gone to welcome to the party 2 decades after hugo chavez won his 1st election his boley very and revolution is screeching to a halt but runaway inflation and unemployment higher than ever and millions are believed to have left. and while the world powers are now locked their president maduna should go to the bigger question is where should the country move from here to discuss that i'm now joined by rafael ramirez close ally of president chavez and the harsh critic of both president nicolas maduro and the opposition leader. mr ramirez it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time thank you think is my question in many western media you're referred to as either former oil czar or hugo chavez says dr had man i wonder how do you personally see yourself now well. i'm hearing you up but i cannot disclose for because. under persecution from the government of venezuela i used to be the oil minister for president. for years. hardly the most important post in the. hour. now i know that you had a major falling out with president maduro in 2017 you accused him of incompetence and your sup

chavez says dr had mad. i wonder how do you personally see yourself now. hearing europe. now i know that you had a major falling out with president maduro in 2017 you accused him of incompetence and power he accused you of corruption but if we try to put those personal grievances to the side what do you make all of what's happening in and around venezuela right now.

in many western media you're referred to as either former oil czar or hugo chavez's right hand man i wonder how do you personally see yourself now. hearing europe. or. the most important post. now i know that you had a major falling out with president maduro in 2017 you accused him of incompetence and there's supreme power here.

chavez well no he didn't really praise him but just to clue we came to know a man who expressed a vision to bring profound changes to his country to benefit is specially those people who had felt neglected and marginalized and once again the free media and patriots had to remind mr carter that chavez is bad and venezuela together with china and russia iran maybe turkey a little north korea definitely geez bernie better grab a pen them and more than a baddies and even if they do what america does you can't compare the 2 because you actually can't compare them it's entirely possible and even reasonable but because just don't as trump found out when asked by a journalist about president vladimir putin being a killer a lot of killers go out to kill is what you think our country so innocent rowland well it's technically right but it's not what america wants to hear one patriotic american put it and no i don't think there's any equivalently but i do think america is exceptional america is different i think there's a clear distinction here and when you're exceptional you don't have to make sens

chavez. and we all know what has happened since then. i think one element of this is disgust with the local establishment to not being responsive -- for knotting responsive with average citizens. -- not being responsive. and feeling on the part of a lot of citizens the feeling that politicians were taking care of themselves and their friends and not wearing about the average joe or jane. the second was the economic crisis in 2008 and 2009. the elites not only cannot make things happen politically. they really screwed up the global economy. and they really screwed up the american economy. come the recovery, the elites did just fine. but a lot of people who were hurt by the worst economic crisis since the depression, either took a long time to recover, or have never recovered at all. circumstances,se the disparity between what they are earning and what they see the elitist turning today is so again,hat they believe that the so-called elites are taking care of themselves and not paying much atte