the irs business divisions have been actively engaged with the irs i.t. team and others in designing the plan which sets specific business goals, includes multiple milestones, significant oversight, various levels of accountability while expanding the analytics to bring taxpayers into compliance. we look forward to working with your staff as we move forward with the plan. >> i have 25 minutes left. i'll reserve it. >> 25 minutes? >> 25 seconds. senator wyden. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. commissioner, at your confirmation hearing, you were asked how you would respond to political pressure. you said, i would hope that the members of this committee and the american taxpayers see me as staunchly independent or more so. i bring this up because i'm of the view that you are now on the receiving end of a very aggressive political campaign by the trump administration. last week the president's lawyer presumably acting at the behest of the president wrote the treasury department a letter insisting that you, the irs, not comply with chairman neal's reques

it is not as if the irs is not looking at these companies. and a large portion of the tax gap on the individual side of the $290 billion estimated, almost half of that -- >> thank you! thank you! thank you! yes! yes! thank you washington, d.c.. thank you. you are all

it's a matter of practice at the irs. so it's important for us as we did this question to get our hands on these documents in order to make that assessment and obviously there are serious other public interests that would be served by having access but principally this is about the policy question that the committee is anxious to look at. >> are you confident your committee has the authority to do this? >> there's no question the committee has the authority. it's been exercised by the committee for many, many years in different circumstances. obviously in this case since the president has broken from this near 50-year tradition, it's being exercised in context of the president's returns but there's no question it is clear in the law that the chairman of the ways and means committee has the authority to seek these from the irs commissioner and that the irs commissioner is bound by law to provide them. so we expect the irs to comply. >> because the chairman, richard neal, the chairman of your committee, the ways and means c

it says it's a crime for the president to request that the irs commissioner or anyone else at the irs not cooperate with chairman richard neal's investigation. and the law doesn't stop there. if the president has made that phone call, if the president has called up the commissioner of the irs any time in the last few months when they knew this was coming and said, don't give them my tax returns, the irs commissioner is under legal obligation to immediately report that phone call to their treasury's inspector general and if the commissioner doesn't do that, then the commissioner has himself committed a crime by not reporting the trump request. the penalty in this law for the president or anyone in the trump white house calling up the irs commissioner and telling him not to hand over the tax returns is a maximum of five years in prison. the penalty for the irs commissioner himself not reporting that someone made that request is the same thing. maximum of five years in prison. so knowing the impulse of donald trump as we do, what is the likelihood he has committed that federal crime alre

years possibly, aback-and-forth between the irs and lawmakers . secretary mnuchin has indicated he is not exactly excited about this prospect. doesn't believe he needs to do it. mick mulvaney has said this has already been litigated, we talked about this during the election andvoters chose trump anyway . >> mulvaney going on fox news away in on this topic. the president's chief of staff. >> they knew they're not going to get these taxes, they know what the law is, they know one of the fundamental principles of the irs is to protect althe confidentiality of you and me and everybody else whofile taxes. they know the terms under law by which the irs can give them thedocuments . but political hit job is not one of those reasons . >> to be clear, you believe democrats will never see the presidents tax returns . >> never, nor should they. that's an issue already litigated during the election . voters knew the president could have given his tax returns and they elected him anyway which is what drives the democrats crazy but they just want the attention o

john kennedy use the irs against his political opponents. in a "newsweek" magazine because ben bradley knew about it. of those who received leaked information was ben bradley. later of "the washington post" and also sicking the irs on his political opponents. and those that he was concerned about like mlk. johnson picked up where kennedy left off and took it further. he use the irs against his political opponents and used the fbi. that johnson actually had hubert humphrey's phone tapped running for president of the united states because he was concerned what hubert humphrey would say about the vietnam war. johnson had the goldwater campaign tapped. the fbi an atlantic city convention monitoring his opponents. getting regular feedback from j edgar hoover. although i'm disgusted i'm not surprised that the democrats in the house have learned a lot from fdr, john kennedy, it and johnson because they want to see trumps tax returns. they don't control the executive branch but they control the house. we have a chairman of the committee elijah cummi

rather i would have indicated to the irs commissioner i expected the irs to comply with the law as always. and joining us now for an exclusive interview, lawrence somers, the former treasury secretary under president bill clinton and former director of the national economic counsel under obama. he is an economics professor at harnd university. thank you for joining us tonight. have you taught me something once again. i'm used to taking notes when you speak. but i did not know that the delegation from the treasury secretary to the irs commissioner on matters of tax issues like this was actually in writing and that it's a formal delegation and there's a formal process for revoking that delegation. >> that's right. you know, it's the first one of the first things my general counsel told me when i became treasury secretary was any individual tax matter affecting any individual taxpayer you are under no circumstances going to be anywhere near. and that applies to a request of this kind and for good reason. it's the essence of the integrity of the tax system that politically appointed officials

and are you worried about the irs? a lot of people feeling the pinch at this recent tax clinic in san jose. now are there tricks and pro tips when dealing with the irs? our insider says yes. consumer investigator chris chmura got the scoop from a former irs agent. chris, we all need the help we can get. what do you got? >> for 30 years april tracked people down. she got them to pay their federal taxes or she seized their assets to cover the debt. now over the next three minutes or so, she is peeling back the curtain. she e is going to share stories that might intimidate you at first, but maybe ease your irs anxiety in the end. do you mind if we call you april? >> april would be good. >> reporter: the name april is fake, but her irs credentials are real. >> i have a lot of respect for what i did. >> reporter: she wasn't just any irs agent. she was a collections agent. >> i've seized cars, boats, gone to a business, had to take inventory and close the business down. >> reporter: april knows people fear the irs. she wants

it's easy for the irs if they're going to comply. they could comply with this in a matter of a few days. and so april 10 is a perfectly reasonable deadline but april 10 might be the beginning of what becomes a legal fight over this. >> i think there absolutely is going to be a legal fight. they're not going to hit that deadline, and it reminds me that we're in a very different era. when nelson rockefeller was getting approved to be vice president, he sat for the congress for two days, and they went through all of his finances, including his tax returns. and he had vastly more complex holdings than donald trump has, and he was expected to sit in front of congress and answer questions about whether he was financially conflicted. and trump is just flouting that process. it's a good government issue. this isn't partisan politics or idealogies, whether or not the people running the country are or are not conflicted. >> there is no law on the side of donald trump on this one. the people we needed to talk to, thank you very much. really app

that provision in the irs manual. now people are looking at this much more carefully. we need to see, in a very targeted and focused way, is the irs doing its job to actually audit the president and the vice president? there's all kinds of procedures and processes. the president's taxes are supposed to be kept in a special safe, they're supposed to be kept in orange folders, nobody's supposed to look at it except for the people who are doing the audit. have day done that work? so the president has called more attention to this issue by not releasing his tax returns in the first place. chairman neal has said since day one he became chairman, we're going to be very deliberate, very judicious. we're going to make sure we use judgment that will hold up to scrutiny by others and by a court of law. we cannot politicize this. >> i want to ask you, while i have you here, about something that one of your colleagues has said. ilhan omar was talking about presidential adviser stephen miller, who really is pulling the strings at

it's true the irs can seize your house, but it's rare. the irs gets 150 million tax returns every year but it is currently auctions off just 14 homes nationally. in her 30 years, april never evicted anyone. >> reporte >> taking a home is a last resort. we don't want to take your residence. >> reporter: most people fear take it or leave it tactics. ads for attorneys and accountants reinforced the idea. >> you have tax rights and our professionals fight hard. >> reporter: you can try to negotiate with the irs on your own. there is an official form to offer in compromise. april says it works. she told us she cut deals with families that couldn't pay in full. >> we may take less than what you owe and resolve it. >> reporter: april says assumptions get people in trouble. if your taxes are off by a small amount you can't just write it off. >> are you going to come to the door for a hundred bucks? >> no matter how much you owe, small or big, you will get a letter. >> reporter: april says too many people ignore them assuming minor mistakes will b

the result is a specific request to the irs commissioner. it's provided under section 6103 of the tax code which says the chairman of the ways & means committee can seek tax returns from taxpayers when there is a public interest and a public policy purpose. there very much is one in this case. >> it is not just the president pushing back. it's republican members of your own committee. for instance, congressman kevin brady put out this statement. weaponizing our nation's tax code by targeting political foes sets a dangerous precedent and weakens american's privacy rights. by law all americans have a fundamental right to the privacy of the personal information found in their tax returns. is he right? >> first of all, it's amazing to the extent to which republicans in congress are willing to sacrifice their own obligations. the oath they swore to provide oversight on the executive branch of government in order to defend a president whose standards are taking us to a dark place. having said that, no. the president of the united states is a uniqu

commissioner, the general counsel over at the irs. what questions does that raise? >> well, hmm, i wonder why he did that. because they have known for months, the democrats have made it, you know, no secret, that they intended to get the president's tax returns, and they found a way ads cs contrivs it may seem to the president's attorneys to do that, and i think the president, you know, was preparing for this. and he was so eager to have someone he knew and trusted who had worked with the trump organization in the past, in that job, that he said, okay, wait, you know, let's do this first before we even get a new attorney general confirmed. so you know, you put one and one together sometimes, and you get two. >> you know, to another question that we're following right now. the president's trip, he's out in california, along the border with mexico right now. watch and listen to what he said today about people coming into the united states. listen to this. >> it's a colossal surge, and it's overwhelming our immigration system. and we can

rather, i would have indicated to the irs commissioner that i expected the irs to comply with the law as always." joining us now, very pleased to say is lawrence summers, he's the former treasury secretary under president clinton. he's former director of the national economic counsel under president obama. he currently serves as economics professor at harvard university. he also authored this opinion piece in the "washington post" making the case the current treasury secretary shouldn't stop the irs commissioner from releasing president trump's tax returns. secretary summers, thank you for joining us. it's an honor to have you here tonight. >> good to be with you, rachel. >> one of the things i found striking in your op-ped, it's very unequivocal that this is black letter law, that the irs commissioner does not have leeway to ignore this request and the treasury secretary does not have leeway to direct his irs commissioner that he should ignore this request. are you staking out a claim for the purposes of argument or are you stating something that's essentially consensus among everybo

still looks exaly the same. >> "ellen"irs the 3:00, then >> "ellen"irs the 3:00, then stay tuned at 4:0 z388pz z16fz y388py y16fy >>> all week w been working for you as you get ready to send your kids off to college in the fall, figuring out how to pay for everything being one of the most stressful things families face. >> i can only imagine. >> i'm going to be working until i'm 90. i don't kn how i'm going to pay for these kids. i still have a few years -- >> but y don't have to come up with that money all on your own. susan hogan will revealacour where you can find free money for college. >> reporter: if you are hopingr to limit y student loan debt, you're actually in luck. there are other money sources out there besides financial aid to help you pay for college. if you volunteer, ask about scholarship opportunities. for example, the peace corps offers tuition assistance at more than 90 universities and colleges for its members. parents, your employer may offer scholarship programs for your kids. and students who are also working can ask their employer if they offer solarships for t

you procrastinators out there the irs says his dispersant like all of us this first more than billion in refunds through march 29th that's actually down nearly $6 billion from the same period last year. the irs has also issued fewer refunds but that was expected under president trump's tax law and there could soon be other complications when it comes to filing taxes for next year all right so that's a lot the irs planning to release a new w 4 form that would change how you adjust your tax withholdings. >>and we are hearing from people who have seen this form that it's not going to be an easy process. so we bring in someone who knows what's going on from h and r block lewis rough lewis. thank you for your time we'll get to taxes this year, but first of all this new w for withholding it's going to go into effect for next year 2020, but people have to fill it out at the end of this year 2019 that's correct the irs says that they'll give ample time for individuals and payroll companies for example to make adjustments in preparation, we don't know exactly what that means, but we assume tha

chief counsel office laying out why they think that the irs should not turn over the tax returns. this source said the letter will raise a number of statutory and other issues, constitutional issues, trying to make their case. so what will happen from here, brooke, is the irs would likely consult with lawyers and with lawyers from the office of legal counsel, the department of justice. this source i spoke to said this person did not believe that the president's tax returns would be turned over any time soon. and an administration official speaking to my colleague jim acosta said basically this is a hill they're willing to die on. that the administration is willing to fight this all the way to the supreme court. 's kn -- as you know republicans on the hill have come out saying the tax law is weaponized and this is setting a bad precedent so as you said the fight is only beginning. >> pamela brown, thank you so much. on the tax returns fight. >>> let's get to had -- to this one. the 2020 campaign and joe biden and the issue here, allegations of inappropriate touching and making wome

it is the obligation of the commissioner of the irs. so i don't understand in law the statements being made by the white house, or the sol isidute -- the slis tude of the white house administration and i don't understand that in law at all. >> i understand your point clearly. former treasury secretary larry summers, thank you very much. >> thank you. >>> it is being called the purge. and the president denying he's cleaning house. we have compiled a list of the former administration officials who all told the president no before they got headed for the exits. more on our breaking news also this afternoon. actress lori loughlin is charged in that massive college admission scandal and facing another indictment. this involves money laundering. no matter where you are in life or what your dreams entail, a cfp professional is trained, knowledgeable, and committed to financial planning in your best interest. find your certified financial planner™ professional at letsmakeaplan.org. woman 1: this... woman 2: ...this... man 1: ...this is my bod

president, it went to the irs for your tax returns. also today, all 24 democrats in the house judiciary committee authorized the subpoena for the entire 400-page report of special counsel robert mueller. no redactions. chairman nadler says he will negotiate with the attorney general, william barr, but he insists he sees the full report without any compromises. >> are you willing to negotiate any middle ground in terms of redactions -- >> no. >> -- of the mueller -- you're not? >> no. the committee must see everything. >> according to the washington post, some democrats are more aggressive still, even more than nadler, calling for a showdown immediately. quote, many do not share nadler's patience and want the chairman to serve barr with a summons for the report right away. well, today's vote by judiciary democrats comes a day after attorney general barr missed the committee's deadline to deliver the full report. instead, barr has promised to release a partially redacted version to the public while congress is in recess later this month.

we don't know the procedure that the irs is using. that's an important matter for congress to exercise oversight even beyond president trump, for all future presidents. >> generally you're audited if there are questions about how you've done your taxes. i want to talk about mueller because you have a big push now to get more of this report out and the question is does bill barr go there and will his hand have to be forced? is it a fair argument when barr says the attorney general i'm not going to release this evidence, some because it may be sensitive, but also others because it might sully the reputations of people including the president who haven't been charged here. he's saying i don't want to be james comey saying i'm not going to charge hillary clinton but she behaved recklessly. >> that is a different standard from the starr report where the entire thing was released and made into a book that people can were much in book stores. given the good reporting that has happened in the last 24 hours there are serious questions about th

the irs is also -- that's one way through this. but there's also now subpoenas out to deutsch bank and his accounting firm. >> explain the importance of the accounting firm. >> it's significant because there's an accounting firm that he deals with on long island -- >> they've been doing his taxes from the beginning? >> from the beginning. and they were dealing with a firm they bought, they were doing fred trump's returns. this is a firm that's been dealing with donald trump since he was born. the amount of information they have about him is huge. it's important to understand that tax returns are one piece of the puzzle. you've also got -- you know, there's potential to get bank records and other general ledgers to piece together what's going on with trump and his finances. if you can't get it through the irs, there's other avenues, including deutsch, his main bank. it's like air around a balloon and i think the irs -- >> has the accounting firm said what they're going to do? >> it's been represented that they'll respond to the subp

>> i think that we september it to the irs. the irs has to stand up tall. if the irs has anyone interfere with what they're going to do, then we'll have another problem. this is not over by any stretch of the imagination. i said from the beginning, let's put it all on the table. we can common trait president very easily. what is he hiding? that's the major question. what is he hiding? for the republicans to say that this is rummaging in privacy, they have a very short history. they went after 51 people, if you remember, when they were going after miss lerner, when she was the head of the irs. >> do i remember that. and they used this very law. see, look. we're all equal. that means something. so you'd better pay your fair share. and you'd better pay your fair share. i want to know if the president does. >> do you refer to yourself in the third person, but without, you earned that title. i would think you would address yourself as congressman. >> you don't know me very well then. >> i know you a little. this very topic. it is very interesting to see what is

eric: legal right, here is the letter that is sent to the irs commissioner. let me read you a part from that. the committee conducting oversight to federal tax laws including them but not limited to the extent to which the irs audits and enforces the federal tax law against the president. under internal revenue manual income tax returns of president are subject to mandatory examination, not necessarily for the committee to determine bill of any examination. critics can point rightly so, they are asking for tax returns previous to the point to when the president was elected as president, why don't they pick up the phone or write a letter and say, getting all the tax returns themselves. >> well, it seems to me that they've asked of the president and associated to tell us and copies of tax returns and he's had reason after reason not to do that, my guess is because he overinflated his financial position to the american people or maybe he's committed bank fraud by telling banks he had more money, he tried to get loans, who knows at this point. there must be somet

then the irs reaudited him and found that, oops, well actually really does owe over $400,000. so do we know whether president trump has been properly paying his taxes and whether the audit system is working? the irs says it's auditing the president and vice president every year, but we don't know whether it's being done on a proper basis. >> so if chairman neil wins and gets his hands on these tax returns, my understanding is he's the only one who will have access to those returns. it's not like they will be made public, right? so then what? >> well, he will be able to look to see what is going on with these taxes. he can go into executive session with us, members of the house ways and means committee. but first he needs to see what is there and he will have the expertise to be able to analyze what keys are key and critical and especially whether the audits are being done properly. >> congresswoman judy chu, i appreciate you joining us. >> thank you. >> pete buttigieg getting personal about his husband. next his message for vice president pence. the risk of another heart attac

, lo que significa que tomarÁ mas tiempo 4 a 8 semana en lo que la declaraciÓn de impuesto llega al irs(impuesto sobre la renta) alguien la propesa a mano para despuÉs enviar el dinero >> opciones que tenemos en caso que ahora no podamos entregar los impuestos por la razÓn que sea. >> sabes felicidad, el irs(impuesto sobre la renta) hace una provisiÓn, las persona pueden solicitar una extensiÓn automÁtica, pero hay que tener presente que esa forma te permite extender el tiempo para entregar papeleo, si debes dinero el irs(impuesto sobre la renta) todavÍa espera que se pague en abril 15. >> bueno, entonces hay que pagar, ya presentarlos es otra cosa, para eso sÍ nos dan la oportunidad, para lo demÁs no, okay >> miguel Ángel, muchas gracias por tus consejos >> un placer estar contigo, felicidad. >> nosotros al regresar en noticias telemundo mediodÍa, pintan con sus pechos, son mujeres mexicanas que sufren cÁncer de mamas, el di tener que obtienen la destinan a la prevenciÓn de esta enfermedad >> muchas imÁgenes inÉditas de >> muchas imÁgenes inÉditas de frida kahlo se cama

mañana y este domingo habrán condicione mura ( información e) >> el domingo también será ideal para ir al parque máxima 54° >> bonito verdad ? >> ( información en pantalla) >> san josé 75° aquí está el pronóstico para los próximos 10 días >> ( información en pantalla) >> el fin de semana 60° carlos nos vamos contigo >> les cuento que las chivas tienen ocho partidos sin ganar llega el león con 12 victorias consecutivas >> les cuento que pasó >> además miles de personas inundan una ciudad en breves les contamos >> no se nos vaya que ya regresamos >> >> (♪ música )vamos a volver a los deportes >> la pregunta es cómo le fue buenas noches paola >> les fue muy bien afortunadamente a los fanáticos de américa, no habían podido ganar la últimos partido >> partidos que estará 0 x 0 pero al 15 penal al favor del américa, va ahí a cobrar emanuel aguilera >> así termina el partido 1 x 0 ganó el américa y se puso en el número siete en la tabla >> obligados a ganar para meterse en el grupo de los ochos >> superlíder chivas tenía miren cómo van a empezar miren cómo va

well, i've been covering the irs for a long long time i basically testified before congress, about irs reform and offer position for a journalist report and i told congress that and again we dug into the law and supreme court decision, trump could easily take this fight to the supreme court and possibly win. let's get to steve forbes, and so let me just steve it's great to have you on you're the perfect man for this. >> thank you. >> liz: ways and means, democrat s are saying the returns are needed to prove the irs conducting private and proper oversight and trump is being audited and trump's private interest don't influence its public decision-making and none of this is based on the law to get at his tax return? >> absolutely not and they have no evidence to justify such a request. it is as if they say oh, we have this evidence here he did this and that therefore we need to find out what's going wrong. they have none of that just a pure phishing expedition. >> liz: the supreme court already ruled watch this during the mccarthy hearings, congress can't go on a phishing expedition they

or convince the irs of that? convince who? >> they have postured their defense as a legal defense for the court. but of course, there are a couple of other forms involved. the politics. and i think that's the notion of picking on the president and the fairness of that. as far as the courts are concerned. the question of legitimate purpose, it's actually a pretty low-bar to overcome in my view for chairman neal and the ways and means committee this committee has as its jurisdiction. the review of the internal revenue service and chairman neal was can clever in crafting his request narrowly to see if the internal revenue service was properly fulfilling its functions in examining the preds and whether or not there may yet need to be legislation to insure that the internal revenue service independently evaluates the president's tax returns without influence. >> the white house says it's ready to take this to the u.s. supreme court. do you see this going that far? >> i think it could. i think another strategy here, is not just the

why do we do it with the irs? host: back to your piece, why does the government make filing your taxes intentionally difficult, do you see anything changing? guest: you mentioned senator elizabeth warren. she has been a strong proponent in simplifying tax filing. it remains to be seen. host: elizabeth zach is in sacramento. she is a contributor for a obligation known as "in these times," also staff writer for the rural community assistance corporation. thank you for your time this morning. guest: my pleasure. host: appreciate it. thanks for all of your calls as well. will be back tomorrow, sunday, for another edition of "washington journal." we are here every morning at 7:00. enjoy the rest of your day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] c-span,today on interviews with members of the house of representatives. road to the white house coverage live at 2:00 p.m

it's going to the irs commissioner. i think there are certain and really boxed off, very few people can actually see it, but i don't know -- to fight this one i think they might be facing some peril. they may try to delay it. and i agree with dana on this. the one problem is they're so overboard and 80-some subpoenas and now they're making a big deal with the tax returns and i think what happens is he does become a victim and i disagree with mr. dean in the sense that this is a little bit different and they're coming at him every way that they possibly can. at some point it's overwhelming and people think i hit 18 potholes on my way to work this morning. i'm not sure what they're doing in washington. that plays in the president's favor. that said, i think he should comply. and he shoots himself on the foot upon. >> comply, keep it compartmentalize and nancy pelosi, i think she spoke to him two or three weeks ago. the time is truncated now. essentially saying, look the democrats should not be focusing on the investigatio

so they've made the request of the irs using this section of the u.s. code. and how can the treasury secretary, steve mnuchin, how can he slow walk that? >> reporter: there are all sorts of procedural things he could do to slow up that process. but democrats on that committee have said, if they don't get a satisfactory answer from the irs by this time next week, that's the timeline that they've been giving me, then they're going to issue subpoenas and fight this in the courts, katy. but the question really is -- and as you well know, donald trump has dispensed with almost 50 years of precedent, both as a candidate and as a president in not releasing his tax returns. and so you have democrats and republicans to include lindsey graham, who make the case that the american people deserve to know if this president or any president's public decision making is influenced by his or her -- but in this case, his private interests. so did the president benefit from that huge gop tax cut? we don't know. we know that michael cohen says that donald trump has inflated his o

of a number of irs employees. but this narrowly crafted request is designed to fulfill our legislative responsibilities, can be done privately to review it to determine if there is any basis for releasing it to congress, a judgment we have not made yet. and it ought to be complied with. the republicans, of course, blocked six times over two years my motions to try to get these returns. they've had one excuse after another. the trump family may have gained as much as a billion dollars from the recent trump tax law. so he has much reason to protect himself and we have much reason to explore whether we're assuring the confidence that american people must have in the tax system and how the tax system is designed and whether it has been influenced in improper ways by the trump family trying to seek personal enrichment. clearly his businesses are very intermingled with the public trust and he apparently believes that every government official is first and foremost a trump employee rather than a employee of the american

they know what one of the fundamental principles of the irs is to protect the confidential alt of you and me and everybody else who files taxes. >> to be clear, you believe democrats will never see the president's tax returns? >> oh, no, never. nor should they. that is not going to happen, and they know it. this is a political stunt by my former colleagues. >> never is a big shift from this. >> if i decide to of course, i'll produce my tax returns, absolutely. >> i'm release, when we're finished with the audit. >> i will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes. when she releases her 33,000 e-mails, i'll release them when the you had a sit completed. as soon as that is finished whenever that may be. hopefully it's before the election. i'm fine with it. >> president trump's attorney weighing in saying democrats are trying to use the irs as a political weapon. let's check in with cnn's white house correspondent boris sanchez. tell us more about this escalating fight. >> reporter: hey there, fred. you heard the acting chief of staff nick mulvaney call this a political stunt. dem

speaking directly to the irs commissioner. he's doing it through television but he knows he's speaking to the irs commissioner when he says that. he knows he's speaking to the treasury secretary when he says that even though he's saying it on television. so this could be one of those instances where mulvaney had absolutely no idea i think from my suspicion is from your reporting tonight, we won't be hearing him say those words again. >> well, if he does, it's incredibly reckless, lawrence. and we need to keep in mind that what we're seeing going on with this administration is obstruction of justice right in front of our eyes. they're doing it out in the open thinking that that may in some way insulate them. it does not. there's no requirement that you operate in secret when you're trying to defeat the laws of the united states. >> david kay johnston, really important reporting tonight in the daily beast. everyone should grab it right now, read it right now. thank you very much for joining us. appreciate it. when we come back,

the6103, the congress can request an audit information from the irs. not requesting it from the president. it is not if the president has to turn it over, but the irs and steve mnuchin. this is setting up a conflict and if steve mnuchin is a certify ve servant of the people or of the president. >> danny, this is the only president since richard nixon who has not released his returns. they are willing to die on. that is a direct quote. what does this tell you? >> you remember president nixon said the people need to know if their president is a crook. well, i'm not a crook. but he ended up owing half a million when he was eventually audited. it is an interesting tradition. it is not required. the president is simply not going to do it. he is really likely relying on advice from tax attorneys telling him don't release your tax returns. it could result in personal consequences. the law doesn't require him to not release his returns under audit. he can if he chooses to, but he isn't going to because it would be devastating to his personal income and persona

just three days ahead of the deadline set by the ways and means committee for the irs to release six years of the president's personal and business tax returns. today the white house chief of staff says, no way. >> democrats will never see the president's tax returns. >> oh, no. never. nor should they. keep in mind, that's an issue that was already litigated during the election. voters knew the president could have given his tax returns. they knew he didn't, and they elected him anyway. which, of course, is what drives the democrats crazy. >> democratic congressman dan kildee is insisting the law allows his committee to request any tax information it desires. >> we are looking very carefully right now as to whether or not the irs is properly auditing and enforcing tax law on the president of the united states, and we're considering legislative changes toward that end. it is not up to president trump. it is not up to some lawyer that president trump hires to determine whether or not this coequal branch of government has the tools available to it to make the deliberations necessary in

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the irs has not commented on that request but the president's personal attorney slanted as political harassment. in a letter to the irs, it would be a gross abuse of power for the majority party to use tax returns as a weapon to attack, harass and intimidate political opponents. the ensuing tit for tat will be lasting damage to our nation. if the irs complies with democrats requests it would set a dangerous precedent. >> when you look at the issue on tax returns it is a dangerous precedent for committee in congress to single out one individual. when they first started saying they needed donald trump's tax returns it was determining whether there was collusion with the russians, that has been set aside. now they need to make certain he is being taxed according to our tax laws. that's not their job, that is the irs's job. >> reporter: democrats are preparing for a legal fight over the mueller report. the house judiciary committee submitted subpoenas together handle the entire report without rejections. if they are not satisfied with what the attorney general william barr releases later

the irs has been very professional. >> when the you had a sit complete i'll release my returns. i'll have no problem with it. >> i'm not releasing the tax returns because as you know they are under audit. >> they are under audit. have been for a long time. extremely complex. people wouldn't understand them. >> the first one of those from 2016, i'll release them when the you had a sit over. this is the longest audit, if there is such an audit. the longest audit. >> yeah. >> and one of the questions and one of the things that chairman neal asked for is whether or not that is actually true. the irs would no whether or not an audit is taking place and he's asked for that specifically because the president has made claims that have not been true in the past. >> i don't think the irs usually says who is being audited. >> michael cohen i think in his testimony this came up as well, and he essentially said he didn't necessarily think that the president was under audit, didn't want thing tank type people look over his taxes. >> think tank type people. we'll see how that goes. joe biden s

we going to try to find out how the irs is doing in their audit. nobody asked that question about barack obama or george w. bush. they should have just said look, we want to understand any entanglements or conflicts of interest.t this law as i understand the history came into effect in the 20s when the congress was concerned about tea pot dome and the actions of the executive. i think they have a right to ask for this information. it has to be protect and kept private. that's why they say only the chairman can ask for the information. >> that's interesting. you think the protective layer here and the concerns about it being leaked or public is that writing into law, the chairman can ask and is the one given and not congress in general? >> that's exactly right. the president is right here. he is under no obligation to make his returns public. i believe he should make them public as a matter of seeking o holding the office. until he is compelled through a different statute to make it public, he doesn't have to do that. >> mark everson who was a tax c

cnn first to report that house ways and means sent a letter to the irs wednesday. he's citing a little known section of the irs code to request the president's personal returns from 2013 to 2018. he wants tax returns from eight of the president's business entities. the president reacting with humor and a familiar excuse. >> mr. president, the chairman of the democratic ways and means committee moments ago asked the irs for six years of your tax returns. >> is that all? >> that's all. >> usually it's ten, so i guess they're giving up. until such time is i'm not under ordered, i would not be inclined to do that. >> democrats insist the request is about oversight. republicans see it as a political escalation. the ranking member of the ways and means committee, republican kevin brady sending a letter to treasury secretary steve mnuchin. weaponizing the tax code by targeting political foes, sets a dangerous precedent and weakens privacy rights. >>> "the new york times" reporting some of the special counsel's investigators have been complaining to associates that bill ba

so we expect the irs to comply with this request. i'll be clear, we will use every tool available to us to ensure that the irs does comply with this law. >> and i understand -- what does that mean? does that mean you're prepared to go to the supreme court? "the washington post" is reporting, you believe the irs should comply. the president told his advisers he doesn't want this to happen and he would fight this issue all the way to the supreme court. are you prepared for this to go to the supreme court? >> that's his prerogative, and that will be his choice. but i don't think that the chairman of the ways and means committee, richie neil who i know and have great admiration for him is going to condition whether he does his job and up holes his oath on whether or not donald trump feels like it on any particular day. we're going to do what we or charged with doing. this is an important question. not only is it important that the american public have faith that the president's personal financial interests don't somehow interfere with hi

i think we need a better resourced irs. even the congressional budget service says every dollar you get the irs saves the government money because they are able to do enforcement and bring in more dollars and we need a radical reorientation of the priorities of irs enforcement. it is shocking how much they are focusing on people who are struggling and do not have time to deal with this. there is not a lot of money there. there is a lot of money in the various loopholes and accounting shenanigans undertaken i the top 1% and corporations. that is where most of the irs enforcement attention should be and it has not been recently. where the things authors of the article got wrong was in the audit rates of the largest companies. for example, 20 billion dollars of cash flow a year. the audit rate is 58%. it is not as if the irs is not looking at these companies. the other thing is a large portion of the tax gap on the individual side of the $290 billion estimated, almost half of that is coming from the so-called schedule c filers