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, cub fighters." criticism to launch recapture mosul. a kurdish commander says he doubts the u.s. will be able to train 25,000 iraqi forces in two months. and iraq's defense minister is stunned the pentagon is showing its hand to the enemy by announcing the timeline. but a senior military official tells "the washington post" the u.s. hopes many isis fighters will leave iraq's second largest city before the offensive begins. >> let's bring in nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel live from istanbul and bill neely. richard, let's start with you. what's the latest in the proposed mosul offensive that seems to be shocking everybody from generals in baghdad, the announcement of it at least, to john mccain in washington, d.c.? >> i think we're seeing a lot of confusion, frankly. centcom had a series of leaks telling reporters that this offensive was going to come that it could come in april, maybe even before april. that it would involve 25,000 troops and that kurdish peshmerga fighters were going to work hand in glove with the iraqi army and that maybe some american groun

get there. as we were driving into mosul i remembered that it was going to be my son's birthday. >> it's kirk's birthday tomorrow. >> scott often talked about his son kirk so i knew that he was a loving father. >> he has his mom's eyes. >> dad's nose. >> stubborn. >> there's a down side to being a father with a family and still covering wars. it was necessary to go back in and report firsthand on what was going on because there was no other foreign correspondents covering the north at that time. in this remote corner of northwestern iraq, turkish is quite widely spoken, as is kurdish and arabic. i had contacts and i covered the ground in tal afar and we had enough daylight to get to tal afar but we had difficulty finding a taxi driver. >> whenever they heard the word tal afar they were making the movement, no, no, no. >> mujahadeen. >> we could hear that word mujahadeen, mujahadeen, mujahadeen. the mujahadeen is a generic term which americans think of as insurgent or taliban or al qaeda or whatever, but they see themselves as muslims defending their country. that should have set

additional connection here. you commanded battalions in both mosul and afar. flash forward to this summer and both those cities have fallen to isis. what does that mean to you personally and to those troops that you've lost? >> well it's very disturbing disappointing. not surprising given the leadership at the time of the iraqi prime minister maliki. who really had politicized the military, he had replaced the competent commanders with his cronies, and basically not funded the military for training, and you know when we saw the islamic state start to make their move towards mosul, you know, the state of the force there, they weren't willing to risk their lives for that prime minister. now, he's been shown the door. there's new leadership in iraq. there's a collaboration between the iraqi armed forces and the kurds. and i would say that now our role is to help them to defeat the islamic state in iraq. i think we've taken some actions here in recent months to better prepare ourselves for that and i look forward to seeing that be successful. >> congressman, you're one of the real leaders, th

and possibly even american ground troops could launch an assault to retake the iraqi city of mosul from isis fighters as early as april. this news arrives on the same day that a new poll shows for the very first time a majority of americans now favoring the use of ground troops in the fight against isis. it caps a week in which war rhetoric has dramatically ratcheted up. a senior u.s. official from u.s. central command told nbc news pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski that as many as 20,000 iraqi military and kurdish forces could be involved in the operation to retake mosul, iraq's second largest city. the official said that if needed, u.s. ground forces, including special operations forces and forward air controllers used to call in air strikes could also be involved in the operation. eerily, arriving on the same day, worried that for the first time, a majority of americans would support u.s. ground troops in the battle against isis, according to a cbs news poll. 57% now favor using u.s. ground troops against isis. that support represents an increase. 47% in october of last ye

mosul. at many as 20,000 iraqi troops could be involved in the assault along with u.s. air power and possibly u.s. ground troops as well but it's also several months away. so why start talking about it now? richard engel is nbc's chief foreign correspondent in istanbul, turkey this morning. richard, good morning. >> reporter: good morning. it's good to talk to you. first about that deal that has finally been put to paper between the united states and turkey to train a relatively small number of syrian rebels. they would get some training get some money. radios. they would get some vehicles. potentially pickup trucks with machine guns mounted on the back but a lot of analysts here in turkey say it is too little, too late and i think you hit on the key question in your introduction there. what are they really supposed to be doing? the united states wants them to be fighting against isis. turkey wants them to be fighting against isis and bashar al assad. bashar al assad wants to be fighting against isis and the rebels, so what exactly is their role and will they be strong enough to real

the second largest city in iraq. officials are now saying battle for mosul will likely begin in the spring and involve up to 25,000 iraqi fighters. here at home 19-year-old man from minneapolis has been indicted for allegedly trying to help isis. he's pulled off a plane in november while trying to fly to turkey. with us now former supreme allied commander at nato retired u.s. navy admiral james stravitis, the dean of the fletcher school of law and diplomacy and live from istanbul turkey richard engel, and as i said we also have david ignatius. richard, let me begin with you. you're there. we've got a lot of motion but do you see positive movement forward over the past couple of weeks a lot of different announcements from the white house talking about sending drones to other country, arming syrian rebels now training syrian rebels. aren't these the same rebels that have had trouble over the past couple of years making any gains? >> well, first on the syrian rebels piece. turkey and the u.s. finally signed a deal that would allow syrian rebels to be trained here in turkey. but we're t

posted online late on thursday, last week, showing isis fighters laying siege to the main museum in mosul using sledge hammers, saws, drills and thing they can use. they are destroying statues, icons, frescos. this priceless cultural heritage of some of the earliest human civilizations on earth. this footage, i have now seen this ten or twelve times, and it is still difficult for me to watch this. especially with the voice over and the guys on bragging about what it is they're destroying. talking with glee. i said there is a silver lining. it may be that some experts that watched this footage since it came out, they now say they believe much of what you can see being destroyed in this video is not real. it's not the original artifacts. the give away appears in some stills like this. you see the odd straightish lines, like a spine in the statue they topped over. that appears to be repar. like the bar you see on construction sites. it is a modern construction material, not an ancient one. that rebar seems to be evident in these photos, and the way some of them just pulverize when hit, they

mosul, using sledgehammers and drills and anything they could get their hands on shows isis fighters and supporters destroying statues and icons priceless cultural heritage of some of the earliest civilizations on earth. dating back thousands of years. this footage, i have seen it ten, 11 or 12 times and it is still difficult for me to watch this. especially with the voiceover and these isis guys on camera bragging about what they are destroying knowing how valuable it is and talking with glee how happy they are to be destroying it all. i said there is a silver lining. the silver lining maybe that some experts who have watched this footage since it came out they now say they believe much of what you can see being destroyed in the video is not real. it is not the original artifacts. give away appears in some stills like this one. you see some sort of odd lines there? you can see a dark sort of a spine inside the statue they have toppled over? what that appears to be the straight lines in that picture, that appears to be rebar, like the bars you see on construction sites when they are work

battle plan to retake mosul from isis. the second largest city in iraq. a plan to retake that. that would involve potentially u.s. ground forces. here's what secretary carter had to say about that in afghanistan just a little while ago. >> of course i'm open. i'm always open to advice from our military commanders about what the best way to achieve success is. >> as all of this plays out around the world, there are also very real concerns here in the united states this morning about fighting the threat of terrorism on our shores. another shutdown is looming. this one that would eliminate homeland security funding. funding for that cabinet department. the deadline to keep the department of homeland security open is this coming friday. that means six days for congress to act before that clock and that money that comes with it runs out. many moving parts to get to on these stories this morning. let's go first to nbc's kristen welker who joins us live from the white house. so kristen, this surprise visit by the new defense secretary to afghanistan. what is the goal the administration's h

mosul. we're going to train them or form a new government and this one is going to really be the inclusive one. we keep hearing the same kind of slogans and mottos about what the iraqi state should be. somehow it doesn't develop. you have to sort of wonder at what point you try something else? >> well, i mean, i don't think we're ready to sign on to dismembering the iraqi state. i mean show me a change of international borders there, and i'll show you another war. >> right. >> so i'm not there yet, but i'm certainly there with the idea that the sunnis have never accepted a shia-led iraq. after all, it would be the only shia-led state in the entire arab middle east. you have to remember even though the sunnis are only some -- the arab sunnis that is are only some 20% of iraq. they feel a kind of strategic depth going right back into morocco because they only -- only sunnis run arab governments in the middle east with the exception of syria. so there's a real problem there. there's been a real problem for a long time. this sectarianism didn't just start recently. it's been around.

over 60,000 american rifles alone. taking the-second division headquarters in mosul. they have more than enough -- >> 60,000? >> 60,000. >> in one capture? >> yes, during the operations where they took mosul and chaam spiker. vehicles. hundreds of humvees. they're also supplying themselves with whatever they can get out there. it's isis. they can take what they want. >> thank you for being with me this morning. >>> after the break we'll look at the other headlines making news this morning, including the house vote to tighten the visa waiver program. >>> a little later on, who is "times" person of year? there was a wide range of candidates, as we mentioned earlier, it was not donald trump who took the title. we'll talk about "times" assistant managing editor about their choice of german chancellor angela merkel. take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge. marie callender knows that a any occasion feel

to retake the northern city of mosul. this morning the white house press secretary predicted an iraqi success. >> they will be backed when they undertake the operation, backed by american military air power and that will give them an advantage on the battlefield. the president has a coalition of more than 60 countries that are part of the effort and we have made important progress and over the course of the year we'll make progress as the iraqi forces get better trained and equipped and perform more effectively on the battlefield. >> recent videos released by isis show the death of iraqis and a jordanian pilot. >>> and covering breaking news from the white house, the obama administration said the justice department will seek a stay while they appeal a federal judge's ruling blocking white house programs. >> we believe when you evaluate the legal merits of the argument there is a solid legal determination for the president to do to take the steps to take care of the immigration system. it is how previous presses have used their executive authority and that is why we'll continue to use

mosul, you have to go through tikrit first. it's a great first step. hopefully it would prove to work itself out, but there's still a lot of iffyness about this. >>> steve clemmons is this a sign the strategy is working, that coalition forces can defeat isis? >> well no it's not. this is basically showing that the underlying tensions between the abbadi government which depended on iranian support and shyite militias were unable to bring any sunni forces and sunni young men en masse into that fight. they remain skeptical. mosul is untakable without the sunni participation. if this was a staging ground for mosul, while it may look good today, it ultimately is a failure, because the broader equation has not yet been put together to bring that country back together. >>> mr. bucci, your thoughts on what the united states needs to do at this point. >> well the united states needs to do more than just provide air support. they need to help the iraqi government do exactly what my colleague just said. they've got to get the sunnis involved. they can't do this with just the shia militias who ar

because a spring offensive is underway to take back the iraqi city of mosul from isis fighters and it could involve american boots on the ground. a senior official from the military central command said the move would be a last resort. u.s. ground and special operations forces would join as many as 20,000 iraqi military and kurdish forces as early as april. this would give u.s. officials time to train the iraqi and kurdish fighters. president obama has previously said that he would be willing to authorize ground troops if necessary. the u.s. is considering providing air support, intelligence and logistics. some 2,000 isis fighters are occupying mosul. >>> a new cbs news poll shows for the first time more than half of americans support boots on the ground in the fight against isis up from october when 47% were in favor of the strategy. >>> an nbc news/marist poll released last week showed 66% of americans in favor of boots on the ground. >>> health officials in california are trying to reassure the public this morning, they say there is no threat to public health from a superbug the cd

which was barely on its feet after ten years of war. it was there, in the iraqi city of mosul, that isis leader abu al baghdadi declared himself the kalive of the islamic state founding a terrorist state across syria and iraq armed with american weapons. his man took from the iraqi army, which all but collapsed in fear. now, the u.s. is being dragged back into war in the middle east. it hopes to stand the iraqi army back up and send it into battle to take back mosul with the help of kurdish fighters from northern iraq. the u.s. military says some american ground troops may be needed to lead the charge. taking mosul will not be easy. especially since isis has had months to prepare for the battle. the real question is what is the wider strategy for stability in iraq and syria and now libya? stability that would truly deny isis a home. this remains the hard question, and this administration has yet to offer a convincing answer. and, chuck several u.s. military officials who i've been speaking with have privately expressed a great amount of frustration at what they see as a lack of clar

"the new york times" is reporting this planned soif offensive against isis to retake mosul in iraq. that could begin in april or may. two senators say, quote, never in our memory can we recall an instance in which our military has knowingly briefed our own war plans to our enemies. these disclosures risk the success of our mission and could cost the lives of u.s. and iraqi coalition forces. what's the white house reaction to this? >> reporter: it's interesting. white house press secretary josh earnest was asked about this very issue on friday. he wouldn't comment on that centcom briefing or confirm that that briefing occurred wouldn't confirm the accuracy of the details and the times you cited. earnest would only say the defense department is working closely with iraqi security forces to train and equip them and said any offensive would begin only when iraqi security forces are ready. but this is the big question. will ground troops be needed to call in air strikes? the air strikes will be critical to any offensive operation. and the obama administration continues to insist they're

surprising detail a plan to retake the city of mosul, isis' stronghold there in iraq. the plan as many as 25,000 iraqi troops for an april offensive. now "the daily beast" is reporting the military that has scrubbed that plan and say any offensive would have to wait till the fall if not later. the pentagon press secretary said yesterday, quote, i just can't put a date certain on there and say thanksgiving going to happen at a certain time nor am i prepared to rule something out and tell you definitively, well, april is out. joining me now, foreign affairs reporter mikey kay, former adviser to the ministry of defense. there was so much to be said about this information getting out there. a lot of people disturbed about that senators mccain and graham were appalled by it. but ultimately, was april even a realistic plan to get these 25,000 soldiers up and running and capable of taking on isis? >> like with all of this there are a number of different components in terms of what would shape and guide the retaking of mosul. isis have been in mosul since june last year. whether it happens in

, they were in fallujah. we kicked them out of fallujah. they were in mosul. we kicked them out of mosul. >> it's a big part of iraq and syria. it looks like a country developing there. it's got its own militia running its place, it's building loyalty under sharia law because those sunnis would rather have that, apparently, that the militias from baghdad. >> i would argue that isis is more of a political project rather than religion. they are tapping into islamic theology and islamic history. the idea of merging the two feasts that persisted at the time of the second crusades of aleppo and mosul, this is very powerful in their propaganda and their narrative. but the guys at the top, a lot of them are true believers in jihadism but a lot of them come from the guys of saddam hussein, that went from military fatigues, drinking wine and having eight mistresses to being with the long black beard. a lot of guys that went through that program said, forget about it. >> so they come from sweet deals with the older saddam hussein, they are kicked out by the de-ba'athification program so they find

that that would be a mistake. not because our military could not march into mosul or raqqah or ramadi and temporarily clear out isis, but because we would see a repetition of what we've seen before which is if you do not have local populations that are committed to inclusive governance and who are pushing back against ideological extremes, that they resurface unless we're prepared to have a permanent occupation of these countries. >> joining me now, congressman michael burgess, and, congressman, do you favor ground troops in iraq or in syria? >> i would not mind syrian ground troops leaving western europe and headed home to protect their homeland. i think that's a good idea. >> but american troops, do you -- are you -- we can't control them. we control american troops. are you in favor of american troops placed in iraq other syria? >> i would be in favor of us having a discussion about the strategy. i'd be in favor of the administration being a little more forthcoming in sharing a little bit more than certainly what has been shared with the member at my level to this point. look. i si

. and then the ancient islamic shrines in 2012. now it is isis. after they took control of mosul, they attacked mosul's library and the library in the university of mosul as well destroying books about everything other than islam in a bomb fire. now they're showing fighters using sledge hammers and drills to destroy very ancient artifacts. icons that are over 2,000 years old. richard engel is in turkey tonight and he filed this report. >> cultural genocide is added to isis growing list of crimes. they have killed, terrorized, and uprooted hundreds of thousands of people and it is destroying their heritage. this video includes music and slow motion sequences. then the men go to work ransacking their renowned museum and a archaeology sight. some crumbled with a mere push. others require more effort. the big ones are defaced with power drills including this winged bull, a god who protected the assyrian empire 2500 years ago. >> richard engel reporting tonight. he joins us live from istanbul, thank you for staying up late, it's nice to have you here. >> absolutely, that video is so infuria

and mosul second largest in the country. it's recommended it's contained. it's not contained. it's drawing inheerns inging from the market. i think this is wake-up call for the administration. we need to reassess the policy we've been following. >> that policy was all dependent on this new iraqi government. what does this say about the new iraqi leadership a year after mosul fell, almost a year -- in june it will be a year -- how the rebuilding of iraqi army looks to be less of a work in progress. they ran, fled left american equipment behind. >> well they certainly did in mosul last summer. the process of rebuilding the entire army to make it effective and representative of major cities in iraq is going to take time. they're not up to the task now. they've put shia militants back into the fight surrounding ramadi. that may help in the short term battlefield but not going to help in longer term of trying to win back allegiance in the sunni tribes to have shia militants fighting. it's not going to reassure them given the fact the former prime minister sunnis did not feel that govern

supply line between the isis capital of raqqah in syria and mosul. the largest isis-controlled city in iraq. john kerry speak about the u.s.-led coalition behind the offensive. >> this coalition has only been together for 14 months. people forget that. last summer it did not even exist. and today, as we sit here, allied forces are engaged in a major operation to liberate sinjar itself, cut off highway 47, which is daish's main artery into iraq. >> jim miklaszewski. this was u.s. supported with air strikes. no u.s. boots on the ground, correct? >> no u.s. boots on the ground technically. special operation forces in the sinjar mountains above sinjar assisting according to u.s. officials the peshmerga fighters in calling in air strikes. now, latest reports are that those 7500 pesh fighters with dozens of u.s. air strikes, have in fact had some progress that parts of that critical highway 47, that secretary kerry was talking about a minute ago, have been retaken, seized, by those peshmerga fighters. that can hole, that would cut off a critical supply line from isis headquarters up in ra

from the u.s. army's 3rd squadron 3rd armored cavalry division are on patrol in mosul, iraq. captain conrad brown is in command. >> mosul was mostly al qaeda insurgents after being pushed out of the sunni triangle in the pre-surge 2006/2007. they had taken root in mosul. and we were trying to take that city back. >> it's the squadron's sixth straight day of around-the-clock operations. the men are exhausted. >> we'd been up for about 36 hours at this point, and we're making our way back to our combat outpost. >> the battle-worn neighborhood is known as an insurgent hot spot. >> the terrain favored the enemy immeasurably. the bombed out buildings were difficult to see from the windows. very narrow alleys leading up to those roads and those particular intersections. >> but on this day, the area's main road, the major supply route for both u.s. and iraqi forces looks clear, and the squadron decides to take it. >> i got it before every attack, that pit in my stomach. i knew something was going to happen, and that's why i decided to take out the camera and start filming. just based purely

over iraq's second largest city, over mosul promising that the fight against isis is moving to mosul next, promising iraqi residents in that isis-occupied city, that their liberation is coming. that huge fight is coming. the u.s. military is bombing isis targets in iraq and syria on an ongoing basis. iran is actually on the ground against isis with iraqi troops in tikrit and probably in mosul too when that big fight in mosul kicks off. so the fight against isis is only going to get more high profile, and the strategic decisions are only going to get harder for the u.s. military, and we're in the eighth month of this incredibly complex fraught military campaign against isis already with this fragile coalition and this very strange coalition of frenemies. and congress you know what, has yet to weigh in. and the beltway common wisdom now is that they just won't ever weigh in on this. meanwhile, there's this other thing. this past week, britain, in this elaborate ceremony, commemorated the end of the uk's long involvement in the war in afghanistan. they commemorated the end of thei

confidence that the iraqis will be able to invade enter mosul. iraq's second largest city to take on those isis fighters that are pretty much dug in. there is word they are digging trenches there in mosul in anticipation of any kind of attack. this would be door-to-door ferocious hand-to-hand urban combat and everybody is wondering if the iraqi military is up to that and frankly nobody in this building that we've talked to has much confidence they can do that as early as april or may sent out in the briefing from a cent com official and anything to take back over mosul will have any time soon. >> thank you mike. >>> and we turn to the state department's representative farrah candy at the council or foreign relations. so let's pick up the question on the pending attempt to liberate mosul from isis. and when you look closely at the dynamics here this is a city that is a sunni city and this would be a u.s.-led heavily shia iraqi army trying to liberate it and maybe with help from iran that is also shiite. there will be resistance in the city to being liberated by people that are their e

is this enough to get back ramadi to begin to retaking mosul? >> well it's not sufficient to accomplish those, but i think these are necessary steps on the way. i think president obama was right to look at what's been accomplished in the roughly year since isis broke out in mosul and the administration decided it posed a serious threat. and to see that what had been accomplished wasn't sufficient and needed to be rethought. the idea that 400 people of that incremental step is going to remedy the basic flaws in the strategy i think is wrong. and if the president is just trimming around the edges with numbers, i think he'll ending up being disappointed and the country will too. i think senator king put his finger on exactly the right issue. president obama's strategy was to harness the sunni tribes the sunni population in the area around mosul in anbar province in the west and get them to lead the fight. he understood from the beginning that there's deep mistrust among sunnis toward the shiite-led government of iraq even under the new prime minister abadi. i was talking with su

on the eastern front along the sinjar mountains to try to break up that front from raqqa to mosul. the military significance, while it may look like pure revenge for what happened in paris could be coordinated effort to coincide with the ground operations that have been launched to break up isis strong holds. it is going to be in the coming days that we will have a better military assessment of whether or not the strikes will do anything to dislodge isis from raqqa. raqqa is the defacto capital of the islamic state in iraq and syria. it will be interesting to see what comes out of these operations in the coming hours. harry, back to you. >> thank you. >>> the manhunt for one suspect highly sought by police, this man, 26-year-old abdeslam salah has crossed the border from france in to belgium. we get more from our reporter. >> reporter: the manhunt for abdeslam salah has led detectives to belgium tonight. we just crossed the border from france, where there's ietenned and heavily armed security. it might be too late. french police confirming to the associated press that hours after

break up that front from raqqa to mosul. the military significance, while it may look like pure revenge for what happened in paris could be coordinated effort to coincide with the ground operations that have been launched to break up isis strong holds. it is going to be in the coming days that we will have a better military assessment of whether or not the strikes will do anything to dislodge isis from raqqa. raqqa is the defacto capital of the islamic state in iraq and syria. it will be interesting to see what comes out of these operations in the coming hours. harry, back to you. >> thank you. >>> the manhunt for one suspect highly sought by police, this man, 26-year-old abdeslam salah has crossed the border from france in to belgium. we get more from our reporter. >> reporter: the manhunt for abdeslam salah has led detectives to belgium tonight. we just crossed the border from france, where there's ietenned and heavily armed security. it might be too late. french police confirming to the associated press that hours after the paris attacks salah was stopped but allowed to go fr

city. the daily beast is reporting a planned spring offensive to retake mosul has been pushed back for several months at least. a pentagon spokesman friday kept away from confirming any kind of timetable. but just last week central command officials said a major attack on mosul could happen as early as april. mosul has been controlled by isis since the middle of 2014. secretary of state john kerry said today the u.s. is on the road to success in iraq. >> we are growing in the capacity on the ground martha. each time the iraqis have now gone forward in an offensive effort together with allies the coalition, we have routed isil. >> joining me now is retired lieutenant general daniel bulger, the author of "why we lost." and general, with a welcome to you, sir. do you agree with the secretary in a palpable way? are we on the road to success in iraq? >> alex i don't agree with secretary kerry, and as a vietnam veteran, he ought to know he's looking at a movie we've seen a couple times before. >> so why do you think we're seeing mixed signals there on a coalition offensive in mosul? >> i

services committee, challenged the secretary to talk about a strategy to take over mosul there in iraq and the isis capital city of raqqah inside syria. >> i think that we are building momentum against isil. >> how long do you think it will be before we retake mosul or raqqah? >> with respect to ramadi -- >> raqqah. >> oh, raqqah. raqqah there, you noted this yourself, mr. chairman, the syrian kurds to the north have done an excellent job of clearing their territory. >> we're not going into raqqah and you and i know that. >> senator mccain also warned that the u.s. and the world is running out of time after the attacks there in both paris and san bernardino, california. and he said if the u.s. does not commit, become more aggressive and commit more ground forces, not entire battalions, but at least more ground forces to the fight against isis in iraq and syria, then the u.s. is willing to accept the isis caliphate in that region, thomas. >> jim miklaszewski at the pentagon, thank you. joining us is brian levin, director of the study for hate and extremism in san bernardino. brian,

to a stronger position to strike mosul as there is word that the iraqi government are claiming they are very close to taking back the capital city of ramadi. >> well, you cannot confirm what iraqi government is saying, but while isis is losing place in ramadi, it might set the sights on the baghdad and start to come are from the west or the northern baghdad to squeeze the iraqi government there. >> and lathe, ith, if this happ it would deprive isis of the largest pop you arelation center and how much do they count on this ground game to advance the caliphate? >> well, it is imperative for rye isis to continue the caliphate for land. and the main premise of caliphate is to have control of people over a set land. without having the land, the philosophy of maintaining a caliphate, anded a vnsing it, whether in the eyes of the isis followers or others, it will be bleak. so they need to the maintain that territory. >> and what about the effect on isis' funding? >> they will lose a lot of funding, is simply because they are collecting a lot of taxes from the so-called citizens there. if t

of mosul. this is amid news they kidnapped 90 syrian christian this is week in syria. they targeted this region with two dozen air-strikes in the past two days alone. all of that air powner a -- power and a series of victories say isis is on the run. but richard engel said that is not the case. >> isis still controlled raqqa and mosul and isis just broke out into labe raw. it is taking over a new country. so if that is defeat of isis or isis on the road to defeat i would hate to think what isis success would look like. >> let's get to retired army officer douglas olive ant a director for iraq and senior fellow at the new american foundation. doug, it is great to have you. >> afternoon. >> good to have you today. >> pleasure. >> and you're recently back from iraq. >> i am. >> and you say it might not happen immediately but the outcome is increasingly clear. what gives you such confidence? >> the piece is coming together in iraq and the outlook in syria and other places are not so rosie. but with the country training forces and training more brigades with the united states assistance

officials are disclosing military fans for iraqi and american forces to retake the city of mosul as early as april. a senior official told reporters it could involve more air strikes and limited u.s. forces on the ground. iraq's second largest city has been under militant control since last summer. escape ees have shared troubling stories of a city under strict islamic world and limited food and murky water and religious min orts living in camps. what more do we know about these operations and plans for them? >> mosul, as you said iraq's second largest city did have 1.5 million people not clear how many there are now but this is both a strategic and symbolic target. the u.s. and iraqi forces would very much like toe take it back from isis. according to a central demand official in april or may as early as april or may there could be as many as 20 to 25,000 iraqi and kurdish forces that would attempt to retake the town from some 2,000 isis fighters. now the timetable gets a little squishy actually because some of knows iraqi forces still need to be trained up and this official said look if

of the larger ground reclamation by the iraqi forces. after ramadi i suspect will come mosul, and then maybe raqqa. maybe not in that order. mosul is the bigger concern, the city farther north. but it is also the one the americans have said, general dunford, the chairman, said would be a long way off. months, not weeks. >> what about fallujah? >> we're not hearing as much about. it is really ramadi, mosul and raqqa. ramadi and raqqa. ron was right, today the pentagon -- well the spokesman in baghdad congratulated forces but not going so far as the iraqis saying that the town is actually liberated. what the americans did do is they released a drone video showing iraqi forces raising the iraqi flag over that government center which i thought was interesting. i tweeted back, it would be nice to see drone footage of the actual fighting so we could see for ourselves just how much of the city was taken and who's involved. iran's right also saying the administration has been very tight-lipped about what americans are doing on the ground if they're advising. i mean americans in any stripe

from the prime minister saying we're coming to take mosul and the final blow to isis will be next year. >> thank you, chapman. courtn courtney, what are you hearing? >> u.s. military officials say ramadi remains in a state of combat, despite weeks and months of the iraqi security forces isolating the city and beginning to move into it several weeks ago. there was intense fighting during some of that. once they reached the government city center in the last 24 hours, they met very little resistance from isis. and military fishes here aoffic saying some of isis are melting back into the population and some are leaving. isis has been taking some of their large equipment and fighters out. so they met very little resistance. what this means really, this is a symbolic victory. in addition to being a tactical victory, it's symbolic. ramadi is one of the largest cities in the country. it sits on a critical highway that links iraq to syria and to jordan. but of course it's also a confidence boost, fact that the iraqis have taken much of it back now. because back in may, when isis took over