that is coming to an end on thursday. >> so that's a critical, critical point. i think that michael cohen has been talking about his concern for his family for a couple of months now. and that's always a telltale sign when someone is thi

that doesn't mean that what michael cohen -- that doesn't corroborate what michael cohen is saying. but to simone's point, it does suggest that there is a lot of mistruth, untruth, that has already happened around that. >> lies. just say lies. i'm going to keep you guys for another segment here, but i just have to say, this is me in the role of rudy giuliani, and i read this, i played this at the top, so he says, gosh almighty, why didn't he tape it? he taped everything else, he's got a hundred tapes, why didn't he tape it, maybe he did, maybe he's got a tape that he erased. did you ever think of that? no. you don't think that he would erase a tape? maybe he would. i don't know. again, if you're saying the meeting never happened, and then you're conceding that he taped the meeting that never happened, what sense does that make? we'll be right back. what will you discover with a lens made by essilor? sharper vision, without limits. days that go from sun up to sun down. a whole world in all its beauty. three innovative technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection.

michael cohen is despicable. we don't like him anymore. number two michael cohen is unarmed. he doesn't have anything. we have got all these tapes but there's really nothing there. he's got an agenda that nobody should trust. rudy giuliani is throwing all that out. i started as a young reporter covering the courts. they are throwing out a half dozen different reasons why his client is innocent, you should really focus in on that case because there's a pretty good chance that lawyer is trying to confuse you and make you look in a lot of different directions rather than recognize there's something really serious going on here. i think lanny davis is winning because rudy giuliani is trying too hard. >> okay. draug from some deep background your front. listen more to rudy giuliani. >> we have negotiations going on with them. we have an out standing offer to them. they haven't responded in about a week to ten days. i don't hold that against them. they have a lot going on like we do. >> what does that offer look like? >> i can't tell you except there's a sort of area of questioning

the latest, of course, michael cohen. the development where he is now alleging that president trump, then candidate trump, knew about that trump tower meeting in june of 2016. of course, president trump has denied that. said he did not know. so many developments on that front with michael cohen, the white house watching that carefully. last night i was told the president's mood was growing increasingly more worried about this investigation. certainly, the strong economic news, good news here. the administration would be off to a great start if it was not for the self-inflicted wounds of the investigations. >> all those russia headlines. jeff zeleny at white house, thank you. >>> let's find out what moscow is saying about this possible upcoming summit. matthew chance joins us from russia. what are you hearing there? >> reporter: all this, of course, stems from a press conference that was being given by vladimir putin, the russian president in south africa. he is attending a summit there with world leaders from emerging mar

>> no, no. >> then why did michael cohen make them? >> well, you'll have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney, and you'll have to ask michael cohen. >> do you know where he got the money to pay that? >> no. >> i don't know. >> when asked whether the president in fact directed him to make the payoff, michael cohen would only offer his nondenial. i want to answer one day. i will answer, be i can't comment now on the advice of my council. he also declined a comment when asked whether candidate trump knew in advance about the trump tower meeting with the russians. he called it poor judgment on the campaign's part but neither confirmed nor denied the president's knowledge of it. a far cry from april when he tweeted this. a person who deserves my loyalty receives it. i will always protect our potus, donald trump. he has not tweeted about michael cohen for nearly two months. he did not talk about him in a press turbulent today with the dutch prime minister. however, his name did come up with the white house. jeff zeleny. he pushed him off to the president's outside counsel. wh