if we were to do something like what we did in libya, to try to give some arms support, i don't know because i haven't done any briefings whether there's sufficient armed opposition in syria to prevail. and number two, if we did it on our own, we would almost guarantee their failure because it would look like our thing. so i know this is really frustrating. but we're in this place with syria now where i was with bosnia in 1993 and 1994. where it took us two years, i was ready to go into bosnia in '93, but i was determined not to go alone, bosnia was a part of europe and i had to persuade the other european countries to go with us. >> what do you think about russia who seems to be blocking in that area. >> what they should be thinking about is what this does to them with their own muslim minority in their southern underbelly in russia. and i think we just have to keep working there. because if -- it's all very unpredictable. but this level of -- they'll go along with the peace plan and then if they want to kill a bunch of people, they'll just go do it? >> can we do it without assaad?

. >> yes, she is, and that is the big difference to the intervention in libya one year ago. this time, there seems to be no chance of convincing the russians to go further, to go beyond what they already have in the security council. they have backed the peace plan, but they seem unwilling to use their influence over syrian president assad to up the pressure and to stop the violence. that is what many here think would be the only possibility of changing things on the ground except for military intervention. >> at the same time, military intervention -- hillary clinton has been very clearly ruling that out at this point. >> that is right. one of the reasons is is an election year and the public here is very tired of wars. they were not especially enthusiastic about the intervention in libya, although it is judged a success looking back. but they are less enthusiastic about an intervention in syria. the u.s. have good reasons not to go there. the secretary of state explained to them, they argue that intervention in syria would be much, much tougher than in libya. multiple reas

russia's opposition makes it harder to respond to the crisis in the way the international community did in libya now these comments are clearly coming in the in light of last week's massacre in houla u.s. officials are making their words much stronger just on wednesday the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. susan rice said that if kofi annan six point peace plan fails and if the security council does not agree on international sanctions on syria then countries would have to consider taking independent action without the authority of the security council what that action would be is not clear because the u.s. and european countries have already imposed their own independent sanctions on syria so those words led many to speculate that the u.s. and its allies are possibly considering military action the commander of the free syrian army he has called on joint special envoy kofi annan to publicly say that his six point peace plan that's about seven weeks old cars failed and out would allow rebels to resume their military attacks against president bashar al assad and his supporters nobody from the united na

it's harder than it was in libya to pick out the bad guys and their assets and take them down. the other kind of intervention they have explored a buffer zone that turkey might set up to help enable or arm the rebels. it's very difficult because the point is so messny so many sinister ways. they make it hard. the fight has become super hyper local. there is no coordinated army for the opposition. there is one but it's based in turkey. if you are going to try to help people on the ground, who is who? where are those weapons going? where do they end up? what are going to be the consequences? >> why the specific language out of washington, there was this notion that going in would do more harm than good. also, i heard overnight from some wonderful wonderfully accurate, wonderfully reliable syrian contacts that came out of damascus that if the u.s. or outside force would intervene, it could have a substantial backlash. assad would say we were right. this is israel trying to topple. whatever line or baloney they throw at their constituency, this would be bolt administered by any kin

libya is a good example. you know, when the administration decided to act in that case, they didn't have boots on the ground, although we have other people that may well have been there, but it was basically an ar war, much handled by our nato allies. the concern was what happens next. and we're seeing some of that instability right now in libya. it isn't necessarily focused on in the news right now, but you don't want to get arms in the hands of those who may turn it on us or turn it on our allies, so that is a concern, and it is something for us to make sure that if we do supply the opposition to the assad regime, that we're not getting it into the hands of al qaeda-connected organizations or other terrorist groups. you can't be 100% sure about that. so, the people on the ground have to be very careful, and that's one of the reasons the administration has given us an excuse for not acting really at all. and i think, as i indicated, i think we should act, act appropriately, make sure that we maintain control

unlike if libya where we had a sense of, that i don't know that we have that sense in syria. that would be critical to what our objective would be. you know, as i know as well as anybody, it's easy to get through these and then -- but what do you do once you're into it? what sort of instability does it create not only in syria, larger civil war spillover into the borders, think about the security, you think about the stability of jordan -- >> and you worry about what iran might do because -- >> iran being a proxy state. what iran might do, not just iran, but hezbollah -- >> in lebanon. >> in lebanon. and then perhaps all the way down -- >> is the idea of iran's ability to close the strait of hormuz real? >> my opinion is they could make noise to do that, take steps to do that. they might frustrate shipping for a short period of time. to close it, i don't think that's a realistic expectation, i think the international community, particularly the united states, we could overcome. >> listening to you i hear this notion the great fear is with intervention, necessary on lots of gr

agenda in syria as it was in libya and the other countries of the so-called arab spring is to create a transformation of the entire muslim world from pakistan to morocco over the period of the next several years so of course washington is not happy about a negotiated diplomatic settlement. i think the europeans are much more interested in a diplomatic resolution because they don't want rolling instability in libya today after after the nato intervention is one huge army of tribes battling tribes in the streets of tripoli and benghazi and elsewhere so it's just total chaos. and that wouldn't be at all. european stability and security as well when we talk about the relations we're seeing developing between russia and the u.s. over this clinton says that russia's failure to take a definitive stance on syria should be seen as support for said that putin directly stated he wants a cease fire from both sides is this old school bush era are you with us or against us is not it we're seeing here from the states what i think so they're talking out of two sides of their mouth when hillary clint

also mention too that we listen to asian in other countries of the region what is going on in iraq or libya or other countries in the middle east so let them be the you. have to become safer.

it is unlikely to turn into another libya involving western military action. in the first place, russia would probably block it at the un security council. even without russia, syria is a well armed state in a volatile region. an all-out war would soon involve its neighbors. plus, western powers are distracted. in the united states, the presidential election. in europe, the euro crisis, and all of them worried about afghanistan. in berlin today, the russian president denied russian arms were feeling the conflict. but all-out war could be where it is heading. >> let's look closer at russia's pivotal role in this crisis. i am joined now by the deputy director of the russian program at the carnegie endowment. people seem to be saying that the best chance we have of avoiding total civil war in syria is to get the russians to put pressure on president assad. do you think there is any chance of russia doing that? >> i think the problem for russia is that they see the sequence is exactly the reverse of that. rather than their being abuses by the government that might

it's clear syria is unlikely to turn into another libya. involving western military action. in the first place, russia will probably block it at the u.n. security council. but even without russia, there's no appetite for intervention. syria is a well armed state in a volatile region. and all-out war would involve its neighbors and western powers are distracted. the united states, the presidential election, europeans with the euro crisis and all of them worried about withdrawing from afghanistan. in paris tonight, president putin was digging in his heels. refusing to consider sanctions on syria and pointing out opposition fighters are also killing people. and the u.n. peace plan, he says, is still worth backing. bridget kendall, bbc news. >> for a closer look at russia's pivotal role in this crisis i spoke earlier with matthew reginsky, deputy director of the program for international peace. over the course of the last week, the more people i speak to about syria, they tend to be saying the best chance we have of avoiding total civil war in syria is to get the russians to put

killed in excess of twelve thousand people let's not forget when we authorize nato intervention for libya we did so when. you had nearly threatened to attack the city of benghazi which is about the size of charlotte north carolina as we know from the president's speech here we have people actually being slaughtered on the ground as you mentioned the recent houla massacre were one hundred people were killed over forty nine children that were killed the problem here becomes what to do in terms of intervention strategy so some people have suggested creating humanitarian corridors to turkey into jordan or see their c.v. zones which. could be patrolled by u.n. or nato or turkish forces the problem with that is the last time there was a safe zone was in bosnia and july one thousand nine hundred five were eight thousand bosnian muslim men were then eventually systematically slaughtered while the blue helmets stood by and essentially watched the problem is that we can't we can't see this devolve into a civil war because then it will become a regional war and the great thing about intervention is

because libya has oil and syria doesn't? >> it is part of the decision of a great power. this behave hypocritically. the secretary of the state and the president would say the same thing. there is probably more we can do. we could push the turks harder on safe zones and provide more assistance, armed assistance to the opposition. before we consider an ill-advised, ill-thought through half measure which involves american military intervention, we need to understand the consequences and the costs to us. if you break it and paul was right, you are responsible for it. we are just coming out of the two longest wars in american history. i looked at the job numbers today. this is a president with a domestic, huge domestic problem. the last thing he needs now is to get involved in an inbroeg leo and fail. >> you see zero prospects before the election. the modest steps, maybe arm the opposition and create more safe zones in cooperation with the turks and the arab zones? >> it is not pretty but frankly under the circumstances, i am not sure there is all that much he can do. under t

well, it's clear sear -- syria likely to turn into another libya, involving western military action. in the first place, russia will probably block it at the u.n. security council. but even without russia, there's no appetite for intervention. syria is a well-armed state in a volatile region, and an all-out warm would soon involve its neighbors. plus western empires are distracted. united states, presidential elections. europeans with the euro crisis. all of them worried about withdrawing from afghanistan. in paris tonight, president putin was digging in his heels. refusing to consider sanctions on syria and pointing out opposition fighters are also killing people. and the u.n. peace plan, he says, is still worth backing. bridget kendall, bbc news. >> the executive director of the middle eastern north african division of north rights watch says international diplomacy could still help reduce the violence in syria. >> everybody wants more concrete mess ures but the challenge is how to get there. how do we get russia and china not to veto security council resolutions for more concrete

assad regime will putin saying that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya he was questioning security level at this point today. well an independent un panel is to conduct an investigation into a massacre in syria which claimed the lives of more than a hundred people last week damascus blames armed opposition fighters for orchestrating it back and says they're seeking to trigger foreign military action but several western governments have expelled syrian diplomats on the atrocity russia says the horror and highlights the dangers of backing rebels in extremist elements while the west us continues to support the syrian opposition and is proposing a regime change. from the institute of democracy incorporation says the western public is not getting a full picture of what's going on in syria. the ceasefire obviously has to involve both sides what could be more sensible than what could be more reckless than to try and weighed in with a military intervention which effectively and indeed explicitly is supporting only one side namely the rebels there's a concerted p

on the assad regime we did say that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya while she was questioning the security level at this point today. and an independent un panel is to investigate last week's massacre in syria in which more than one hundred people including many children was slaughtered the massacres blames on the opposition forces were focused writing attack says the seeking to trigger foreign military action several western governments have expelled syria and that's after the atrocity. says the horror and who are the highlights the dangers of backing rebels and extremist elements find west us continues to support the syrian opposition by proposing regime change or political risk consultant and says washington's proclaimed desire for a diplomatic solution to the crisis is laden with contradiction. but you know they're talking out of two sides of their mouth when hillary clinton says we support the kofi annan plan but we want regime change which is not part of the kofi annan plan of course washington is not happy about it negotiate a diplomatic settle

pressure on the assad regime saying that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya. security level at this point today. and an independent un panel is to investigate last week's houla massacre in syria which more than one hundred people including many children were slaughtered damascus blames armed opposition fighters for orchestrating the attack says they're seeking to trigger a foreign military action but several western governments have expelled syrian diplomats after the atrocity russia says the horan who highlights the dangers of foreign backing of rebels and extremist elements the u.s. continues to support the syrian opposition and is proposing regime change political this consultant remained says washington's proclaimed desire for a diplomatic solution is laden with contradiction. but they're talking out of two sides of their mouth when hillary clinton says we support the kofi annan plan but we want regime change which is not part of the kofi annan plan of course washington is not happy about a negotiated diplomatic settlement. i think the europeans are much

well, it's unlikely syria is going to turn into another libya requiring western military action. for one thing, russia would probably block it at the security council. but even with -- without that, there is no ap he tite for it. plus western powers are distracted. the united states with the presidential election, europeans with the eurocrisis and all of them worried about withdrawing from afghanistan. in paris tonight, president putin was digging in his heels. refusing to consider sanctions on syria and pointing out opposition fighters are also killing people. and the u.n. peace plan, he says, is still worth backing. bridget kendall, bbc news. >>> richard murphy is a former u.s. ambassador to syria and to saudi arabia. i sktd if there can still be a diplomatic solution to the crisis. >> i can only hope so because as the area moves toward increasing violence, the violence we see in syria today is starting to have echoes in leabnon and threatens the stab -- lebanon and threatens the stability in jordan and perhaps even iraq and turkey. >> apart from diplomacy, what other options a

assad regime will putin saying that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya while she was questioning the security level at this point today. let's go back now to our top story that's of course the trial of egypt's ousted president hosni mubarak and talk to journalists to build true standing by for us what's been the general public's reaction to mubarak's trial then. people have lost their forgotten about it over the course the last few months because the presidential election has been occupying the news of the moment people are very anxious he is actually given quite a strict sentence and possibly an execution and this very important people people are very emotionally involved in this many people died during the eighteen days he's been charged with having these deaths so the moment all eyes are on the trial i know that but what kind of verdict and sentence do people expect. well having spoken to some of the lawyers of the victims they're saying that really he may just come out with just seventy is due to the corruption charges that he faces and he's been acc

are much more interested in a diplomatic resolution because they don't want rolling instability in libya today after after the nato intervention is one huge armed camp of tribe battling tribe in the streets of tripoli and benghazi and elsewhere so it's just total chaos. and that that wouldn't be at all amenable to the european stability and security as well the u.s. wants to essentially push an agenda that's been supported by saudi arabia and by qatar which is a it's turning into a shia versus sunni conflict within the islamic world and if you set that off you're going to have rolling instability for maybe decades in that part of the world and. divide and conquer is i think their game. but there are still to come this hour around over death row complaints in the u.s. about the cost of keeping alive people awaiting execution for some taxpayers arguing that money could pay for other much more needed services and our government has been borrowing money from private banks and putting us into debt and they're not doing anything about this so they're just standing by and watching the private b

are much more interested in a diplomatic resolution because they don't want rolling instability in libya today after after the nato intervention this is one. tribe battling tribe in the streets of tripoli. because you know where so it's just total chaos. and that wouldn't be at all amenable to the european stability and security well the u.s. wants to essentially push an agenda that's been supported by saudi arabia and by qatar which is a it's turning into a shia versus. sunni conflict within the islamic world and if you set that off you're going to have rolling instability for maybe decades in that part of the world and. divide and conquer i think their game. still to come on r t this is a death row complaints in the u.s. about the money spent on keeping prisoners on death row with power as a capital punishment arguing the cost involved could be better spent elsewhere we've got more on that also this to. our government has been borrowing money from private banks. not doing anything about that so just standing by and watching the private. chats speaks to a twelve year old internet sensat

assad regime or putin saying that this is ineffective citing our past examples for example in iraq or libya was she was questioning at the security level at this point today. security officials in lebanon say woman's been killed and at least five wounded in clashes between groups who are both pro and anti the current regime in neighboring syria this is an independent un panels to investigate last week's massacre in syria in which more than a hundred people many children were slaughtered damascus blames armed opposition fighters for orchestrating the attack and says this seeking to trigger a foreign military action but several western governments have expelled syrian diplomats after the trustee russia says the horror in houla highlights the dangers of foreign backing of rebels of extremist elements the u.s. continues to support the syrian opposition and is proposing regime change political risk consultant says washington's proclaimed desire for a diplomatic solution to the crisis is laden with contradictions. they're talking out of two sides of their mouth when hillary clinton says we suppor

the assad regime or putin saying that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya while she was questioning the security level at this point today. our european correspondent there will be times syria's opposition group says it would welcome military action in the country bug gulf states the arab league's meeting and to discuss serious crisis and last week's massacre in the town of houla with qatar and saudi arabia pledging more aid to the rebels damascus blames armed rebel gangs for the attack meantime saying they're seeking to trigger foreign intervention the u.s. which backs the opposition and favors regime change admits there are plans for military action but if president assad was to be removed there are also fears for the security of syria's large stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction which could pose a global threat if they fall into the wrong hands american policy analyst charles blair warns that these concerns must be uppermost in the minds of foreign powers. if you're all me where she has a state is to prevent the use of chemical weapons outside of th

. >> i think the other point with this, and it was the case in libya, too, is the u.s. is out sourcing part of its clandestine opportunities and you have mercenaries achbd you have these four foreign forces that are very dabbling in it. we've been down this road before and it seechseems like we're he down it. >>. >> thank you. >> so what do we know now that we didn't know last week? my answers after this. [ sighs ] forget it. [ male announcer ] there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford charcoal. kingsford. slow down and grill.  in every bag of kingsford charcoal. we charge everything else... maybe it's time to recharge the human battery. only the beautyrest recharge sleep system combines the comfort of aircool memory foam layered on top of beautyrest pocketed coils to promote proper sleeping posture all night long. the revolutionary recharge sleep system from beautyrest... it's you, fully charged. until i show them this. the new oral-b pro-health clinical brush. its pro-flex sides adjust to teeth and gums for a better clean. the new pro-health clinical brus

the assad regime or putin saying that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya while she was questioning at the security level at this point today. to a correspondent in europe syria's opposition group says it would welcome military action in the country but gulf states there obliques meeting and to discuss syria's crisis and last week's massacre the town of houla with qatar and saudi arabia more aid to the rebels to mask is blamed gangs for the attacks saying that the seeking to trigger foreign intervention and the u.s. for its part which backs the opposition favors regime change admits there are plans for military action but if president assad was to be removed the roof is syria's large stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction would pose a global threat if they fell into the wrong hands american policy on this charles blow is that these concerns must be uppermost in the minds of foreign states. if your all me where she has a state is to prevent the use of chemical weapons outside of that state or against civilians then you have two strategies the first would

this happens every time there is a question about whether we will support the opposition in libya or in bosnia and kosovo going back many years. the truth is most of the time they are proamerican and grateful for our help and we have a chance to gain an ally there as opposed to letting this situation continue to bleed. >> i'm going to drive a point brett made about iran. i would go so far as to say this is an iran proxy war are this battling with assad and syria. it would be a blow to the regime in assad goes down. >> it is run by a minority in syria. the sunny ethnic group is dominant but they may turn out to be radicals like hamas in gaza. >> i think that would be a lesser evil than the relationship assad has had with the iranians. i don't think you will get a reversion to the status quo. the iranians will have no longer have the primary client there. hezbollah will be put on its back foot as well and you have a lot of other regional interests there. the saudis, turkey. there is a reason russia isn't going to get on board because they are supplying with the iranians supplying helic

the president famously led from behind in getting nato involved in libya. why not do the same thing here? >> i think people understand the situation in is syria is different from libya. you can't say what worked in libya is going to work in syria bus for one thing in syria the rebels control no territory. who do you arm? i was just at the turkish border looking at the free syrian army. the only thing i can tell you for sure is it is not tree and it is not really an order because they are giving orders by phone and the only thing i know for sure is i think they are syrians. it is very hard to figure out what to do. and even people who are critical of governor romney who said let's arm the rebels, the reit wing and conservatives is have said as mike rubin said this week the american enterprise institute, he is sniping from behind because nobody really knows what to do. >> judy, thanks. more news watch ahead. buffers, if you see something that you -- but first, if you see something that you think shows evidence of media bias, e-mail us. we'll take a look. >>>

the assad regime admitted saying that this is ineffective citing past examples for example in iraq or libya while she was questioning the security level at this point today. a look now at some more headlines from around the world this hour there's been clashes in hamburg germany as neo nazis an anti fascist battled it out protesters trying to block a far right rally with burning barricades but it descended into fighting as the two groups met head on earlier and nazi demonstrators threw rocks at police injuring eight officers some seven hundred rioters were arrested elsewhere in hamburg more than ten thousand people how a peaceful rally against the far right march. the majority of americans warships are to be stationed in the asia pacific region defense secretary leon and that are confirmed about sixty percent of the fleet will be there by twenty twenty he insists it's not directed at china which repeatedly accuses the u.s. of just serving still waters by bolstering its asia presence. armed clashes have killed seven people and injured thirty others in north lebanon the violence is further pr