report is out to begin investigating all sorts of things, much more openly than they have. to liz' point, the context of impeachment and putting in a narrative of what happened -- what did the president do? is he lying about now? so -- >> right. >> i think one of the key things to start out with is you don't have to commit a crime to have an impeachable offense. the second article was about abuse of power. it did not talk about crime. the first article did not mention criminal code. we don't need that. what people have to understand is that yes, right now you have outlines of impeachable offenses. congress has to do is strategically fill in the facts. it's like you have the outline of a puzzle, put the facts in. they are not doing that yet. >> we should say that the house oversight committee had a big public hearing, the first of its kind talking about calling other people. felix sater is going to be testifying publicly. part of the issue to your point, liz, there is no committee and central warehouse and to your point, dan, impeachment provides a narrative frame work because the

honest reckoning, people like donald trump jr. and liz cheney and other opportunists try to score cheap rhetorical points and something that will intensify as we march toward the election. no amount of debased and news cycle trolling can obscure the moral stakes here. the president of the united states was greeted for his kickoff rally for his campaign yesterday by white supremacist supporters flashing white power signs. one reporter quoted a disillusioned gop operative who said the trump campaign is well aware of the organized participation of proud boy rallies merging into trump events. they don't care. we know how the president feels about those who marched in charlottesville. >> you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. >> it's the same president who uses all the darkest rhetoric of authoritarian nationalism to rail against the shadowy forces of internal enemies. he accuses immigrants of investing the country like vermin the way nazis talked about juice and others. this rhetoric has been made into policy on the gro

really makes you stop and take a look at what's going on here. >> liz, you've got some experience with people lying to cover things up. what is your reaction to this news? >> well, it just raises even more seriously, if you can say that, than we've seen before, the possibility if not the actuality of conspiracy between the trump campaign and the russian government to affect the election. the fact that they could be discussing a peace plan which is the -- which would be the kwid proprofor the russian help, they want to help trump, what are they getting in return, sanctions relief. one of the things we know that they're talking about is one-half of the quid pro quo. we don't know whether they're talking about the other half of the quid pro quo which is giving the polling information to allow the russians to interfere. if this gets -- his lying about this suggest that is there's something very serious that's being covered up. that's what we saw in watergate, cover-up. why were they covering up, criminality. what's been covered up here? we don't know. but my hunch is criminality and v

nation are begging for political leadership. >> very quickly liz holtzman, is that the big concern that the democrats will have this testimony on the books and then will do nothing? because what else could they possibly have in order if they're going to proceed on impeachment? they've got mueller now talking. >> right. i think if he makes the point clearly, the democrats really have a responsibility to the constitution and to the american people to start the process. you don't need to show a crime, you need to show a high crime and misdemeanor, in other words, an assault on our democracy by the president, an abuse of his power. >> yeah. >> i think there is ample evidence of that. >> yeah. >> that is the kind of case that needs to be made. >> yeah. >> because otherwise our democracy is in danger. >> indeed. david jolly, liz holtzman, thank you very much. >>> up next, the president's continued attacks on the four congresswomen of color. william barber is here to talk about racist comments coming from the nation's highest office right after this. these folks, they don't have time to g

from liz cheney, the chair of the house republican conference as well as a slew of presidential candidates starting with kirsten gillibrand who tweeted simply you are a disgrace. resign. nbc news tried to get king to clarify his rape and incest comments this afternoon. >> nbc news. excuse me, excuse me. your comments, what were you trying to say? your comments have -- >> your colleagues have talked about you resigning. they're asking for your resignation. what do you have to say, sir? sir? what were you trying to say? what was your point? >> he's got a call here. >> rape and incest. what were you trying to say, sir what was your point? >> thank you, thank you. >> what do you have to say? >> thank you. >> why did he clam up all of the sudden? joined by journalist laura bassett who covers the intersection of politics and reproductive rights and has written for outlets including "the washington post," huff post and gq. laura, i don't even know what question to start with, but i will start with this one. steve king, the view he articulated why abortion should be illegal in all cases

a lot from kevin mccarthy or liz cheney going after -- >> we have watched the republican party lose any shred of its dignity it used to have on some of these issues. nothing is surprising. it is disturbing. the next time there is the slightest hint of controversy from a democrat, you can be sure the exact same people are leaping all over it. it's really disturbing, a moment we're at. the agenda in 2020, we have to change the direction this country is headed. >> thanks for being with me, jeremy ben-ami. >>> i will start with you because you've been writing a lot about this, about the discourse around anti-semitism and pluralism and the controversy of jews, a very diverse group and how high the stakes are for american jews to have functioning pleuralistic diverse democracies and opposition to what trump stands for. >> what we learned today, trump in a fundamental way sees jews much the same way he sees black americans or arab americans or hispanic americans, they are fundamentally not american in the same way white christians are. >> right. >> that belief understandably alarms the maj

liz, thank you for joining me. for more on the impeachment question, i'm joined by katie hill who is a democrat. i've been thinking about you and other members of the freshman group. you are in districts that are not dem plus ten or six. you have a lot of republicans, conservatives in your district. what are you hearing from the folks in your district about this question of the president and congress and impeachment? >> it's really tough. i have been talking with my staff about this. they are the ones getting the phone calls constantly. i'm going to go back to the district for this work period. i'm leaving to go back home tomorrow. our calls coming into the office have reversed in the trends. we were getting about two to one in terms of the number of calls opposing impeachment and telling us to stop the investigation. now we're getting three or four to one saying, we need to be moving forward. this is getting too out of hand. the balancing act that i'm facing and that my colleagues are facing is that we do need to move as deliberately as possible. we need to exhaust every single o

being named in the lawsuit is republican strategist, liz mare. devyn g. nunes and his mom and cow. did you know this was coming? >> no. i actually was sitting at my kids' karate practice not paying attention to my phone and when i got home prepared to eat dinner i started getting phone calls from people about a lawsuit. so, no, i didn't. but here we are and i guess life moves forward, right. >> people say mean things on the internet about other things or joking or snide things. why you? why are you named in this lawsuit? >> i don't think i'm personally equipped to have any real insight into what goes on in devyn nunes mind. you would probably have to have him on your show and ask him point blank. i also am not going it get into discussing the lawsuit itself or his pleadings. obviously i'm a dftd in this and we will have a response forthcoming. but i don't want to get into the actual lawsuit itself. very happy to talk about the first amendment implications of course. >> just so people know the kind of thing that he is saying is defamatory, that he's suing you over. this is a tweet

big rhetorical and substantive decision and will be big in the debate. >> i think liz smith who did a tweet the other day, pete buttigieg mentioned him the least. our strategy is to introduce people and talk about our plans and tell uss. they will get more specific, i'm sure, as the months go on if he keeps this. that is an interesting strategy to sort of -- i just need you to know who i am and what i want to do for you. >> what's interesting is there is a pack mentality. in those situations, can you say i'm going to do something, but you are live in the moment around a lot of people. everyone had this experience in a meeting, the group is moving in one direction and that will be an interesting test as well. >> when i talked to obama-trump swing voters, they have trump fatigue and specifically democrats. they will call out candidates who are too anti-trump. a few of them are hot on john hickenlooper because of the fact they see him as not being anti-trump. voters being hot on john hickenlooper. >> if you voted for trump, it feels like a personal attack. he's the worst president ever.

liz holtsman, former congresswoman who served on the house judiciary committee that voted to impeach richard nixon. whose book is called "the case for impeaching trump." curt, nbc news think and "usa today" contributor and former spokesperson for the house oversight committee who has a pete out today entitled, "what would republicans do with a mueller report? build an impeachment case." thank you all for being here. all right. i'm going to go in order of the impeached. i'm impeached. i'm going to go right back to the richard nixon impeachment. the idea that how impeachment confers positive political benefits on a president who is subjected to it, what do you make of that argument. >> well, i just want to go back to the nixon impeachment because people go to the clinton impeachment and they stop there and they don't remember about nixon. the fact of the matter is that congress was initially very reluctant to move forward with the nixon impeachment. it started with an inquiry. nobody knew what the grounds for impeachment were when we started. it was because the president fired

vile remarks from congresswoman liz cheney suggesting that talib was trying to delegitimize israel. among her supporters is congresswoman ilhan omar. they are the only two muslim american women in congress and have had each other's backs as they have each endured a series of attacks. today congresswoman omar along with her jewish colleague wrote an op-ed in building alliances and for an end to bigotry. ilhan omar is here with me now. congresswoman, i want to talk about your op-ed but first i want to ask how you given the experience you've had in the sort of center of firestorms, how you are interpreting what is happening with respect to your colleague's comments? >> hi, chris. it's really good to be here with you. i tell my sister, rashida talib, her and i have the strength to endure any of the mischaracterization or efforts to distort and vilify our message. i think we are seeing what happens when people really see these attacks for what they are. it is designed to silence sight line and sort of almost eliminate public voice of muslims from the public discourse. i'm excited we hav

the issue that liz describes of his just having a totally inappropriate response to the russian hacking. her book is a litany of really terrific examples. if you -- your benchmark is nixon, even by nixon standards, the sky is ripe. >> part of the issue is this basic conceptual question we keep coming back to. what are we talking about? what is the thing that's an impeachable offense? is that the category of the federal criminal code? >> no, definitely not. definitely not. you don't have to, the whole nixon impeachment never mentioned violation of a single statute. it's really important to understand that. never mentioned the violation of any statute. >> why not? why that choice? >> because we don't want to be bound, congress can't be bound by the criminal law. >> because it's a completely different proceeding. >> correct. not only different proceeding, but the idea is an impeachable offense is an egregious abuse of power, misuse of the power of the office of the presidency, and that's the key. >> that's the deep constitutional question. i will note that one of the articles of im

can't fire or threaten to fire, and there's a tv camera watching. let's see what happens. >> liz holtzman and michael waldman, thank you both. >>> no end in sight for the trump shutdown, the president says he's prepared to keep the government closed, this is serious, he says this, for months or even a year. potential breaking points in two minutes. ♪ there goes our first big order. ♪ 44, 45, 46... how many of these did they order? ooh, that's hot. ♪ you know, we could sell these. nah. ♪ we don't bake. ♪ opportunity. what we deliver by delivering. if these packs have the same number of bladder leak pads, i bet you think bigger is better. actually, it's bulkier. always discreet quickly turns liquid to gel, for drier protection that's a lot less bulky. always discreet. uh uh - i deliverberty the news around here. ♪ sources say liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. over to you, logo. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ amazon prime video so when you say words like... show me best of prime video into this... you'll see awe

right. robert reich and liz holtzman, thank you. we have more breaking news, we'll be back in 60 seconds. >>> we continue to cover tonight's big breaking news, special counsel robert mueller wrote to the attorney general, william barr, to complain that barr had characterized his report in a misleading way. i want to turn now to democratic congresswoman, ajit pai of washington, who's a member of the house judiciary committee. what does this do to your sense of william barr's performance as the attorney general of the united states? >> it's completely shocking. and i have to say, i have been studying what barr has said, first when he released the four-page report, his report, second, when he did the press conference before he released the redacted report and that was going to be my line of questioning for thursday, was the inconsistencies between what he said and what the report says. now with this news, it is just very, very clear that barr had one goal, and that was to cover-up and reinterpret mueller's report. now to see that mueller has sent a letter and that in fact, barr said

bad things for this country. >> all right. robert reich and liz holtzman, thank you. we have more breaking news, we'll be back in 60 seconds. we we'll be back in 60 seconds. biopharmaceutical researchers. driven each day to pursue life-changing cures... in a country built on fostering innovation. here, they find breakthroughs... like a way to fight cancer by arming a patient's own t-cells... and a new therapy that gives the blind a working gene so they can see again. because it's not just about the next breakthrough... it's all the ones after that. >>> we continue to cover tonight's big breaking news, special counsel robert mueller wrote to the attorney general, william barr, to complain that barr had characterized his report in a misleading way. i want to turn now to democratic congresswoman, ajit pai of washington, who's a member of the house judiciary committee. what does this do to your sense of william barr's performance as the attorney general of the united states? >> it's completely shocking. and i have to say, i have been studying what barr has said, first when he released

liz cheney when the president discussed us withdrawing from afghanistan. >> part of it is that, right. good point. >> i don't know how seriously it is when they raised their hand and when it comes to protecting the constitution, they will not raise their hand to criticize this president under any circumstances. they're hawks in every way, shape and form. so i don't think this is an opportunity to justify or legitimate their world view. but in this particular instance when you see what the kurds have done for us over the last five years, we had a precipitous withdrawal from iraq and it was the rise of isis as a land-holding entity, and it was with a partnership with the kurds that we were able to beat them back. right now there is over 11,000 isis prisoners. god knows what is going to happen to them. if you had told me a month ago the president would be openly seeking china's help in his next election and aiding and abetting isis prisoners, i would say you're out of your mind but here we are. >> yeah, we should note that laura seligman says all defeat isis operations have been h

democrats who attack the president are republicans -- >> liz cheney to her credit has stood up and i applaud her for that. we need to have more standing up and saying do not ipumpugn thes career pa career patriotic public servants. >> siit's certainly not the pla for career service, foreign service to set the precedent. as someone who worked as a lawyer for president barack obama, white house council's office, what do you say to that? >> look, obviously the president under our constitution gets to set the foreign policy of the united states, but it has to be in service of american interest and public interest. and the problem here is from congress to the executive branch, to democrats to republicans there's broad agreement the american interest is in a non-corrupt, pro-democratic western aligned ukraine. the only person who's pushing against that right now is donald trump. and if he were doing that for some legitimate public interest, he'd center the right to do that. but if he's doing it for a corrupt interest, doing it to help his political campaign or personal interest, that's not

camera watching. let's see what happens. >> liz holtzman and michael waldman, thank you both. >>> no end in sight for the trump shutdown, the president says he's prepared to keep the government closed, this is serious, he says this, for months or even a year. potential breaking points in two minutes. getting more for getting away. traveling lighter. getting settled. rewarded. learn more at the explorer card dot com. >>> the president is now threatening to keep the government shut down for months or even years. he said it himself at his press conference this afternoon. >> mr. president, senator schumer came out and said that the meeting from his point of view, and speaker pelosi's was contentious which he also said you said in the meeting, him quoting you, that the shutdown could go on for months or even a year or longer. did you say that? >> i did, i did. absolutely i said that. i don't think it will, but i am prepared. >>> remember, this shutdown is all over funding for a mythical and perhaps metaphor call, though not clear, border wall with mexico that trump repeatedly promised mexico

was on vacation while he was. from members of both parties, including house conference chair liz cheney who called on his to resign and a lot of king's constituents are not so happy with him either. >> do you still stand by your defense of your rape and incest comments by saying that no one can argue with the factual basis? >> we've on seen, heard and read all the comments that you've made from saying that we have calves the size of watermelons from smuggling marijuana, from the quote you said about installing electric fences along the border. they use them on cattle. it will work on immigrants. all those other things you've said that have been very demeaning against people of my color. you also said we cannot reveal civilization with other people's babies? my baby's not good enough to rebuild civilization? >> you have no significance in congress. it is now time for us to elect -- who will represent our community. >> but if you thought that town hall was rough, just wait until you hear about this one. that's thing two in 60 seconds. >>> congressman steve king has faced a wave of

me start with you, liz. on just this roll out. i have to say, i was a reporter in washington for years and standard operating procedure, some big document is coming out. an indictment, a report. you get it 10 to 15 minutes before the press conference and you sit there going through to prep your questions. that's standard. that's hurried and it gives the people unrolling it a leg up because they continue better than you do. i have never ever heard of a press conference on a document that no one gets to see until after the press conference is over. >> they are desperate to control this news. this news is going have something very bad in it for the president of the united states and what we are seeing, sad, sad, sad, to use three trump words is the attorney general of the united states who is the attorney general for all the people acting as a political hatchet man for the president of the united states. ultimately this cover up is not going to work. ultimately the people of the united states are going to see what's in the report and what the facts are. >> what's weird about it, it'

. >> it's interesting because -- this is something ee liz elizabeth warren talked about. she was coming on the heels of a historic woman candidate who lost badly. she told the story, just as a side story, of how people told her the state is not ready, don't do it. she has had that experience of coming in as a candidate when a major female candidate has flamed out previous and all of the anxiety about it. i think it's important to remember, if we think back in 2007, there was a lot anxiety about whether obama could -- a among of the democrats. remember. >> no, my facial expression is, yeah, among black democrats. >> black democrats until he won in iowa when it was like, wait. then you saw the move from hillary clinton to barack obama. we have to get further into the debates, listening to how people respond to each other before we can take the temperature. >> i should note -- we're putting this category of white men and buttigieg is in it, an out gay man, his husband there. it's barrier breaking and new and remarkable. >> he is young. there's a lot of stuff. there is within that category of

dellinger. liz, let me start with you. on the constitutional principles stated by the congressman, which i don't think i was quite familiar with, how do you read the idea? let's put the facts aside and just have a thought experiment. a president is essentially running the presidency solely as a for-profit operation. let's say even he owns a defense contractor and he's just funneling tens of billions of dollars a year into his pocket. is that a violation of the constitution? is that a violation of the law? is that impeachable? >> it's a violation of the constitution. if you go back and read what the framers were worried about, they were very worried about two things with regard to the president in terms of corruption. they were worried that foreign governments would bribe the president. they saw a king of england being bribed by a king of france. they said this is not going to happen here. so it was a prohibition. congress could say yes, but this president has never gone to congress to ask for congress' permission even though governments from saudi arabia, from romania, other count

threaten to fire, and there's a tv camera watching. let's see what happens. >> liz holtzman and michael waldman, thank you both. >>> no end in sight for the trump shutdown, the president says he's prepared to keep the government closed, this is serious, he says this, for months or even a year. potential breaking points in two minutes. ♪ [ dog snoring ] baxter. it's bedtime. peace of mind should never be out of reach. [ voice command beep ] xfinity home. xfinity home connects you to total home security you can control from anywhere on any device. and it protects you with 24/7 professional monitoring. i guess we're sleeping here tonight. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. call, go online or demo in an xfinity store today. >>> the president is now threatening to keep the government shut down for months or even years. he said it himself at his press conference this afternoon. >> mr. president, senator schumer came out and said that the meeting from his point of view, and speaker pelosi's was contentious which he also said you said in the meeting, him quoting you, that the shutdown could

disclosed -- >> not in the trump tower. they specific liz aally asked yt contacts you had and you didn't answer that. >> i don't believe i was asked that question. >> you were asked any communications with the campaign and you said apart from writing papers and putting up yard signs, you said no. i have the transcript to the conversation here. >> sure, i might have been -- i think i was at trump headquarters or the campaign headquarters. >> august 3rd, 2016, usable, don junior. >> we were there to talk about iran policy. >> don't you think that's important to disclose. >> i did. >> you didn't. we just went through the testimony. there is no mention of the trump tower in august 2016, there is not. >> i don't know if they got the transcript wrong. >> they got the transcript wrong. >> i don't know. i remember -- >> this is a problem for you because we know robert mueller has got a lot of guys for lying to the authorities and not telling the whole truth. is that a problem now if you accidently didn't tell them that could come back and haunt you? >> i fully co-operated and haven't hear

going to be a big decision in the debate. >> liz smith who has been working tweeted the other day said people mention trump the least of all the candidates. >> he is on the lower end of the spectrum. >> she was like our strategy is introduce people to who we are and talk about our plans and policies. obviously they'll get more specific as the months go on if he keeps this wave but i think that is an interesting strategy to sort of, for certain candidates, i just need you to know who i am and what i want to do for you. >> what is also interesting is there is a pack mentality. in those situations you can go in saying i'm going to do something but live in the moment you're around a lot of other people. everyone has had this experience. all of a sudden the group is moving in one direction and that'll be an interesting test as well. >> when i talked to obama trump swing voters they have so much trump fatigue and specifically with democratic candidates they will call out candidates who they think are too anti-trump. i was in erie, pennsylvania earlier this month. a few of them were real

the president -- >> frankly, liz cheney to her credit has stood up and called them to task for that. i applaud her for doing that. we need more republicans standing up and saying do not impugn these career public patriotic servants. >> ian, one of the arguments i've seen on the table that people have begun to make is that the president gets to set his foreign policy. it's not the place for career diplomats, foreign service, civil service to set the president's priorities. basically it amounts to if you're president, they let you do it. someone who worked as a lawyer for president barack obama in the white house counsel's office, what do you say to that? >> well, look, obviously the president under our constitution gets to set the foreign policy of the united states, but that has to be in service of the american interests and the public interest. the problem is from congress to the executive branch from democrats to republicans, there is broad agreement the american interest is in a noncorrupt pro-democratic western-aligned ukraine, not a corrupt russian-controlled ukraine. the only per

liz cheney and lindsey graham and people proponents of constant military intervention in the region that has been disastrous and costly to the folks in the e are john first and foremost, to americans, to american lives, to american treasure and are saying there's always the argument to stay, what makes this different to those people -- to people that are thinking that way? >> there's two separate things, chris. first of all, when trump said he's ending the wars in the middle east, this is a flat lie. he actually increased the troops since may by 14,000 by which 2,000 of them were sent recently to defend the dictators of saudi arabia. so the war in yemen is a disaster and catastrophic war led by saudi arabia and enabled and endorsed and helped by the trump administration. this is a different war. the iraq war was a war of choice where the united states led a regime change in iraq with motivation that we all were critical of. the syrian uprising, this is a different issue. the people of syria, the nation, the syrian people stood up in the streets in 2011, demanded democracy and dignit